So when do you decide "It's a keeper"?
By
Acyl,
Posted on: 2010-05-20 14:33 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Around my mid-20s is when I make an honest assessment. Pre-SOs and pre-Stamina, it's hard to really appreciate what a toon is capable of. Only once I've got those in place do I begin to wonder whether I really enjoy a toon or not.
The other thing that'll keep me going is concept. If it's a strong character concept and I've got a good team backing me up, I'll often persevere. Either that or knowing that there is a key power that gels everything together. I hated my Kin/Ice at first but kept going until Fulcrum Shift and now I love it.
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I'm a toon hoarder. I've got a few toons languishing in the teens that I just can't bring myself to delete. I took advantage of the recent free server transfers to move a few of them off my home server though.
I don't think I can ever bring myself to delete a character after I ended up picking up my level 15Inv/SS Tanker after a couple years, actually learned to play him (after a much-needed respec), and got him to 50 pretty quickly. The only exception I might make is if the toon is lower than level 10. If I've only invested a few hours in the toon and I'm not getting much out of them, then I'll save the costume, free the slot and maybe reroll at a later date.
And yeah, concept often keeps me going on a toon. That was certainly the case with the aforementioned Inv/SS.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Generally speaking, SO levels. 22 is a magical time.
However, I have deleted characters as late as level 33. If I were ever dissatisfied with one even later than that I'd have zero problem deleting them too, although that hasn't yet occurred. They don't die forever though, they're reborn as something else. I'm a concept player, and care not one iota for collecting 50s, so if I decide a character works better as something else, like when a new set comes out and it fits, or I simply decide they'd work better as another AT, they get rerolled.
The one who made 33 was a Dark/Elec Defender. I finally decided I hated Electric Blast and rerolled her as a Dark/Rad. Her attacks were not crucial to her concept, just Dark, and I like Rad better. (No offense to those who like Elec, glad it works out for ya, think of it as less competition.)
Had a Claws/Dark Scrapper who made 32 before I decided Dark Armor and I just weren't going to see eye to eye. Rerolled her as a Elec/Shield Scrapper, which thanks to Power Customization could now be colored blood red, good for a vampire.
I have a huge problem with deleting my toons too early. I judge them before they're even level 14, and I end up deleting the vast majority of the characters I make.
I think the problem is I don't have the patience to put 10+ hours into a character to THEN decide if I like the character or not.
Once they hit 20 they are pretty good to stay.
Maybe I'm just really sentimental but I rarely, rarely delete any toon.
The 3rd toon I rolled was a Invul/SS tank
He got to level 2 and was shelved. When I found out I disliked not doing damage.
He hasn't been logged in in well over 4 years. Won't delete him though because he's got a great concept and well... He represents my
'innocence' with the game.
I've got severe Altitis. Therefor, I'm generally playing 3 or 4 toons in phases.
Right now I'm working on a new scrapper a Brute and a MM.
Just depends on what I'm in the mood for at the moment.
So it's not uncommon for me to roll up a toon, get to level 5 and then not return to them for months. They sit and wait.
I only delete when I have no choice
Virtue and Infinity are my servers of choice and they are full.
I'll delete only when I hate the combo/concept. Even then it's only if they are below level 20.
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Generally speaking, I don't delete characters. I don't see the need to. If I thought it was a good idea to roll it, it's a good idea to keep it. I've deleted four characters in all the time I've played. Two of those were moving the character from one server to another and back, and the other two were deleted because I ran out of slots and wanted to make a specific character. All four cases were well before server transfers or additional character slots were available. Since then, not a single character has been deleted nor will one be.
So for me, it's a keeper the moment the concept meshes in my head and I create the character.
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Once they hit 50, they stay there and the second stage of character progression begins: Inventions. I don't usually IO before then and everything I have fully IO'd out instantly becomes that much more fun for me to play, making it very hard for me to delete.
I think I've deleted two mid-30's characters over my 6 year stay. Both of them Blasters, one of them Ice/Ice and the other Ice/Electricity. Generally when they get to the mid 30's I know if they're keepers or not. By then I have my final Primary power and most of what I want out of my Secondaries.
The only time I will consider deleting a character without any worry is if they are under level 10. At that stage I am just giving them a test run to get a feel for how the character might be.
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The moment I create the character.
The only ones I've ever deleted were low level (single digit) characters and it was only because I wanted to recreate them.
