Worst Mobs Ever.


Amerikatt

 

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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim View Post
Yeah, I feel like I'm adequately equipped to deal with Death Mages later in my career. Ruin Mages in the teens? Deadly.
Two controllers (for redundancy) tend to take care of Ruins. 1 if you manage to proc the critical hold, but if you don't get them at the right time, they can pop their bubble for mez protection. One of the reasons it helps to hit them right after it goes down, too.

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Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior View Post
^ This. Also, Chimera's gang. I've never understood why the AI is such that you can have a dozen or more caltrops throw down on you.
At least (IIRC) Chimera is no longer using his Hacked Bow of Cheesiness that is autohit.


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Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
That's why I take the Ghost Slaying Axe as my vet reward instead of sands of mu. And tend to avoid CoT at low levels blueside.
The Ghost Slaying Axe has one massive flaw though: If you're fighting those damn ghosts, they're debuffing your to-hit like crazy, and since the GSA has no innate to-hit buffs, it usually misses. This goes double if you're trying to kill one of those damned Spectral Lts and it has Chill of the Night up with it's 30% to-hit debuff.


 

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Originally Posted by Castle View Post
I love this thread.

A lot of times, it begins to feel like you guys just blow through everything without really feeling any challenge, so it is nice to see threads that remind us that, yes, there *are* things in the game that are difficult, or at least problematic. We walk a very fine line: If we make enemies too weak, then you guys risk becoming bored by them. If we make them too strong, then you avoid them and their content is left unused.

And, lord knows, I despise running into Spectral Demon Lords most of the time, myself.
Keep in mind there is nothing in this game that many of us would call challenging. Its more so that we have things that just frustrate us to no end. Personally for me its stuff that you know that the only reason its like this is due to AI issues or because the devs have this thing about certain npcs should not lose. For instance look at all the complaints that we got when the M.Bison TF came out and hardly anyone could kill him. This npc use the same setup as Statesman and Hero-1. No npc should have Gawd mode power that recharges that fast. No npc should have 100% resistance to a damage type. All it does is makes players frustrated and the fell totally useless for that fight. I know for me I dont do certain tfs without some on the team thats Psi user that does good damage because I dont want to be there all night. This isnt what I call a challenge. Its what I call the cause of early baldness from pulling your hair out.


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Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
Keep in mind there is nothing in this game that many of us would call challenging. Its more so that we have things that just frustrate us to no end.
I'll have to disagree there. Carnies, Malta, Vanguard and Cimerorans are all examples of enemy groups that aren't really all that annoying, but are either specialized against certain types of hero/villain, or require you to pay attention in order to win most of the time.

Malta especially; best enemy group in the game. They make you pay attention to what you're fighting with the sappers, and then they hit you frequently and hard with the gunslingers, making you scramble and use well-timed inspirations and possibly temp powers in order to survive. And then every once in a while a couple of easy lieutenants you weren't paying attention to will become a boss, just to complicate things further. I love/hate Malta so very much.


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Locking down entire mobs is a catchall solution that can deal with anything in the game short of a Night Widow. It's also a solution that almost no-one who can deal any respectable amount of damage can do. Scrappers, Blasters, Stalkers, Brutes and even Masterminds just lack the area effect control ability to just lock everything down. And locking down just one thing isn't effective, since they spawn multiple lieutenants so often.
Hehhehe.

You haven't met a mind control dominator, have you?

4 AoE controls, (5, if tk is used correctly) and blaster-like damage.

I begin to think a perma Mind/ dominator> most of the game.


 

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Originally Posted by docbuzzard View Post
Actually I think they have high perception in addition to ignoring stealth. If you fight them on a large map, they see you from way the hell away and start swarming.
No. KoA has regular perception 45/50/54. They just ignore stealth. You probably were misled by ambush that was locked on you. It happens in some Crimson missions.


 

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For sheer annoyance: anything with caltrops.

For threat value? The only time I ever really feal threatened is if I don't spot a Malta Sapper before I pull.

Oddly enough, the groups people are listing as most annoying have actually been my favorites. I practically leveled 15 - 25 on CoT and Tsoo and I've been running Mostly Malta missions the last few weeks.

