Alpha Slot Removed from Going Rogue
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-07-12 11:36 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Heh, there was an attempt last night on Virtue in Croatoa - the banners showed up just as a number of heroes had convened to take down Jack in Irons (conveniently right by one of the banners). After Jack went down most stayed (and probably a few more showed up). Still failed though, as the third banner went down as the time expired.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
God help us, I hope they don't base it on those.
Winter Lord might be OK, people did participate in that, but the Banner event is an unmitigated disaster. It's hell (pun intended) to get a decent zone effort going for them about 4 days after the Halloween event starts, and I have never seen anyone even try it out of season. Add in that people would have to go get level 50s if they weren't already on one to get credit? Bigtime fail unless it was significantly modified from what we see today. |
There just aren't enough cumulative rewards for it. Yeah, you get a few badges...which is nice if you are a badger. At least with the Rikti invasion you can make incremental progress - even when solo (for standard Rikti and bombs, if not for the Assault Suits) - and the payoff is an accolade that can be pretty darned handy for certain ATs. The other events just don't warrant pulling yourself away from other efforts. If you stumble upon it, fine. See if anything materializes (even then...two merits for 20 min? Really?), or just stay for a convenient steady stream of mobs.
Hmm. I wonder if an event where the zone pretty much was an ongoing event would work. Hop in if you feel like it, know that you can participate whenever, teamed or not. Eh, probably not.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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In my case, the "dev" probably stands for "deviant". |
Shadow Wail promotes me: At least one dev cares for Toxic Blast! |
Dec out.
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Actually, they listened to a select group of players they handpicked.|
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon
I've criticized the devs many times in the past because they didn't listen to our feedback. From Positron's post it appears that they actually listened to us this time. I'm really happy to see that.
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They didn't let the community as a whole have a chance to give feedback.
Again, I ask: The devs have had no problems in the past with undesirable, "limited use" powers players don't like. Group Fly, Hand Clap, Whirlwind, Flurry, Temperature Protection, etc. Why the sudden desire to listen to players now, and have powers that are cool and fun?
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So overall, I'm happy that they pulled this from GR so that it isn't delayed by this one thing. I just hope that the Incarnate System, or whatever it's being called now, doesn't end up like the Cathedral of Pain, the SSOCSS, or the major overhaul of bases that we were told was going to be in Issue 13. |
Therefore, I'm forced to conclude the devs never really intended to release the Alpha slot with GR because they expected it to get the thumbs down and knew that would give them an excuse to "push it back" to when they intended to release it all along. They just used the Alpha tease as a lure to get money up front from people who otherwise would have passed on GR until the late Fall or whenever they shove out i19.
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Thanks very much. I'm pretty sure most of us already understand the concept of a closed beta.|
Johnny_Butane never changes: Actually, they listened to a select group of players they handpicked. They didn't let the community as a whole have a chance to give feedback. |
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| Again, I ask: The devs have had no problems in the past with undesirable, "limited use" powers players don't like. Group Fly, Hand Clap, Whirlwind, Flurry, Temperature Protection, etc. Why the sudden desire to listen to players now, and have powers that are cool and fun? |
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| After six years they should have a pretty good idea of what player expectations and desires are. That should have given them a clear picture of how players would react to the Alpha slot they put up on test long before it even got off the white board stage. Way before Posi formed his little 'strike team', players have been very vocal about what they expected from Inccarnates. The feedback the devs got on Test shouldn't have been surprising and their initial design shouldn't have been so far off the mark. |
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| Therefore, I'm forced to conclude the devs never really intended to release the Alpha slot with GR because they expected it to get the thumbs down and knew that would give them an excuse to "push it back" to when they intended to release it all along. They just used the Alpha tease as a lure to get money up front from people who otherwise would have passed on GR until the late Fall or whenever they shove out i19. |
This post brought to you by Sarcasm 'R' Us.
Dec out.
I wouldn't scream sarcasm?
I mean its not the most probable reason but it was a sneak preview...Posi didn't say a sneak preview for beta testers or as a whole for GR release...semantics are their specialty...
I for one rather see incarnate plus incarnate content in a free issue rather than an expansion so if they try to pull the "GR customers only in I19 there will be a mass exodus since i18 will come out around DCUO and since its the best time for them to do so at NYC Comic Con I want to say that i19 might come out right after it in October.
I think they are playing a really dangerous game so close to its competition coming out. Before anyone says that we said the same thing about CO take to consideration that DCUO is an established franchise with over 4 years of content fans and multimedia-merchandise so my saying that we said this about CO isn't going to float well...CO wasn't real completion but DCUO and maybe Marvel might be is it ever gets off the ground... then yea that's going to be a competitor.
People already declared that they are going to let their accounts expire on this thread...I really want to be a fly on the wall at paragon studios.
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
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Why would Incarnates being GR only trigger a mass exodus? It always was GR only. Or am I reading what you're saying wrong?
