Misaligned
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I am so very proud of everyone who contributed to this. I got up this morning and checked this thread to see how the festivities went last night.Originally Posted by Fulmens
Last I saw we were at 504 million Prestige (that's 252 billion inf.) At one point I realized that we started this SG on 9/23/10. So we did this in just under 3 months.
And we did something over 114 billion inf in the last 24 hours. . .
you guys amazed me, over and over.
#1.
Everyone who burnt even a single inf has my admiration!
Congratulations to everyone!
Thank you for letting me be a small part of it
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Quote:For the sake of argument, even if we cut my guestimates by 2/3rds, on average, there is about 100 billion inf added to the economy every week just through defeats.Originally Posted by Fulmens
Half a million an hour seems like a lot for the "Average joe". I guess if 1/3 of them are playing level 50's it's about right.
We've burned what, 100 billion? A bit more? So our effort over the past (nearly) 3 months has removed what is generated by the populace at large in a single week.
We have destroyed roughly 7-8% of what was generated (assuming a 2/3rds reduction of my estimates).
At this rate, we're slightly behind Mr. WW in removing inf. Although we are still an additional source.
I still support the 88s and hope that they reach their mark of #1
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Quote:The numbers I think you are talking about were inf/hour assuming all items vendored. A number of people participated and the "top end" for pure inf/hour assuming no market action was about 25mil/hour.Originally Posted by Tormentoso
I know I saw somewhere average inf earning rates from farmers and average gameplay. I'm sure things fluctuate based on the farmsploit-of-the-week, but a rough estimate could work.
Anyone has those numbers at hand? I'd be fun to see how many hours of farming have been burned.
Factoring in market interaction skews that number wildly depending on what you farm and how you deal with the rewards. If you AE farm for example, you will never get a purple. However, most farmers can effectively "ticket cap" a map in about 5-6 minutes. This caps them at 9,000 tickets (so they don't run over) in about 40 minutes total.
That person can then spend those tickets on gold rolls and get less rolls - or try silver and get a few more rolls with typically more "junk" in them, or they can spend the next 30-40 minutes doing bronze rolls most of which end up getting deleted or vendored.
On the outliers, we have those who spend their tickets on level 50 dmg recipes and just sell them to the vendor. I forget their ticket price, but it seemed like a fair trade off for those who didn't want to monkey with the market.
As for normal map farmers... well, here is a whole new mess to try and figure out. A farmer will always end up deleting salvage and / or recipes that they do not value. Also, as with the rest of this game, luck is a huge determiner of what your actual inf/hour can be on regular mission maps. Myself for example have gotten 3 purple drops in 6 months. 2 were garbage. The 3rd was from an ITF where we decided to hang out and kill stuff after mission completion just for funsies. I calculate that I ran my regular farms about 100 times or so. Tedious and boring - and never received anything of significant value.
If you want an "average" number of what a regular farmer can make per hour, I would guestimate it in the range of about 40-50 mil per hour. This assumes some market interaction via selling of drops. We'll forgo the money earned on the market for now and focus on inf from defeats (purely added money).
Now figure your average farmer "farms" about 7 hours a week, and that farmer adds roughly 175 mil to the economy through defeats alone.
100,000 players.
If 1% are "farmers" then we have about 1,000 active farmers.
Those farmers, assuming an average, are adding 175,000,000,000 (175 billion) to the economy every week just through defeats.
Now if you assume that the other 99% of the people are horribly bad at killing things, and play low level alts and stand around most of the time we can estimate their earning potential at say... 1% of a farmer.
So the "average Joe" is adding 1,750,000 all by their lonesome through defeats.
Factor that across the remaining 99,000 players and we find that the "average Joe" is adding about 173 billion in inf to the economy every week just through defeats.
So in total, we can estimate that about 348 billion inf is added to the economy each and every week just from people doing what they like to do.
- Cheers -
Quote:Originally Posted by FourSpeed
It raises another interesting question (to me) in the context of minimum cost
picture.
I think it's clear that once you hit L50, you're pretty much set if you put
some additional playtime into the toon at that level. That was also true
in the "Old Days" once you got over the L32-L37 "hump".
The question it raises for me (and any potential guide I'd write) is, can you
acquire sufficient funds, during the levelling process (ie. pre-L50) to move
up to decent Frankenslotting (ie. that 50M-200M range) without having
any marketting savvy or strategy?
Prior to A-Merits, or very good luck with drops, or external help, I'd be
inclined to say "probably not".
We looked at L50 earning potential several times, and UberGuy's toon adds
another anecdotal piece to support that, but I'm not sure anyone has put
much analysis into the results for mid-range characters using the simple
"play the game, sell your drops at the market" approach.
