Why were the new Merits made to decrease TF Recipe prices and increase Purple prices?

greatgarloo · 08-30-2010 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulmens

Your first morality gives you 50 reward merits (so you can buy a merit), all after that give you the hero merit directly. I don't know exactly how side switching works- I thought you had to pay money for the first h/v merit on the new side. I'm realizing I don't know if that's true.

Right, but it does not REQUIRE you to pay 20 million. You can choose to keep the merits and then just do more tip missions until you get another morality mish, which gives you a AM. The way it has been phrased (not just by you), it sounds like you HAVE to pay 20 mil and convert the 50 merits to a AM in order to unlock the AMs and thats not the case.

GavinRuneblade · 08-30-2010 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwellGuy

You don't get any merits at all when you switch to an alignment the first time.

And let me add, I don't mean the real first time either. If you go villain -> rogue (none), rogue -> hero (none), hero -> vigilante (none), vigilante -> villain (none). Rinse wash repeat.

It is only hero->hero, villain->villain, rogue->rogue and vigilante->vigilante that you get a reward of merits.

I think what Fulmens is asking is if you do hero-hero and pay your 20 million. then go vigilante and all the way villain. THEN do villain-villain, do you get a pure villain merit, or do you get 50 normal merits and have to pay your 20 million again?

If you go back to hero, does it remember you were a hero once before and that you already paid your 20 or do you have to pay AGAIN?

If he's not asking that, then I am. =)

"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

Exxar · 08-30-2010 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santorican

I've tried this, got three tip missions, then went back for an hour and didn't get any. Is that a bug?

SwellGuy covered it well. If you didn't have 3 tips already, the RNG hated you that day. But have in mind that you can only hold 3 tips at a time - if you don't do their mishes or drop them, you won't get any new ones.

Eldorado · 08-30-2010 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santorican

I've tried this, got three tip missions, then went back for an hour and didn't get any. Is that a bug?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exxar

SwellGuy covered it well. If you didn't have 3 tips already, the RNG hated you that day. But have in mind that you can only hold 3 tips at a time - if you don't do their mishes or drop them, you won't get any new ones.

Since I didn't see it in this thread, I'll add my experience:

I did five tip missions in a row, and got to 5/10 on my alignment bar. Done for the night, right? Won't get CREDIT for any more tip missions, but....

Out of curiosity, I ran around PI for far too long -- like 20 minutes -- defeating "grays" trying to get three MORE tip missions to have ready for the next day. After a while I got an invite to do some radio mission with a friend, and sort of forgot about the tip mission goal. FOUR 2/x8 radio missions and a bunch of defeated mobs later, I STILL had no tip missions lined up for the next day, so I strongly suspect that you can't get any more until your "Fame" meter expires.

"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner

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Panzerwaffen · 08-30-2010 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldorado

so I strongly suspect that you can't get any more until your "Fame" meter expires.

This is true, but slightly more complex. You cannot have more Tip missions than you have available Fame Point slots. So, if you have completed 3 Tips and have 2 open Fame Points, you won't be able to get more than 2 Tips.

_23X_ · 08-30-2010 07:16 PM

add to that I noticed last night I had 3 TIPS drop (4 open slots) only needed 1 to finsh off my 10, I got out of sync some how ... ran that on the way to the next mission a TIP dropped and I noted it was for the alignment mission so I ran that instead, I came out and my remaing 2 TIPS vanashed but I was able to get and run 3 more to fill my empty slots.

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SwellGuy · 08-31-2010 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade

I think what Fulmens is asking is if you do hero-hero and pay your 20 million. then go vigilante and all the way villain. THEN do villain-villain, do you get a pure villain merit, or do you get 50 normal merits and have to pay your 20 million again?

If you go back to hero, does it remember you were a hero once before and that you already paid your 20 or do you have to pay AGAIN?

If he's not asking that, then I am. =)

Well I would assume (but am far too lazy to test it) that since we lose all our hero stuff if we go to the Rogue Isles and all our villain stuff if we go to Paragon City that you start all over and just get the 50 merits and would have to pay the 20 million again. However if they have 2 secret badges that track those rewards were already given out then it would be an a-merit.

total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

McCharraigin · 08-31-2010 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caulderone

Wow. I didn't realize Grays could drop tips. Good tip!

