Crazy Issue 20 Theories

Note: this thread is for discussion of I20 theories and is nothing more than speculation, plain and simple. This thread should not be used to break the I20 NDA. We can safely discuss theories around I20, so long as they don't purportedly break the NDA.

In past closed betas, NDAs have been inferred through the closed beta user agreement, whereas one agrees to an electronic NDA when logging in. For Issue 20, according to the PAX CoH panel, Issue 20 beta supposedly started last week underneath a physical, signed NDA (IIRC, the last time there was a signed NDA was for the first and second waves of closed beta for I14 - Architect, signed by HeroCon attendees).

What does that mean for Issue 20?

They're probably testing more than just content. Even the GR closed beta didn't require a signed NDA; it just used the standard digital NDA that most closed betas use.

Which means...?

It means they're probably working on a system, a big system; probably bigger than the Alignment System (which didn't require a signed NDA), but maybe something as big as the Architect System (which did require a signed NDA).

Something else to consider are teh red names who have cut down on their amount of posting (presumably because they're working their butts off): Back Alley Brawler (Animations), Castle (Powers), Pohsyb (Coding), and SexyJay (Art). (Sure, Noble Savage has been posting, but he might have more time to post than Jay. He's also been helping to run an art asset contest that's related to his department.)

What sort of "big systems"?

Obviously, no one who can post about it can tell us because of the NDA. But there are a few items that have come to mind, thanks to a previous thread.

Here are some possibilities:

I just canceled my sub but if they added DR to pve, I would resub simply to see the nerdrage that would take place. those lulz are too good to pass up.

I suspect it would be the kind of big system competitors might be interested in hence the higher security.

I can't see Power Pool Customization requiring such tight security since ordinary Power Colorization and Weapon Customization didn't require such tight security.

Now then moving on to speculation


We know Posi has been working on End Game Content. Specifically Incarnates. Which we know Alpha Slot is coming in I19 and we also know more is being a dded into the system. A safe bet would be that the Devs want to keep several aspects of the Incarnate system underwraps until they are ready to announce a more defined version.

Also with Posi we know at one point he had drafted an Archenemy system. We were informed that his draft never met the approval of higher ups. Since then many things have changed. We also know that an upcoming competitor is supposed to have an Archenemy system. This would be the kind of thing to keep secret until it has amore finalized form so as to prevent a competitor from getting the upperhand with this kind of system.
A perfect example would be when we actaully did get Power Customization, which really came as a surprise to the community and the version we got was IMO superior to the competition of the time.

Also it could be something more extreme such as an engine overhaul. Several times we've been told there were things we couldn't have because of engine limitations. An engine change would solve those problems and be a huge update. I don't know of any games that have had an engine change after launch but it is theoretically possible.And is also the kind of thing that would be kept secret.


Udnerwater Zone? Possible but I don't think it would require tighter security.

now moving on to less happy specualtion. ED was implemented under an NDA. If another sweeping change on that scale were to occur, such as the DIminishing Returns mentioned, I'd understand the desire for an NDA. However I fully suspect if any such changes were occuring it would undergo several iterations before being complete as the Invention system did when it was in testing.

THis is all just specualtion on my part considering some facts that we know about what happened in the past and what might be necessary with competition approaching.

Power Pool Customization:
-I hope its coming soon, but no where near big enough an issue to need a signed NDA.

New Animations, Possible removal of rooting and travel power supression:
-Hell yes, removing those two things would revolutionize the game, but I don't see why it would require a signed NDA.

Diminishing Returns in PvE:
-I believe its this or something like it. Wasn't the massive furor from ED caused when someone in CoV beta leaked it? A signed NDA would help to stop something like this from leaking. DE applied to PvE has the potential to stir up just as much hate as ED did. I think if the devs deliver DE along with some massive buffs simultaneously it could work. The devs better tread lightly with something like this though.

My opinion?

City of Heroes 2.0
-Not a traditional MMO sequel in that a new box is released, the old game is pushed to the side and the playerbase is fragmented, City of Heroes 2.0 is an evolution and "re-launch" of City of Heroes. By utilizing City of Heroes' current staggering amount of content, revamping the game engine, introducing some new systems and upgrades, City of Heroes 2.0 could be re-launched to the public to compete with other more current MMOs

DR for PvE would cause a bigger amount of /ragequit than ED and GDN combined. I really hope they don't make that big of a mistake. Beside I think this idea is just wishful thinking on the 5% of the players that PvP to piss everyone else off.

I serious doubt there are any PvP "fixes" considering how much the PvP "community" has pretty much pissed off everyone that was ever in their corner. Good luck with that.
Also with the PvP changes in I13, that crowd pretty much asked for every change that was done.
Emp/Blaster teams owning everything... everyone else-Wah wah wah...
Trollers locking down melee... Melee-Wah Wah Wah...
Stalkers hitting and running at SS away ... Squishies-Wah wah wah.
Melee using inspirations to get out of hold... Controller-wah wah wah.
There were SO many complaint threads in the PvP forums, that usually turned into flame-fests that it was ridiculous.
PvP as a group burned their bridges. Time to get over it.

My guess it the full blown incarnate system, they don't want that leaked.
Either that or the "Coming Storm" FINALLY comes... (invasion from Praetoria anyone)

renaming of Masterminds to Mono Mums; change of all pet classes to "******* Children"; name t1s to Adolescents; t2: Pubescents; t3: ASBO - should justify the current pet AI for the future :P

I'm really hoping it's one of the first two, if they managed to pull off the second that would totally revolutionise animations in the game. Imagine it, walking while shooting energy or weapons; no more weird standing positions when you start animating in the air without fly.

