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There are a lack of posts by the rednames in all the sections of the forum lately, suspect they are pretty busy with GR.|
Originally Posted by SinergyX_NA
Apart from the initial post on this topic, do rednames ever post in this section of the forum? Or ever reply to a post?
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Although it's maketing and NCSoft that really hold the answers, we can only post here as this is our only real point of contact.
Anyway, I'm not really sure what the devs can add to the above, clearly nothing is gonna happen soon (if at all), they seem unable to even give a vague expectation, which could end up being either good or bad news in the long run.
As customers I feel we should be at least given an expectation, however if they are unwilling (or unable) to do so, I guess there's not much we can do.
My deviantART page (warning some images nsfw)
GGRRR Comic Series GGRRR Comics on Facebook
Really the Devs can't add anything until the marketing demons decide whether its something they can go ahead with. My hope would be to adding a EU only booster, but then I gather than Aussie players on US, or people unable to get to a store would demand the same thing on US servers, which would then make it not so special anyway.
The worst thing is, since the game files on US and EU servers have ot be the same, these things are gonna be on our servers, just not accessable.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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The chances of us seeing anything on this matter before Going Rogue I measure as next to nothing. Until that baby hits, I reckon all efforts are being poured into making sure GR is a success. In the meantime, were on our own. Which means making our own teams, our own events, as suggested in the When GR hits
thread.
As for action, I reckon as customers weve got three choices:
1) Quit the game altogether
2) Keep playing and put up with it
3) Sigh with resignation, say goodbye to the time, money and love weve invested in our EU characters and go and buy up NA accounts.
None of the above appeal. And so I have decided to go with the fourth option: Keep Vocal.
One of the great things about this game/community, is that we have access to the Devs through these forums. In my experience of MMOs, thats fairly unique. And so I reckon we need to keep talking about this issue, keep it present in peoples minds. As Ive said before, I reckon any radical decisions regarding the future of the EU servers will be made by someone far away from the Developers and these forums. But by keeping the issue out there, it gets noticed. Not just by us, but by the community, by the Devs, by anyone thats passing. We might not get many redname posts, especially now due to GR but I do believe they read these forums at the very least.
We may end up sounding like a broken record after a while but I dont think that should stop us from highlighting key differences between the NA and EU experience especially when it contributes to the gap between us and our cousins. Lets remain polite, constructive but persistent and unafraid to shout out when something stinks. 
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
Now seems like a good time to chime in with this then:
I was doing cleaning of some bookmarks in my browser, checking what's still valid and resorting the ever-expanding list, deleting the dead or unappplicable ones when I came across this one - http://insomnia.ac/commentary/pc_game_piracy/
Now while the article is a focus on piracy I got to two paragraphs, 15 and 17 if I counted right, about a management sim called Eastside Hockey Manager (NHL licensed, published by Sega) which suffered "due to piracy" and several red flags flashed up in my head when I read this bit:
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And this:|
Originally Posted by 15
And yet, both the developers and the representative from SEGA (who published the game) claim that theyre satisfied with their marketing effort:
Im satisfied (as were SI who approved all marketing activity) that the campaigns were well designed and targeted as many people who were likely to get involved in playing the game as we could possibly reach. |
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Originally Posted by 17
This is a prime example of the piracy discussions main hurdle: the game wasnt specifically killed by piracy, it was killed by not selling well due to any number of extremely poor decisions on the part of both the developer and the publisher. And, as usual, the developers cant tell the difference between the two. In response to all the posts pointing out the above, the devs in this case go so far into denial that they start bringing up the fact that previous entries in the franchise were pirated, with vague implications that this, too, had a hand in killing the 2007 version. The reality, on the other hand, is simply that the game had large licensing costs (several real-world leagues), a joke of an ad campaign which epically failed to reach its core demographic, and had no compensatory shelf presence (it was an online download only, and not even through Steam).
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To me it was always a mistake to have a download-only version of a US-only boxed edition. It never made sense and still doesn't now. It's digital-only so why does it remain fixed on one issue? Why wasn't it updated to Issue 15, 16 and the latest 17? So 18 and Going Rogue will sort that out but what happens when 19 swoops round? Or 20 and 21? If marketing something is to make me want to buy it then it should show the latest issues. It's a single picture update on the site and a change of the text entry. Not as if there's any special issue 14 only gift that comes with it. It's just the same as the regualr CoH and CoV choices but with a booster code to pick one of the packs as an extra.
