Discussion: Introducing Issue 18: Shades of Gray!
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2010-07-08 11:01 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Tip System ehe? Ya know for a while now I have been calling it Dynamic Content (tm)!
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
Quote:
You're seriously mixing up deliverables. Yes, GR is being hyped as pure undistilled awesomeness. i18 is the freebie that goes alongside the expansion. It has a few nifty items but they're mostly spillover from GR. |
Originally Posted by Alpha_A
Very true. I guess I was just hoping that the dev team would go all-out for this, considering Going Rogue is being hyped as the biggest thing since sliced bread!
|
Quote:
| I was expecting more, see less, and am still praying that the devs can get base raids up and running before the Issue hits. (I can dream, right?) Hopefully this Issue will bring attention to the parts of the Endgame that still need work. Namely: Pvp, Bases, and Dead Zones! |
Basically what we're getting is what's been unveiled for GR and i18. They usually save a couple of cool items for the actual release announcement but historically they haven't been tentpole features.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
Quote:
I'm fairly certain, they mean you can set it up, so that the doppleganger is a copy of the person running your MArc.
|
Originally Posted by Anarchist_Kitten
So the new "Doppelgangers" what's up with that? I mean I can already make a claws/regen stalker via the Mission AE, or are they going make it so that even enhancements and such are carried over, and can we finally have EATS and VEATS in missions?
|
Victory Wiki
Login Screen changer (OS X/Windows/*nix)
Web based Base designer
SO/DO Enhancement Standardization Pack
CoH Community Mods Installer
Quote:
HUMOR ALERT!|
Originally Posted by Arbiter_Shade
QR:
So CoP is coming back but the way to improve it is to remove all PvP aspects to it when that was part of its original purpose? Okay. I can live with that. 24 people? Does anyone else realize that this means for the most part this will never be done past a couple of weeks past release? 24 people...Considering the merit reward rate this probably wont give enough for people to really want to try all that hard at it. But people still do Hami so I might be wrong but I am rather cynical. |
For the CoP to have kept its PvP componant there would have had to have been 24 PvPers left in the game to run it.
END HUMOR ALERT
Without more data on how teams are built (all in the same SG? Coalition? Anyone crazy enough to go with a random bunch of crazies?) and the actual minimum requirements (can it be run with 22? 12? 8? 6?) plus more info on the rewards (takes an hour, but breaks the "merit scale" by offering 150 of them? 25? 10? Has a regular badge and a Master one? Has no Master of but offers a regular? Has a badge required for a new accolade? Has a temp buff?) and the the "fun factor" (is it ITF fun? LGTF fun? Old Posi annoying? Dr. Q hateable?) it's impossible to do much more than speculate and navel gaze on it plus list possible fears we personally have about it.
Quote:
A doppleganger implies a copy of someone. So if you put dopplegangers in a mission, presumably what goes in there is a copy of whoever has the star. Or maybe a copy of each member of the entire team? The key is that it's a copy that gets done at the time the mission is run. If it was a fixed character, that'd be no different than what we have now.
|
Originally Posted by Anarchist_Kitten
So the new "Doppelgangers" what's up with that? I mean I can already make a claws/regen stalker via the Mission AE, or are they going make it so that even enhancements and such are carried over, and can we finally have EATS and VEATS in missions?
|
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
Quote:
I think they mean as in they will copy whoever enters the mission as per the new mission arcs and Posi TF so it will be different each time.
|
Originally Posted by Anarchist_Kitten
So the new "Doppelgangers" what's up with that? I mean I can already make a claws/regen stalker via the Mission AE, or are they going make it so that even enhancements and such are carried over, and can we finally have EATS and VEATS in missions?
|
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Quote:
|
Quote:
I'm not sure specifically what you're asking, but the Doppelganger function seems to be based on the tech used in the I17 missions that came out where you face a version of yourself (a version, not the exact ones...no enh and sometimes slightly different powers, depending on your build).|
Anarchist_Kitten wonders: So the new "Doppelgangers" what's up with that? I mean I can already make a claws/regen stalker via the Mission AE, or are they going make it so that even enhancements and such are carried over, and can we finally have EATS and VEATS in missions? |
EDIT: Beaten out not once, not twice, but THRICE!
Dec out.