I got my very first Tip from one of the Warriors who hang out next to the Talos WW. I had respected my level 50 Fire/Fire Scrap into the new Burn and was eager to try it out. I toasted the first clickable enemy I came across, and zowie, I had a Tip! Warrior must have been twenty eight levels below me

Lisa.

So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try

***Dennis DeYoung

GavinRuneblade · 08-31-2010 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwellGuy

Well I would assume (but am far too lazy to test it) that since we lose all our hero stuff if we go to the Rogue Isles and all our villain stuff if we go to Paragon City that you start all over and just get the 50 merits and would have to pay the 20 million again. However if they have 2 secret badges that track those rewards were already given out then it would be an a-merit.

Eventually the badgers will do this and let us know how it works.

"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

Soul_Stormer · 08-31-2010 11:25 AM

purples might have also increased in price because those farming and selling purples realize that their exclusivity is about to end, especially when concerning melee and ranged purples and are trying to cash in before players build up enough a-merits to buy them. at least with apocalypse, a couple of them have barely any supply lately and i'm looking forward to buying that apoc triple directly instead of for 400 mill inf.

frankly, i'd rather have a price drop in everything and am glad that a-merits will allow me to buy those lotg procs, cloud senses procs and every other over-priced IO that i wouldn't be able to afford. just takes a little patience.

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Nethergoat · 08-31-2010 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul_Stormer

purples might have also increased in price because those farming and selling purples realize that their exclusivity is about to end, especially when concerning melee and ranged purples and are trying to cash in before players build up enough a-merits to buy them. at least with apocalypse, a couple of them have barely any supply lately and i'm looking forward to buying that apoc triple directly instead of for 400 mill inf.

While I'm sure some folk will be spending a-merits on purples & pvp IOs the cost and time investment is so prohibitive I don't see it having a meaningful impact on the market price of any but the extreme outliers that sell at or over the inf cap.

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My City Was Gone

SwellGuy · 08-31-2010 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nethergoat

While I'm sure some folk will be spending a-merits on purples & pvp IOs the cost and time investment is so prohibitive I don't see it having a meaningful impact on the market price of any but the extreme outliers that sell at or over the inf cap.

And that won't be happening for at least another month. There'd be no point, except for Fulmens inf destruction project, to buy a-merits for the PvPs selling at 1 or 2 billion inf.

total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

Bionic_Flea · 08-31-2010 01:05 PM

I think it's still to early to tell.

Market merge (and the accompanying data wipe), new content, new currency, new characters, etc. all combined at once means it will be a few more weeks until the market is stabilized.

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Neuronia · 08-31-2010 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nethergoat

While I'm sure some folk will be spending a-merits on purples & pvp IOs the cost and time investment is so prohibitive I don't see it having a meaningful impact on the market price of any but the extreme outliers that sell at or over the inf cap.

I'd agree with this.

At the moment I'm alternating buying five rolls fro a Merit or using Merits to buy single recipes for my alts.

Saving up for purples...not going to happen. Saving up for PvP IOs...not going to happen. I can get these through marketing or sales easily enough (those Panaceas aren't cheap these days though, yikes!).

As to the OP's question, Synapse never did speak up on the reasoning but I imagine they wanted to dovetail new content tools with easier acquisiton of rewards. It does seem odd that what was 200 Merits and close to 200 million a few weeks ago is now 100 Merits and 100 million on the market, but there we go.

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Ryuuk · 08-31-2010 11:02 PM

100 merits+40m inf, not just 100 merits. Or 2-4 hours of playtime spread out over 4 days(depending on how fast you run Tip mishes).

AMs are interesting because it opens up a third path to wealth, so to speak. Previously, anyone so inclined could either farm, play the market, or both. Not everyone likes marketeering or is good at it(I'm not particularly good at it, so I don't like it). Not everyone likes farming or knows how to make a good farming character(I like it and I do know, luckily). Now, anyone can play their ST specialist or even support AT and do okay. A lot of players would be thrilled at the concept of making 100m for 3-4 hours of more or less normal play. Granted, sooner or later the Tip mishes become a grind too, but at least there are different maps and enemy groups.

For what it's worth, I have the opposite feeling of some, I'm not interested in spending AMs on anything other than pvp recipes. They are the one thing I cannot get pretty darn easily on my own, in a timely fashion.

