Ninja Run
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-11-13 08:49 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Anime is hardly to blame for how ninja are portrayed, bad Kung Fu flicks are (and in the actual history, probably the ninja themselves).|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Ninjas were much, much cooler before anime became popular.
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But sure, if you want to be silly about it, we could just take the realistic approach: People that would have posed as carpenters or other household employees that would have taken a hammer to the back of the target's skull at an opportune time and wouldn't have participated in the cloak&dagger mystical crap. But hey, in today's vernacular, the meaning of ninja just being "assassin" has changed to describe the black-suited mystic acrobats any schoolchild should recognize (hence why you can have that retarded movie titled "Ninja Assassin"...which still makes me cringe to hear/read).
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
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Actually, the source of the black-clad ninja we normally associate with ninjas today is the fault of the old-school Japanese plays.|
Originally Posted by LostHalo
Anime is hardly to blame for how ninja are portrayed, bad Kung Fu flicks are (and in the actual history, probably the ninja themselves).
... the meaning of ninja just being "assassin" has changed to describe the black-suited mystic acrobats any schoolchild should recognize (hence why you can have that retarded movie titled "Ninja Assassin"...which still makes me cringe to hear/read). |
The stage hands (the people that moved the props around and put the set together) normally dressed in all-black pajamas (what you think of when you think "ninja"), and were generally on-stage even in the middle of the performance. The audience was supposed to just ignore them as if they weren't there.
Then someone got creative and had the actor of the assassin pretend to be a stage hand until it was time for the assassination. Suddenly, one of the people you're supposed to be ignoring is an actual character, and is stabbing the emperor with a knife.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Which is an amusing meeting of reality and fiction but I never really agreed with the analysis of it being the source of the modern interpretation.
I'm sure people better than I have researched it to great extent, but I always saw the black-suited stagehand/assassin thing as simply being a fairly...unique way the play took on the actual reality of the ninja (with the method of hiding in plain sight amongst the employees) rather than a start of the media subculture. Yeah, there is source material beforehand but it wasn't nearly as massive a household name as it is now.
Heh, now that I think about it, I remember critiquing a research paper that tried to document various media subcultures and their dissonance with reality (as another example, Errol Flynn-type swashbuckler piracy versus merchant smugglers versus 'jolly roger', etc.).
Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~
Now all we need is a Vanilla Ice Ninja Rap boombox emote and we're all set.
The Bacon Compels You.
Ninja Run + Dual Pistols in GR? I want to cry?
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It's the first instance of the same style of black pajama-wearing ninjas we see today, it became a popular trope in Japanese plays involving ninja, and the image has remained fairly constant for decades. I don't see how you can so flippantly dismiss it as the source for the black-pajama-ninja stereotype.
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Originally Posted by LostHalo
I always saw the black-suited stagehand/assassin thing as simply being a fairly...unique way the play took on the actual reality of the ninja (with the method of hiding in plain sight amongst the employees) rather than a start of the media subculture.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Hell no.| But sure, if you want to be silly about it, we could just take the realistic approach |
I don't want realism. I want cool ninjas.
Most Kung Fu flicks had cool ninjas. It's not me being stuck in the 70s either, Dr McNinja is a cool ninja and that's a recent and popular webcomic.
Anime has lame teenagers with big creepy eyes shouting in high pitched voices with the same two frames displayed during four seconds ; the latter part is what Ninja run's running animation looks like, and it's terrible.
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So do I, and nor do I, but standing like that is a sure way to end up with it. | I know that is your opinion, but I have to, respectfully, disagree. I have Scoliosis, and I don't look like that when I stand around idle. |
Seriously though, that was tongue in cheek. It hurts my back just *watching* it.
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You're not watching the right anime.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Anime has lame teenagers with big creepy eyes shouting in high pitched voices with the same two frames displayed during four seconds
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I bought the booster pack and I feel like it was worth it just for Ninja Run, with the other goodies as a bonus. I'm finding Ninja run acceptable as a travel power, when paired up with hurdle or sprint with an appropriate enhancement in the base slot of either.
