Why make Tyrant reluctant leader?
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2010-01-24 22:08 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
we got the sanitized official press release, i suspect that on the resistance side, we will find out that some of those facts were manufactured or flat out lies. tyrant apparently read "the prince". keep in mind, a few well placed media sock puppets can sway public opinion.
As long as he's not just a two-dimensional character, I can live with them adding layers to his personality and his motivations ("I don't wanna be in charge, I don't wanna be in charge... oh fine... but we're doing things my way... hey if you don't like it, there's the door... YOU PUT ME IN THIS POSITION, REMEMBER?!").
Even more curious to see if they retcon out the 'other' side of Tyrant's relationship with Dominatrix.
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Well, we knew almost nothing about their world before. Anyway, didn't we find them? And then start nosing around? Sounds like we're the invading bad guys.|
Originally Posted by LegionAlpha
Just so I can wrap my head around GR, at first the Praotians were once the evil goatee universe (STO Mirror Mirror) only to be some how retconned to a more Justice Lords( Justice League TV show), why the change?
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| Before the background I thought the jerk wanted to somehow grab for power in a world that had no real leadership or order to him, and morality was almost nonexistent in his mind ( like Rorschach), |
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| Why do we need another hero we need to relate to on some level? Whats wrong with just having an universe that is just evil or Age of Apocalypse verse? |
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We may have gone there first, but they're the ones that want to actually invade.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Well, we knew almost nothing about their world before. Anyway, didn't we find them? And then start nosing around? Sounds like we're the invading bad guys.
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We're Stargate Command, they're the Goa'uld.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I agree with what someone said earlier about it being a lie...I bet you that's the story that's written in the history books, but in actuality, Tyrant was actually manipulating people in order to get to that top spot.
I just can't see him having any doubts about being the dictator...
also, even if the stories are true, sometimes the most interesting morality tale is to see someone with a good intention go wrong and undo himself, and be too blind with ambition to see it till eventually someone with his old ideals undoes him. that a a trope as old as greek tragedy. but i suspect that the tyrant bio was only the smallest part of the true story.
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They probably wont touch it with a ten foot pole. I know the comics avoided that issue like the plague!| Even more curious to see if they retcon out the 'other' side of Tyrant's relationship with Dominatrix. |
Either that or it's just a rumour spread by the Resistance to try and show how morally bankrupt Tyrant is (see what you're leaders doing WITH HIS OWN DAUGHTER! How can you trust a man that is willing to sink that low into depravity).
It was a common smear tactic waaayy back in the french revolution for the Revolutionaries to print scandelous panphlets on the royals being depraved and twisted...most of which weren't true.
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That was my intent, sorry for thinking faster than what my hands can type.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Say WHAT??? Morality non-existent in his mind.... wait, maybe I'm misinterpreting the sentence. Do you mean that Rorschach saw a lack of morals AROUND him? If so, I agree.
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I think it's mostly because we already have Relcuse as our major "mine is an evil laugh" supervillain 
By making Tyrant less openly evil at first, it gives more scope for the story arcs - like if he was twirling his moustache right from level 1, there'd not be so many variations in the stories you could set in Praetoria.
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Actually...for once...a very good point GG.
GG, making a decent point, I'm actually quite scared, think that's a sign of the Forumpocalypse, quick call the horsemen!
Recluse and Arachnos are, to be brutally honest, kind of one dimensional villains, they do their thing 'for the evilulz' and there's very little motive to them apart from that. Recluse has his whole 'strongest prevail' schtick going on but it's pretty much just an excuse to keep Mercy a dive.
Emperor Cole/Tyrant (depending on your choices) does allow for more scope. The classic 'is doing something evil for the greater good of mankind really that evil?' issue crops up and there's lots of ways you can toy with just that one idea.
"you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian"
that said, I!d recommend withholding judgement on Emperor Cole's character until you've played through the forth coming story arcs in GR
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Granddaughter, actually.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
see what you're leaders doing WITH HIS OWN DAUGHTER!
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Yeah like that makes it any better...
Did I say it was better?
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I hope they keep it!|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Granddaughter, actually.
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It adds dark tones to the story! Whether they keep it 13+ (Heroes) or 16+ (Villains)...though with combining them, I would think the game is 16+ now as a whole...you don't have to go into DETAILS. Details is what gives things the higher rating.
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God, I hope not.
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Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
Even more curious to see if they retcon out the 'other' side of Tyrant's relationship with Dominatrix.
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Quite the contrary, actually. In the comics, by being 'cryptic' about it, they made it a taboo and therefore made it more interesting (that is, it sparked more interest in the readers/players cause we want to know more, and they won't tell us)
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
They probably wont touch it with a ten foot pole. I know the comics avoided that issue like the plague!
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Originally Posted by LegionAlpha
Just so I can wrap my head around GR, at first the Praotians were once the evil goatee universe (STO Mirror Mirror) only to be some how retconned to a more Justice Lords( Justice League TV show), why the change? I thought the evil universe thing kinda sounded cool and had characters ready for it. I just don't understand why it had to be more the "reluctant leader" thing over what was established. I know this kinda post is hitting on old news but after reading the background of Tyrant, it made me think to bring this up.