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Shadow Wail goes for doooooooom: I for one rather see incarnate plus incarnate content in a free issue rather than an expansion so if they try to pull the "GR customers only in I19 there will be a mass exodus since i18 will come out around DCUO and since its the best time for them to do so at NYC Comic Con I want to say that i19 might come out right after it in October. |
Dec out.
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I think I get what he's saying pretty much, this isn't going to release with GR not even a little yet we still have to buy GR to experiance it. But that's gonna leave some/alot/none whatever people questioning what it is their sub pays for excatly. And don't say the nonsense about the people pay to access a server no one in their right mind would pay a sub for a game that isn't upgraded for free.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
Why would Incarnates being GR only trigger a mass exodus? It always was GR only. Or am I reading what you're saying wrong?
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So basically they are selling an expansion but cut it into pieces(not unlike free updates) and it could make people think it's a money grab, thus the mass exodus.
That was a mouthful and hard to word just right.
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Right. Like every update CoV had up until they combined them for free.|
Lucky666 translates: I think I get what he's saying pretty much, this isn't going to release with GR not even a little yet we still have to buy GR to experiance it. |
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| But that's gonna leave some/alot/none whatever people questioning what it is their sub pays for excatly. And don't say the nonsense about the people pay to access a server no one in their right mind would pay a sub for a game that isn't upgraded for free. |
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| So basically they are selling an expansion but cut it into pieces(not unlike free updates) and it could make people think it's a money grab, thus the mass exodus. |
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| That was a mouthful and hard to word just right. |
Dec out.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
If you're OK with a company selling you a product then yanking features AFTER you buy it, that's fine, but some of us are not. But there really is no argument as to whether or not this feature was advertised in multiple instances as being a part of GR, without question it was. |
The problem is that most of the people still posting on these boards are perfectly happy with a company selling them something and then delivering something substantially different. When it comes to revisionist history its no different. The market merger had a long list of excuses why it wasn't going to happen* but they all seem to have been dropped into the memory hole easily enough. AE had Posi blaming players for things he was warned about before it went live.
*would make the market blow up, one side earned more than the other, one side would victimize the other, mysterious plan to fix market without merging, other mysterious unstated economic problems that would happen if the market were merged
Thank you 666...why do we need GR for something that isnt in GR?
I made a similar comment in a different thread where I said it wasn't cool that we had to own GR to play Incarnates...something we've been waiting for. Now that GR will not have Incarnate levels... we still have to buy GR? They might as well start doing this across the board.
This has to bring to a change in that whole " Our updates are free" because post GR you will need GR to play these expansions.
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
I'm not quite sure where people got the idea that GR was a one-shot instead of an ongoing thing. I fully expect them to add to the 1-20 Praetoria part eventually, too. Will that be upsetting that you have to have GR for?
Dec out.
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I think the(or some of) the events to unlock it will take place in Preatoria.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Wail
Thank you 666...why do we need GR for something that isnt in GR?
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Goodbye. Not to the game, but the players. Goodbye. Everyone, remember to have fun. That's all I can say.
I wonder if I could get a job following Posi around with a tuba and anytime he can't deliver something I'll play the brrr brr br part.
Too much hate'n in this thread! We need control!
you cant compare CoV to an expansion for both. They added stuff to CoV and that was for CoV only. When they add stuff for CoH only ( Most issues) you bought CoH.
But it is a different story when you sell a product to the whole community but require the entire community to buy it in order to play it when it is in an issue and when these issues have been publicized as free mini expansions. Once we now have to buy X to play Z then we get into a tricky area where some people might get upset.
saying that this was the case with CoV does not make sense. They never said "Hey here is new content for everyone to play but you have to own City of VIllains to play it. The addition of Grandville to CoV should not effect anyone in Paragon City since they never got into The Isles
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
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It is not his fault. He and the devs created the incarnate system as intended... the closed bet community complained about drop rates, function in the CURRENT game. The only issue that I see is a lack of planning. Making the Alpha Slot with not enough to hold us over is a mistake nothing that we should hate spam Posi...hes like a big teddy bear I love Posi
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Originally Posted by Marsquake2
I wonder if I could get a job following Posi around with a tuba and anytime he can't deliver something I'll play the brrr brr br part.
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http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
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Ive never said it was a one shot deal.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
I'm not quite sure where people got the idea that GR was a one-shot instead of an ongoing thing. I fully expect them to add to the 1-20 Praetoria part eventually, too. Will that be upsetting that you have to have GR for?
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I am not upset that they are adding Praetoria content and that we are forced to buy it, I am teeved that we are expected to buy GR to partake in a global system that we have all wanted since we first got out first 50 and looked around and moved to our next project.
If the devs added 20-50 content in Praetoria, I wouldn't go screaming like a banshee because its not fair. That is in its full right is fair, in order to go play Praetorian content inside the Praetorian zones, you must be a GR subscriber...that is fair and profitable. You bought the expansion you play the content because its expansion exclusive. To add incarnates as a global feature into an expansion that some might or might not get isnt really fair...say what you what it isn't fair to the people that cant afford it for whatever reason.
