If you could redesign a canon faction (or two)

Dr_Mechano · 02-01-2010 05:27 AM

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I would make some of the gangs to be proxies of some of the major players. The Hellions would be ultimately controlled by the CoT, the Skulls by the BP, similar to how the Lost are tied to the Rikti.

Actually the low level gangs ARE proxies of higher ones in background lore you just very very rarely see it ingame. the Superadine Cartel goes Skulls->Trolls->Family while an opposing cartel who deal in magical items goes Hellions->Outcasts->Tsoo.

Techbot Alpha · 02-01-2010 06:13 AM

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Originally Posted by Laevateinn

Rikti. For transdimensional alien invaders, they don't pack much of a punch, particularly compared to other 40-50 groups like Malta, Vanguard Sword and Nemesis. They carry few buffs, no debuffs, no ToHitBuffs, no troublesome powers that turn the tide of a fight (Vengeance, Sapper guns) and all that makes them a threat is that they're very mez heavy.

I'd keep the current Rikti faction the same for levels 30-40; at this point you are going up against the frontline troops that are a threat to human militaries but not too dangerous to powerful supers. From 40-50 you should face elite troops intended to specifically fight super-powered beings. The Rikti would deploy powersuited troops exclusively (Chief Soldiers, all the Mentalists, Headmen Gunmen) and boss versions of Rikti Magi, Rikti Priests and Heavy Assault Suits. Heavy Assault Suits should get a swarm missile attack and AI that keeps them at range where they can use their superior firepower. Rikti Priests should get some Empathy buffs instead of being another Dominate/Mental Blast spammer and I'd like to see some unit types that were only hinted at be fleshed-out and implemented as minions (e.g. Psi-Scouts). No, this will never happen and if it did the whining would be deafening but it's fun to think about.

No thanks, I choose life.
Seriously, I like the Rikti. But have you never fought them on anything without mez protection? Or armour?

The kick like a frenzied mule on speed. You go up against a Chief Soldier one on one, and you'd better have some band-aids ready, cos those cleavers they carry hurt. And every single one of them pack stuns and KB.
Rikti Magi are, really, quite hax. They show up (I think) once outside of ship raids, and thats as Boss level mobs in the RWZ arc for Serpent Drummer where you save the PTS.

Flesh them out a bit more, by all means. The same could be said for any group. But they already have more than enough Pain potential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger

GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon

NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

EnigmaBlack · 02-01-2010 06:22 AM

Two things I would do off the top of my head:

In CoV reduce the amount of arcs CoT and Longbow appear in, especially when it comes to SF's. Aside from the zones this was the biggest turn off for me playing villians.

KoA, I'd just add a badge for them

Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?

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Jophiel · 02-01-2010 06:29 AM

Council should be returned to their pre-I3 status.

Agreed that Warriors need some love. From what I understand, the Warriors gave the Hellions the artifact that gives the Hellions their infernal powers. Assuming the Warriors didn't give away their best and only artifact, they really should stop getting beaten down all over town. Or maybe they should ask the Hellions for their artifact back and move to Galaxy City.

Or maybe they're afraid to ask the Hellions for it back

Techbot Alpha · 02-01-2010 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jophiel

Council should be returned to their pre-I3 status.

Non-existent? I'd sign!
For the Column!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger

GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon

NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Jophiel · 02-01-2010 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha

Non-existent?

Got it in one

Spazztastics · 02-01-2010 07:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Eisenzahn

I'll throw in another vote for a complete redesign of Longbow.

I'd add 5 or so unique hero factions, and have them take over most of the existing Longbow content, and probably muscle in on a lot of the Villains vs. Villains content too (probably stuff featuring groups that only make a brief appearance Redside to vex badge hunters, so that there'd remain roughly as many unique factions per side). In fact, I think all I'd leave Longbow as they currently exist with is PvP Zones and Mayhem Missions. Maybe their supporting role in some of the RWZ arcs too. Everything else they do would be replaced by some other hero group.

I'm also all for an expansion of the Banished Pantheon. They seem like too serious of a threat to only matter during the middle levels.

This.

Kelenar · 02-01-2010 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha

Seriously, I like the Rikti. But have you never fought them on anything without mez protection? Or armour?

The kick like a frenzied mule on speed. You go up against a Chief Soldier one on one, and you'd better have some band-aids ready, cos those cleavers they carry hurt. And every single one of them pack stuns and KB.
Rikti Magi are, really, quite hax. They show up (I think) once outside of ship raids, and thats as Boss level mobs in the RWZ arc for Serpent Drummer where you save the PTS.