I'm getting curious what the L25-L35 hourly income potential looks like.
Regards,
4
I built 3 different toons (not frankenslotted) prior to my excursion into marketeering. The most expensive one was about 300 mil.
My most expensive build to date is a level locked 35 Dom from the contest I held. Hi AE earning potential from inf alone (to answer your question) is roughly 4 mil/ hour.
However...
There is only one thing required for anyone of this "dilemma" and its not knowledge - its patience. It (at least to me) becomes screamingly apparent who has played other "armor based" MMOs and who has mostly played CoH.
The jist I am getting from this thread is that people are bitchy because they can't be "done" with their build within a week of hitting 50. When applied to people who play other MMOs (WoW for a quick example) weeks to complete a toon is simply impossible. Months are more likely and depending on how quickly you can move through the latest content, it can literally take a year. Get unlucky with rolls and you can potentially have a character that is never "best in slot".
I used the 6 year old as an example to point out that your idea of trying to figure out how to educate the masses on how to get to these "basic levels" of inf so they can have "the best" available at each level is a fallacy. Fun can and should be had at every level. Inf is not required to have fun in this game unless having the best of the best all of the time is your thing. Then yes, you better figure out a way to support your habit.
You want to teach people something, teach them patience. If I can "magically" come up with 200 million 5 weeks into this game with 0 knowledge of this market system, and use that 200 million to fill all 96 slots in a way I found acceptable to me, then really there is no argument.
@4
In general we have usually come down on the same side of many arguments. Frankly, I'm a bit baffled why you seemed to lash out at me in both of my posts.
You can in fact slot nothing but what drops for you. I know a number of people who do this and they are perfectly content. Once again your fun =/= their fun.
Using a 6 year old to point just how easy this game really is was simply demonstrative. If I take his character at 50 and blow 5 bil on a build for him, do you think he will have more fun? Do you think he'll even notice?
@The rest of this forum - and this is a personal note.
I used to really enjoy the market forum as the people here were always polite and helpful. Even when people didn't agree, they still managed to have civilized conversations about issues and many people gleaned a lot of good information.
However, over the past 6 weeks or so, this forum has turned ugly. Instead of making compelling arguments, people resort to name calling. When someone supports someone else's idea, often the first person will tear the other person a new one for no apparent reason.
I played WoW for 5 years. During those 5 years the forums degraded into the following responses:
You're an idiot.
You really should just shoot yourself because you have no clue.
and the ever popular - You think differently than me, so I will create a wall of text insulting you, your family, your gender, your sexual preference, your pets, your favorite food, some random guy who I happened to see and I will explain to you in very specific terms that I am baffled by your ability to simply log on to this website, as your intelligence is lower than the mouse next to my keyboard.
I hated those forums and honestly dreaded going there asking for any answers unless it was an absolute last resort. Those forums continue to degrade to this very day.
This is where this forum is headed. I don't know if the Monitors have given up, or if they imply don't care any more. But when I can follow an entire 4 page thread that amounts to nothing more than "f' you, you're an idiot - no, f' you, you're an idiot" it really depresses me.
I've stayed out of this forum and intend to for the most part. I really have no desire to get into a pissing match with someone over a video game that ultimately doesn't mean anything.
Thank you all who have taught me something - both those I like, and those I dislike. I have still learned.
Good luck, and have fun.
- Misaligned -
Since I seem to generate some sort of negativity when I point out basic fundamentals like you can slot for free with drops and then am instructed on how we are trying to educate the newbs on how to play the market I will once again point out this scenario:
You are not everyone else. What is "good enough" for you is different from everyone else.
I have a 6 year old. Yes.. 6... years... old.
He has a level 29 or 30 blaster. He does all of the power picks. He picks all of the slots. He slots enhancements about once a week - when he remembers - and generally they are outdated when slotted (-3 level SO's for example).
He has a blast.
No where is it required for everyone in this game to have the ultimate build. No where in this game does an ultimate build have to cost billions of inf. If those are your goals, great. But seriously people, this game is so mind numbingly easy that a 6 year old can do it and have fun.
There is no challenge to this game. None. When some sort of challenge is implemented into this game, people complain that its "too hard" and eventually it gets a nerf.
You can play unslotted. You can play with horrible power picks and you can play by blindly picking slots. And you can do all of this and still have fun.
The fun part is for you to make up. Your fun does not dictate everyone else's fun. -
Quote:You can cut it to 0 by simply using drops.Originally Posted by StarGeek
You could cut the SO price in half or more by buying them on the market.
Novel ideal.
Incidentally, the salvage flipping guide in my sig generates roughly 10 mil a week with 5 minutes of your time each day.
