Alpha Slot Removed from Going Rogue
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-07-12 11:36 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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It's not here, either. There's hardly been a consistent inability to meet a deadline. There's been a handful of isolated incidents, no more or less than other games.|
James_Donner has his own views: Demonstrating a consistent inability to meet a deadline is not SOP in any industry. |
You have a tendency to exaggerate a lot, don't you?
Dec out.
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Yeah, that's enough for me, too. James can have the last rebuttal, but it's likely he'll just lay on more hyperbole.
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Sardan has a point: I know it's fun talking about DCUO and how Posi is worse than Hitler, but can you move those discussions to a different part of the forum? This thread is meant to be for discussion the removal of the Alpha slot. The topics you're discussing can go on endlessly and they'll obscure posts that are on topic. |
Dec out.
Nah, I just like to argue and I am disappointed in the Devs. I just expect better.
"If a system can be exploited, it will be exploited. And if a developer thinks their system cannot be exploited, it'll be exploited like a new actress in her first porn movie." Sanya Weather MMORPG Examiner
Ok, after reading most of this thread; and taking time to think about it, I've go with a working system later instead of a broken one now.
But that being a said....
If I order a pizza and the waiter tells me they screwed up and its going to be another 20 minutes, I sorta expect free breadsticks or something to hold me over till I get what I ordered. Thats called good costumer service.
So what do you say NCSoft? perhaps add in 30 days game time to preorders now, or a couple of more character slots, or a new temp power (making that $5 jetpack free). Any of those 3 are already in game so no new coding and aren't game breaking. Just saying maybe its time for CS to step in where Devs/Marketing fell down.
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In spite of their "consistent inability to meet a deadline"? |
Originally Posted by James_Donner
Nah, I just like to argue and I am disappointed in the Devs. I just expect better.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Well, on that part, we might as well be brothers. |
James_Donner has it, too: Nah, I just like to argue... |
Dec out.
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I think we'd ALL prefer that they get everything working on-time as much as possible, but sometimes that doesn't work out. You think you have it bad what with being told that it will be a few more months until the incarnate system is brought out? Think for a few minutes and remember that sometimes quality control needs to take precedence over something that was only openly promoted at ONE event and never mentioned anywhere else.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
I'd prefer they get their work done correctly and on time, that's how it works in most businesses, well, businesses that stay in business. If you're not sure you can get a feature in, don't promote it while pre-selling said product. For them to talk about the first incarnate level being in GR how many months ago, they should have been very confident it was good to go, now a month before release, its suddenly too broken to put in?
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How about a different example: Team Fortress 2. First announced back in the 90's with preview screenshots and all....then vanished into the land of vaporware and often mentioned in the same breath as Duke Nukem Forever as 'games that will never come out.' And then it finally came out as part of the Orange Box in 2007 and blew people's minds with how good it was (and still is) compared to EVERYTHING ELSE on the same level. Valve is well-known for delaying their games, the finished products are always worth the wait. It's refreshing to see a developer taking the Valve approach of 'we can't release this in an unfinished state, people will hate it' instead of 'ohfuckit'snotreadyandthedeadline'stomorrowquicksh oveitinthecodeandfixitlatersonobodycomplainsitisn' tthere!'
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
And GR has already been delayed. Ultramode was supposed to be released along with GR, they released it earlier because GR was taking longer than expected. When can we look forward to the incarnate system, late 2011? I have a feeling their knack for missing deadlines, and slow movement, is why there was a recent power shuffle at paragon studios, though perhaps too late to prevent this problem. Hopefully the situation improves as they move forward.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Now to more directly answer your original question. I'd like to see more new stuff for my money, even if it isn't 'perfect'. Maybe lessen the focus on stopping the dreaded 'farmers' and nerfing things, and more focus on releasing new content. Put the GR paid expansion aside - what are players getting this year for their subscription money? Ultramode which is bascially some shadows and reflections, the COP trial which was supposed to be out several years ago, and a few new 'mirror' missions. That's pretty bad, imo. Now if you buy the paid expansion, it looks like we'll get some new zones and lvl 1-20 content, side switching missions, and four new powersets. Not bad, but nothing overwhelming considering its a paid expansion, especially now that one of the more interesting features that expanded playability for level 50 characters has been pulled indefinitely. And just look at a feature that is being reintroduced at the same time (cop trial) to see how long indefinitely can be in this game.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Now I know that the boards here are filled with unwaivering loyalists, but it's absurd to claim people don't have reason to be critical of recent situations in this game. And I do this as a fan of this game who enjoys the vast majority of what the game makers have done here. But for this game to continue to survive, and I want it to continue to survive, they need to do a better job of getting new content out in a more timely fashion.
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Cry some more.
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As Beta gets bigger and more and more people get involved, of course things that seemed brilliant at initial inception are going to show theie flaws. Thats kind of the whole point of beta.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
I'd prefer they get their work done correctly and on time, that's how it works in most businesses, well, businesses that stay in business. If you're not sure you can get a feature in, don't promote it while pre-selling said product. For them to talk about the first incarnate level being in GR how many months ago, they should have been very confident it was good to go, now a month before release, its suddenly too broken to put in?