I pretty sure I way overcompensated both accuracy and endurance regen on my claws / regen scrapper very early on. Even sappers are more of an annoyance than a threat unless I don't see them and they get several shots off. Even then, I can usually duck around a corner and have a full endurance bar before they catch up.


 

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Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
I tend to play mostly melee types so I've run across a strategy that is fairly dependable for fighting sorcerers. When you approach the group hit the sorcerer first, this should start his teleportation ritual. Next select another target from the group and use your low end attacks on it; trying to avoid defeating it outright. The sorcerer should now start teleporting back to the fight to heal up the other mob; when he does hit the sorcerer with your stronger attacks until he ports away again at which point you switch back to the "bait" mob again.
That's precisely what I do. That doesn't make it any less annoying, though.


 

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Somebody mentioned Mook Hitmen. I hate those guys SO MUCH. They prefer range, and since they have no melee attacks, closing in on them makes them run all over the place. Plus, those rifles hurt. They're an early lesson in target priority; you MUST kill them first, and kill them fast, or you're in a world of pain.

Sorcerers, Storm Shamans, and Spectral Demon Lords are only bad in multiples. One is fine. Two, and you're dead. No amount of yellow inspirations will help overcome stacked Hurricanes.

Carnies are annoying because you can't tank them in a normal fashion. If you try to stick them to your taunt aura, your endurance is empty after every single fight, and that's simply not sustainable. There's also the problem of Master Illusionists being the strongest bosses in the game. Boy, you have got to get those ladies down FAST.

Malta isn't so bad once you get your priority list down pat. Sappers, Gunslingers, robots, humans, turrets. The regular dudes with guns are pretty feeble.

Kadabra Kill is only bad because it's two bosses at once, and Lost bosses are no pushovers. Sub level 30, juggling bosses is pretty tricky to pull off for most builds, and KK really requires your undivided attention. Once the Singularity comes out, it gets very, very ugly.


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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Psst... Ruin. Death are later. Ruin = blue robes, Death = darkish purple or so.
Ah yep that's right it's the Ruins. That'll teach me to post after working a double.


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Toxic Tarantulas. Especially as most melee sorts. Oh, they hit hard.


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Originally Posted by macskull View Post
The only "difficult" NPC group in this game is Vanguard. They only appear in a few arcs, yet you don't exactly see people jumping over each other to run those arcs - they're equipped with a large variety of powers designed to nullify pretty much anything, and they can give even the strongest Tankers problems sometimes (plus they have some nasty, persistent debuffs, which require purchasing temp powers to remove). Every other group - high-level CoT, Carnies, Malta - is easily countered by intelligent playing and good inspiration management.
For the most part, I would agree, but on my MM, I don't.

Smart inspiration use doesn't apply as much to them, it's mostly just using break frees when needed. I rarely found the issue to be me dying, it's always the pets dying, and feeding them purples to they survive is just not realistic.

The issue for me was, especially against Malta, if a single gunslinger teleports in and shoots an aoe at my bots, well they're dead. If a zeus shoots at my bots, well they're dead. Now the zeus I can keep taunted on me, but the gunslingers I can't, they'll just teleport around. I'd love to know how to counter all my bots getting killed by just one aoe, especially considering how incredibly crappy the pet AI is.


 

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Originally Posted by NarfMann View Post
I'll have to disagree there. Carnies, Malta, Vanguard and Cimerorans are all examples of enemy groups that aren't really all that annoying, but are either specialized against certain types of hero/villain, or require you to pay attention in order to win most of the time.

Malta especially; best enemy group in the game. They make you pay attention to what you're fighting with the sappers, and then they hit you frequently and hard with the gunslingers, making you scramble and use well-timed inspirations and possibly temp powers in order to survive. And then every once in a while a couple of easy lieutenants you weren't paying attention to will become a boss, just to complicate things further. I love/hate Malta so very much.
Bull **** dude, there is nothing fun about having your endurance drained to zero, enemies that can attack you while phased, enemies that perma-mez you and drain you. How can you say that isnt frustrating? I intentionally skip malta because of all the smashing lethal resistance is just stupidly high. The 40s is extremely depressing time for me because all the crazy stuff like this. It severely limits what missions I will due because of the frustrations. If it takes too long I am not going to do it. Its not that I get defeated by them, that rarely happens but its not worth the xp/inf/merits over time. If they were to go back and change alot of that stuff I would be more likely to play all the content instead of just a select few missions. I will do a tf or sf in a group with those factions but thats because you have buffs/debuffs to help deal with these so that they dont slow you down as much.


