What is "Frankenslotting?"
I agree that Frankenslotting is very useful and certainly easier to get max bonuses out but I think you dismiss set bonuses too cavailerly. Through the use of set bonuses I got my DP/Mental with 5 points of Ranged Cap and 10 points of Smashing/Lethal.
Yes, it is a very specific build but it lets me leap into combat for Hail of Bullets and leap back out alive. At range I am very difficult to hit and with a purple popped I can even outlast Defense Debuffers (unless there are a ton of them).
Great guide, but set bonuses have a place too if you are looking to patch holes in your AT/Power builds.
Good guide, needs a bigger font.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
No, your right, I wasn't exactly trying to dismiss bonuses but I think most peeps think they are the highlight while in my opinion they aren't. Can they help, yes they can. An extreme example is a scrapper I just talked to today that put an endurance set in Stamina. That set includes Rch, End, and ACC which the power doesn't even take. So they got 101.47% End Mod while the 73.78% ACC / 26.50% End / 73.78% Rch wont do anything to the power. But they did it to get the 13.6% HP / .03 End / 10% regen / 2.5% Dmg buff / 5% Rch. Do these out weigh the cost of the 215.70% lost in wasted and unused slotting in addition to the four slots you didn't have to use to get acceptable value in addition to some other areas that suffered from the wasted slots you used. No way. And its often like this. I rarely see bonuses matter that much. The shocking part is how I hear peeps argue with me over the 1,2,3,5, or 7 or 10% bonus they are clinging onto so dearly. I know they all are different, some are global, and do different things but come on. A good example for my controller is Mez, Hold, and immobilization. Is 3% Mez resist or the effects of the Mez really going to make a difference? No it wont. But often times in Frankenslotting you end up putting 2 to 3 sets in one power and find the same bonus repeated as the first bonus in alike sets. At one point that mez bonus was up to 45%. Would that make a difference, sure, at least a noticible difference anyhow. I would much rather have 45% from repeated bonuses rather than 3% bonuses scattered across 20 fields.
Re: Set bonuses
(Liked the guide btw - Only suggestion is changing "card" to enhancement so everyone is on the same page *shrug*)
Set bonuses allow someone to severely focus their build for a single stat. Usually this stat is Def or Recharge. Because of this, the focused builds tend to gimp on the actual slotting of the power in itself. This can be both good and bad - mainly depending on the power.
Personally, I usually do a mix of both. I like my set bonuses, but I tend to not go nuts over them. Whenever I can, I frankenslot my key powers (even if that means 5 of a set and 1 other IO to bring all of the stats to where I want them) and use powers that I "don't care about" or that aren't overly impacted by the stats anyway for muling set bonuses.
T1 blasts are a good example: Generally a very short recharge (3-5 seconds). Low-ish End cost and low-ish damage. If you 6 slot it and frankenslot it for max dmg, acc, end, and rech, you'll get a power that you can spam every 2 seconds instead of every 2.5 seconds, and you'll spend 2.5 end instead of 2.7 doing 67 damage instead of 63.
Those types of powers benefit very little from frankenslotting, unless of course you are trying to conserve slots then they can be frankenslotted quite nicely in 3-4 slots (usually)
Re: Bigger font
Heh - you don't need a bigger font. People just aren't used to reading Times New Roman anymore. Change it to Arial or Tahoma and people won't complain
No, your right, I wasn't exactly trying to dismiss bonuses but I think most peeps think they are the highlight while in my opinion they aren't. Can they help, yes they can. An extreme example is a scrapper I just talked to today that put an endurance set in Stamina. That set includes Rch, End, and ACC which the power doesn't even take. So they got 101.47% End Mod while the 73.78% ACC / 26.50% End / 73.78% Rch wont do anything to the power. But they did it to get the 13.6% HP / .03 End / 10% regen / 2.5% Dmg buff / 5% Rch. Do these out weigh the cost of the 215.70% lost in wasted and unused slotting in addition to the four slots you didn't have to use to get acceptable value in addition to some other areas that suffered from the wasted slots you used. No way. And its often like this. I rarely see bonuses matter that much. The shocking part is how I hear peeps argue with me over the 1,2,3,5, or 7 or 10% bonus they are clinging onto so dearly. I know they all are different, some are global, and do different things but come on. A good example for my controller is Mez, Hold, and immobilization. Is 3% Mez resist or the effects of the Mez really going to make a difference? No it wont. But often times in Frankenslotting you end up putting 2 to 3 sets in one power and find the same bonus repeated as the first bonus in alike sets. At one point that mez bonus was up to 45%. Would that make a difference, sure, at least a noticible difference anyhow. I would much rather have 45% from repeated bonuses rather than 3% bonuses scattered across 20 fields.