As an aside: I just checked the plaync.com website (without logging in) and was directed to the US side of things again with Issue 13!! being the first video on show. Fan-tastic.
The shelf presense - I decided one week to go into my local Game and see which MMOs I could get in there. Surprised only by the lack of Champions discs I saw WoW taking up pride and place on the PC chart, a regular box right next to the expansion. If I was looking-to-buy then I could be sold on it being there.
I can re-iterate that we want a physical presense but I won't waste the time arguing since it's already been decided at this point. But what I will argue is that I've heard of many tales of discs being found or dropped in someone's lap. Hell I even bought the Matrix Online disc because it was there. I'd been turned off it, mainly because of subscription phobia but having the disc on a shelf hooked me into it for a little while. Yes, the Matrix had me
So the main arguement is that it costs to make different versions of the game and distribute them. Well I can understand the distribution aspect but the versions? Well they've been doing it for years; the disc is the same game, wherever you are in Europe so put as little detail as possible on it, English, German and French since those are the only server languages, keep the details short on the outside and there you go; one edition for your three main language bases. Third-party publishers did it for years in the 80s and early 90s during the catridge years.
Which brings me to the last one - Marketing. Here's the sum total of EU marketing over the past 3 or 4 years to my knowledge: a trial cover disc and a one-page advert in a PC magazine. So why have they suddenly changed their tune now?
Story time: for those that don't know Mother's Love, now former player, tried in vain to setup a City merchandise shop over here. Basically it was like one of those cafepress things and it was a fantastic idea. Needless to say this idea hit several roadblocks until finally a legal threat forced the idea out for good. And that was pretty sad given how much work had only been done in getting the looks right. There was also a very uncharacteristic rant at NCSoft in 2007 which centered around Guild Wars having merchandise and City lacking it (and again Guild Wars had shelf presense on its side due to its setup).
Now we're told that there is a campaign in the works but if it's online only then I'll say what I said about Issue 14; that sucks. I hope that's not the only thing though. Marketing has been one of the banes of the European version and needs a good kick-start. But then our marketing department probably consists of room with a picture of a market stall in it.
Now I need to sleep.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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It was in this time period (not long after Good vs Evil launched) that a magazine (PC Gamer iirc) had an issue with a complete boxset of CoH or CoV on the cover. |
Originally Posted by Tyger
Which brings me to the last one - Marketing. Here's the sum total of EU marketing over the past 3 or 4 years to my knowledge: a trial cover disc and a one-page advert in a PC magazine.
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Pretty sure both games were used, though I only saw copies with CoV on the cover in the shops.
It looked like a good way to get rid of surplus stock of the old boxes, being more than just a trial.
Still not much overall - but worth adding to the marketing tally.
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)
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Good points Tyger. I recall the above incident well and I was appalled at how someone who was passionate about the game and wanted to contribute to its marketing was so viciously stomped on when their own merchandising ideas far outstripped anything NCSoft has attempted to do in the EU. I completely understand how the legal side of things made such a venture difficult but come on, if someone's virtually begging to promote the game, is this the way to treat them? |
Originally Posted by Tyger
Story time: for those that don't know Mother's Love, now former player, tried in vain to setup a City merchandise shop over here. Basically it was like one of those cafepress things and it was a fantastic idea. Needless to say this idea hit several roadblocks until finally a legal threat forced the idea out for good. And that was pretty sad given how much work had only been done in getting the looks right. There was also a very uncharacteristic rant at NCSoft in 2007 which centered around Guild Wars having merchandise and City lacking it (and again Guild Wars had shelf presense on its side due to its setup).
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I always remember this whenever anyone says "It's up to us to promote the game" and I could have forgiven if there had been any attempts to market in Europe since. But I think we all know just how much of that there has been and it's a word that rhymes with 'Hero'.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
To pick up Guild Wars, with the soon comming Guild Wars 2, if i was NCsoft i would serious put my money on Guild wars 2, rather then spending money advertising CoH in Europe.
Even Nightfall and Eye of the North in stores were a huge succes, dispite they have a huge digital store availability (ingame actualy). What does Guild Wars have, that CoH never had? I mean, i own all Collector Editions of Guild Wars, bought in the local stores. So they have ways to get the boxes around Europe (Prophecies i actualy bought in Belgium), and yet they never spend a single effort on doing so for CoH. (apart from a few boxes i've seen in my life).
Aion was nothing different, in stores they were huge available, again with pre-order and Collector Editions. Hell, even Tabula Rasa was quite present in gamestores.