This. My meleers don't mind them much, but Rikti are one of the most annoying factions to fight on a squishy. Stuns on everything, knockback pinball, chain sleeps and holds, and then a Chief Soldier two-shots you.

Changes I'd make:

Council: Break them down into about three sub-groups. The core Council makes a good Cobra-esque group, but fighting werewolf-vampire-robot-space alien-supersoldiers just makes me want to slap the Center and go 'MAKE UP YOUR FREAKING MIND.'
Rogue Robots: Would be a faction in their own right. Come on, what's a superhero game without a group of evil robots (Clockwork don't count)?
Coralax, Gold Brickers, Shivans, Tsoo, Banished Pantheon, Legacy Chain, Wyvern, Skulls, Hellions: Would all have their level ranges expanded for more arcs + background information.
Banished Pantheon, the Family, and the Tsoo: Deserve some AVs outside of Viridian's arc!
Arachnos: Would not exist. Seriously. I realize this cannot happen, but I still hate Arachnos on multiple levels.
Longbow: Would both have more variety and be less endemic v-side.
Crey: Would keep its cool 'corporate agents in black suits and sunglasses' look instead of ditching it for 'power armor for EVERYBODY' at the higher levels.

Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

Techbot Alpha · 02-01-2010 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jophiel

Got it in one

I approve of you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger

GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon

NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Techbot Alpha · 02-01-2010 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelenar

This. My meleers don't mind them much, but Rikti are one of the most annoying factions to fight on a squishy. Stuns on everything, knockback pinball, chain sleeps and holds, and then a Chief Soldier two-shots you.

Changes I'd make:

Council: Break them down into about three sub-groups. The core Council makes a good Cobra-esque group, but fighting werewolf-vampire-robot-space alien-supersoldiers just makes me want to slap the Center and go 'MAKE UP YOUR FREAKING MIND.'
Rogue Robots: Would be a faction in their own right. Come on, what's a superhero game without a group of evil robots (Clockwork don't count)?
Coralax, Gold Brickers, Shivans, Tsoo, Banished Pantheon, Legacy Chain, Wyvern, Skulls, Hellions: Would all have their level ranges expanded for more arcs + background information.
Banished Pantheon, the Family, and the Tsoo: Deserve some AVs outside of Viridian's arc!
Arachnos: Would not exist. Seriously. I realize this cannot happen, but I still hate Arachnos on multiple levels.
Longbow: Would both have more variety and be less endemic v-side.
Crey: Would keep its cool 'corporate agents in black suits and sunglasses' look instead of ditching it for 'power armor for EVERYBODY' at the higher levels.

^ I like all of them. Execpt the Arachnos one. I kinda like them (NOT when on a pre-20 Brute vs Mu, however

god-damn end drain!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger

GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon

NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

UnicyclePeon · 02-01-2010 08:22 AM

Not having looked at the thread ....

I'd give Warriors more to do. I'd like to give the LTs and Bosses the Shield set. I wouldn't mind extending them through level 40 so we get to fight them longer. They are fun.

I'd love to extend the range of Vahzilok units up to at least level 40, and maybe 50. I think their powers and bosses are scary enough to justify going to level 40, and with a new unit or two for danger, I could see them going to 50.

I would also love to see Banished Pantheon go up to level 50, and actually be a regular group for missions and for newspaper/radio missions. They are awesome, and their various death mask guys and the storm/avalanche/thunder guys are seriously irritating. Enough so that I don't think you'd have to ramp them up to justify raising their level to 50.

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Balanced · 02-01-2010 09:41 AM

I'd actually like to do something with a set of groups that have almost no presence in actual gameplay: the Origin organizations. The only one that has any NPCs other than contacts is MAGI, which has Yanamahri (the grav/dark from the Bonefire arc), the fortune teller, and four mystics in a Croatoa arc. For the most part, you only deal with the organizations for your first contact (assuming you don't street-sweep or run the sewers to level 5).

I think they should get a little more play, and a few active agents each--something like the Kheldian arcs. Every 10 levels or so, your Origin group should contact you for an arc, exploring the different approaches each takes to heroism.

Each could also use a set of named bosses. In addition to appearing in the arcs and expanding the roster of heroes for Mayhems, I'd like to see them appearing on the streets (as fairly rare spawns), interacting with villain groups with the same origin. So, you might happen across a GIFT mutant trying to talk to a bunch of Outcasts, a SERAPH researcher taking measurements on some Vahz, or an ELITE swordsman dueling with a Warrior boss.