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My best defense against Malta? Confuse/Disorient. Hit the sappers with it and watch the fireworks...or lack thereof.


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For Tsoo sorcerers I just kill their buddy when they tp away. By the time they tp back their buddy is 1 hit away from death so they end up just healing a corpse. For knives I just dont do their missions. Its not worth the frustration of being perma-slowed into next week. I dont see the point of the caltrops. Practically everyone has some form of smashing/lethal resistance by the time these missions happen so how can anyone die from being caltropped to death? I would rather they spam immobilize than put a sea of caltrops that can cause performance issues on older pcs.

I would say the cimerians are one of the better groups. They didnt create them with stupid resists except on the elite bosses but again thats doable with a team. I hope the newer critters being made in GR follow a similar pattern and not have critters that have crazy resistances.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey_King View Post
Somebody mentioned Mook Hitmen. I hate those guys SO MUCH. They prefer range, and since they have no melee attacks, closing in on them makes them run all over the place. Plus, those rifles hurt. They're an early lesson in target priority; you MUST kill them first, and kill them fast, or you're in a world of pain.

Sorcerers, Storm Shamans, and Spectral Demon Lords are only bad in multiples. One is fine. Two, and you're dead. No amount of yellow inspirations will help overcome stacked Hurricanes.

Carnies are annoying because you can't tank them in a normal fashion. If you try to stick them to your taunt aura, your endurance is empty after every single fight, and that's simply not sustainable. There's also the problem of Master Illusionists being the strongest bosses in the game. Boy, you have got to get those ladies down FAST.

Malta isn't so bad once you get your priority list down pat. Sappers, Gunslingers, robots, humans, turrets. The regular dudes with guns are pretty feeble.

Kadabra Kill is only bad because it's two bosses at once, and Lost bosses are no pushovers. Sub level 30, juggling bosses is pretty tricky to pull off for most builds, and KK really requires your undivided attention. Once the Singularity comes out, it gets very, very ugly.
Mook hitmen are find of funny because they are the only critter in the game that if you manage to confuse them they stay perma-confused for some reason. I remember I had like 10 of them confused at once in a mission. They pretty much ran thru the whole map running around and sniping each other. Almost like playing a FPS. I agree with you about KK. He his annoying but I actually had more problems with that wife of his and her energy melee attacks.


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Posted

Heh, nice to see everyone still hates Malta. The sight of a big tough tanker curling up into a ball and wimpering in a corner at the very thought of a Sapper...actually that's why I hate them on teams when I'm a squishy, everybody gangs up on that lone Sapper and then all the squishies get nailed with the Stun Grenade of Infinity +1.

Solo though...I stopped hating Malta when I got my /Elec Brute up into the 40s. That was my first character to laught at them. Now I have an /SR and an /SD, I fight them at +2/x8 just because I can. Even my Invul does ok. Blaster with a hold, same deal. The only thing I really hate about them anymore is that the new "improved" Titan AI has them shooting missile swarms all the freaking time, which fills my screen with smoke so I can't see a thing.


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Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
What are those particular low-spawning enemies that you have the worst trouble with? Y'know, the ones who could almost be an Elite Boss or above, but aren't. Somehow they seem to defy the norm and tear your characters to shreds and you're left staring at the screen and asking... "Wha... wha... what the hell was that?" Here's a few picks of mine.

Spectral Daemon Lords - It's suppose to be a lieutenant, but seems way overpowered for one. Some builds can take 'em down easy, but others? It's like... um... oh crap. Especially bad when they con orange. I hate fighting these guys.

Nerva Spectral Daemon Lords - Not as bad as above, but if you're not careful, can easily remind you such experiences with their earlier level bretheren.
The very reason my first vet attack power choice was the Undead Slaying Axe

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Sorcerers - Very irritating liuetenants for melee builds. They just teleport all over the damn place and even heal the guy you're trying to kill in the meantime.
Way back in beta, back when the trains only went to one location from each station, my first encounter with the Sorcerers had me feeling like Elmer Fudd.

