Alpha Slot Removed from Going Rogue
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-07-12 11:36 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Yay! More jam tomorrow! Everyone loves Jam Tomorrow.*|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Might need a little more than a month to make it
 1-20 is just the start of Praetoria 2.0 - there'll be more in coming Issues. |
Remember when we finally got the Coming Storm resolved? That was well worth the wait, wasn't it?
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This made me spit drink all over myself |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Yay! More jam tomorrow! Everyone loves Jam Tomorrow.*
Remember when we finally got the Coming Storm resolved? That was well worth the wait, wasn't it? |
Sapphire Maiden lvl 50 Eng/Eng/Flame Blaster
Misstrix lvl 50 Fire/Rad/Ice Controller
Foundations Claw lvl 50 Fire/Fire/Flame Tank
Lord Viscera lvl 36 Necro/Dark MM/Flame Mastery
Kestrell lvl 50 Rad/Kin/Soul Corr
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*Picks himself up off the floor about half an hour later*|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
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Ow...owowow...DAMNIT GG! My ribs hurt now!
I'mma so stealing that :3
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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You have my permission to steal it |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
*Picks himself up off the floor about half an hour later*
Ow...owowow...DAMNIT GG! My ribs hurt now! I'mma so stealing that :3 |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I think it might be |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Yay! More jam tomorrow! Everyone loves Jam Tomorrow.*
Remember when we finally got the Coming Storm resolved? That was well worth the wait, wasn't it? |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Why not open up the next 20 or so levels so the alpha slot does work? Even statesman in the book had to learn and grow using his incarnate abilities. This would pretty much show that and still give the 50's something to do. Basically at 50 that opens and you start to prepare for the endgame using the experience you gain just like at a lower level,its just this time the stakes are higher.
Just a suggestion from an oldschool gamer,
~WW
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"Open up" the next 20 or so levels? You think they have content for level 70 just sitting around on a server waiting for some kind of switch to be thrown?
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Originally Posted by Windwalker
Why not open up the next 20 or so levels so the alpha slot does work?
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Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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My point was simply that they listened to us, their paying customers, which those people in closed beta most certainly are. Whether or not having a closed beta as opposed to an open one is another debate entirely.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Actually, they listened to a select group of players they handpicked.
They didn't let the community as a whole have a chance to give feedback. |
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Again, I ask: The devs have had no problems in the past with undesirable, "limited use" powers players don't like. Group Fly, Hand Clap, Whirlwind, Flurry, Temperature Protection, etc. Why the sudden desire to listen to players now, and have powers that are cool and fun?
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
After six years they should have a pretty good idea of what player expectations and desires are. That should have given them a clear picture of how players would react to the Alpha slot they put up on test long before it even got off the white board stage. Way before Posi formed his little 'strike team', players have been very vocal about what they expected from Inccarnates. The feedback the devs got on Test shouldn't have been surprising and their initial design shouldn't have been so far off the mark.
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Perhaps it's that consistent record of not understanding and not listening to the players (we did warn them about the ways to abuse the AE while it was still in beta after all), that got Positron demoted in the first place. Perhaps this got pulled, not because of some grand conspiracy, but because the new honcho - War Witch - decided to not make the same mistakes as her predecessor, and actually listened to the people complaining in closed beta.
Maybe that's what happened, we'll probably never really know for sure. But you have to admit that it's much more likely than your "Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory."
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I was gonna post something of my own, but this sums up my feelings absolutely. Though I'm disappointed it'll be longer until I get a chance to experience this content, making sure it's done right the first time is more important.|
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Nothing pleases me more than a development team that is willing to delay a project and make it perfect, rather than rush it out and say "Look, it's out on time!" with spit and duct tape still dripping from its stapled sides.
Kudos on the choice. I look forward to the upcoming system. |
Kudos indeed. ^_^
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Well, he said he was an old school gamer. Maybe he thinks they have them sitting around on Atari cartridges.|
FredrikSvanberg didn't see: "Open up" the next 20 or so levels? You think they have content for level 70 just sitting around on a server waiting for some kind of switch to be thrown? |
**blows dust out of cartridge**
Dec out.
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There's a distinct possibility that the reason for that is that a majority of the playerbase doesn't want the same things. Lot of people here, with a lot of diverse opinions.
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Peregrine_Falcon should note: But I think that the devs, and especially Positron, have consistently shown that, for whatever reason, they really do not have a clear picture of what the majority of the player base wants. |
Dec out.