Oh, and speaking of Warriors, I asked War Witch long ago if she could throw the Warriors a bone in Talos, and let them at least look like they were winning a fight. As I recall, she said she'd try to help them out...but they're still getting pounded. So there you have it: not even War Witch can save the Warriors.

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Olantern · 02-01-2010 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano

Actually the low level gangs ARE proxies of higher ones in background lore you just very very rarely see it ingame. the Superadine Cartel goes Skulls->Trolls->Family while an opposing cartel who deal in magical items goes Hellions->Outcasts->Tsoo.

Close. The magic group is actually Hellions->Outcasts->Warriors, which is why you'll see the odd Warrior spawn in the Hollows, talking to Hellions or Outcasts. There are a number of arcs about the Tsoo trying to take the Warriors' place, though, because everyone, but everyone, likes to beat up on the Warriors.

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Zyphoid · 02-01-2010 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork

The Warriors.
Yes, the laughing-stock of Talos.
I'd add about ten levels to thier current upper limit and give them access to the Shields defensive set, at least amongst amongst the new, higher-level section.

And DB. The warriors would be my pick also. This is a great group, with a ton of potential.

Second would be Freak Show. I would love to see them with some glowie costumes like the Rikti have.

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Arctic_Princess · 02-01-2010 02:00 PM

Quote:

I think they should get a little more play, and a few active agents each--something like the Kheldian arcs. Every 10 levels or so, your Origin group should contact you for an arc, exploring the different approaches each takes to heroism.

That's possibly the sanest and most appealing way of making Origins matter to me. I approve of this wholeheartedly.

There are already origin-specific contacts - the enhancement vendors in FF and Bricks. I see no reason why they can't have an expanded set of missions, perhaps even repeatable ones that pit you against enemies aligned with the origin (in the same way the starting contacts give you Hellions for Magic, Clocks for Tech, Vaz for Science, Council for Natural (at that point you know no better) and...uh... Skulls for Mutation? Perhaps they should be changed to infected?).

The way I see it GIFT would have some difficulty in having 'original' minions. Mutation is the sort of origin that is difficult to pin down to any one particular power set, in my opinion.

The rest thought could fit in quite neatly with either existing mobs ported over or new critters with 'relevant' powers.

For instance, from levels 1-29, Crey could (in effect) be the people who appear as allies/contacts for ELITE, SERAPH, GIFT and DATA branches of the FBSA. The Legacy Chain would be good for MAGI arcs. I think that the Midnight Squad need to retain their separation from this style of contact missions.

I see DATA and SERAPH as having access to things like confiscated Nemesis Staves (Staves or Staffs is the plural of Staff in that context?), EMP gloves, Poison-style powers (with Science Booster animations, naturally) and the odd bit of experimental armour.

There could even be contact stores available that sell the temp powers available in game (the EMP glove, for example, is given out in a 14-ish mission vs the Clockwork) with some new ones added in that, say, do extra damage vs Devouring Earth or Carnies (I was thinking of Vernon when I typed Devouring Earth).

However, I fear I have been making a suggestion as opposed to discussing the OP. So I say go ahead and perhaps design some arcs to highlight how you'd like the factions to be redesigned or even make the arcs/custom critters for an FBSA Origins idea.

Balanced · 02-01-2010 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess

However, I fear I have been making a suggestion as opposed to discussing the OP. So I say go ahead and perhaps design some arcs to highlight how you'd like the factions to be redesigned or even make the arcs/custom critters for an FBSA Origins idea.

I'm actually working on a set of GIFT arcs now, specifically for this reason. I also have some ideas for ELITE arcs to follow, if I should ever have both time and space to build them.

The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.

Dr_Darkspeed · 02-01-2010 02:37 PM

The obvious ones to expand upon are the legacy chain and Wyvern, since they are pretty much the only non-Longbow/PPD heroic enemies in the game. Villains shouldn't always be fighting other villains, after all.

Thats one of my fears for GR, that they will add a bunch of new villains to fight and forget about adding new goodguys (besdies the resistance, I guess)

Always remember, we were Heroes.

Scarlet Shocker · 02-03-2010 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha

No thanks, I choose life.
Seriously, I like the Rikti. But have you never fought them on anything without mez protection? Or armour?