HeavyTank · 08-31-2010 11:36 PM

to give normal folks the chance to get new stuff?

Minotaur · 09-01-2010 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen

This is true, but slightly more complex. You cannot have more Tip missions than you have available Fame Point slots. So, if you have completed 3 Tips and have 2 open Fame Points, you won't be able to get more than 2 Tips.

Exactly, so the sort of thing you do is to pair up with a buddy, do 2 of your tips, then 3 of his when you're not heading for a morality mission and he is. This will leave him cruising for a morality mission, and you with a load of tips stocked up for the following day as you head for your morality.

Pretty much invert the next day, rinse/repeat. In practice the way it tends to work on the second day is that since you have tips and he doesn't, you run one of yours and hope he gets a tip or two, then you run two of his then two of yours, which should be enough to get him some tips for the following day.

Or you can just go to DA and load up with tips fast.

It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba

OneFrigidWitch · 09-01-2010 06:29 AM

I dont care much what happens with the costs. AMs give me for the first chance an ability to buy IOs that I have not been able to buy since the launch of IOs, like regen tissue and such. I have never been able to get my hands on a LtoG recharge, ever, for instance.

-------
Hew in drag baby

dave_p · 09-01-2010 06:32 AM

Some observations, just having tried these for the first time, starting 2 nights ago, to see what you all were talking about:

Using my twinked out Fire/Rad (controller), I went to DA to get my first few tips, went to Talos to run the mishes, and actually took my time reading the text since they were new to me. 1st day, call it around 45min, last night, 30min to get & finish my morality mish. Sorta stealthed stuff, but killed plenty too when I didn't wanna retoggle/unsommon my pets, so I wasn't exactly being super efficient.

I'm surprised ppl are even bothering to go to DA for the tips. Last night, I just killed the 1st largish spawn in Talos I saw and got a tip. Killed a few more on my way to the mish and got a 2nd, got the 3rd inside the mish, etc. Of course, I'm playing the tip mish as I get them (I did delete one about rescuing debutantes from advice in this thread), so I guess if you wanted to be selective about missions, you might wanna go to DA, but I don't even think the travel time is worth it.

Skipping the text (I'm still reading any new mission text) and optimizing for time, I'm sure I can do it in well under an hour total (over 2 days). Someone who's fully optimized for this (meaning they know which tips are the fastest) will get this down to around 15~20min a night, I predict. I think even "casual" play will get a morality mish in 90min, assuming you have a stealth power. I'm gonna try a run starting tonight w/my Fire tank and see how long it takes, but I don't imagine it'll be much worse.

Of course, these are all fully IO'ed out toons running at -1/x1, but that'll likely be the case w/ all the speed runners. Bottom line, I can't see the time-to-reward ratio staying the same for very long. Load up while you can.

An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee

Exodus_V · 09-01-2010 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavyTank

to give normal folks the chance to get new stuff?

Yes, there are a few peeps that dont have time for TF's and who get very board playing the market...this gives them/me a chance to earn whatever in a timeframe i choose!

ThatGuyThere · 09-01-2010 08:37 AM

I suspect the devs knew they were massively simplifying the act of gathering non-PVP, non-purple IOs.

Alignment Merits are a genuine option as opposed to the market.

Speaking as a fairly-casual player, 250 Merits for the Recipe I wanted wasn't viable; I'm not able to make the one hour time commitment for Task Forces. But I can run Tip missions for fifteen minutes, for fun, alone or in groups, and every time I finish 10 (or 20), I get a specific recipe I like.

Note that I say this as someone who immensely enjoys the Market game (although I suck).

I think it's an immense change in availability - for the better.

NordBlast · 09-01-2010 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade

I think what Fulmens is asking is if you do hero-hero and pay your 20 million. then go vigilante and all the way villain. THEN do villain-villain, do you get a pure villain merit, or do you get 50 normal merits and have to pay your 20 million again?

If you go back to hero, does it remember you were a hero once before and that you already paid your 20 or do you have to pay AGAIN?

If he's not asking that, then I am. =)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwellGuy

Well I would assume (but am far too lazy to test it) that since we lose all our hero stuff if we go to the Rogue Isles and all our villain stuff if we go to Paragon City that you start all over and just get the 50 merits and would have to pay the 20 million again. However if they have 2 secret badges that track those rewards were already given out then it would be an a-merit.