Based on the languages of the client/server, seems they only focus on the most west/northen part of Europe (UK/France/German - with Netherlands/Belgium as wildcards), distribution within those 5 countries wouldnt be that hard to do?
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Except other than a cease and desist we don't know how ML was treated. She was more than happy to screech like a wounded Harpy over the bloody thing, but always cited 'privacy' - or variations thereof - when asked to share the exchanges between herself and the marketing department. It's a legal minefield for fans to sell unlicened merchandise, so I don't know why the heck people are so quick to admonish the company for that specific moment.
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Originally Posted by Dante
I completely understand how the legal side of things made such a venture difficult but come on, if someone's virtually begging to promote the game, is this the way to treat them?
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Fair enough, we don't and probably never will know the ins and outs. But I remember watching him go from being passionate about marketing the game to an overt critic of NCSoft's failure to advertise. Given this, I somehow doubt it was a happy happy joy joy exchange. |
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy
Except other than a cease and desist we don't know how ML was treated. She was more than happy to screech like a wounded Harpy over the bloody thing, but always cited 'privacy' - or variations thereof - when asked to share the exchanges between herself and the marketing department. It's a legal minefield for fans to sell unlicened merchandise, so I don't know why the heck people are so quick to admonish the company for that specific moment.
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And if anyone can point me to something that NCSoft have done to promote the game in Europe to the same extent that ML was suggesting, I'd love to see it.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
Wasn't Mother's Love a he?
The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games
I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
@Lyrik
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Was and still are, even though not present in the game now, sadly.
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Originally Posted by Lyrik
Wasn't Mother's Love a he?
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Yeah, well I didn't really assume that he changed his gender when he stopped playing |
Originally Posted by Crim_Fletch
Was and still are, even though not present in the game now, sadly.
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But yes, it's sad he doesn't play anymore.
The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games
I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
@Lyrik
Quote:
Lost to Champions Online last I heard. I'm hoping that GR might lure him back along with some of our other missing heroes. |
Originally Posted by Lyrik
Yeah, well I didn't really assume that he changed his gender when he stopped playing
But yes, it's sad he doesn't play anymore. |
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
Someone mention my friend Simon?
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The art mentioned is linked in my sig |
Originally Posted by Mothers Love via email (Sunday 20th June 2010)
Hello there Coolio,
Good to hear from you again!, and thanks for the linkypoos. I am aware of the 'Going Rogue in Europe' thread as I do like to get my weekly lurk in on the CoH forums. I've got to say, while I am looking forward to both Going Rogue and Issue 19, I do find myself joining you in the community's concern over the European servers, the decline in EU online population numbers, possible server merges, NA accounts and the lack of marketing / shelf presence this side of the pond. It would be nice to see the Devs addressing what seems to be a fair majority of concerned EU-subscribers. On leaving best part of a year ago, EU server population was not particularly a problem and numbers on both Union and Defiant were quite respectable. Now, because answers have not been particularly forthcoming re: any cross-server teaming tech that would allow the lifeblood of CoH (teaming) to keep flowing EU-side, I'm starting to wonder myself when (or if) the Devs are ever going to officially state their intentions on this. Some want an EU-server merge, some want a NA-transfer option with all their hard work and priviledges re:toon & SG stats carried over, but a concensus is going to have to be reached at some point with more competition being released Nov' 2010 because you can bet they're going have boxed shelf-presence and more marketing than you can shake a stick at. I'm not hearing particularly hopeful noises coming from the CoH Vets joining CO, but i've still got my fingers crossed. Heres hoping Melissa & Co pull off something incredible with GR/I:19 and CoH is still relevant a year and more from now. I'd love to see a real revitalising rebirth in EU subscriptions for CoH. Btw, Nice work with the texture graphic art!, you've been busy! ..... heheh, and I can't believe you have that many toons! - *laughs* - well, actually I do, but you are completely and hopelessly insane in that fantastic lovable way only CoH veterans are!. Take care and hope to see you in what I'm hoping is a thriving Paragon City later on this summer. Kind Regards, Mumsie. |
And MY PoV on the server situ is:
Regarding CoH EU/NA, personally Id like to see:
4 Locked servers appear NA side named the same as our EU ones.
A full EU data dump to these 4 NA servers.
A redirect of our updater to the 4 new locked NA servers.
(NA normal servers still locked out to EU but listed )
The EU (Original) servers Locked to all.
The unlocking of the EU now NA 4 servers to the NA.
