Discussion: Introducing Issue 18: Shades of Gray!
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2010-07-08 11:01 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
It looks interesting, but "Shades of Gray" is the worst name of an issue to date.
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The way it sounds though that you run these tip/pseudo paper missions and when you hit the limit to run the morality mission (5/10/25?), you can't even run the morality mission unless you purchase GR (the morality mission is probably something like a soloable mini TF/arc that when you finish it you become the new alignment).|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Yes that is the way I read it. So these "tip" missions are effectively paper missions, but upon the 5th (or w/e) one instead of robbing a bank you get to run a morality mission.
I guess if the wheel already works, no need to reinvent it... COP is a nice addition, good to see all that previously completed work put back in to the game. Of course i18 was going to be bleak and it is. Here's hoping the GR feature list is huge, which is going to be a lot of content to jam in to 1-20. The disappointment meter is climbing. |
I think that 95-97% of the actual additional content for the game will reside in the expansion.
Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx
The Cape Radio
"It's good to have friends. Wish I did." - Troy Hickman
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I wouldn't call AE an issue tied to a physical box but rather the other way around as there was no benefit in buying the box if you already had a subscription.|
Originally Posted by Pheonyx
You're right... I14; that's what I get for keying in numbers on the keypad.
Ashes to ashes, Pheonyx |
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Yes that is the way I read it. So these "tip" missions are effectively paper missions, but upon the 5th (or w/e) one instead of robbing a bank you get to run a morality mission.
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Tips System The Tips System gives players a new way to find missions. During play, foes Level 20 or higher may drop notes or clues, or offer information. These Tips start new mission arcs, allowing characters to face new opponents and challenges |
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*Ouch* That means I cannot switch my alignment at will - only when a series of random drops finally gives me the ability to do so.|
Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
Customers who do not choose to upgrade with the Going Rogue expansion will be able to do "Tip" missions, but will not be able to switch their alignments.
As mentioned in the ViDoc videos, characters have to do a number of "Tip" missions before they can get a "Morality" mission. The "Morality" mission is the determining mission that changes your alignment, and is only available to players who purchase the Going Rogue expansion. |
That is Not Fun.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
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I'd imagine that if this was the only way to move your alignment, and it was rare enough to be worth complaining about, then it's probably been brought up and been/being dealt with in closed beta.
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Originally Posted by Doc_Scorpion
*Ouch* That means I cannot switch my alignment at will - only when a series of random drops finally gives me the ability to do so.
That is Not Fun. |
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The problem is that the AE stuff was the core focus of the marketing of the physical purchase, yet it was given away free regardless.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
I wouldn't call AE an issue tied to a physical box but rather the other way around as there was no benefit in buying the box if you already had a subscription.
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This isn't a dev problem... it's a marketing problem; I14 they basically gave away the big focus of the devs' hard work to the masses without relying on the purchase, thus costing sales. Marketing has now gone the polar opposite; giving practically nothing for free and force you to play twice as much (GR box is $40, AE box was $20) because they'll be bringing in MORE money. It's like the Marketing department can't make up their mind or even find a happy medium.
Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx
The Cape Radio
"It's good to have friends. Wish I did." - Troy Hickman
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I dunno. If you didn't buy COV, then i6 offered very little for COH players. I think it was the PVP zones and that was it. i18 will bring about a lot more stuff even if you don't get GR, especially since there's only one "niche" bit of content (CoP) while the rest is more or less for everyone.|
Originally Posted by Pheonyx
As for those free Issues tied to physical products, the scale right now is this in terms of content:
I6 > I14 > I18 |
Also, since i14 didn't require the Architect Edition, so I don't think its necessarily a good comparison. You got everything i14 had to offer. i6 and i18 have both a free update portion and their premium portions (gated by purchase, at least initially).
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Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
*begins making notes for the I-18/GR trailer*
Michelle aka Samuraiko/Dark_Respite |
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Originally Posted by Doc_Scorpion
*Ouch* That means I cannot switch my alignment at will - only when a series of random drops finally gives me the ability to do so.
That is Not Fun. |
I'm thinking that the Tip missions are to help accrue points towards a change if you want to, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are regular missions that will let you make the switch.
For instance, I wouldn't be surprised if Leonard Silmon's arc would be an example of that...
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It means that you cannot switch alignments until you drop $30-$40 for GR... if you already have pre-purchased or buy the physical disc, you'll be able to use the full system (which Tip missions sound a part of, but not the whole thing) and switch alignments.|
Originally Posted by Doc_Scorpion
*Ouch* That means I cannot switch my alignment at will - only when a series of random drops finally gives me the ability to do so.