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Posi's post implies they had a fully functioning first tier of the incarnate system, everything worked...but it just wasn't any good/fun/as useful/desirable to use as intended.
Thats not their fault, its something that only could only come to light as more players, experienced players get a grip at the system.
They promoted the "Alpha Slot" because it was ready to go, because it was unforseeable that it would need drastic alteration. They could give you the alpha slot, and you (not just the quoted individual, but most people) would complain it was a waste of time.
While yes, I'm a bit dissapointed I don't get to do stuff for my 50s, I'm ok with that because I have such bad altitis, I barely keep using my 50s once they get there anyway, and since GR will have me side switching 1 villain part way, 1 villain the whole way. Rolling 3 different types of Electric Control alt. Possibly rolling a new MM to see how they level hero Side. Dabbling in Kinetic Melee and anything else that they sneak in. I personally am quite happy for it. Since the last booster I bought was the Mutation one, where I was effectvely paying for a self buffing temp power and a few cc_emotes (oh and 2 not too awesome costume sets) I dont feel like im paying over the odds for all the content i'll be getting.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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NO
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You seemed to object to the "grind" invovled in unlocking it - that "grind" is very likely to remain the same when the slot does go live - it wasn't the reason it was pulled from GR.
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I'd ask "jranger, is that you?" except that your "no" makes no sense in that context. No what?
Dec out.
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Context. Try it out some time.
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Originally Posted by ZanderCross
Speaking of making statements when you don't know what you're talking about! DCUO is a FULL GAME... GR is an EXPANSION... This comment made me LOL... I love when people try to get other people to understand that they know less than they act like!
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Originally Posted by GMan3
I have to admit to being a little amazed here. All the people crying Doom and yet not wanting a lame duck at the same time. Personally I am glad that they are going to hold this up. I would much rather see them "fix" the Incarnates abilities than release something broken to begin with. Didn't we just see that happen in Issue 17?
I remember a long time ago getting the "Cathedral of Pain" addition to the game and that lasted about a week or two before they yanked it off. Why? It wasn't ready. We had a right to be mad about something being released before it was ready, we would be stupid to be mad at them for holding the release of this until it is properly polished. Bravo to the staff of Paragon Studios for making this well thought out decision and letting us know WELL in advance. My hats are off to all of you. I at least appreciate the information and I think many more will when they take the time to really think this through. |
Sorry y'all but, I am quoting myself in order to reply to a Negative Reputation Point I received. Pretty sure that point came from the person who posted after me, but in any case they didn't have the courage to leave their name so I'll never know. Original post is on page #6 if anyone wants to see it in context.
WELL in advance isn't a month before it goes live.Actually, over a month in advance of going live is pretty darn good. Would you have rather they waited until the week before release or even on the date of release? Maybe you would have preffered it was never announced until after people had been grinding away for it and could never get it? Kinda like the e-mail fiasco.
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Originally Posted by GMan3
Sorry y'all but, I am quoting myself in order to reply to a Negative Reputation Point I received. Pretty sure that point came from the person who posted after me, but in any case they didn't have the courage to leave their name so I'll never know. Original post is on page #6 if anyone wants to see it in context.
WELL in advance isn't a month before it goes live.Actually, over a month in advance of going live is pretty darn good. Would you have rather they waited until the week before release or even on the date of release? Maybe you would have preffered it was never announced until after people had been grinding away for it and could never get it? Kinda like the e-mail fiasco. |
Wait. I was the person who posted after you!!*
Twasn't me. I don't do neg repping. I just reply with whatever I want to say and would have stated it in my reply.
Plus I can use Shift properly thank you very much.
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This is the part that...startles me. The system was designed properly and worked, but nobody discussed or challenged how good/fun/as useful/desirable it was before it went into Beta?|
Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
As Beta gets bigger and more and more people get involved, of course things that seemed brilliant at initial inception are going to show theie flaws. Thats kind of the whole point of beta.
Posi's post implies they had a fully functioning first tier of the incarnate system, everything worked...but it just wasn't any good/fun/as useful/desirable to use as intended. Thats not their fault, its something that only could only come to light as more players, experienced players get a grip at the system. |
Now I bet that there were these discussions internally. However, this shows me that there is a HUGE disconnect between what the Devs consider good/fun/as useful/desirable and what the Beta players consider good/fun/as useful/desirable.
I guess it is good that it is being pulled based on feedback, but this never should have gotten this far....
Go Team Venture!
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I think you might find "yes" is the correct answer |
Originally Posted by Silver_Lobo
NO
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I think it's just a general sort of all purpose "no" - it doesn't have to have context or make sense |
Originally Posted by Decorum
I'd ask "jranger, is that you?" except that your "no" makes no sense in that context. No what?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I could be completely off-base here, but I don't understand why everyone is saying that since the single level of Incarnate play was removed from GR, all it is now is a 1-20 game.