So, do it for 2 weeks and you can fully SO or IO your toon all the way to 50. -
My fiance is letting her account expire today. Over the past 4 days I have decided to have a "fire sale" on everything I had on her account. I converted tickets - merits - everything!
Listed it all for 1 inf.
I made nearly 500 mil.
And people ***** that flippers drive prices up...
If the sheep would stop blindly following the last 5, we'd all be out of business :P -
Quote:Originally Posted by ricktu
I don't think I have ever seen so much effort to rationalise a morally ambiguous act. By their own admission marketers end up stinking rich. Which means people are paying more than they need to without you. That 600 million per day doesn' come out of thin air it comes from the virtual pockets of other players.
Okay so you add a little stability to the price ranges. This stability obviously comes at a great cost to the rest of us or else how could you make so much money doing it?
You guys have fun playing the market and this is a game so go for it. But for crying out loud stop trying to sell us on the fact you're the good guys. The cold hard facts are for every hundred million you make out of the markets is a hundred million the rest of us had to pay more than we really had to.
A good farmer can bring in 25-30 million per hour in straight inf. factor in drops, and that number can easily double, if not tripple. This allows a good farmer to generate 25 mil from defeats alone. Then, they make the other 25 mil off of people "paying more than they really had to" by selling their drops (at least the ones that don't get deleted over and over because they take up space).
On several servers, farmers off a power leveling service. I have seen prices that indicate about 5-10 million per run, per person. Fill up your team with 7 lowbies and your 25 million per hour + drops just became 60 million per hour + drops.
People who constantly run TFs can easily generate 100 merits a day. These merits can be converted directly to recipes. Defeats during TFs generate both inf and drops.
There are people who can also run A Merit missions for an A Merit every 2 days. To date, I have seen several claims that people invest approximately 30 minutes or so per A Merit. I cannot verify this, but I will accept it is fact, since I have seen people do crazy things. Running A merit missions generates lower amounts of drops at this level of speed. However, it does allow for the influx of at least 1 new "free" recipe every 2 days.
I have now provided 3 alternative methods for gaining inf in this game that go beyond regular playing. Which incidentally also generates inf and drops. None of these activities are considered "evil" and none of them attract the witch hunters that marketeers do.
If one chooses to, you may make a tidy sum by just doing the farming. 25 mil an hour (solo) in AE - never buying anything with your tickets is almost 200 mil a week if you only play for 1 hour a day. That's 800 mil a month.
Or, you can sit on your thumbs and complain about how everyone else is rich and you're poor.
I'd like to cover one more thing here, just for funsies:
We don't claim to be the good guys. We don't generally claim to be the ones saving everyone money at the market, but we are hardly the cartel people like you paint us to be.Quote:You guys have fun playing the market and this is a game so go for it. But for crying out loud stop trying to sell us on the fact you're the good guys. The cold hard facts are for every hundred million you make out of the markets is a hundred million the rest of us had to pay more than we really had to.
No one has ever forced you to go to the market and spend more inf than you were willing to for any item. Ever. This is a fact, and one that is seemingly lost on the ignorant. You place a bid, you get the item - at some point. If you need it now then be prepared to pay for it. Frankly, I have yet to see any IO that individually made a build so amazingly fantastic that it required me to slot it immediately.
I wrote a considerably long guide expressly dedicated to how to save inf at the market. It is (and has been) in my sig since I wrote it a couple of months ago. Try reading it. Then try being honest with yourself and see how many of those things you actually do when you approach the market.
Marketeers are only successful because they have the single skill that people who complain about the market lack. We have patience. Patience is ALL that is required to pay what you want to pay (within reason) for anything and everything in this game. If you lack the patience to pay the price you think is fair, then I am truly sorry, but the blame lays squarely on your shoulders, not mine.
And last, but not least - for those who feel that the IOs you need to make your build functional cost way too much due to marketeers driving up the prices:
I have a 6 year old. He plays several characters. One of which is a blaster (squishiest of the squishies). He loves his blaster. He plays at +0/x1. He dies on occasion, but it doesn't bother him.
His blaster is now level 29. He picks all of the powers. He picks all of the slots. And about every 12 levels he opens his full enhancement tray and slots anything that isn't red into whatever power it happens to go in. Currently 90% of his slots are empty. Currently 90% of what is slotted is red (expired). He has chosen powers like Jump Kick and Group flight.
Basically, the kid has no idea what he's doing and he can still manage to complete radio missions and safegaurds. Those are his 2 favorite missions.