That is Not Fun. |
Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx
The Cape Radio
"It's good to have friends. Wish I did." - Troy Hickman
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i14/Architect Edition was just an improved retail box. I didn't buy it, but I'm assuming it had an updated installer, plus it also had the Mac version on disc (I bought it for a friend of mine just because of that). Likewise, it did come with a goodie (free Cyborg or Magic booster) and 30-days of playtime so it was actually a good buy for existing players. I bought the GVE box for similar reasons. On top of that its a newer retail box to keep the game on shelves and looking fresh plus advertising new features of the game (retail boxes are basically advertising for a product),|
Originally Posted by Pheonyx
The problem is that the AE stuff was the core focus of the marketing of the physical purchase, yet it was given away free regardless.
This isn't a dev problem... it's a marketing problem; I14 they basically gave away the big focus of the devs' hard work to the masses without relying on the purchase, thus costing sales. Marketing has now gone the polar opposite; giving practically nothing for free and force you to play twice as much (GR box is $40, AE box was $20) because they'll be bringing in MORE money. It's like the Marketing department can't make up their mind or even find a happy medium. Ashes to ashes, Pheonyx |
The GR box is intended to be a good starting point for new players, and likewise provides a nice value for existing players. COH/COV plus 30 days of gametime ($15 if nothing else), GR ($30 if bought ala cart), plus the goodie booster (how much was that again?) and updated discs. Having it "all-in-one" like that is smart since new players only need to buy one thing - no searching for a regular COH/COV box plus picking up GR. Likewise, for only $10 more than buying GR only, existing players get gametime, discs and a goodie pack.
I think they're being pretty smart about it, myself.
edit: I strongly suspect GR would not have happened as a single free expansion. It seems like its way too big with too much work behind it. Having all that content and such gated behind a paid expansion makes sense to me - it lets them make something significantly larger than a single update (easily equal to several, methinks) and have it pay for itself.
I love you guys!!
Always have a little (big) surprise for us... You cool bastages!
The new CoP could be really interesting.
I think it is great to have some different forms of fun to be had... and a potential (up to) 24 person team trial could be a lot of fun and a change of pace.
It could very well work out to be sort of like the Rikti Mother Ship Raids and the Hamidon Raid and such... and (While some may not like that) I think that is a cool thing.
Always add different options and outlets for differing brands of fun.
The Tip Missions sound like a nice addition. I don't even care that they can lead to morality missions (I mean, that is great too, but even without, it's nice to see). I also took the "perhaps... possibly" to mean exactly what it means, so no re-wording needed as far as I am concerned.
Great job, Team! 
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Hah!! |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
"Shades of Gray"
You heard it here folks, Warshades can customize their powers to gray! |
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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
And here I was hoping to see the new costume bits and emotes in the screenshots. Oh well!
Thanks, devs! Can't wait for Issue 18! |
You can see some new costume bits in there
Some (If not all) we've seen in pictures already... but it is still nice to see more.
Pic 5 has some variety lined up for us to see.
Looks like some rather sleek options. I like those boots on the lady in blue, second from the left.
But yeah... want to see more! And definitely want to see the emotes!
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Originally Posted by SuperFerret
I don't like it.
"Grey" has always been my preferred spelling. |
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
This is cool and all, and I'm happy about more new content, but...
...what about the bugs from I17 that are still around?
*cries tears of happiness*
** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************
Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.
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wait.... are those piston gloves? me want |
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I love you guys!!
Always have a little (big) surprise for us... You cool bastages! The new CoP could be really interesting. I think it is great to have some different forms of fun to be had... and a potential (up to) 24 person team trial could be a lot of fun and a change of pace. It could very well work out to be sort of like the Rikti Mother Ship Raids and the Hamidon Raid and such... and (While some may not like that) I think that is a cool thing. Always add different options and outlets for differing brands of fun. The Tip Missions sound like a nice addition. I don't even care that they can lead to morality missions (I mean, that is great too, but even without, it's nice to see). I also took the "perhaps... possibly" to mean exactly what it means, so no re-wording needed as far as I am concerned. Great job, Team! Hah!! This is always what I look for first as well, hehe! You can see some new costume bits in there Some (If not all) we've seen in pictures already... but it is still nice to see more. Pic 5 has some variety lined up for us to see. Looks like some rather sleek options. I like those boots on the lady in blue, second from the left. But yeah... want to see more! And definitely want to see the emotes! Haha... Indeed! This is my only complaint about this Issue. |
also the other costume poeces thrown about that picture look pretty nifty as well
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Good stuff. Expand this into ambiently highlighted pedestrians (non-morality type stuff) and we're gravy.