Usually I don't. If a character has been sitting unused for over a year or so I'll begin to question its' worth, but usually when I make something they have been folded into a specific part of whatever storyline I'm making up in my head and so killing them off is difficult, though I've done it before. If a set is irritating the character in question usually won't develop enough of a back story for me to care about deleting them.
So far I've killed off a Fire/Axe Tanker because of how weak it was. This was sometime after the Burn change and ED, and I just had enough. He was killed off by a Fire/Fire Brute, who replaced him entirely, though I had him come back as a Kheldian because I liked the character.
I killed an Inv/Nrg tanker as well because he never really clicked with me. He was meant to test out the big energy fandom that was going on at the time, but never made it past ten.
I have a Willpower/SS tanker who is going to be turned into a brute as it matches her personality better and by now I realized I just don't like the tanker AT.
I recently (like, yesterday) deleted an Elec/EA Stalker because he was an AE baby that went from 1 to 32 in a single mission and I really had no relationship with him or anything he could do. after 700 days or so I logged back into him to try to get a feel for who he was and I never could.
I deleted a Spines/Dark Scrapper because he didn't fit in correctly. He was supposed to be a zombie or something, he never really took off with me.
I deleted a Nrg/Nrg blaster who was, I think, my third character ever because he also stopped having a meaningful existence to anything.
I killed a Bots/FF Mastermind because FF was annoying as all hell to play with anyone, and I didn't really like the robots.
I reincarnated a Ninja/Dark into a Zombie/Dark because I liked the idea of him being a Necromancer more and the Ninjas were irritating the hell out of me with how quickly they zipped off everywhere and how intent they were on being dead. I was also massively dissapointed by the Oni, who really didn't fit in with the gang of Ninjas concept at all. Suddenly we have this... Deamon? What? Worse, he couldn't ever seem to figure out what he wanted to be doing, while the Lich was very adamant about his role on my team.
I deleted a Deamon/Dark because the stupid things would NEVER shut up where ALWAYS pushing me and other people around, and were so big and on fire that I could never figure out what was going on half of the time. They're impressive looking just standing around, but actual playtime was incredibly annoying.
I deleted a Broadsword/Shield scrapper for a rather vain reason. I enjoyed how he looked, but I was irritated that I could never get out of the 'ready' stance so long as my shield powers were activated. I'm having pleasant conversation and yet I look like I'm ready to go to war. I'm buying a doughnut and ready to bash some faces in. It just didn't work.
I deleted my Warshade because... I don't really know. I didn't like the costume and couldn't establish a back story for her like I did with my Peacebringer.
I deleted an FF/Elec blaster for the same reason I did the Bots/FF, I really hate playing Force Fielders. I greatly enjoy having one on my team, much as I do having a tank on my team, but they aren't the set for me.
I only delete characters when I'm making room for more
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They're all keepers, until I decide they're not. They're not when they're no longer fun, or a new powerset comes out that would fit the character better. I have deleted a few in the mid-thirties, but once they make it past that point they are usually ok. 35 seems to be the magic level.
I did delete two characters higher than that; a level 41 Broadsword/Regen Scrapper when I finally gave up on ever liking Broadsword, and a level 38 Fire/Energy Blaster who was feeling pretty redundant, since I already had two Fire Blasters, two Fire Corruptors and two /Energy Blasters.
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If they are 20+ or I decide that the concept for the character was stupid, but usually 20+ characters are immune to deletion.
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I believe I have only deleated a couple but rerolled them shortly after that.
Triumph Charactors: Tabby Cat: 50 Claws/Regen
Isabella Ice: 50 ice/ice
Wondderland: 50 ice/cold
Mindfull: 50/Kin
I tend to reroll characters ratherthan full on delete them. some of my characters right now are waiting in the ether for a new powerset to come around so that i can bring them back and tinker a bit with their story to make the new stuff fit. generally my stories are general and deal more with motivations and history then powers. then there is the case of a character that i had initially made for a silly holiday themed gorup with friends that never really took off, but upon reading a few short stories, suddenly i had an idea and completely rewrote him, and suddenly a joke character/ homage to the rudolph the red nose reindeer claymations had my favorite story of all my characters as a pseudo-neil gaimen styled ancient power.
Mid 20's for me. I recently deleted a level 24 AR/Dev Blaster as I just didn't like the powers, even with SO's, not enough ST damage. I'm pondering about giving my Willpower/War Mace tank the boot too, she's 22 I believe.
I think I may have only deleted about a half a dozen characters in my four years, and really none but a handful of "try outs" that I later remade in Victory in about three of those years.. So right from the start, I'm intending to keep everyone. 