If a 6 year old who picks powers based on names, and not performance, slots powers every once in a great while and never EVER vendors anything can have fun playing CoH, why is it that people claim they simply must spend billions on their "perfectly crafted" and IO'd toons? And why is that the fault of the people who play the market? -
Quote:Looks good.Originally Posted by seebs
Crazy thought:
Imagine that the market were modified as follows: The price of a transaction is the average (either arithmetic or geometric mean -- they'd have different effects) of the lowest listing and highest bid price.
So if I list for 1 inf, and you bid 100M, you pay 50M.
Advantage: Unless you match exactly, you always get a better deal than you were willing to accept.
What would go horribly wrong with this? What effects would it have? Discuss.
However, the only things you would effectively be doing is allowing the lazy (non creepers) to become even lazier. They can effectively bid whatever they want and have some assurance that if they bid too high, they're going to get a chunk of that money back.
This would also benefit marketeers greatly, which would cause god to kill a kitten or something.
**Benefit marketeer: You lay out a stack of bids for 9,000,000 on an item you craft. Every tom Dick and Harry that plops one on the market for 1 inf sells to you for 4,500,000. They "lost" half of what they get under the current system.
**Theoretical question: You bid 10 mil. I bid 6 mil. Item is listed for 1 inf - you purchased for 5 mil - which is less than my outstanding bid - then what?
Side note: This type of system may very well discourage people who have no knowledge of the market, nor desire to learn anything about it, from dropping everything off for 1 inf allowing supplies to drop.
So... gonna have to vote a personal No to this one. -
Quote:http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...80&postcount=1Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
There has been a near constant refrain of "Buyers set the prices" Okay. Log onto every alt you got, everybody. Bid 100 influence for every PvP I/O. Every buyer is bidding 100 for every PvP I/O. Somebody tell me when the 1st purchase happens and when all the prices are at 100. Thanks.
Good enough for you? -
What seems to be a driving issue with nearly all complaints about IO prices is that many people consider them to be prohibitive, or unfair.
To that end, what exactly is a "fair" price for IOs?
Each level 50 has 96 slots to fill at this time (I believe that is not slotting Rest or Brawl).
If we start with the notion that "fair" pricing would fall at 1 million each for every crafted IO, you would spend 96 million on every character.
Of that million, 490,400 would go straight to crafting cost. Assuming an average of 2 common salvage, 1 uncommon salvage, and 0.5 rare salvage (equal shares of recipes that require 1 rare or 0 rare) and assuming that those prices are only 2x what a vendor will pay for them you will lay out 8,000 for salvage. This gives you a "cost" of 498,400 (we'll round to 500k for simplicity sake).
At this point, the value of every non-pvp and non-purple recipe becomes 500k, or 1/2 of the total cost of the IO. Or, to be even more comparative, the recipe is costing you almost exactly what the crafting table is charging you to make it.
Looking at purples, you have 600k in crafting fees, 2 rares, and 3 commons. Applying the same "costing" as above and you now have a crafting cost of 626k. This values a purple recipe at a maximum of 374k. You've effectively decided that purple drops are worth "less" than regular drops. If I am on a run in this system and I intend to sell my recipes, purples are the first to get deleted because they are actually worth the "least".
So taking that from one extreme to another, what "would" be a fair price for purples?
**PvP IOs are a different beast entirely - so many people complain about the price of PvP IOs when they actually only mean a small handful. I have recipes that have been sitting on the market since the merge for 20 million that simply will not sell. Its not a matter of PvP IOs costing too much, its a matter of the 4-5 that people really want that are expensive.**
So what would be a "fair" price for purples? Being "ultra rare" and totally disregarding the Dev's value of 10-20x what a regular IO is worth (based on drop rates and A-Merit purchasing, its actually quite close to that, but we'll move on). Would 500 mil each be fair? Most say no. Would 200 mil be fair? Some would say yes, still many would say no. Would 100 mil be fair? I would say that 100 million would value them at approximately the same level as most of the desirable Pool C drops - below some even. At that point, I think a lot of people would say 100 million is a fair price for purples.
Setting aside the obvious benefits of purple sets (no exemplar restrictions, better proc rates and damage per proc, considerably better set bonuses in regards to ACC, and Recharge across nearly every set), we'll pretend that all purples henceforth shall be priced no more than 100 million each.
Ah... but here the sticky wicket that no one talks about. You don't slot 1 purple. You slot 5 per set sometimes 6. When you can, for most builds, you would want to slot 5 sets of 5. This is 25 of your 96 enhancements.
Those 25 shiny new purples that you slotted for the "fair" price of 100 million each have just set you back 2.5 billion. And you haven't touched the rest of your build yet.