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First of all, the first level of the incarnate system was 'mentioned' in more than one place/event. Continually implying this was not really being pushed as being included in GR is nothing more than BS. There have been several posts in this thread that showed were it was being pushed, and the OP itself demonstrates that it was an expected part of GR, hence the announcement it is now not included.|
Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
I think we'd ALL prefer that they get everything working on-time as much as possible, but sometimes that doesn't work out. You think you have it bad what with being told that it will be a few more months until the incarnate system is brought out? Think for a few minutes and remember that sometimes quality control needs to take precedence over something that was only openly promoted at ONE event and never mentioned anywhere else.
How about a different example: Team Fortress 2. First announced back in the 90's with preview screenshots and all....then vanished into the land of vaporware and often mentioned in the same breath as Duke Nukem Forever as 'games that will never come out.' And then it finally came out as part of the Orange Box in 2007 and blew people's minds with how good it was (and still is) compared to EVERYTHING ELSE on the same level. Valve is well-known for delaying their games, the finished products are always worth the wait. It's refreshing to see a developer taking the Valve approach of 'we can't release this in an unfinished state, people will hate it' instead of 'ohfuckit'snotreadyandthedeadline'stomorrowquicksh oveitinthecodeandfixitlatersonobodycomplainsitisn' tthere!' |
Secondly, pointing to another game that did not provide a promised feature does not excuse another company from not including a promised feature, especially in a product they pre-sold to many customers. If you're ok with that type of behavior, super, I'm sure lots of companies just love customers like that. But you shouldn't be suprised or offended that some customers don't appreciate that kind of behavior, and expect to get what they paid for and what they were told they were being sold.
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| Actually, I believe that the reason for Ultra Mode being released as part of i17 was because it was ready to go live earlier than expected. UM was NEVER intended to be part of the paid-for GR experience, it was meant to be part of the issue that came with GR. |
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| According to the main site for the game, Issue 18 will include a brand-new open-world mission generation system in addition to the standard radio missions whereby defeating foes above the level 20 range can randomly give you a new mission instead of having to visit a contact. Some of these may even be full-blown story arcs tied to the faction. This is new, this is good, this is big. Also there's nothing saying that issue 19 will not be out this year. is there a possibility that we will not see it this year? Yes, of course, but at the same time I'd rather have a polished and complete system for 'post-50' advancement in one bundle myself rather than a little brown turd that doesn't stand up on its own well that the team has to finish polishing to get it perfectly compatible with the rest of the system that could very well change between GR's release and issue 19. After all, a turd's a turd no matter how much you polish it. |
If issue 19 comes out this year I'll be shocked, pleasantly shocked, but definitely shocked. It would be a very good sign that the power reshuffling at paragon worked. Then again, I'd need to know what is in issue 19. If it ends up being just the first level of incarnates with another 'big' feature like a random contact calling you at random times, I'd be a bit less impressed, but I'm sure you'd be thrilled, so we got that going for us.
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First off it's 'unwavering' Mr. Smarty-pants. Secondly, for some of us this is the only MMO that has ever kept their attention for any appreciable amount of time. I've tried Chumps. I've tried WoW. I've tried FFXI. All of them just plain suck in comparison. As for your other gripes, allow me to quote a famous Russian: Cry some more. |
Then you put the cherry on top of your fail cake by 'crying' about my 'crying'. Brilliant!
I am another who is disappointed that incarnates are getting pulled. I am not surprised this happened though. As a hardcore gamer I know things like this happen all the time. About a month before they announced that they were pushing back Rogue from July to August, I actually told people on my teamspeak "Watch them push back Going Rogue until late August or early September". Well, as we all know, that happened. A few days ago I told one of my close friends "Watch them pull something from Going Rogue. Like the cathedral of pain, market merging or the incarnate level." Well one of those happened. So I guess I ruined Going Rogue? LOL *hides*
Incarnates played ZERO factor in me purchasing Rogue. The main reason why I bought it was for Praetoria, Dual Pistols, Demon Summoning, Kinetic Melee, Electric Control and the mentioning of new costumes. Like I said, I am not surprised this happened. Things get pushed back or taken away for reasons. Like Deadrising 2 was supposed to come out in February but here we are in July. Same thing with Duke Nukem Forever, it was in the making but they canceled the project do to insufficent funds.
I also rather them take something away so it works when it releases but the thing is that they won't promise it to be bug free on release. Hell, look at i17, bug central. Bugs can't be avoided, they happen. Am I one of the people that get upset at bugs? Of course, I have all the right to be upset at bugs but I can't go out on a limb and say it's everyones fault. Things like that happen. It's like shipping a glass bottle across the country in a van that is empty. The box just bounces around. It may arrive broken or in perfect condition.
Thanks Positron for telling us. Hope incarnates work well when they release.