Dec out.
Usually have a pretty good feel for them in the mid 20's, but then some sets don't mature until late 30's. I've deleted quite a few (10 or so) toons in the low 40's as well. Usually as a result of a power(s) change and/or game mechanic change. Not always "nerfs" either, I deleted two blasters in their 40's and one in the 30's due to the defiance changes. I just no longer found them fun, but by all accounts they were stronger. I just liked that blasters before were a truly bleeding edge AT and weren't able to just bulldoze through content like everything else.
I always begin the IOing process around level 30. This is when I know whether or not I'm going to keep a character. If I like them enough, I'll start accumulating IOs and keep playing. If not, they'll stagnate and won't get much play time until I eventually lose interest and delete to make way for a new character.
Occasionally, I know a character's going to be great before then and will have IOs pre-purchased for them to grow into. Usually, however, 30 is the level where characters become 'keepers' or get discarded.
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Around level 10 is the keep-or-delete threshold. Premature? Maybe. More often than not, however, it ends up being due to name or concept rather than powersets.
Here are some of the times I make the call.
1) When trying to get a powerset choice to match concept while remaining fun, a character comes under close scrutiny.
My initial characters were a Grav/Kin controller and a Dark Melee/SR scrapper.
At that time in the game, Super Reflexes was awful. It was almost worse than having no secondary. I played the character into the early 30s maybe (I forget) and just hated it. I tried Dark/Dark as a variation of the scrapper, and I found out that, at that time, Dark Armor was even worse than Super Reflexes. You couldn't run all your toggles at the same time. Crazy. I kept remaking the Dark Melee scrapper over and over with different secondaries. I tried Invuln and Regen. Hated them. I went back to SR and just stuck it out, but man I hated it. But the character was important to me. Then right before the great defense nerf, at some point, they doubled super reflexes values and it got almost vaguely tolerable, but then they hit us with the great defense nerf and it sucked (relative to other scrappers) again. When willpower came out, I remade her as Dark/WP. Played her to level 42 or so and then realized I could soft cap her (if I switched back to SR) once inventions came out. Deleted her again, she is finally a soft-capped level 50 character in DM/SR form, as her original concept required.
Of course, Grav/Kin was just as bad. When the game launched, we didn't have Singularity and Wormhole was single target, and all the animation times were 50% longer or worse. It was a god-awful set, and probably the worst combo in the game, even with the extended hold duration and shorter recharge of GDF. Your area control was half that of any other controller, it came late, and you had no pet. Truly awful. I made my Grav/Kin as Grav/Storm, Grav/FF, Grav/Rad, Grav/Kin again, Grav/Storm again, etc. It was insane. I could never get past the mid 30s, and usually never past the mid 20s, even after they gave us singularity (fairly early on) and even after they gave us AOE wormhole (later). Eventually she became Grav/Rad and I got her into the mid-late 30s before the Great Controller Nerf happened. That pissed me off and I deleted her. More on that next.
2) Massive sweeping changes can lead to deletion.
After the period of the Great Defense Nerf, Great Control Nerf, and ED, I deleted all my characters. Every one of them. I played Tankers and Controllers (almost exclusively). I had about 15 characters across 2 or 3 accounts at that time who were all level 35-43 or so. I whacked all of them once I couldn't live with the changes and had been trying for months. Of those 15 characters in the 35-43 range that I deleted, most of them were controllers. I think only 2 were tanks.
Basically, I decided none of them were keepers.
I took a break (tho left my account subscribed) for 6 months and played WoW. Eventually I came back and it was easier to start over once I had kinda put the emotions and the memory of what i used to be able to do behind me. I later regretted the deletions as I had to start all over and ended up re-making most of them. But I dunno, at least I had a clean slate.
3) Deletion can occur due to changes to a powerset that fundamentally alter the playstyle/feel/vibe/concept. The main 2 examples are Energy Melee and Super Strength.
When they nerfed the ever living heck out of energy melee, while I could understand it, it radically changed the way the set played. I picked it because it had lots of fast little attacks, and Energy Transfer was a fast attack too. I had a super speedster concept for my WP/Inv tanker and it was great. I didnt care about damage, I didnt even have build up in my build, and I had total focus but never used it because it was slow. Then they made Energy Transfer slow and balanced everything pretty much around the slow ET, TF with Build-Up and so it entirely changed the way the character felt. Was the DPS too high? Perhaps. I dunno since I never used BU or TF. But it no longer felt right, and the animations were (and are still) ... well lets say, not my cup of tea. So that guy sits on my shelf. I never got him to feel fast again, and so his concept was shot.