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Tips System The Tips System gives players a new way to find missions. During play, foes Level 20 or higher may drop notes or clues, or offer information. These Tips start new mission arcs, allowing characters to face new opponents and challenges. |
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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However, they could have made the Architect system only available through buying the Architect Edition and left everything else for the free release... if they weren't trying to lure back previous players with I14, why did they have a reactivation/Double XP weekend a few weeks after release? Since AE was given free to everyone, even if AE DID bring them back to the game they didn't have to pay anything to get it... in other words a guaranteed lost $20 by not forcing the purchase like they are doing with GR. |
Originally Posted by Psyte
i14/Architect Edition was just an improved retail box. I didn't buy it, but I'm assuming it had an updated installer, plus it also had the Mac version on disc (I bought it for a friend of mine just because of that). Likewise, it did come with a goodie (free Cyborg or Magic booster) and 30-days of playtime so it was actually a good buy for existing players. I bought the GVE box for similar reasons. On top of that its a newer retail box to keep the game on shelves and looking fresh plus advertising new features of the game (retail boxes are basically advertising for a product)
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The GR box is intended to be a good starting point for new players, and likewise provides a nice value for existing players. COH/COV plus 30 days of gametime ($15 if nothing else), GR ($30 if bought ala cart), plus the goodie booster (how much was that again?) and updated discs. Having it "all-in-one" like that is smart since new players only need to buy one thing - no searching for a regular COH/COV box plus picking up GR. Likewise, for only $10 more than buying GR only, existing players get gametime, discs and a goodie pack. I think they're being pretty smart about it, myself. edit: I strongly suspect GR would not have happened as a single free expansion. It seems like its way too big with too much work behind it. Having all that content and such gated behind a paid expansion makes sense to me - it lets them make something significantly larger than a single update (easily equal to several, methinks) and have it pay for itself. |
Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx
The Cape Radio
"It's good to have friends. Wish I did." - Troy Hickman
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You're missing the point of the AE edition of the game. The Architect Edition was not ever labeled as an expansion, like Going Rogue is. It was solely an updated game disc (which was sorely needed) and happened to coincide with the AE system being added into the game. AE was originally supposed to be part of a larger free Issue, but they decided to pull it separate from the rest and put it out early. AE is not an expansion. All of the content of Going Rogue, however (not I18), IS a paid expansion, and is being marketed as such, and therefore requires a higher (though not much if you don't buy the Collector's Edition) price point. AE Edition sold you something you already had, outside of the free booster pack code and the free month of game play. Going Rogue has nothing but content that isn't in the game, and can't be played unless you buy the expansion.|
Originally Posted by Pheonyx
However, they could have made the Architect system only available through buying the Architect Edition and left everything else for the free release... if they weren't trying to lure back previous players with I14, why did they have a reactivation/Double XP weekend a few weeks after release? Since AE was given free to everyone, even if AE DID bring them back to the game they didn't have to pay anything to get it... in other words a guaranteed lost $20 by not forcing the purchase like they are doing with GR.
And the Architect Edition wasn't a good starting point, since it had CoH, CoV plus the touted Architect mission creation system as well as HALF THE PRICE POINT OF GOING ROGUE?!? If Marketing is "being smart" with Going Rogue, when it came to Architect Edition then Marketing was "being not smart". Ashes to ashes, Pheonyx |
If they made people pay extra for AE just to be able to use it, it would never have worked. It was a relatively untested system and it would have been dumb for marketing to make us pay to field test it, which is what we've been doing since its release.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
I think at this point I'll have to agree to disagree.
I feel that the Architect Edition was simply an updated retail box. i14/AE was never promoted as an expansion. Certainly, while I think the AE is great, i14 did not have anything resembling enough content in it to be worth the cost of an expansion (at least in my eyes). Even if you coupled i13 and i14 I don't think I would have paid for it seperately from my subscription. As-is I only use it when my friends want to run arcs/missions that they've made or I want to try the new Guest Author arcs.
Some folks cry "money-grab" with the costume packs. I'd hate to see how the AE being paid-for would've turned out, PR-wise.
I feel that Going Rogue offers a substantial update with what's looking to be a good amount of new content and new systems- even if its spread out between i17's Ultra Mode (I'm happy that came out early), GR and i19 bringing the remaining nine Incarnate levels (similar to COV and i7). Not, its not COV in its scope of content (1-40, new AT's, etc), but given its pricing ($30 ala cart, $40 for everything), I'm okay with that. Hell, I already bought Going Rogue, so I'm not going to get all the extras I mentioned the retail folks are going to be getting
Tips Redux
In order to switch alignment, you need to do a Morality/Alignment Switching Mission. Doing Tip-Missions unlocks that Morality/Alignment Switching Mission.
With I18, you get access to Tip-Missions at no extra cost. However, you have to purchase Going Rogue as well as doing Tip Missions to unlock the Morality/Alignment Switching Mission
Tips drop from defeating level 20+ foes. Drop rate is unknown. The number of Tip missions is unknown. But, it *is* new *content* for 'free.'
CoP Redux
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Is there any guidance on how many people are needed for this mission ? Is it expected to take the full twenty four ? Possible but really difficult for a single team of 8 ? Does it scale by multiple simultaneous click items ?