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Hang on, assuming you mean UM not GR in the first part of that, what you said was...|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
I did not say that GR was intended to be part of GR, I said it was originally intended to be released at the same time. Consider your strawman footstomped.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
I'd prefer they get their work done correctly and on time, that's how it works in most businesses, well, businesses that stay in business. If you're not sure you can get a feature in, don't promote it while pre-selling said product. For them to talk about the first incarnate level being in GR how many months ago, they should have been very confident it was good to go, now a month before release, its suddenly too broken to put in?
And GR has already been delayed. Ultramode was supposed to be released along with GR, they released it earlier because GR was taking longer than expected. |
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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
Actually, I believe that the reason for Ultra Mode being released as part of i17 was because it was ready to go live earlier than expected. UM was NEVER intended to be part of the paid-for GR experience, it was meant to be part of the issue that came with GR.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
While it is obviously a matter of opinion, the new way to get missions is not a real big feature to me, and I'm fairly certain the vast majority of players would not consider it a 'big' feature, lol.
If issue 19 comes out this year I'll be shocked, pleasantly shocked, but definitely shocked. It would be a very good sign that the power reshuffling at paragon worked. Then again, I'd need to know what is in issue 19. If it ends up being just the first level of incarnates with another 'big' feature like a random contact calling you at random times, I'd be a bit less impressed, but I'm sure you'd be thrilled, so we got that going for us. |
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Secondly, pointing to another game that did not provide a promised feature does not excuse another company from not including a promised feature, especially in a product they pre-sold to many customers. If you're ok with that type of behavior, super, I'm sure lots of companies just love customers like that. But you shouldn't be suprised or offended that some customers don't appreciate that kind of behavior, and expect to get what they paid for and what they were told they were being sold.
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And that pretty much sums up my problem with this. It was a standard free issue, or did not have any pre-purchases then I would be fine with it. But the fact that people pre-purchased the expansion based primarily on this feature and now it won't be included is unacceptable.
I think the whole perks currently in game for pre-purchasing GR was in poor taste in general, I've definitely lost a little respect for the company in general based on this whole fiasco.
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Fixed my typo, though I don't think it was too hard to figure out what I meant...|
Originally Posted by Diggis
You should be careful here. Assuming you mean UM, not GR in the first part of that, what you said was...
Emphasis mine. To which: is saying that you are wrong in your reasoning as to why it was released. You said it was because GR was delayed, where as the Lady was saying it's because it was ready early. Yes, she does go on to say it wasn't meant to be part of the expansion, but still refutes your original point fine. This does have the potential to be a big feature IF it comes with new arcs and missions rather than recycling the same old ones. I'll reserve judgment untill I know otherwise, but am hopeful. |
The post was implying that I was wrong in my reasoning for why UM was released when it was, but the reality is we are both doing nothing more than guessing as to why it was released when it was. She stated "UM was NEVER intended to be part of the paid-for GR experience, it was meant to be part of the issue that came with GR. " This certainly seems to imply that I felt UM was intended to be part of GR, which is simply not true, the post she was referring to should make that clear. Now her stating "it was meant to be part of the issue that came with GR", which is what I stated in the post she was referring to, provides solid and correct reasoning for EITHER of our guesses, that UM was released early because it was simply ready early, OR it was released on early (or on time...) because they were lagging behind with GR, and wanted to give the players something to hold them over. Having said that, I don't really think there is any valid argument to imply that GR hasn't taken longer than expected, which seems to support my contentions about UM.
If you read the promotional material, the new way to get a contact seems to imply that it links to existing content, including the new content in GR, as implied by their side switching talk. If it links to a lot of new content, then that could be a big feature (the content, not the new way to get contacts, which was the feature I was referring to), but I'm not overly optimistic after reading into their copy and seeing them unable to deliver promised features in GR.
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Yeah, it was. |
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Fixed my typo, though I don't think it was too hard to figure out what I meant...
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
The post was implying that I was wrong in my reasoning for why UM was released when it was, but the reality is we are both doing nothing more than guessing as to why it was released when it was. She stated "UM was NEVER intended to be part of the paid-for GR experience, it was meant to be part of the issue that came with GR. " This certainly seems to imply that I felt UM was intended to be part of GR, which is simply not true, the post she was referring to should make that clear. Now her stating "it was meant to be part of the issue that came with GR", which is what I stated in the post she was referring to, provides solid and correct reasoning for EITHER of our guesses, that UM was released early because it was simply ready early, OR it was released on early (or on time...) because they were lagging behind with GR, and wanted to give the players something to hold them over. Having said that, I don't really think there is any valid argument to imply that GR hasn't taken longer than expected, which seems to support my contentions about UM.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
If you read the promotional material, the new way to get a contact seems to imply that it links to existing content, including the new content in GR, as implied by their side switching talk. If it links to a lot of new content, then that could be a big feature (the content, not the new way to get contacts, which was the feature I was referring to), but I'm not overly optimistic after reading into their copy and seeing them unable to deliver promised features in GR.