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Absolutely. Those endurance sets, when fully slotted, are really meant for endurance draining powers. I actually start slotting my Immob and stuns really early with tri aspects when I can. So at level 15 I am getting SO like bonuses out of two slots for stun, accuracy, and DO bonuses for end and recharge.
I think that in general you are right and people focus too much on set bonuses or just don't think it through. I have a friend who has been playing for 4 years and he six slots everything. So yeah, he's got Toxic defense that seldom ever gets used.
I will just say MIDS is your friend. Planning a build lets you spend less and get as much bang for your slotting as possible. Bluntly, just about everyone I know who slots well and effectively uses MIDS. Almost no one who does use it slots horribly. (arguements about power choices and such aside).
An extreme example is a scrapper I just talked to today that put an endurance set in Stamina. That set includes Rch, End, and ACC which the power doesn't even take. So they got 101.47% End Mod while the 73.78% ACC / 26.50% End / 73.78% Rch wont do anything to the power. But they did it to get the 13.6% HP / .03 End / 10% regen / 2.5% Dmg buff / 5% Rch. Do these out weigh the cost of the 215.70% lost in wasted and unused slotting in addition to the four slots you didn't have to use to get acceptable value in addition to some other areas that suffered from the wasted slots you used.
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There are absolutely times that people slot for set bonuses when they shouldn't, though. Nothing will make me run screaming from a team faster than a tank (or brute...) who's obviously six-slotted his Footstomp with Kinetic Crash to get the 7.5% recharge bonus, and ends up scattering mobs all over the place every 10 seconds.
Beyond that, some (what I hope is) constructive feedback.
There are also some things in your guide that you should consider revisiting. For example, Crushing Impact doesn't have a proc. The piece you left out when running your numbers for 5 pieces of CI was the damage/endurance/recharge triple, which makes a pretty big difference in the calculations and is one of the pieces someone frankenslotting would never leave out (you even used it in your 2 Mako/3 Crushing Impact example). Using the d/e/r in place of either the d/e or the d/r piece gives you values of 68.9/97.5/68.9/42.4, which using your math is a 3% better total than you give the set credit for allowing. The things you gain with the 2 extra Crushing Impact slots are 7% global accuracy and 5% global recharge, which if we're being fair really ought to be figured in and bring the total per-slot average up to 57.94% enhancement/slot. It's not the 64.75% average you get using your frankenslot, but it's also not the 52.51% you computed.
Further, what are you *getting*, when you look past the raw %s? Your frankenslot gives 80.5 damage, 3.59 end cost, a 2.25 second recharge, and 135.7% accuracy. The Crushing Impact 5-slot (using d/e rather than d/r) gives 87.9 damage, 3.85 end cost, 2.71 second recharge, and 131.9% accuracy. So, better damage, everything else slightly worse, but in exchange you've buffed every other attack's accuracy by 7% and every other power's recharge by 5%. The percentages you quote are impressive until you think about what they mean in terms of actual game-numbers. Unless you're doing nothing but Air Superiority, having it on a 2.25 second recharge vs. a 2.71 second recharge doesn't matter; it takes 1.5 seconds to animate, and even Lift has an animation time of a little over a second. The extra .26 endurance cost per activation is unlikely to be a make/break kind of deal, and the accuracy is pretty silly high in both options.