1. It seems, there is a misconception among the posters of this thread that you have to convert 50 merits + 20M for A-merit.

You DON'T HAVE TO do it. You can keep your merits from 1st reinforcement, and get A-merits starting from 2nd reinforcement.

2. As far as whether you getting 50 merits again after full circle on the 1st reinforcement or not, I don't have answer for that. But I'd expect that 1st reinforcement always gives you 50 merits ( 30 for vigilante and rogue )

Chriffer · 09-15-2010 10:48 AM

Some interesting replies. I am torn between quoting some and saying "I told you so" or perhaps "You were wrong". Some likely responses people may post:

1) "Now is too soon to draw a conclusion. Wait longer".
I'll post another picture in 2-4 weeks.

2) "ZOMG that picture is photoshopped. I can tell from the pixels."
You got me.

3) "Just wait until people earn enough Hero/Villain merits to get purples".

Luck of the Gambler = 2 Alignment Merits
Luck of the Gambler = ~120M Inf
1 Alignment Merit = ~60M Inf -10% fee = 54M Inf

Purple Recipe = 20 Alignment Merits
Most Expensive Purple Recipe = ~400M Inf
1 Alignment Merit = 20M Inf

Thus, If you had 20 Alignment Merits you could get 1 Purple recipe OR
10 Luck of the Gamblers, sell them on the market for 110M Inf each for 1.1B Inf. That's 990M Inf after fees. Then you could buy 2 of the fancy expensive Purples you want and pocket the extra money.
Choice A: 1 Purple Recipe
Choice B: 2 Purple Recipes + Millions of Inf
Who would choose A?!

Your response: See Signature: "Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!"
My Response: Touche (An acknowledgement of a hit; An acknowledgement of the success, appropriateness or superiority of an argument)

Chriffer · 11-01-2010 09:40 PM

In response to many players who responded several months ago: No, it had nothing to do with people playing or not playing their 50s.

Prices now, from top to bottom of the pictures...
105
425
110
110

Putting the overall changes to...
Gravitational +95M since June
Hecatomb +275M since June
LotG -90 since June
Miracle -90 since June

Back to the original question. I think apathy. I don't think the devs care, at all, that Pool Cs are more efficient through A-Merits and the Purple price is only for those who truly hate the market or are incapable of math.

Misaligned · 11-01-2010 10:07 PM

I dunno - I'll go all the way back to the first page for this:

If I am player A and I have a budget of 800 million for my build.

It used to be that I would spend ~400 million on Pool A, B, and C's which left me 400 million for a purple.

I would bid my 400 and that would be the cap. However, due to the price drop, you'd see that those same Pool A, B, and C's now cost about 1/2 of what they used to - 200 mil. This now allows me to spend 600 million on the same purple I wanted prior to the merge.

On the other hand...

Who slots 1 purple?

Figuring it from a budget explanation, we'll assume that player a wants to slot just 5 of one purple set instead of just one purple. Old prices would put the build around:

5 x 300 mil avg = 1.5 bil

plus

350 mil for the rest for a total of about 1.8 bil.

With current prices seeming to sit around 500 mil, 5 purples alone will cost you 2.5 billion.

I don't see anyone having that much "extra" money due to prices coming down on Pool C's. Even an expensive 900 mil Pool C build (no purples) only gains 450 mil and that doesn't even cover the cost of a single additional purple - let alone 4 more.

I think in reality the thing that is driving this more than anything is not merits, or TFs, or farming, or anyone having money. I do believe it is in anticipation of the incarnate system.

It is expressly level 50 content.

People have heard that its going to be "hard"

Purples in this case seem to be the "bigger hammer" that most people use to deal with content that is harder than normal.

I believe we have a greater number of people gathering their money together to try and "pimp out" their favorite 50. Even if 10 people a week buy a purple that they normally wouldn't purchase in anticipation of incarnate, that's 10 more people than normal. Hence, why the price goes up and continues to go up.

I am willing to bet, a small bet, but a bet none-the-less, that about 2 months after I19 comes out, purples will start a steady decline in price until they are around the 200-300 million mark once more. However, I expect to see yet another spike on the prices just before and right after the release of I19.