The kick like a frenzied mule on speed. You go up against a Chief Soldier one on one, and you'd better have some band-aids ready, cos those cleavers they carry hurt. And every single one of them pack stuns and KB.
Rikti Magi are, really, quite hax. They show up (I think) once outside of ship raids, and thats as Boss level mobs in the RWZ arc for Serpent Drummer where you save the PTS.

Flesh them out a bit more, by all means. The same could be said for any group. But they already have more than enough Pain potential.

This

Added to which the Rikti got a massive makeover during I11 (I think that was the issue) when the RCS became RWZ.

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ThatGuyThere · 02-03-2010 11:04 AM

The only group in the game I find truly sinister and villianous is the Vazhilok (sp?).

Seriously, they kidnap (or brainwash) the seriously ill and steal their organs. And bodies. And maybe their souls.

Like, sure, Arachnos wants to take over the world blah blah blah and they better be stopped, but it's Vazhilok that - if I were a Paragon City citizen - I'd actually be *scared* of.

I think they deserve higher-level and / or more content than they have, and to be turned into a serious-and-significant force for Ebil.

Oneirohero · 02-03-2010 12:12 PM

There are a few villain groups I would tweak, mainly on the designs of the supposed leaders of the Skulls, Outcasts, Trolls and Warriors. They kind of look like Elite Boss ranked versions of lower rank enemies model wise. Take for instance, Atta of the Trolls kind of looks like a Gardvord with a red-con at even level, you'd wonder why the guy was able to withstand defeating a ton of troll leaders considering there are Supatrolls which look more intimidating then regular trolls.

Skulls don't even have a leader to speak of, the highest rank is the Boss-rank Bone Daddies and aren't very distinctive of the lower ranks. Then there's the Warrior's Heracles whom only seems more powerful because of Stephanie's wedding band, otherwise he's no more distinctive from lower-rank Warriors.

Essentially I would just try to add and redesign some of the leaders of these factions and make them LOOK like they're the boss of the outfit, something that makes them stand out far from their minions, even upgrade some of them to Archvillain level. A skulls AV with a ton of bone-like armour and massive amounts of dark energy enemating from them. Giving Atta the Troll a serious Superdine overdose to turn him into a Giant-Monsteresque version of a Supatroll. And maybe a Warriors leader who mastered all of the ancient fighting techniques to become kind kind of super-gladiator or roman centurion, with appropriate full-body armour to go with it.

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AzureSkyCiel · 02-03-2010 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneirohero

And maybe a Warriors leader who mastered all of the ancient fighting techniques to become kind kind of super-gladiator or roman centurion, with appropriate full-body armour to go with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneirohero

Warriors

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneirohero

super-gladiator or ROMAN centurion

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NeonPower · 02-03-2010 03:05 PM

I would definately like to see the skulls and hellions get a boost to their sroty.

Hellions, where do they get theri powers, satan worship, expand on that. why not add a dr. Who-esc giant flaming demon to the mix as a kinda devil. or deformed hellions which practically turn into demons.

The skulls could use dark fiends, kinda like super fast shadow monkey like demons. similar to them ones in the legend of zelda twilight princess but more monkey like a glowing in shadow. If you had mobs of super fast shadows trying to kill you that would definately add a bit of fear to that group.

Also i would like to see some spin off's of certain factions. Maybe rogue legacy, longbow, wyvern and Vigilante Arachnos, family, tsoo etc...

Spice things up a bit y'know =)

hmmmm... brain wave... *opens Paragon Wikis enemy group page... hmmmm... crey maybe

Castle · 02-03-2010 04:58 PM

I've always wanted to expand upon the Legacy Chain. They are underused and interesting.

If we ever had a "scourge" like event, I'd like to ditch the Goldbrickers and put The Family back to the low to mid-level roots. The idea of level 40 mobsters with Tommy Guns still boggles my mind.

Dr_Darkspeed · 02-03-2010 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castle

I've always wanted to expand upon the Legacy Chain. They are underused and interesting.

Do it!

Also, Tommy guns do rule!

Always remember, we were Heroes.

RosaQuartz · 02-03-2010 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castle

If we ever had a "scourge" like event, I'd like to ditch the Goldbrickers and put The Family back to the low to mid-level roots. The idea of level 40 mobsters with Tommy Guns still boggles my mind.

I keep thinking there some gated Goldbricker content somewhere that I'm just missing. There's not, but i can't help but think there's some reason for them to exist.

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