Before the background I thought the jerk wanted to somehow grab for power in a world that had no real leadership or order to him, and morality was almost nonexistent in his mind ( like Rorschach), I got that impression after 6 issues of the comic series and when opportunity knocked to shape the world with his ideals of right and wrong he was all over it. Why do we need another hero we need to relate to on some level? Whats wrong with just having an universe that is just evil or Age of Apocalypse verse? |
Because its a lie... I don't know, maybe originally he was reluctant and then developed the evil tyrant power hungry guy we know now. But that thing was made to appear perfect just like Statesman said in that CGI trailer. The praetorian War Witch says something to the effect of "it looks like paradise" and States replies with something to the effect of "Looks like" or "Only on the surface".
Look at ANY and ALL news networks that swing one way or the other. They will focus on some facts and avoid others, cover up or make other things appear less than they really are or greater than they really are just to make themselves (the right or left) seem like they are the good guys.
Same thing here. Its a political thing. He sounds more adoring as a leader if he is one that doesn't want power. But that's just his PR talking, not the actual fact. I guess we won't know until the game comes out.
And to point out how twisted that bio is, it calls us, the primal earth, the a universe of evil....
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There was no Arachnos back then so they needed a "pure evil" group for us to fight at level 40+. Now that we have the bumbling clown-like evil of Lord Recluse they decided to flesh out the Praetorians by turning them into all kinds of shades of grey.|
Originally Posted by LegionAlpha
Just so I can wrap my head around GR, at first the Praotians were once the evil goatee universe (STO Mirror Mirror) only to be some how retconned to a more Justice Lords( Justice League TV show), why the change?
|
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| I thought the evil universe thing kinda sounded cool and had characters ready for it. I just don't understand why it had to be more the "reluctant leader" thing over what was established. I know this kinda post is hitting on old news but after reading the background of Tyrant, it made me think to bring this up. |
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| Before the background I thought the jerk wanted to somehow grab for power in a world that had no real leadership or order to him, and morality was almost nonexistent in his mind ( like Rorschach), I got that impression after 6 issues of the comic series and when opportunity knocked to shape the world with his ideals of right and wrong he was all over it. |
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| Why do we need another hero we need to relate to on some level? Whats wrong with just having an universe that is just evil or Age of Apocalypse verse? |
The primal Earth is more clearly divided between good and evil. Praetoria is more like the real world where people aren't always pure good or pure evil but can be more or less of both at the same time.
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Originally Posted by MrYukon
"you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian"
that said, I!d recommend withholding judgement on Emperor Cole's character until you've played through the forth coming story arcs in GR |
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Ok, damnit, WHERE is that quote from? It's bugging me! XD
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
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*Look at floor, look at cieling* *drum fingers on desk* *drum fingers on skull* Ok, damnit, WHERE is that quote from? It's bugging me! XD |
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This has been my take on it. We've got Recluse to cover the "I'll get you next time, meddling do-gooders!" villainy now. (Even if I hate that about Arachnos.) Besides, pure black and white wouldn't work well for the expansion that's supposed to be about moral ambiguity. "Well, after years as a hero, I just suddenly felt like throwing some kittens into a woodchipper, so I talked to Tyrant's men..."
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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
There was no Arachnos back then so they needed a "pure evil" group for us to fight at level 40+. Now that we have the bumbling clown-like evil of Lord Recluse they decided to flesh out the Praetorians by turning them into all kinds of shades of grey.
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
[Edit: I see this issue has been cleared up. Nothing to see here, carry on.]
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What? Rorschach is not amoral. In fact, I would call him, hyper-moral. He just has no qualms when it comes to punishing those who he has deemed worthy of punishment.|
Originally Posted by LegionAlpha
and morality was almost nonexistent in his mind ( like Rorschach)
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Now, the Comedian? Him I could see being called amoral. He has, almost literally, laughed off morality.
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"Keep your metal mitts off his Granddaughter! No ones is really sure whats up with the two of them. Do you really wanna be the guy to lift up that rock?" |
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
They probably wont touch it with a ten foot pole. I know the comics avoided that issue like the plague!
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Not sure I'd call making an allusions to the relationship "avoiding it like the plague."
Just so I can wrap my head around GR, at first the Praotians were once the evil goatee universe (STO Mirror Mirror) only to be some how retconned to a more Justice Lords( Justice League TV show), why the change? I thought the evil universe thing kinda sounded cool and had characters ready for it. I just don't understand why it had to be more the "reluctant leader" thing over what was established. I know this kinda post is hitting on old news but after reading the background of Tyrant, it made me think to bring this up.
Before the background I thought the jerk wanted to somehow grab for power in a world that had no real leadership or order to him, and morality was almost nonexistent in his mind ( like Rorschach), I got that impression after 6 issues of the comic series and when opportunity knocked to shape the world with his ideals of right and wrong he was all over it. Why do we need another hero we need to relate to on some level? Whats wrong with just having an universe that is just evil or Age of Apocalypse verse?