How many people who complain about purple prices actually spend an average of 3 billion on every single character they get to 50? More realistically, I would say that *most* people in this game who play on a regular basis and don't marketeer or farm all day long will generally spend 200-500 million tops on their builds. You may go check the AT forums to back that up. Often you see "uber expensive" builds floating around, but for the most part, people will then ask for a build that's "cheap" and set a price cap of 500 mil.
Re: The PvP 3% def IO
Personally, I'm baffled. Yes you get 3% def at any level. Yes you get 10% chance for teleport resistance. Yes, you can slot it in addition to a steadfast 3% def. And yes, it can potentially save you up to 4 slots in a very tight build. Personally, I just don't see it being worth it - not even at 100 mil. But then again, I never had a problem selling the 2 I have gotten for over the 2 billion mark.
Re: Other interesting items on the market that never get mentioned. Hami-o's for example. One of the extremely small subsets within this game that require you to actually kill a specific "boss" to get the drop. They range anywhere from 100 mil to 500 mil (similar to purple prices) but I don't recall ever seeing a complaining thread about the price of these. Why is that? -
Quote:Well, at this point in time the only people who cannot experience purple sets are those who do not have a level 50 character. There is no other restriction beyond that. $15 a month ensures that you can play, but it does not buy you a 50Originally Posted by B1u3Jay
Do you think it is a consideration along these lines:
It is content in the game, and I pay the same $15/month everyone else does -- why can't I experience purple IO sets?
(When I say *I*, above, I am not referencing me, specifically.)
To compare it to a Porsche or something from RL is apt. If you prioritize getting that Porsche, you can save your money and purchase one.
Or, you can take the GTA approach that this game has and go beat some guys over the head until they give you the Porsche. If its not the color you wanted (wrong set) then you sell that Porsche and go buy the Porsche you desire. If there isn't enough money left after you sell yours, then go beat some poor guy over the head until you get the color you did want.
If you are a pacifist and prefer to not bonk people on the head, the government has offered a new program available to all "low income" super heroes and super villains. You use some of their stimulus money and after a couple of months at your temporary job, you can buy the exact color Porsche that you want.
The disparity that so many people claim runs rampant in this game is just silly. To prove that point, I PL'd a character from 1 to 50 and never spent a dime on him. I did this in AE - rolling gold on his tickets and handing the recipes off. His income after all was said and done, just from kills, no drops, was over 50 mil.
Had I solo'd him and stopped to SO him out every 3 levels, I am sure I could have spent all of that on the way to 50. So essentially, he would have been broke. But then, once 50... what does he have to spend inf on anyways besides IOs? Costume changes? Temp jet packs?
Really, with the complete lack of any inf sinks in this game, there is no excuse for someone to say "I will never be able to afford this".
The disparity that people feel is ever increasing between the "haves" and the "have nots" is completely a "grass is greener" thing. You can realistically completely IO out any character now using Pool Cs (all of them) for under 200 mil. 5 LotG procs?! Sure thing! Here you go! And their FREE! Want a miracle proc and a numina's proc too? Sure thing! Those are free too!
Want 5 complete sets of purples? Sure thing! They're free... you'll just need to wait quite a bit longer.
Ooooo - side note:
Pretend Purples all cost 200 mil (low end when I started). 5 complete sets of 5 (what most people slot) would have set you back 5 billion. I don't think the prices of Pool C's dropping and Purples rising has impacted very many people' ability to completely "purple" any character. If you could scrape up 5 billion for a toon (plus the rest) you can likely scrape together the 10 billion it will run you now.
Not sure what you meant here. SorryQuote:Along those same lines, we get into power proliferation, and villain archetypes ported hero-side/hero archetypes ported villain-side.
Hopefully this doesn't come across as trolling -- I am just trying to add to the discussion.
Thanks.
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I'm in ur niches. (no really, I am - I bounce so much I know that I am always in someone else's niche... cept for one.. that's a secret... shhh)
I'm in ur niches.
Cuttin myself.
With a razor I stole from a casual player.
I'm in ur niches driving prices down! Until I forget what I was doing... then I drive them through the roof.
I'm also in ur base... sittin on ur pretend wall. -
Quote:Please go back and read the "plain english" write up that was done on the incarnate system. If launched as that guide described, you'll be sorely disappointed that its not really close to what you seem to think it is. While yes, in theory you could rebuild your powers around your incarnate slot, you'd be hard pressed to do so in most cases without sacrificing something else that your incarnate isn't picking up.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
From the way I read the plans in beta the incarnates were both a global slot, and and a bypass to ED. So if you were slotting purple sets for the recharge bonus, slotting the incarnate bonus, would give you the equivalent of a large global recharge bonus for everything at the ED cap, and eveything else that wasn't at ED cap it would push towards the cap or slightly beyond if you were close enough.