When you talk about defense slotting, you also make it sound like there are fewer options than there are, in reality. Going D/E from 2 sets and D/E/R from one of them is fine, but you can have 3 D/E slots without going to a PvP set. If you have plenty of inf, you can always get a Cytoskeleton Exposure. Those are currently running over 100m, though, and this was more of a budget-wise guide, so we'll skip that (though my current favorite defense toggle 3-slotting is Cyto+LotG Defense+LotG Defense/7.5% global; note that you could change the Defense to Defense/End if you were concerned about endurance cost, and this wouldn't take the defense slotting for the power below the Mids "yellow" level). If you drop down to sets that cap at 40, like Serendipity, putting in the D/E from that gives you better defense and endurance values than including the d/e/r from one of the level 50 sets, at the cost of a 2.2% immob resist bonus (if you're using Red Fortune). That seems like an easy trade-off to make.
I also think that there are places where you talk about slotting that may be optimal for pvp without mentioning that's what you're doing. Your suggested slotting for Crush, for example, might be great for pvp, but in pve Crush is one of grav's more useful damage powers (I'm ignoring Propel entirely because of the animation time; clearly, it does more base damage than anything else in Grav); Crush sets up containment quickly and has high base accuracy (90%), plus does better damage than Lift (even if Crush is a DoT). Most pve targets are going to be stuck just from the immob, so slotting for slow on top of that seems like overkill when fighting pve mobs. (Mids doesn't list it as affecting recharge in either pve or pvp; if it did, that might make a difference in how I thought about slotting it.) So in pve it seems like you'd get more mileage out of slotting damage rather than slow, on top of the immob. For example, if you took 3 Devastations (a/d, a/d/r, a/d/e/r), 2 Trap of the Hunter (a/i/r, i/e), and 1 Enfeebled Operation (i/e) you'd end up with 85.71% acc, 66.25% damage, 71.4% end, 60.95% recharge, and 73.78% immob - or about 59.68%/slot. Your slotting gives about 56.25%/slot. None of which takes into account that slotting for damage is more valuable than the %'s would indicate, due to containment, either.
In pvp, where there's a lot more immob resistance (combat jumping etc.) around, and you may have more damage-focused teammates, the dual-slotting looks really good (though I'd still go with 2 from Trap and 1 from Enfeebled; it's an extra 2% immob duration for the set bonus, and it's not like anything from Trap of the Hunter is *that* expensive!).
Those are mainly nit-picky things, though, and some of it's playstyle. I think you did a good job with the guide overall. It could benefit from some side-headings to help organize things for the reader a little more, but I agree with your core message: People need to think about factors other than "complete sets" when they're slotting. They need to look at their powers and what those powers do, and figure out how to get the most out of them. One of the great things about the system is that it lets people build in very different ways (you and I both have grav/rad controllers, but I'm sure they're built completely differently - and not just because I don't pvp!) but still be effective. So, thanks for writing the guide, and starting the conversation!
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Thanks for the comment. You definitely have some refined points. At the same time you also agreed I was more interested in the general point which was also right on. I just wanted to point out that my overall fact in this was to know how to program the power to the best of its ability without waste and not looking at bonuses, procs, or the use of generics. When Im able to beat a melee in arena, it tells me they simply dont know how to slot. Im not seeing the DMG priority on CI though. Maybe Im missing it because it might be a repeating effect of DMG. As I recall it was crazy low like 79.5 in PVP and 31.8 in PVE (unslotted). It just seemed like the 5-7.1s mag (1-32.9s in PVE) in immob and the 111% slows outweighed the DMG idea. I did actually have it slotted for DMG along with a chance proc in there and ended up selling it for 700 mill. The DMG aspect did nothing it seemed. You are right about still being able to target needed bonuses. One of the things I failed to mention was that in frankenslotting you can almost always swap the same values with different cards. This of course could offer different bonuses. For example using a mix of two from Red Fortune and one from Luck of the Gambler, versus using Two from luck of the Gambler and one from Red Fortune, might give you better bonuses you were needing. I was however looking at the premium cards in my ideas. Of course the better bonuses are usually placed on the higher priced cards. I also may not have mentioned that at one point my GRAV / RAD had 30 Hos and Im much better off frankenslotting.