The Devs have said repeatedly that you can't change your alignment until after level 20, and since we don't currently have a mechanism in the game to change your alignment, it's pretty obvious to me that there is going to be new 21-50 content in GR.
Again, I could be wrong, and if I am, I will be VERY disappointed myself, but my assumption is that they are not going to add one or two story arcs that players have to go through ad naseum with every character they want to side-switch. Since the price of GR is similar to the price of CoH and CoV when they came out, I fully expect a similar amount of content all the way from 1-50 that those games had at launch.
And maybe your saying, "Well, where does that leave those of us who don't want to switch sides?" My answer would be, the same place it leave those of us who do - the new missions are going to have moral choices which can shift your alignment based on what you choose. Want your hero to stay a hero? Make the moral choice. Want you villain to stay a villain? Make the immoral choice.
The one thing I think everyone needs to keep in mind is that CoX as a whole is a six year old game with the combined content of two whole games plus 18 free issues and six years worth of development. Don't expect Paragon Studios to match that amount of content in one expansion to the game, and I don't think you'll be disappointed.
I just hope, as others have said, that Incarnates doesn't become the new Cathedral of Pain/City Vault where it gets pushed back indefinitely. If the full Incarnate system is introduced in I19 in late 2010 or VERY early 2011, I will be satisfied because I too am really looking forward to this system.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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Well, first it's the internet, where reductionism and ignoring large parts of things is sadly par for the course.|
mousedroid is there and not: I could be completely off-base here, but I don't understand why everyone is saying that since the single level of Incarnate play was removed from GR, all it is now is a 1-20 game. The Devs have said repeatedly that you can't change your alignment until after level 20, and since we don't currently have a mechanism in the game to change your alignment, it's pretty obvious to me that there is going to be new 21-50 content in GR. |
And second, Praetoria only has 1-20 content (so far). The 20-50 side changing stuff takes place in Paragon and the Isles, but you are correct that it's all part of GR.
Dec out.
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Arrrggghhh the voice of reason!!! Nooooo!!! Burn the heretic!|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
... Serious reasonable post!...
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LOL! What does that have to do with you being completely and totally wrong with what you said? I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Context. Try it out some time.
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Actually, I think he's saying you need to go read his previous posts to see the context he said it in, as it makes sense there. |
Originally Posted by ZanderCross
LOL! What does that have to do with you being completely and totally wrong with what you said? I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.
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AHHhhhhhh! I find myself agreeing with mousedroid! Very uncharacteristic of me. Seriously though, very good post. I don't completely agree with you, but it is well reasoned and written. Posi Rep for you sir!|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
I could be completely off-base here, but I don't understand why everyone is saying that since the single level of Incarnate play was removed from GR, all it is now is a 1-20 game.
The Devs have said repeatedly that you can't change your alignment until after level 20, and since we don't currently have a mechanism in the game to change your alignment, it's pretty obvious to me that there is going to be new 21-50 content in GR. Again, I could be wrong, and if I am, I will be VERY disappointed myself, but my assumption is that they are not going to add one or two story arcs that players have to go through ad naseum with every character they want to side-switch. Since the price of GR is similar to the price of CoH and CoV when they came out, I fully expect a similar amount of content all the way from 1-50 that those games had at launch. And maybe your saying, "Well, where does that leave those of us who don't want to switch sides?" My answer would be, the same place it leave those of us who do - the new missions are going to have moral choices which can shift your alignment based on what you choose. Want your hero to stay a hero? Make the moral choice. Want you villain to stay a villain? Make the immoral choice. The one thing I think everyone needs to keep in mind is that CoX as a whole is a six year old game with the combined content of two whole games plus 18 free issues and six years worth of development. Don't expect Paragon Studios to match that amount of content in one expansion to the game, and I don't think you'll be disappointed. I just hope, as others have said, that Incarnates doesn't become the new Cathedral of Pain/City Vault where it gets pushed back indefinitely. If the full Incarnate system is introduced in I19 in late 2010 or VERY early 2011, I will be satisfied because I too am really looking forward to this system. |
Personally, I think people are forgetting that in order for the whole Incarnate System to work at all, there has to be a LOT more 50+ content. Maybe I am being over-optimistic, but they do go hand in hand here.
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This is the kind of post I normally would say. In fact I did go as far to explain all of the ins and outs that I believe would be in the game because of all the new side switching missions and everything, but like Dec and others say, no one listens to us lol. They just want to gripe and complain! |
Originally Posted by mousedroid
...what I would normally say...
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I don't recall saying no one listens to us.
Thinking it, maybe.
Dec out.
Yeah I think basically calling a huge % of your player base a bunch of cheaters because you didn't like what they did to your new shiny toy to be morally offensive. I know I get offended when someone calls me a cheat at any game I am playing within its rules.
Dec out.
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