That would be the first set.
I agree with you on exemping but just how many people go to the trouble to make exemplar friendly builds ?
Re: Exemplar friendly builds -
Actually, a lot of people do. And I mean a LOT. There's a reason that the demand for level 25-33 IOs stays so steady - and it not new players coming up through those ranks.
Essentially, if you never plan to exempt below 33, you need not bother with a build that focuses on maximizing % useage. However, if you exemplar at all, it a great idea to look into creating a secondary build that will allow you to remain functional. For example - i you have an /SR toon that only has soft capped defense at level 45+, you're pretty much SoL if you do anything but a top level TF. -
Quote:3 Slots with Hami: 94.93% to allOriginally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata
Wouldn't you max out with (say for leaping):
Springfoot Leap/End
Winter's Gift Speed/End
BotZ Speed/End
for a heck of a lot less? I'm just confused why anyone would spend so much when you can very easily replicate it for less than 1/10th the price.
3 Slots Franken'd: 78.55% to all
However, the franken'd puts you at/over the movement cap - so... maybe slotting 2 in 3 powers? instead of 3 in 2 powers?
PvP build I assume Terror? -
Quote:First, I will highly disagree that making money is idiot proof. There are a number of steps in many guides that skip the essential key of identifying a good niche. Aside from that, given enough time and energy, any idiot (myself included) can lose a pile of inf. I've lost probably close to a billion on different "ventures" that I attempted over just the few short months I have been marketeering.Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Depends on what you refer to as "marketeering".
Honestly, all you need to "start" are the 4 drops you get from the tutorial. From there, building any amount of inf is relatively idiot-proof.
Second, I will cite an earlier post by myself which covers the "low end" money making and the purpose of this thread:
A side note on relevance of this "experiment" or w/e you want to call it - I have been asked directly 4 times over the past 2 weeks via private message how much you "need" to start marketeering. Most people assume you need 200mil or more to start the crafting stuff. 99% of them understand that you need like 100 inf to start flipping - so that's not the issue.Quote:Originally Posted by Misaligned
Wow. This thread has taken so many turns since I posted the original post. It hardly seems like the same topic.
Intention of thread: To show that a person could indeed become a crafter with nothing more than 1 mil and a bit of knowledge.
Not intended: Give many examples of how to make low end money. This is good information, but we have a ton of resources to that effect now, and I thought I would just poke this out there for new people who are wondering how much they really need to get started with the crafting side of marketeering.
Also, nearly every person who comes to this forum asking about how marketeering works invariably asks how much they "need" to get started. Most are afraid of losing the small amount they have managed to gather. Fear is a powerful emotion and one that can really hold you back in ventures like marketeering.
By showing that a person can realistically start with just 1 million, I have given people both information, and hope. I mean really, who can't afford to part with 1 million inf on any given day? If things go horribly wrong, you're out a mil and you move on. You're definitely not out your entire nest egg.
With that being the intent of this thread, I will once again state that there are loads of great resources on these forums about how to make inf from nothing. My sig covers one way if you want an example. That is a proven method that works - and is extremely user friendly. A 9 year old was able to follow it and clears about 25 mil a week. It requires no thought on his part - he just sits back and collects money - on a level 11 stalker that he hates
Enjoy! And good luck! -
Quote:Yeah... I didn't read most the previous 12 pages (I found a lot of repetitiveness in what I did read), but I am deeply curious. How exactly did you manage to find 20 enhancements that you can slot into a single build that all cost 2 billion or more?Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Yeah. Pretty sure I never used the word evil. in fact, other than my unedited sarcasm, I have tried to be pretty respectful here. Mainly because I believe everyone should be treated with respect. That is because I respect myself. It is my opinion that those who insult, put down, and generally try to make someone else feel less than are themselves suffering from inferiority complexes.
Now, as far as market manipulation goes, I do in fact believe people are manipulating "farming" the market and driving up prices.
Beyond that, how did you come to the conclusion that only through these enhancements would you be able to play the way you want to play?
Beyond THAT, you state clearly that most of your toons are SO'd out. How do you explain the sudden jump from SO's to "absolutely most expensive build I can find"? I view this as going from a big wheel to a Rolls Royce in terms of an upgrade.
I do have one last question for you if you'd be so kind as to answer it, why do you feel that the prices on these specific enhancements are so high? I noticed in your other thread that you feel it is someone buying all of the stock and then selling it. Do you still feel that way?
These are serious questions and if they were asked and answered before, I apologize. If you have time to answer them, I would appreciate it.