With Super Strength, everyone seemed to hate the fact that the rage crash left a SS tanker unable to do anything. I can see the point. They changed it from an inability to attack or use offensive powers. It became the one we have now where you can attack but the damage is nerfed to zero. I HATE that. I understand that most people prefer to be able to taunt or use other powers during the crash, but I can't stand it. Even to this very day, no matter how many hours I put into my various super strength characters (I have 3 of them) I can't figure out the rage crash. I mean, I know there is the icon action that lets me know. But when I play I just dont register them. So I'm constantly wasting endurance swinging my big attacks, going WTH?! and by the time I realize ... "oh, rage crash" and look for the icon indication, its too late. I've burned a massive foot stomp and a KO blow and my endurance is in the gutter. I just cant learn this one. If there was a huge RED text that took up my whole screen to where I could even hardly see the screen that said CRASH then I could maybe do it. But to this day I cannot STAND the new rage crash. At least on the old one, I COULDNT waste my endurance, so when I'd be like "huh?" at least it didnt matter that I never figured it out.
So right now, I've got a WP/SS and an Ice/SS both around level 40. I deleted the Ice/SS once when he was level 35 because I hated the new rage crash. I switched to WP/SS hoping that having both stamina and QR would make the end drain reasonable (the end drain from me being unable to adapt and realize I'm crashed) but even then I'm still having pretty hefty endurance issues with WP/SS. SS is just a monster on your endurance. Its irritating. So, I remade the Ice/SS hoping that I could learn and maybe use the end drain power it has, and so I got him up to 40 but even with the end leech power letting me recover after being a big post-rage moron, I still hate it. My level 42 SS/Elec brute is just kidna shelved, but he is better than the others in that I can sorta just not run rage, and still do pretty good damage.
But all 3 of my super strength characters, all in the 40-42 range, hover on the brink of deletion, or at least server transfer into limbo. Tho I hate to pay 30 bucks just because I'm unwilling to delete. Maybe I'll have to delete them yet again. Too bad there isnt a veteran server transfer 1-time option on the account at level 24 or something. Maybe they'll have another special at some point for a week or so of free ones.
4) I'll delete when I clearly dont like the powerset after 25-35 levels.
I've deleted lots of blasters. I eventually figured out I hate blasters due to the lack of mitigation they have in the high levels. I am usually OK with Glass Cannons in games but Blasters are ridiculous. Now I just play Defenders and Corruptors. Anyway, I've deleted Fire/Energy, Fire/Dev, Sonic/Dev, Ice/Energy, and Sonic/Ice, all in the 30s, just for starters. The only blaster I "stuck it out" with was Ice/Ice, and only because she had enough control that I could stand it. She eventually hit 50. Took me a few years. Jeez.
I also really discovered that I (generally) can't stand Dark Armor. I always hated the graphics. Now we can change those, but I also kinda just dont like damage resistance sets these days. I should maybe try one where I get some set defense to layer with it. But if I dont enjoy the set on generic IOs or SOs, it can get deleted, no matter what sets can do. Its funny tho, back in the day, resistance was king (well, and regen). Its funny how its swapped. Ive deleted a Fire/Dark scrapper in the late 20s because I didnt like /Dark, and I've deleted a few /Electric Brutes (but I kept my SS/Elec even tho I hate both sets simply because I find his concept funny, but I'm tempted to whack him or remake him).
I also figured out early that I hate Stalkers, so I deleted a few of those.
5) Concept can force me to KEEP a character around even though my other criteria make me want to delete him.
I already gave my example of the SS/Elec brute, and my DM/SR scrapper, and my Grav/Kin. All of those were characters whose concept I loved so much that I had to keep them, even though I happened to pick sets I hated or that took a long time to make them work.
Generally what happens in this case is that the character gets morphed. My SS/Elec is in danger of being changed entirely from SS/Elec to something else. Dunno what.
Also, I played a Fire/Trick Arrow controller up to 50 in the days in which the Fire Imps + Oil Slick bug was at its worst. Its bad enough now, in that they still run out of a lit slick but at least they can fight stuff outside the slick. It used to be, when I was playing it, that the imps ran to the edge of the slick and remained brain dead. They'd never attack anyone again on the map, even if you resummoned a new set of imps in another room. And yet my love for the concept kept that character grinding out to 50 on teams (where I'd just not cast Fire Imps at all). I'm glad I did tho, thanks to me loving her concept. Now, she is one of my favorite characters, but I had to wait until the era of the lesser pet bug (as exists now) and I had to perma-hasten her to really get excited. But now that she is there, I'm so glad her concept saved her.