Years ago when my Ex got me into this game, she went online read up a little about this. Three years later its defiantly the focus of what I do. I'm only posting this because all to often it ends up being a lengthy discussion while Im on a team or trying to PVP. Not that I mind helping, I probably spend more time explaining this to peeps rather then playing. It helps if you have or understand the MIDS Hero builder, which you can download for free.
After reading this you might see a respec close in your sights but I would strongly recommend you slow down and just put some thought into some things I say in here before doing so. If your reading this, its probably because I directed you here because I ran into you in the game and you didn't understand the term.
Frankenslotting is a term thats used when you mix match sets or parts of sets to achieve better slotting values. Almost always this will entail the use of IO's that for no reason I refer to as cards. Not SO's, not DO's, not generics, the ones you find in matched sets. Matched sets are usually horrible because they usually never give you good values, while some values are over, wasted, and others suffer. People buy them because they are sold on the idea of skimpy bonuses. I feel that bonuses are usually a gimmick in the game. When your totalling 3,6 or even 9% in a given bonus, I dont think its going to really help. At the same time Frankenslotting can yield accumulated bonuses of 30% or more in a specific bonuses because they frequently are repeated.
I realized some odd things about slotting after playing with the MIDS program for several months, and basically got the whole overview down on whats good and whats not. While I am a PVP'er, frankenslotting is the same, with only some differences in recharge. In PVP, battles can start and end in just a few hits while PVE is usually drawn out more.
Lets start with Frankenslotting the Fly power, but its almost identical to super speed or even run. These come in a set of three.
Lets use the "Soaring" set. You get .....
42.4% fly
42.4% End
Which is the same as using generics without the bonuses at this point. But the third one is 26.5% fly & 26.5 End.
Using this set yields 68.90% in both fly and end, in three slots.
Frankenslotting would yield 78.55% in both fly and end in the same three slots minus any would be bonuses in the matched set.
To achieve this you use fly/end from Soaring, fly/end from Winters gift, and fly /end from blessing of the zephyr.
You don't have to use MIDS to do all this but it does help.
If you didn't already know the game has something called Diminishing Return. It means that after a certain point, your slotted value decreases in gain. Here is what it looks like using a 42.4% generic as an example......
1 = 42.4% you get your full slot value.
2 = 83.32% you lost a very small acceptable amount of 1.48%
3 = 99.08% you lost an unacceptable amount of 28.12%
4 = 105.44% you lost an unacceptable amount of 64.16%
5 = 111.80% you lost an unacceptable amount of 100.20%
6 = 118.16% you lost an unacceptable amount of 136.24%
So you can see from slotting 6 of the same generics, after the second one its pretty much downhill. The MIDS program would show the first slot in white telling you its below tolerance, 2nd slot in the green meaning its ideal, the rest in red meaning you got much less for your slotting but your also using valuable slots that could have been used elsewhere, meaning other powers are suffering for this small gain. You only got 15.76% in that third slot, but remember you placed 42.4% in there, you got jipped, and your performance will show that. It might end up in your ACC or your DMG or RCH, but something is going to suffer.
Its very important to remember something I realized about this value of slotting two Generics, it also seems to be the value you want to try to hit and not go over. So what Im saying is you don't have to use or understand MIDS, if you can add up the value of two Generics, that tells you where you want to be and not go over. Another example is my controller takes Knockback. Those actually come in 75% each, so that tells me right there 150% is ideal. Defense comes in 25.5%, so 51% without going over is ideal.