I especially like Ninja run with my stalkers (not a big surprise), for my dark melee / energy aura brute, and for my all-human warshade who is always using shadow cloak.
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The black costume aspect aside (which has already been explained) anime and anime-inspired movies/shows (e.g. Super Sentai) brought in this idea that martial artists do flips constantly and there's that goofy "whoosh!" sound every time they do.
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Originally Posted by LostHalo
Anime is hardly to blame for how ninja are portrayed, bad Kung Fu flicks are (and in the actual history, probably the ninja themselves).
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@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Ninjas have http://www.realultimatepower.net/!
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
It is one of the coolest powers i've seen yet, the only beef i have is the power uses .46 power per second, and you aren't able to modify the power at all. so I find that a little high for the power, it should be much lower considering it doesn't overpower by any means. It should be more like ~.2
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On a good day, for me, that idle stance wasn't painful at all. The flail to the gonads was |
Originally Posted by Nihilii
So do I, and nor do I, but standing like that is a sure way to end up with it.
Seriously though, that was tongue in cheek. It hurts my back just *watching* it. |
. But, not the stance. However uncomfortable it looks. 
On the whole, I agree. Standing around like that all day would certainly lead to some back problems of one sort or another.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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Amen
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Originally Posted by Chill_NA
Ninja Run + Dual Pistols in GR? I want to cry?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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1. Just posting my appeciation for Ninja Run: very nice. Coupled with Elude its fantastic.
2. Wish list: I understand that as it's not a true travel power it will never be slottable(aww... shucks).
3. ninja run + dual pistals + ability to cling (2 seconds max) or bounce off vertical surfaces in GR (see title of #2)
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
I have to say. Seeing how FAST NR is, esspecally if you combine it with sprint, swift/hurdle, and god forbide, quickness or lighting reflexes...(or mental training) good lord. It's faster then fully slotted fly...
and that, IMO, is kind of the last straw with fly. Bad enough it's the slowest travel power in the game, by a considerable margin, and to get there, it needs heavy slotting and swift... it's now outdone by a perk travel power, a innate, and fitness?? And if you need vertical movement above and beyound that, you can win a jet pack, a jump pack, or just buy a jet pack now a days....
How is fly supposed to compete as a travel power on it's own when you consider it's the slowest there is, and the flying effect is nearly free for all to get... ? combine superspeed and a jet pack and it's faster and nearly as safe as sright up flying. Superjump... has aways blowen flys doors off.... but if you in the shadowshard... MAYBE it's still better to have fly, but who goes there anymore!? (a topic for another time.) Now we have a presto travel power that faster then fly, and has access to jet packs like everyone else...
IMO.. fly needs a max speed buff. It's time. It doesn't have to be the fastest, it prolly shouldn't be, but it needs to be closer to superjumpings top speed then it is. IMO, at this phase in the game... it's a reasonable request... at least i think so.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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Fly doesn't need "heavy slotting and swift" any more to hit its cap. The unenhanced speed of Fly was buffed so that you can hit the cap with just moderate slotting.
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Originally Posted by KingSnake
Bad enough it's the slowest travel power in the game, by a considerable margin, and to get there, it needs heavy slotting and swift...
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I've heard something to that effect. what's moderate ? In terms of slotting?|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Fly doesn't need "heavy slotting and swift" any more to hit its cap. The unenhanced speed of Fly was buffed so that you can hit the cap with just moderate slotting.
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still, you get the speed cap on superspeed with just swift and sprint turned on, no extra slots. You hit the jump speed cap with just hurdle.. no extra slots. TP is just flat out fast out of the box, and only gets faster.
Fly is still the slowest with more slotting, and the fly effect is handed out feely in a bunch of different places. (jet packs) And NOW, ninja run, with some work, is faster then fly.