6) Sometimes I delete low characters that I *could* play up due to the feeling of pressure I get from other projects.
Like, right now, Going Rogue is coming out soon, and thanks to pre-purchase, I made some demon characters, I made some dual pistols guys, etc. Plus, I already had 11 or 12 defenders made waiting in the wings for me to finish my current projects, not to mention a couple of scrappers. Also I made 4 new controllers (mostly TA and Rad variants I wanted to try). And that's just hero side (all my demon summoners are gonna be heroes with GR). But then when I realized that Going Rogue and Incarnates may change everything and may make me feel like all my level 50 characters are suddenly obsolete, I started feeling the pressure to not take on so many projects.
So in the last week or so, I deleted 7 of my 12 new lowbie defenders. I deleted ALL of my new scrapper projects. I deleted a blaster (yeah, I had become weak and made a concept character that had to be a blaster) and a lowbie tanker, and I deleted half of my demon characters (I had 2 sets of 3 planned, since I can 3-box). Basically, I deleted 15 lowbies and kept 12. By lowbies, I mean that their levels ranged from 2 to 25.
But I just feel that Going Rogue is putting too much pressure on me and I had to ditch some projects. After all, when GR comes out, I'll have to make at least one KinMelee/SR scrapper, and I'm dreading Electric Control (in a good way). There is a good chance I'll hate Electric Control. After all, every other offensive electric set in the game totally blows chunks due to "end leech" or "end drain" components allowing the devs to justify them being weaker, and I LOATHE mitigation via end drain due to the fact that it still doesnt prevent the foes from doing massive damage with their cheap attacks. So Electric Control could be a big fat stinker (to me). In that case, I'd make Elec/Storm and be done. If Elec Control is merely quasi-lame then I might also extend and make Elec/TA as well. If, however, I really like Electric Control, then I'll have to make Storm, TA, Rad, with a strong possibility of also making FF, Empathy, or Kin, depending on synergy or character concepts.
And woo boy, if they ever port /Dark or /Traps to controllers? Thats a dozen new controllers right there, easy. Not to mention /Poison would generate at least 3.
So yeah ... going rogue ... major pressure. Caused me to delete 15 characters this week.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
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I try not to delete many characters, I play on a few servers though so it's not too hard. I remember way back I used to delete alts all the time then felt bad because I wanted to play them again so I stopped deleting so fast.
Around level 15-20 for me. By then I know if the character has the right combination of name, concept, costume and playability to keep me interested.
When I fail to "feel" it for a character, it's usually pretty soon and I drag just to get to level 10-12 or so. Either I'm interested in the powerset but I just can't find a concept I like or vice versa and eventually I scrap and start over.
One of my friends remind me about the fact that when you chat to civilians who's name begins with M, they tell you how many hours your toon's been played.
As a 4 year vet I totted up my main 50s and I was kind of shocked at the number of hours I've played this game, which is a testament to a great game and the fact I'm a closet nerd.
That's not the point of this post however. I realised that I'll never get the full number... the number of toons I've deleted over time, often at high level (even a 50.) Mostly that's because they take a very long time to grow on me. Some grab me from the start, and obviously Scarlet is one, but I've had a couple of others that still get a regular airing.
For every toon that's made 50, there's a bunch that got deleted, or remade or made, then scrapped... remake/adapt/try again. After 4 years I've got about 6 toons that I wouldn't ever want to scrap. The others... they can be rebuilt without too many troubles.
This isn't about dissatisfaction with the game in any way. I love it. You don't clock the hours I have without feeling great about it... and it's not about the ATs either. I've tried most... and most I've enjoyed, but often it's a question of meshing a concept to a character and finding it gels. Sometimes that goes perfectly... but for others it doesn't happen so much.
What is especially odd (maybe) is that some toons have been a lot of fun to get to 50, but once there, they suddenly turn into a bit "meh" and get left on a shelf, gathering pixel-dust. Only once has one of those toons made it back from "Ourolimbo" and now has become a real fixture of my regular playing once more.
So when do you decide you're gonna keep that toon? I'm not even sure I can say what decides it for me even after this time but I'd be interested in responses.
Thelonious Monk