If your smart enough to look at the base values of a power and make a personal decision as to how much if any needs to be slotted on it, then go for it. For example if a power has an unslotted ACC base value of 200% or higher, then you probably can get away with putting no ACC in there and still never miss. Most start at 70% or 90%, so 200% is very high, slotting it would only make it higher and you might not need that. One of the cool things about using MIDS is it tells you the base values right off the bat. The other nice thing is you can open up the Generic IO section to slot a power and instantly know what needs to be slotted and pretty much what the power does. Getting comfortable with it, you would almost know how many slots and exactly what to put in there in seconds.
As far as leaving out slotting because base values are already acceptable, I haven't gotten this deep into leaving things out. What I do is slot the power to the best of its ability and thats that. If the power still performs poorly then I know its not because of my slotting, there are simply powers that are just not good. Some miss all the time, or have low DMG or suck End real bad. You will either have to swap the power out in a respec or learn how to use it differently so that it works for you. I establish a priority when I set out to do this, and there is a combination of things to think of. I'm using a GRAV/RAD controller when I first did this. I set my priorities like this....
ACC then END then it depends on what ever the power does followed by RCH then RANGE The reason why I think ACC should be first on everyones list is because if you strike and miss it will still cost you END and you can be attacked while your missing. It's just wrong on so many levels. The great thing about slotting good on ACC is it also helps you hit those purple guys easier as well.
Choosing your cards is probably the most important thing in slotting. While most are buying matched sets, you can beat them for sure. My controller has beaten melee guys in pvp in solo situations that are embarrassing to say the least, and its not because I'm a better player. It's also important to know what NOT to slot. I have found that to often sets include things that actually don't apply to the power, but will let you slot it. Like an Endurance Mod set that includes ACC. The power I put it in doesn't take ACC, but I paid for it in more ways than one. Cramming the highest amount of applicable slotting value (without going over) into each slot is the name of the game and the only time you want to use Generics is when its the only thing it takes. In addition to that you will probably always leave out something that could be slotted (if not more) in each power, all the more reason to establish a priority. Of course all this is necessary because we dont get 6 slots in all the powers.
Here is an example. Take a shield for example, Defense / End / Rch. The base value in the RCH is usually 1 or 3 seconds. Think about it, do you really need to slot Rch? Probably not. The only time your shields will go down is when you lose all your end, which in my case Im dead either way. You certainly cant turn them back on without END either, so why slot it. I would slot .
Luck of the Gambler
DEF / END
RedFortue
DEF / END
DEF / END / RCH Only because it allows me to get my values up to par even though I could careless about RCH, the alternative is to buy a $2 Billion card from Shield Wall for DEF / END
If I failed to mention at this point, I'm assuming most only have two to five hundred million to spend and not a few billion. If you are lucky and have that type of money, my ideas here still work with the exception that purple cards do actually seem to give pretty good values all the way around. They give higher values to start with; they are more even or planned out better to appear to cover all areas in a much better value with little to no waste in addition to having much better bonuses.
Choosing your cards gets tricky. Lets look at a melee card that offers 26.5% ACC / 26.5% DMG. This card is worth 53% plus bonuses, which is better then a 42.4% Generic right? Well the more they split, the higher they are, but the harder it is to slot and the more slots it will take and the more they will cost. Mako's bite has a card that is split 4 ways 18.55% ACC / 18.55% DMG / 18.55% END / 18.55% RCH, well do the math, that card is 74.2% plus any bonuses. Thats a hot one. However its spread out so not only will it take more slots but also more split cards as well to hit your acceptable values. I try to use two to three sets in each power, this way Im still getting bonuses.
Some peeps are smart enough to target bonuses in addition to all this, if your that good, knock yourself out.
Here is another slotting example...... in the power Air Superiority. 5 slots will slam that power with EVERYTHING you need. I used ......
From the crushing impact set....
ACC / DMG / END
DMG / END / RCH
ACC / DMG / RCH
From the Mako's bite set...
ACC / DMG / END / RCH
ACC / END / RCH
Which gives me ....
80.94% ACC In the green
80.94% DMG In the green
80.94% END In the green
80.94% RCH In the green
Which is pretty darn impressive. This mix gives you a total of 323.76 (plus bonuses) / Divided by 5=64.75% average per slot, in addition to bonuses. Peeps have argued with me on this because they worry about losing there 3% or 5% global bonuses do the math and realize your better off frankenslotting.