And the NA servers to the EU (Now NA) Players.
It would mean that NC only needed to make 1 set of game codes for CoH
And NA boxes and codes would be compatible!!!
As my sig also says:
Nuff Said...
Coolio Wolfus leader of Coolio�s Crusaders on Union.
Tekna Logik leader of Tekna�s Tormentors on Defiant.
Creator of: Coolio's Tech Beacon Replacements
AE arc 402506, 'The Rise and Demise or Otherwise of Tekna Logik...'.
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4 Locked servers appear NA side named the same as our EU ones. A full EU data dump to these 4 NA servers. A redirect of our updater to the 4 new locked NA servers. (NA normal servers still locked out to EU but listed ) The EU (Original) servers Locked to all. The unlocking of the EU now NA 4 servers to the NA. And the NA servers to the EU (Now NA) Players. |
wouldnt it be easier to say a server list merge?
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Erm... NO!|
Originally Posted by EU_Damz
wouldnt it be easier to say a server list merge? |
A server list merge denotes the listings being joined.
I'm suggesting moving the whole EU server block over to the US (NA) as a full data dump x-fer.
Additionally this would x-fer all EU toons, sg's, etc.
And it would switch us all to 1 set of codes and make the lone EU PTS (Test Server) and the original 4 EU servers redundant thereby allowing for their removal, and saving money for Paragon Studios/NC.
We could then get a boxed version as it would be the same as the NA version, yes they would need to allow for the current EU updaters language options, but I'm sure there are French and French Canadians who would play together, not forgetting our German 'allies'
.
Nuff Said...
Coolio Wolfus leader of Coolio�s Crusaders on Union.
Tekna Logik leader of Tekna�s Tormentors on Defiant.
Creator of: Coolio's Tech Beacon Replacements
AE arc 402506, 'The Rise and Demise or Otherwise of Tekna Logik...'.
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Yet without context ML just came off as a relentless troll, throwing toys out of the pram because he wasn't able to get what he wanted. I don't buy into the whole "we wuz abused!!" mindset under those circumstances tbh.
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Originally Posted by Dante
But I remember watching him go from being passionate about marketing the game to an overt critic of NCSoft's failure to advertise. Given this, I somehow doubt it was a happy happy joy joy exchange.
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When I posted something on the board there a few months ago I got a reply from Mothers Love and several other Unionites. They will be back with Going Rogue.|
Originally Posted by Dante
Lost to Champions Online last I heard. I'm hoping that GR might lure him back along with some of our other missing heroes.
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Just biding time waiting for new content.
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
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Mothers Love is comming back |
Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
When I posted something on the board there a few months ago I got a reply from Mothers Love and several other Unionites. They will be back with Going Rogue.
Just biding time waiting for new content. |
... That just made Going Rogue even better !I miss her.
@Drowning Samurai
Currently playing
The Drowning Samurai (Villains)
Sugar Calavera (Hero)
It gets better...
MARKET MERGE! (FAQ)
And
GR Release Date: August 17th
And
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Originally Posted by Coolio
Someone mention my friend Simon?
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As my sig also says: |
Nuff Said...
Coolio Wolfus leader of Coolio�s Crusaders on Union.
Tekna Logik leader of Tekna�s Tormentors on Defiant.
Creator of: Coolio's Tech Beacon Replacements
AE arc 402506, 'The Rise and Demise or Otherwise of Tekna Logik...'.
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This is why context is important.
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Originally Posted by poptart_fairy
Yet without context ML just came off as a relentless troll, throwing toys out of the pram because he wasn't able to get what he wanted. I don't buy into the whole "we wuz abused!!" mindset under those circumstances tbh.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Awesome news! |
Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
When I posted something on the board there a few months ago I got a reply from Mothers Love and several other Unionites. They will be back with Going Rogue.
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Let's make them feel welcome and make them aware of this thread too:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=224817
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
bit dissapointed with this post
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...09#post2969709
it takes you the the AMD games page
http://sites.amd.com/us/game/games/P...ing-rogue.aspx
but no mention that there is a EU version of the game so....... is it going to carry on like this no dev replys as of late with the big announcments you think they would have SOME info for us.
Yeah. Starting to loose a little faith here.
The fact they won't even sell us that preorder bonus is even more annoying.
[CENTER]Euro side: [B]@Orion Star[/B] & [B]@Orions Star[/B][/CENTER]
Apart from the initial post on this topic, do rednames ever post in this section of the forum? Or ever reply to a post?