Quote:
The difference is, whenever someone else plays the arc they will be fighting themselves and not your toon.
|
Originally Posted by Anarchist_Kitten
So the new "Doppelgangers" what's up with that? I mean I can already make a claws/regen stalker via the Mission AE, or are they going make it so that even enhancements and such are carried over, and can we finally have EATS and VEATS in missions?
|
Quote:
I think it's so that whoever plays it fights themselves. So if you create it, I'd enter it with my Grav/FF and fight.... a Grav/FF.
|
Originally Posted by Anarchist_Kitten
So the new "Doppelgangers" what's up with that? I mean I can already make a claws/regen stalker via the Mission AE, or are they going make it so that even enhancements and such are carried over, and can we finally have EATS and VEATS in missions?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
|
Quote:
Well, as I recall the original Cathedral of Pain was made for SG's to do (maybe coalitions? I dunno). Big SG's. This is back when everything base related was still super-expensive with rent being based off of plot size and nobody having that much prestige yet. It was a big, fat, nasty thing (in theory) that gave a SG-wide buff through the Items of Power. The IoP's then opened you up to mandatory base-raid PVP.|
Originally Posted by Arbiter_Shade
QR:
So CoP is coming back but the way to improve it is to remove all PvP aspects to it when that was part of its original purpose? Okay. I can live with that. 24 people? Does anyone else realize that this means for the most part this will never be done past a couple of weeks past release? 24 people...Considering the merit reward rate this probably wont give enough for people to really want to try all that hard at it. But people still do Hami so I might be wrong but I am rather cynical. |
If base-raiding isn't up and running, well, no point in having a PVP-inducing reward, either. I would imagine they could add it in at a later point in time.
I'm hoping this will be a good activity for large groups, although its still a lower headcount requirement than any Mothership raid I've done.
Quote:
UP TO 24 people. That means it's a maximum. We have no idea what the minimum is.
|
Arbiter_Shade gives the usual internet qualifier-ectomy: So CoP is coming back but the way to improve it is to remove all PvP aspects to it when that was part of its original purpose? Okay. I can live with that. 24 people? Does anyone else realize that this means for the most part this will never be done past a couple of weeks past release? 24 people...Considering the merit reward rate this probably wont give enough for people to really want to try all that hard at it. But people still do Hami so I might be wrong but I am rather cynical. |
Dec out.
Quote:
Yep. PvP is still in the "phase one" changes they wanted to make to make it more accessable. The exodous of the PvP crowd (not all of them, mind you but enough to matter about such things) has made PvP an insanely low priority for resources and it was already pretty low before. They went form something like 10% of the population to less than 5%. In a resource intensive development, giving something to 5% of the population that the other 95% won't care about or may even view as a foolish waste without a near guaranteed increase in that 5% of the pop is a poor use of resources from a corporate standpoint.|
Originally Posted by Sardan
Sorry, but you need to adjust your expectations downward. Devs have confirmed that no work is being done on base raids. While they didn't explicitly say nothing is being done for PvP, I'd bet money that's the case too. There's simply no way they'd be silent on that at this stage of the game. Ditto for base enhancements.
|
At this point, it's best to hope for the best for PvP but assume it will not change in anything close to the near term, if ever. That way when nothing happens you're not disappointed (might even be a little perversely happy you were right) and if something does happen, you're elated to see the attention.
Hey, Mission Architect improvements? Good to see you guys trying something new.
Quote:
If it still requires 24 L50's then likely, yes. Time to recheck my bases for raid capacity.
|
Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
The CoP Trial was previously attach to Base Raids, is that still the case?
|
This all sounds like fun and genuinely exciting stuff! Great Job! (Not the sarcastic Tim and Eric one, but a REAL one!)
Open the pod bay doors, Hal.
Quote:
I'd hazard a guess that 6 to 8 is the minimum.
|
Originally Posted by Decorum
UP TO 24 people. That means it's a maximum. We have no idea what the minimum is.
|
.. Does Rularuu have a Rularuu-ized Weighted Companion Cube?!
No wonder he's insane. He should have euthanized it long ago.
Quote:
Yes, but not as fast as I euthanized mine. I'm euthanized my cube faster than any other test subject on record.
|
Originally Posted by Starcloud
.. Does Rularuu have a Rularuu-ized Weighted Companion Cube?!
No wonder he's insane. He should have euthanized it long ago. |
Arc #345863 - When The Bough Breaks
"Curse you Perry the Plata...wait, is that Love Handel?" - Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz, Phineas and Ferb
Quote:
You're not listening. Ghost Falcon already said no and that there is no active work happening on base raids right now.
|
Originally Posted by Nericus
If it still requires 24 L50's then likely, yes. Time to recheck my bases for raid capacity.
|
Hello, my name is @Caligdoiel and I'm an altoholic.
Quote:
QFE|
Originally Posted by Alpha_A
Well, that's a bit.....disappointing.