Thanks! -
Quote:You don't live by any clock towers, do you?Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Man you accused everyone in this thread that disagreed with you, of invalidating your entire life, and deciding you were a rotten person ? You did it in a thread that was so bad it had to be nuked ?
Now you go calling other people insane ?
WOW !!!
Are you trying to pick a fight Camper ? Or are you just trying to paint me as a conspiracy nut just to slander arguments you don't like ?
I say when people can do something they invariably do. You tell me where there's a conspiracy in that statement, if you can. -
When I did my grind, I did the following:
I crafted what had outstanding bids and that was it. If I was on a badge that had no outstanding bids, I would make whatever was cheapest - list em (10) for the few minutes it took me to bid up the next set of IOs to make, then I pulled them and deleted them. Or, if I was thinking, I would make those last for the day and leave them over night. Once again, the next day, they got yanked and deleted.
I ended up paying "buy it really soon" prices for all of my salvage. I bought almost all of my recipes from the table, and I managed to finish all of the "required" crafting (make X of X) at a net loss of 10 million after 3 days.
By making things that had outstanding bids, I knew those were IOs I could sell immediately and not clog up my slots. Toss em up for 1 inf and get what you can.
Esentially I viewed it as this: I'm about to make roughly 450 IOs over the next few days. I have 15 slots (didn't do it on a 50 - duh!) - Do I really expect to turn over all of these slots 30 times? I answered myself with a resounding "NO!".
So I took a hit on the first part. Meh, no biggie. As for the rest of the crafting (getting to 1k) I tend to do that in spurts. I pick something that has a LOT of bids outstanding. I bid 1 inf on the salvage (willing to wait a cpl of days) and I buy enough to make 30-50 of em. Then a crafting I will go, listing them all for 1 inf and collecting way more than the cost of the crafting for 75% of them, and clearing up some of those lowball bids on the rest.
I haven't kept track 100%, but I know that all this guy has really done since I started this was 2 missions and he's about 20 mill over what he started at. *shrug* Either I'm breaking even, or I'm making a small profit. Either way, Its not going to cost me hundreds of millions to get this badge
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So... a bit over a month later.
Same principals being used.
Same niches being worked.
Same practices in place (general laziness)*.
I hit over a billion on this toon today.
I'd say that's enough proof that you can start crafting with as little as 1 mil.
I do believe one day I will get ambitious enough to actually make the prestige needed to buy an IO table and crafting table for my base. Right now its 2 sad empty rooms lol.
If I can get ambitious enough to do that, I may create a bit of an assembly line type deal with it. But prolly not. lol
*General laziness: I bid the exact same thing for every recipe I purchase. I list every single IO for the exact same price. I bid either 5,555 or 55,555 on my salvage. If I don't get the salvage by the end of my market session (usually less than 5 minutes) I pick it up the next day. I have exactly 24 niches I work. Bet you can't guess how I arrived at that number, can you? (4 sets of 6)
Edit: Realized that I had the start date wrong - changed "less than a month" to "bit more than a month" -
Re: Set bonuses
(Liked the guide btw - Only suggestion is changing "card" to enhancement so everyone is on the same page *shrug*)
Set bonuses allow someone to severely focus their build for a single stat. Usually this stat is Def or Recharge. Because of this, the focused builds tend to gimp on the actual slotting of the power in itself. This can be both good and bad - mainly depending on the power.
Personally, I usually do a mix of both. I like my set bonuses, but I tend to not go nuts over them. Whenever I can, I frankenslot my key powers (even if that means 5 of a set and 1 other IO to bring all of the stats to where I want them) and use powers that I "don't care about" or that aren't overly impacted by the stats anyway for muling set bonuses.
T1 blasts are a good example: Generally a very short recharge (3-5 seconds). Low-ish End cost and low-ish damage. If you 6 slot it and frankenslot it for max dmg, acc, end, and rech, you'll get a power that you can spam every 2 seconds instead of every 2.5 seconds, and you'll spend 2.5 end instead of 2.7 doing 67 damage instead of 63.
Those types of powers benefit very little from frankenslotting, unless of course you are trying to conserve slots then they can be frankenslotted quite nicely in 3-4 slots (usually)
Re: Bigger font
Heh - you don't need a bigger font. People just aren't used to reading Times New Roman anymore. Change it to Arial or Tahoma and people won't complain
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Congrats!
Is this your only 2 bil? Or are you rich across several toons?
If you're rich across several toons, there's MANY things you can do with that money.
If this is your only 2 bil, I suggest the following:
Send off 200 mil to at least 4 other characters. Try to identify specific niches for them (if you do the marketeering thing - which I am assuming you do as you are joining the club ) and work those niches - find a nice niche that works for your play style and relax!