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Originally Posted by Decorum
UP TO 24 people. That means it's a maximum. We have no idea what the minimum is.
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Originally Posted by Nericus
I'd hazard a guess that 6 to 8 is the minimum.
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The mission is balanced around 24 somewhat competent players with SOs. If you go with less than that, they better be able to pull their weight. Though, Shivans and Nukes might make up for lack of numbers.
In the original, each obelisk had a big spawn of Rularuu which was constantly respawning if you didn't move fast enough. Also, the GM is guarded by three constantly spawning Rularuu spawn points (the big floaty boxes).
It is unknown if I18 will allow folks to start the Trial outside a base, but, I'd start now to make sure my base had a Mission Computer and Trial Teleporter, which, isn't too difficult to do... I have them in my solo base on both sides.
You'd only need 3 people (the team leaders) to belong to the base to form the three teams. Just make sure your base options are set to allow the teammates of members to enter.
Doppelgangers
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Originally Posted by Anarchist_Kitten
So the new "Doppelgangers" what's up with that? I mean I can already make a claws/regen stalker via the Mission AE, or are they going make it so that even enhancements and such are carried over, and can we finally have EATS and VEATS in missions?
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I'm assuming the players who create the MA Missions will now have access to the same or similar tools as the Devs in creating "Doppelgangers."
See here: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Doppelgangers
Grey!
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Originally Posted by SuperFerret
I don't like it.
"Grey" has always been my preferred spelling. |
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
[QUOTE=Sardan;3014284]Ghost Falcon just posted on this. The devs are not actively working on base raids. They have previously mentioned there are things they want to fix in PvP to get base raids going, so I think it's safe to surmise they're not actively working on PvP either.
whatever you want to think but Ill think in the positive to make me stay in this game!
Since Tip missions are level 20 and higher can we all take a guess to the fact that this is side switching for level 20 and up? Instead of going to Praetoria and going down to level 1 we can stay in Paragon or Rogue Isles and do the tip missions to side switch?
this is how I analyze it...and tip missions fill a meter for a morality mission.
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
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Funny, I saw them right off the bat.
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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
And here I was hoping to see the new costume bits and emotes in the screenshots. Oh well!
Thanks, devs! Can't wait for Issue 18! |
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
now will all of the players have to be a member of the same SG for the new cathedral of pain? I completely missed out because by the time that it was briefly live my once active(8-10 active players) was down to me and my alts.
On Justice
Global @Desi Nova Twitter: @desi_nova Steam: Desi_nova. I don't do Xbox or PS3
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Originally Posted by Starcloud
.. Does Rularuu have a Rularuu-ized Weighted Companion Cube?!
No wonder he's insane. He should have euthanized it long ago. |
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Originally Posted by PsychoPez
Yes, but not as fast as I euthanized mine. I'm euthanized my cube faster than any other test subject on record.
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An intubation associate will be dispatched to revive Rularuu with peptic salve and
adrenaline.
((Can anyone think of anything cool for the Portal Corp. to invent for Paragon City/Rogues Isles? Some sort of portable portal perhaps? Anyone else want one of these?))
[QUOTE=Shadow Wail;3015034]
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...58#post3013858|
Originally Posted by Sardan
Ghost Falcon just posted on this. The devs are not actively working on base raids. They have previously mentioned there are things they want to fix in PvP to get base raids going, so I think it's safe to surmise they're not actively working on PvP either.
whatever you want to think but Ill think in the positive to make me stay in this game! |
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Hey folks, With the release of the "Issue 18: Overview" today, I wanted to address some questions that would naturally arise within the PvP community regarding the return of the Cathedral of Pain. Previously the Cathedral of Pain was used to acquire Items of Power which were instrumental in Base Raiding. The initial implementation of the CoP was exploitable and ultimately removed. We have always wanted to revisit the CoP and return it to something players could participate in, and with Issue 18 we will be doing just that. The new implementation of the Cathedral of Pain gives the choice of a number of rewards to players, but it does not contain Items of Power. Base Raiding is currently on hold and not being actively worked on. We understand that this may disappoint some of you in the PvP community, but we wanted to tell it to you straight to minimize any confusion or false hope that Base Raiding would be addressed in this new iteration of the Cathedral of Pain. Thanks, Ghost Falcon |
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Originally Posted by Desi_Nova
now will all of the players have to be a member of the same SG for the new cathedral of pain? I completely missed out because by the time that it was briefly live my once active(8-10 active players) was down to me and my alts.
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Since you've been able to invite other folks to a base of yours for a while now, I assume you can join others at their base for a CoP mish. If not, we'll have to start bugging the devs for this feature ASAP.
Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx
The Cape Radio
"It's good to have friends. Wish I did." - Troy Hickman