Lets compare this to a matched set....Using 5 out of set of 6 from Crushing Impact, leaving out the Proc.
The Proc is that oddball card that does something not possible with generic IO's, like chance for recharge, or extended dmg etc....
Those 5 give you ....
68.90% ACC In the white meaning its low
98.29% DMG with a loss of 23.62%
47.70% END In the white meaning its low
47.70% RCH In the white meaning its low
For a grand total of ... 262.59% divided by 5= 52.51% average per slot, plus bonuses. Do those bonuses make up for the 61.17% loss, certainly not. Not to mention you still get some bonuses in frankenslotting. Technically you will lose one bonus per two sets used and two bonuses per three slots used in each power.
Sometimes you have to use Generic IO's because its all a power will takes; sometimes you have to give up certain things a power can slot for as well.... Here is an example.
Lets look at the pet offered in the GRAV section of my controller. It's important to know that PVE peeps especially melee guys hate it when you use KnockBack. Its because they have to be close up to hit them, and your knocking them away. My Singi pet takes the following for slotting.....
ACC/ DMG / END / HOLD / IMMOBILIZATION / INTAGIBILITY / KNOCKBACK / RANGE / RCH. Probably going to use 6 slots if you want to use most of these but your not going to be able to max all of them. The end is only an issue when I summon the pet, so not to big of a deal. Singi never dies (when he does, I get scared) so Rch is probably not a big deal either. But in PVP I die a lot so Rch is important that direction. Singi is excellent at holding groups so hold is good. Ill share my PVP slotting keeping in mind KB is maxed because I want it in PVP......
Endoplasam Exposure x 2
ACC / MEZ
Kinetic Crash
DMG / END / KB
DMG / KB
Force Feedback
DMG / END / KB
Blood Mandate
ACC / DMG / END giving me....
86.02% ACC
88.07% DMG
63.60% END
123.74% KB
66.60% mez
This is a rare example where Hamidons worked out good because on one hand they do offer high values; on the other they dont cover everything, making it harder to slot good.
A PVE example might be better as .
3 x Endoplasam Exposure
Call to Arms Dmg / End
Expedient Reinforcement
End / Dmg / Rch
Dmg / End
ACC 94.93% in the yellow, has 4.97% of loss.
DMG 69.45% in the white
RCH 21.20% in the white
Mez 94.93% in the yellow, has 4.97% of loss.
Sometimes you have to pick and choose what to focus on and leave other things unslotted, and it just depends on what you want. The aforementioned did not slot for Range or Intangibility or KB, so I felt those were the least important in the way I use Singi in PVE. Since I dont really care about DMG being a controller, it only got slotted because of split cards I used to get End and Rch.
Lets take one last look at leaving things out and prioritizing. Im looking at a power I have, called Crush. It takes ACC / DMG / END / IMMOBILISATION / RANGE / RCH / SLOW. You can tell from how many there are that you are going to have to have some things either not max slotted or not slotted at all. Since Im a controller, DMG is not a priority, slow and immobilization is. Here is what I came up with in 6 slots .
Trap of the Hunter
END / IMM
Enfeebled operation
END / IMM
ACC / IMM / RCH
Pacing of the turtle
ACC / SLOW
END / RCH / SLOW
Tempered Readiness
ACC / SLOW
Giving me
73.78% ACC in the green
73.78% END in the green
73.78% SLOW in the green
73.78% IMM in the green
42.40% RCH in the white
I decided to write this because there seems to always be one person on team with me that I can tell is suffering from DMG or END in battle. I might be in the same boat, with the exception that Im face to face with a purple and they are standing way back, and Im jumping over to them every 10 seconds to heal them at the same time. You dont have to be a math major to understand this, just know how to add is all. Let me know if this helps anyone, Id like to know.
Im open to any comments or feedback, as Im always learning as well.
Arctic Soul