Ever since, Sorcerers and anything with the same behavior (Air/Earth/Fire Thorns for instance) "Rabbits"

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Centurians - Um... wow... you hit hard for a primitive. Squishies beware, bring a couple purples just in case he gets too close.
Def debuff galore.

Once, at the end of a fight, I exclaimed "Yay! Postive Defense!"

I want to say I was playing my stone tank at the time, but I'm not certain of that.


Btw, you missed Dark Ring Mistresses and Sappers

Oh...and Swarms.

HATE Swarms

HATE HATE HATE


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Death is pretty frustrating too. That's why I just play with the IWIN button on autofire.


 

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The mobs I hate the most are the ones that "cheat" in some way. I don't mind difficulty in the enemies I fight, but I do hate it when they play by different rules. Namely, Carnival Illusionists. We can't attack while phased, so why can they?

That and Rularuu Eyeballs, because they have enough accuracy to punch through most defense like it's not even there. Doing Technician Naylor's Shadow Shard arc on my Energy/Energy Stalker was one of the most painful experiences I've had in this game.


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Posted

Very interesting reading.

I'm a bit bemused by the folks stating that such-and-such is easy if you have a certain combination of ATs, power sets, temp powers, and so forth. That may well be the case, but unfortunately for 99% of the players out there, they don't have their bags of holding with one of each inside. I mean, I had one, but I lost it somewhere in the lake in Perez Park.

I think the point is that an optimal team can do anything they want against a certain foe, but that same team might be much less effective against something else. Doesn't make that foe any less tough for someone.


Oh, and Vahz hurlage and CoT, particularly at lower levels. Definitely. You can barely afford the End to run your defense toggles, if you're lucky enough to have them, and they go and have the nerve to effectively ignore them anyway.

Of course, I've just decided on general principles that I hate CoT all the time. It's easier that way, and I'm right almost all the time. Plus, their caves give me a headache.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
Bull **** dude, there is nothing fun about having your endurance drained to zero, enemies that can attack you while phased, enemies that perma-mez you and drain you. How can you say that isnt frustrating? I intentionally skip malta because of all the smashing lethal resistance is just stupidly high. The 40s is extremely depressing time for me because all the crazy stuff like this. It severely limits what missions I will due because of the frustrations. If it takes too long I am not going to do it. Its not that I get defeated by them, that rarely happens but its not worth the xp/inf/merits over time. If they were to go back and change alot of that stuff I would be more likely to play all the content instead of just a select few missions. I will do a tf or sf in a group with those factions but thats because you have buffs/debuffs to help deal with these so that they dont slow you down as much.
Methinks you either don't know what you're doing, or are soloing Malta with one of the ATs/power combos that Malta are particularly well-suited against. If you pay attention to what you're fighting, Malta are only scary. Trying to solo Malta with an empathy/Archery defender will probably result in serious death, but with any troller, tanker, scrapper, stalker, brute, dominator, mastermind or blaster all it takes to get through is timely use of inspirations and/or clever power use. And you may have to run away to regroup/recover before the fight is over, but that's part of what makes them fun.

(Here's a hint: Don't let the sappers hit you)


 

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Originally Posted by Iannis View Post
Heh, I took a special kind of joy throwing blinding powder on Knives and confusing the lot of them to turn their massive caltrop fields against them on my stalker.
Oooo! So very evil..... yet funny!


>


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Quote:
Originally Posted by NarfMann View Post
Methinks you either don't know what you're doing, or are soloing Malta with one of the ATs/power combos that Malta are particularly well-suited against. If you pay attention to what you're fighting, Malta are only scary. Trying to solo Malta with an empathy/Archery defender will probably result in serious death, but with any troller, tanker, scrapper, stalker, brute, dominator, mastermind or blaster all it takes to get through is timely use of inspirations and/or clever power use. And you may have to run away to regroup/recover before the fight is over, but that's part of what makes them fun.

(Here's a hint: Don't let the sappers hit you)
And always take out the sappers first! Preferably opening with a high damage attack that has a good chance to knockdown, stun or hold.


>


"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull

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