It might even open up more opportunities for other powersets to come in.

If it was just Power Pool Customisation, not sure why you'd need a signed NDA for it. But it would be cool to get a less flashy version of Super Speed, less airy versions of Flight and Super-Jump and maybe even different effects for Teleportation. The more powersets they convert to customise, the less they have to do next time around. And doing only four power pools sounds far easier to do than say 8-12 (Don't remember the number of possibly customisable power pools)



People have been speculating that the big NDA might be to do with the Incarnate system, but why that needs a signed NDA might be down to what kind of content they're doing for the endgame they don't want other copying until it's out.

SPOILER ALERT! City of Heroes will ONCE AGAIN fail! Fail to disappoint, that is!

There would be winners and losers in a Diminishing Returns scheme, but the game would be much better off for it. Much more so than it was after ED, in my opinion.

The slightly more straightforward version is that the Incarnate System is much, much bigger than we've imagined. We know I20 will have the first major part of the Incarnates, but even those who've been in the GR Beta have no idea just how vast this thing is going to be when done. All we know is a bunch of names and the concept of slotting abilities into these named slots. We've heard a few new concepts from the Devs like Level Shifts, and there's bound to be a lot more new and unique abilities along with this. Plus whatever content to match it.

Consider this: I19 gets us the Alpha slot and one Incarnate TF, plus the Fitness change and other little things. This is a "sneak peak" at the full system. Other Issues have had less content than this. I think I20 will be massive. Most likely the biggest non-expansion Issue we've seen so far. And it's mostly going to be Incarnate stuff.

I hope you are correct.

If DR comes with it, I would need to see how it works before I judge it.

Really doubt this is alternate animations for power pool customization needing the signed NDA.

I would hate to see how 'separate upper and lower body animations' worked with powers like Eagle's Claw, Vengeful Slice, or Hail of Bullets.

Guess:

Major changes (don't forget, this is not coming out before next year) due to finally having the "Coming Storm" storyline really hit the game, as opposed to being rumors. Zone updates (GR tech) and disruptions, finally making some use of Ouroboros and the Menders as a faction (good or evil) and seeing how they interact with the Praetorians.

Incarnate-wise.... well, don't forget, one of the things floated when we had the Skills/Invention systems early on was a group that would be difficult enough that inventions would be *needed* to deal with them. (The Battalion.)

Might be what's getting revisited, given prior difficulty comments.

See my Guides and Tutorials

I REALLY hope it's DR coming to PvE, the hate that would be thrown about by the total community about how bad DR is if it were to be the current PvP version would be hilarious, finally now everyone would understand how PvP'ers felt.

But the real reason I'm hoping it's DR is that it's gonna be a lessened form of what it currently is in PvP because the outrage from PvE land would be too unbearable. I have no problem with players having a maximum or minimum amount of buffage or debuffage on them to balance things but it has to be a MUCH higher value allowed than what DR currently is.

Really all this talk of DR is great, for once EVERYONE is talking about the bad version of DR rather than just the PvP players and then getting lambasted for it and being called whiners. It's gonna be hard for the devs to ignore something that's shoved in their face.

Why would I want the added security of a for-print SIGNED NDA?

While, besides what's mentioned:

1) They're experimenting with new ideas that MIGHT be drastic and MIGHT NOT be used at all. It's chock full of these experiments, and many will likely not see the light of day. There were a few of these in GR's CB, but I could see Incarnates making more extreme measures. Normally, they'd try to do this entirely within the staff and friends & family, but incarnates has things that are group-based and you need to see how these scale with multiple mixes, so they want to add a few more players.

2) They're worried about how far out it is and what can be done in that timeframe. You have a new mechanic that can be as MMO-changing as sidekicking/mentoring was. You need to test it often and early, but you're also concerned... if I19 releases this fall, then I20 will fall after the winter-break lull, likely closer to spring. An aggressive competitor COULD see it, copy it, and beat you to market... or to the patent office... if they get in CB. Print NDA's mean real names & addresses, so competing devs can't hide behind aliases or family members.

3) Their legal team had a change of comfort levels. Terms in NCSoft's EULA were largely discarded by the judge handling the latest lawsuit (hawaii guy suing NCSoft for making a too-addictive game) so they may have decided that an NDA using same effective mechanic is too weak legally to rely on.

While speculations and ideas are fun to discuss, they can also be dangerous.

Even knowing that everything here is just pure speculations being pulled out of thin air, discussion about such game sweeping changes like DR in PvE and it's implications are enough to trigger a "Hmm, I wonder if I really want to leave my multiple subscriptions on an annual payment level; or should I maybe think about switching down to a month-by-month?"

Frankly, the ONLY thing that would ever drive me away from this game is a fundamental shift in focus that makes the 1-50 journey an obstacle to overcome (to get to the "real" game, like so many other end-game based MMOs) rather than the primary purpose of the game as it is now.

Things like "well, it'll be a major nerf to everything but you'll be able to use the Incarnate stuff to make up for it" worry me. I don't think the Devs are that blind to what a major shift (and major turn-off for a lot of players) that would be, but . . .

As for my speculations, I'm leaning more towards a major revamp of all the zones and/or some of the more painful game engine rewrite required changes.