Once you've established a convenient way for you to make money at will, you'll find the game a LOT more enjoyable. Or at least, I did. No more worries about "well... are they good at 50 for less than 100 mil?" or "ok... but if I can't afford all of those procs, will it be worth leveling it?" or my personal favorite: I don't feel like leveling this toon to 25 or so - nor do I feel like PLing myself (if you have 2 accts) so I will pay someone else to do it for me! Muwahahahaha! C'mere farmer Joe! Have 50 mil and let's get this guy to 25!
Basically, once you've learned how easy it really is to make money in this game, you can do pretty much whatever you want.
The latest trend is buying out all of a common salvage just to piss people off. Not something I have ever done, but seeing the reaction it gets, I may start soon
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Quote:Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Take your own advice. You went completely nuts because people told you, your experimental technique was poor. Pardon me if I react badly to people telling me I hate things I don't, I am kowtowing to a party line, or I have some desire to persecute people I have never met.
Read your thread. You have people saying that flippers can and do raise prices, and the other side, inasmuch as there are well defined sides saying, "OH Yeah do an experiment where you raise prices"
Now we have a new thread where an attempt is being made to redefine flipping as something completely innocuous. Its already failed. I wonder how many people have spotted the error.
Wow. Just... wow.
Good luck with your life. At this point I am writing you off as a severely lost cause. You just have no idea how insane you actually sound, do you?
See ya. -
Quote:First, stop being an *******. Really, this is quite immature and frankly, you lose more credibility just being a dick than for the blatant statements you make.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
LOL you can't even be consistent in a single post.
You start this thread with propaganda masquerading as an experiment
Or maybe you didn't try and pass this off as significant
Now you are trying to say your position was that "Flippers don't always have a negative effect".
OK !!!
Sure you did.
And anyone who actually reads this thread will see that is exactly what you have said, and it wasn't just you lashing out at people who said you did a sloppy job. You attacking people for saying things were possible, that you said weren't. You spinning like a top when evidence that completely destroyed your position was presented, and finally you trying to extract yourself from the quagmire you created.
Just so you understand, seeing as you have managed to miss it in the hundreds of posts I have made on the subject
Second... if:
Quote:My positions have always been
1. Prices can and are manipulated anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or a liar.
2. You can buy high and sell even higher and make a profit.
3. People that don't like playing the market game should have comparable alternatives. Seeing as they now do 3 is moot.
Then wtf is your problem? Are you dense? Incapable of reading? Illeterate or just a jerk? Cause hey - no one is saying those aren't true.
But hey, you keep at it.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Another_Fan
... Just look at common salvage just after the market merge, the manipulated items like luck charms and alchemical silvers were both more available and cheaper. You didn't see 100k ranges between the patient buy price and the buy it now price in alchemical silver....
And since you are so versed in what things cost prior to the merge vs what they cost now... why don't you bother to point out that most things actually ended up at the higher of the 2 prices (blue side vs red side)?
Common salvage was insanely expensive blue side vs red side pre-merge. After merge? Its still on or very near blue side pricing. Rare salvage was dirt cheap compared to red side - now? Its up or near the red side pricing pre-merge?
Why don't you come up with an argument that actually holds weight for once AF? Why don't you look in the forums for your own and see the many... MANY experiments that can be found about flipping and see how many you can find that prove that prices can be raised by flipping alone.
Here's another thought - I know a guy who can dunk a basketball - therefore, I will apply your logic and say "Hey, everyone who ever touches a basketball can dunk."
No one ever claimed that you can't f with something and have an effect. If you believe otherwise, you're an idiot. However, since you seem to once again to be on the slow end of the pole here I'll take the time to explain it to you once more in small, easy to read words, that you will quote, insult, then try to dispute:
Flippers in general do not raise prices.
Flippers in general stabilize prices.
Flippers in general have a positive effect on supply.
Flippers in general do not waste their time and effort doing things like hard-core manipulating to attempt to inflate prices to a point that they will not bear.
Flippers in general will make acceptable profits flipping things like salvage if and only if they do not invest a huge amount of time in it.
Your position - feel free to explain your actual position (if you have one) is as follows from what I read:
All flippers raise prices
All flippers cause wild swings in prices - always driving them up to insane amounts
All flippers buy up all of the salvage and destroy it, thereby making a huge profit.
All flipper perpetually manipulate the market to their own ends, destroying supply and driving prices to many, many times what the market will bear.
All flippers do this maliciously and make huge profits doing so.
I find it amazing that one side of this argument has to "qualify" its words just to get the other side to even look at them, while the other side speaks in absolutes.