I hope that I'm wrong, but this Issue seems to be adding nothing noteworthy to CoX. The addition of Cross Alignment trading is nice, but that's what GR was introducing, correct? The Tip System is interesting, but there's not enough info to really say what it will bring to the table. Sure, the Cathedral of Pain is nice, but what's the point if bases still (for lack of a better word) suck? Unless Base Raids are put back, this feature is pretty useless. I'm sure that some people will play it, just to see what the Devs have done but, once the hype dies down, no one will be running it. Once again, I really hope that I'm wrong but, so far, color me disappointed. ~Alpha |
Seriously, I have been going over the list of everything and the free portion of Issue 18 is quite underwhelming. First off, a majority of the "features" could very easily just have been added in as a patch without a tie in to the purchase. Seriously, they can merge the market at any time and additions are made to AE all the time outside of Issue releases, so making them "features" of the free portion of the issue is not exciting.
The CoP: even revamped, will people still need the base item to get the mission or will it be made as a contact outside of bases like Silver Mantis? If you still need bases, then this becomes a gated TF (gated in that you have to 1) Have a SG base and 2) Have the item that gives you the CoP within the base).
These Tip missions according to ViDoc 2 sound like they lead to these Morality missions which then set you up to switch alignments somehow (which is only available to do if you buy GR, since Ghost Falcon said you cannot side switch without purchasing GR)... is it just me, or does this sound like a variation of the scanner/paper mission setup but once your bar's full you can't get the Safeguard/Mayhem mission until you pony up the cash? So in other words, you're progressing to nowhere until you pay $30-$40?
In comparison to other free issues released in conjunction with a new physical product, I18: Shades of Gray is the smallest and least impressive of them all, and probably ranks near the very bottom of all free issues in terms of overall content.
As for those free Issues tied to physical products, the scale right now is this in terms of content:
I6 > I14 > I18
Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx
The Cape Radio
"It's good to have friends. Wish I did." - Troy Hickman
Quote:
Yes that is the way I read it. So these "tip" missions are effectively paper missions, but upon the 5th (or w/e) one instead of robbing a bank you get to run a morality mission.|
Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
Customers who do not choose to upgrade with the Going Rogue expansion will be able to do "Tip" missions, but will not be able to switch their alignments.
As mentioned in the ViDoc videos, characters have to do a number of "Tip" missions before they can get a "Morality" mission. The "Morality" mission is the determining mission that changes your alignment, and is only available to players who purchase the Going Rogue expansion. |
I guess if the wheel already works, no need to reinvent it...
COP is a nice addition, good to see all that previously completed work put back in to the game.
Of course i18 was going to be bleak and it is. Here's hoping the GR feature list is huge, which is going to be a lot of content to jam in to 1-20. The disappointment meter is climbing.
Quote:
Read the rest of the thread to avoid wasting your time. |
Nericus comes in at the middle: If it still requires 24 L50's then likely, yes. Time to recheck my bases for raid capacity. |
Dec out.
Quote:
Huh? I11? No physical product anywhere near that one. I'm guessing you mean 14, for the Architect Edition.
|
Originally Posted by Pheonyx
QFE
Seriously, I have been going over the list of everything and the free portion of Issue 18 is quite underwhelming. First off, a majority of the "features" could very easily just have been added in as a patch without a tie in to the purchase. Seriously, they can merge the market at any time and additions are made to AE all the time outside of Issue releases, so making them "features" of the free portion of the issue is not exciting. The CoP: even revamped, will people still need the base item to get the mission or will it be made as a contact outside of bases like Silver Mantis? If you still need bases, then this becomes a gated TF (gated in that you have to 1) Have a SG base and 2) Have the item that gives you the CoP within the base). These Tip missions according to ViDoc 2 sound like they lead to these Morality missions which then set you up to switch alignments somehow (which is only available to do if you buy GR, since Ghost Falcon said you cannot side switch without purchasing GR)... is it just me, or does this sound like a variation of the scanner/paper mission setup but once your bar's full you can't get the Safeguard/Mayhem mission until you pony up the cash? So in other words, you're progressing to nowhere until you pay $30-$40? In comparison to other free issues released in conjunction with a new physical product, I18: Shades of Gray is the smallest and least impressive of them all, and probably ranks near the very bottom of all free issues in terms of overall content. As for those free Issues tied to physical products, the scale right now is this in terms of content: I6 > I11 > I18 Ashes to ashes, Pheonyx |
[url="http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/User:SaintNicster"]ParagonWiki User Page[/url]
[url="http://cit.cohtitan.com/profile/214#list"]City Info Tracker[/url]
*begins making notes for the I-18/GR trailer*
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
So the new "Doppelgangers" what's up with that? I mean I can already make a claws/regen stalker via the Mission AE, or are they going make it so that even enhancements and such are carried over, and can we finally have EATS and VEATS in missions?