If they release Incarnates in i19 and say that in order to play incarnates you are going to need Praetoria that isnt fair.
NOW if the devs went and said that some of the incarnate levels are going to require GR but some might not that is a different story.
Ill pick up GR when I see enough content for my time
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
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Might need a little more than a month to make it |
Originally Posted by Shadow Wail
Instead of pulling the slot because there wasn't much to do with them and that the devs didn't like the way it worked with the players...why not add 50+ content for i18??
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| I am always confuzzled by the dev interest in 1-20 content? Everything the devs know bout 1-20 contradicts their attempts to make 1-20 content. A year or so they bumped the rate at which we level in the 1-20 range...I would think that if they want to showcase their awesome work with GR they would make leveling in that area as hard as possible but not impossible so the hypothetical new customers can see what the devs have done and to keep an interest going. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The Incarnate content is tied to GR - they've been saying that right form the first announcement of hte system and I19 - there'll be some free stuff in I19, but if you don't own GR, then you'll not be able to access the endgame stuff.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Wail
I for one rather see incarnate plus incarnate content in a free issue rather than an expansion so if they try to pull the "GR customers only in I19 there will be a mass exodus since i18 will come out around DCUO and since its the best time for them to do so at NYC Comic Con I want to say that i19 might come out right after it in October.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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War Witch has pretty much said that GR is just the start of their plans for Praetoria 2.0.
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Originally Posted by Decorum
I'm not quite sure where people got the idea that GR was a one-shot instead of an ongoing thing. I fully expect them to add to the 1-20 Praetoria part eventually, too. Will that be upsetting that you have to have GR for?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The number one reason for no market merge was alwasy that there was a danger it would wipe out items and inventories, and that they didn't want to take that risk - and from the reactions by some to the postponment of a small endgame preview in GR, I think we can guess how they might have reacted to finding their inventories and biods wiped out |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The problem is that most of the people still posting on these boards are perfectly happy with a company selling them something and then delivering something substantially different. When it comes to revisionist history its no different. The market merger had a long list of excuses why it wasn't going to happen* but they all seem to have been dropped into the memory hole easily enough. AE had Posi blaming players for things he was warned about before it went live.
*would make the market blow up, one side earned more than the other, one side would victimize the other, mysterious plan to fix market without merging, other mysterious unstated economic problems that would happen if the market were merged |
Plus, after over three months of beta testing, their theories on the economic effects of a market merge might have been proven incorrect by the actual in-game effects.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The side switching content is 20-50|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
I could be completely off-base here, but I don't understand why everyone is saying that since the single level of Incarnate play was removed from GR, all it is now is a 1-20 game.
The Devs have said repeatedly that you can't change your alignment until after level 20, and since we don't currently have a mechanism in the game to change your alignment, it's pretty obvious to me that there is going to be new 21-50 content in GR. |
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| Again, I could be wrong, and if I am, I will be VERY disappointed myself, but my assumption is that they are not going to add one or two story arcs that players have to go through ad naseum with every character they want to side-switch. Since the price of GR is similar to the price of CoH and CoV when they came out, I fully expect a similar amount of content all the way from 1-50 that those games had at launch. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Made me LOL |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
07:13 this morning.
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As this discussion moves away more from the Removal of the "Alpha Slot" originally scheduled for release with Going Rogue, I wanted to actually comment on the topic at hand.
I'm okay with it.
After over five years of entertainment, I have come to appreciate this game more and more. By that same token, I have come to expect more from the Development team. My primary expectation is that they will both listen to their playerbase and strive to provide content with player suggestions in mind. I consider this recent decision to be an example of that covenant. While it is a delay in the introduction of a highly-anticipated system, the mere conceit that it needs work in order to better match player utility is indicative of a Devolopment team that seeks to improve the quality of the product they provide.
With that said, there are certainly areas of disappointment that have been noted around the community. Players seeking "x" and finding instead that "y" is the higher Dev priority certainly are entitled to be disappointed. The caveat is that there exists a mismatch of expectations that led to said disappoint. It may be healthier to critique the Devs based on what actually is a Dev priority and how they ultimately execute their plan. There are thousands of players with individual priorities for this game, but the Devs can only accomodate so many priorities at a time. Is it better to submit a project sooner, despite its status not meeting intended performance measures? Is it better to delay a lower-performing project during a time in which its immediate inclusion is critical to some customers? It depends. I only know where I stand on the issue. I measure their performance based on their choice of priority and the manner at which they meet their intended goals. Delays are but one metric in evaluating the success of a project.
Positron stated in his announcement that they still would like to provide an "Alpha Slot Preview." I'm uncertain what that would involve, but I look forward to the opportunity to judge the system for myself.
Veridian Dynamics. Mistakes. We all make them. But sometimes mistakes lead to great discoveries. Mistakes are how we learn and grow... so we can do amazing things.
When you think about it, shouldn't you be thanking us for making mistakes? Veridian Dynamics. We're sorry. You're welcome.
Urp...
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/