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Tips System The Tips System gives players a new way to find missions. During play, foes Level 20 or higher may drop notes or clues, or offer information. These Tips start new mission arcs, allowing characters to face new opponents and challenges. |
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Yeah, like some people want this to be a fun comic book super hero hero game. Others want this game to be just like every other fantasy MMO or shooter and have five different blade power sets, five different sets with firearms and will vote down sets with actual super powers because, despite playing this game, they don't actually like super heores or comics, but they really wish The Matrix Online was still going.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
There's a distinct possibility that the reason for that is that a majority of the playerbase doesn't want the same things. Lot of people here, with a lot of diverse opinions.
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The developers should be a little better at ignoring the latter, even if they outnumber the former, lest they forget the game they're working on.
I don't really care if the majority of players want a Night Elf EAT or to fight with THREE swords at once. I think there are times the devs should override the majority. IMO, they've got a poor track record of knowing when to listen and who to listen to.
They should always give players, all players, a chance to have their say; unlike this incident where they only let a few they handpicked do so. But they also need to know when to adhere to a strong design direction, and that's something they lack now, IMO or at least are lacking one that's faithful to the genre the claim to be working in.
Otherwise it's only a matter of time before the devs decide the majority of players really like NASCAR and they funnel a bunch of resources into putting a track in every zone.
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I find you lack of exaggeration disturbing...|
Johnny_Butane wants a world of no Superheroes but his own: ...exaggeration rant... |
PS: Sorry Dec had to steal your format for this one!
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I'm pointing out how much of a hypocrite Positron is by allowing bad powers to exist, but then pulling a feature people paid for without even asking their feedback. They're only commited to quality when it suits them and when it gives them an excuse to push something back and still get some fast cash up front with their lure.|
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon
I agree that there are still too many powers in this game that just suck. Do you REALLY want the devs to create more of those kinds of powers? Especially as part of the "content for 50s" system?
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| Perhaps it's that consistent record of not understanding and not listening to the players (we did warn them about the ways to abuse the AE while it was still in beta after all), that got Positron demoted in the first place. |
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While I agree that there's a sizable divide between the super-hero fans and the gamers, you can't just ignore the gamers. They're a pretty big part of the paycheck. You have to look for a balance.|
Johnny_Butane wants strict adherence: Yeah, like some people want this to be a fun comic book super hero hero game. Others want this game to be just like every other fantasy MMO or shooter and have five different blade power sets, five different sets with firearms and will vote down sets with actual super powers because, despite playing this game, they don't actually like super heores or comics, but they really wish The Matrix Online was still going. The developers should be a little better at ignoring the latter, even if they outnumber the former, lest they forget the game they're working on. |
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| I don't really care if the majority of players want a Night Elf EAT or to fight with THREE swords at once. I think there are times the devs should override the majority. IMO, they've got a poor track record of knowing when to listen and who to listen to. |
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| They should always give players, all players, a chance to have their say; unlike this incident where they only let a few they handpicked do so. |
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| But they also need to know when to adhere to a strong design direction, and that's something they lack now, IMO or at least are lacking one that's faithful to the genre the claim to be working in. |
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| Otherwise it's only a matter of time before the devs decide the majority of players really like NASCAR and they funnel a bunch of resources into putting a track in every zone. |
Silly, turgid and inaccurate, but funny nonetheless.
Dec out.
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Ha! Don't worry about it. People "borrow" it all the time over at CBR where I've been posting for years.|
ZanderCross apologizes needlessly: PS: Sorry Dec had to steal your format for this one!
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Fun, isn't it?
Dec out.
Sucks, it was the only thing I was really looking forward to with the expansion, but I guess I would rather see it done right.
Best Regards,
AngelBurst
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Oh, the AE mention above brings something to mind. I sometimes wonder if they did listen, but decided to use the exploiters as a "open beta" of their own. "Here, we know this is exploitable, exploit it so we can close the holes." Not the best method, I admit, but I sometimes wonder...
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Decorum needs to edit himself: Aside from PvP, I've never seen any evidence of that. |
Dec out.
Still, I seem to recall "this is just the beginning" comments for Ouroboros, Cimerora, and the VEAT arcs, and similar things for an expanding choices of weapons when such customization was tossed down. And in some of those cases, there have indeed been small expansions on what we got initially. However, I remain skeptical that we'll really see a lot of GR's content expanded upon in future Issues.