Fly, IMO, needs a bit more speed to make training it and slotting it more worth it. A little closer to Superjumps top speed. It'd still be the slowest, just not so slow everything leaves it in it's wake.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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2 level 50 IO's in Fly should be plenty to cap flight speed. My level 50 Defender with 1 flight speed slot in Fly, 1 in Swift and a couple minor set bonuses is over the cap for for flight speed. If i dropped Swift from the build i would still be just slightly below the speed cap.
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Originally Posted by KingSnake
I've heard something to that effect. what's moderate ? In terms of slotting?
still, you get the speed cap on superspeed with just swift and sprint turned on, no extra slots. You hit the jump speed cap with just hurdle.. no extra slots. TP is just flat out fast out of the box, and only gets faster. Fly is still the slowest with more slotting, and the fly effect is handed out feely in a bunch of different places. (jet packs) And NOW, ninja run, with some work, is faster then fly. Fly, IMO, needs a bit more speed to make training it and slotting it more worth it. A little closer to Superjumps top speed. It'd still be the slowest, just not so slow everything leaves it in it's wake. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Not sure if this got mentioned...too lazy to thumb through the whole thread...but...
As an experiment i did the following.
On most toons...3 slot for run speed in swift and sprint (your choice of which one) + ninja run puts you faster than a 3 slotted Fly. My lvl 28 blaster flew at like 47...49 mpp...somewhere in that range. As a test i did the above and he ran @ 58 MPH...and Jump Speed was maxed out! ....Yeah...I respecced.
On toons with a +speed power (super reflexes, electric armor) if you do the same as above PLUS 3 slot for run speed on Quickness (I think that's the SR Power)/Lightning Reflexes...you top out MUCH fasters...like just a wee bit shy of capped run speed faster. Did this on my Elec/Elec Stalker...72 mph running and 73 MPH jumping (CAPPED for lvl 42).
NOW...For you Kinetic's people. I tried this on a lvl 13 Kin Corruptor...no swift...no hurdle...
As a side note in regards to spending slots. For most toons, ie those that are not super reflexes or electric armor, 3 slotting swift, sprint, and hurdle only costs one more slot than if you were to six slot teleport. Which all in all to me...not that bad at all for a power that can get me around faster than flight. 8 slots for the afore mentioned powersets. For me...worth every slot...and still had plenty of slotting for my other powers that needed them. But, as they say, what's good for the goose may not be good for the gander. YMMV.
Sprint+NR+Siphon Speed...71 MPH!!! Double Stack of Siphoning...CAPPED RUN SPEED!!!!!! If i figure right...if he had swift...one application of SP would put him at the cap. Not sure how this would go in higher levels however.
Also...NR's run and jump speeds DO scale slightly as you level up. So it's not constant.
If you are willing to put in some loving to this power...it can turn out to be a very viable travel power on it's own. I've tested this power even in vertically challenging zones like Grandville...Minimal problems getting around there, even if you can't jump as high as SJ. And if you have the GvE Edition Jump Pack........what problems (tho i haven't used it at all yet save for once...as a test.)
I really could go on but....i must get to BED...lol.
RaikenX is currently seeking new quotes to add to his signature.
Someone say something funny.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
If you're experimenting with builds on test I'd suggest starting with one enhancer in a passive like Quickness or Swift and checking your speed each time you add another. The speed gained per additional slot may not be enough to justify adding that second or third slot. (YMMV)
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Ninja run is the best thing I have seen in a long time. It fills that travel power gap perfectly for natural heroes or any character concept that the other travel powers don't mesh will with. It has me playing several characters that have been dormant for years due to the concept failing at travel power time. Kudos Paragon Studios!
I have been having a lot of fun with my baby Ninja Run stalker.
Jump in, Assassin strike, wait for suppression to drop, jump out. Run, rinse, and repeat.
Outside of the stalker I will never level past 6 it has solved my travel power problem with my WP/Elec tank. My poor jetpack had 4 minutes on it when I got the pack. Mixed with the jumpjet from the GvE edition you get a great movement ability on all your characters.
I LOOOOOVE Ninja Run, Love it so much. Just... Sooo Much.... Gonna re-map my gamepad specifically for travel so I can go platforming around anywhere!
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.