Ninja Run
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-11-13 08:49 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Heheh. I think that sums it up quite well. Oh, and the 60's Adam West Batman was DEFINATELY Lawful Good. "Let's use the Bat ropes, Robin. We wouldn't want to walk in the front door and attract too much attention." |
Originally Posted by Dispari
I was researching some alignment stuff to see if I could peg Batman a bit better, but then I found this.
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The truth is, though, no one is an actual Alignment. Human nature is far too complex to narrow down to nine simple categories across two axes. It's simple enough to use for a story or a role playing game, but you could never really apply it to real life.
I do see it much like Zen, though. One is not Yin, or Yang, one is MORE Yin, or MORE Yang. You have all nine of those Alignments in you. The question is, which is dominant within you -- or which do you ALLOW to dominate you?
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| I should say they're certainly capable [of killing]. Legolas did it all over the place. |
And yes, IMHO, Batman is as good as he is at what he does because he has that insane killer inside of him. He keeps it under rigid control and uses it as a source of terror, to make the death of his parents mean something positive. But the Joker's whole idea of "One Bad Day" is that he's aware of that basic similarity between him and Batman.
Anyway, while this is certainly on topic for heroes in general, this is off topic for this thread, so let's just let it go at that.
/e thread jack: From my recollection of D&D
Lawful good = Saintly = defined rules of conduct (not necessarily the local rules, but would likely function well in rules within rules, ie Christianity in the USA) followed for a universal balance of order/predictability over disorder.
Chaotic Good = Beatific = no rules but ultimately ordered/predictable- lions kill but understandably why. Police may kill not to cause unrest but to restore it.
Lawful Evil = Diabolical = difined rules to cause disorder. Truely mad scientist methodically causing disorder.
Chaotic Evil = Demonic = wanton abandonment of any system; universally causing further disorder/unpredictability - may or may not be purposeful, antisocial. Not necessarily purposeful enough to say evil FOR evil's sake. True demon. Satanic. may or may not have conscious purpose.
Then there are combos: chaotic-neutral (un-understandable purposeful balanced dungeon master/dev 
), neutral-good chaotic (usually for animals), Lawful Neutral - methodical for argueable/changing reasons (Ninja?), etc etc.
/e unthread jack
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Ok, I laughed pretty hard at that Chaotic Evil Batman |
Originally Posted by Dispari
I was researching some alignment stuff to see if I could peg Batman a bit better, but then I found this.
http://i26.tinypic.com/t7iujq.jpg |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Psshh...|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
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That isn't Pirate Run. That's how my Fire Blaster spent most of her time after getting her AoE and before getting Stamina.
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Batman is a ninja, thats heroic enough for me! besides, who says I can't be a rogue?
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Originally Posted by Sapphire7
1. Jack isn't a hero*. He's a protagonist to be sure, but he's not a hero.
2. Ninja aren't heroes either. In fact, Ninja generally had no code of honor. From wiki: Also doesn't sound very heroic. Not that I'm advocating a Jack Sparrow -run power, but.. just sayin'. ;] * Generally, heroes act for the greater good, or for some moral motivation. Jack acts for "what's good for me?". Not that there's anything wrong with that. Jack is Chaotic Neutral. I'm True Neutral, so I empathize most with his character in the stories. Elizabeth and Will are Lawful Good to start, and end up Chaotic Good. Barbosa is Chaotic Evil with many Chaotic Neutral tendencies. (The fact that he shot a member of his own crew to test if the curse had been lifted, the fact that he purposely threatened with intent to distress, and then attempted to kill Elizabeth, his tendency to betray his own word.. these are all very CE traits. I'm not saying I don't like him, but he's definitely CE.) |
Bonnie and her bunny
Arc ID: 59406
The Trash Came Back
Arc ID: 350303
WOW what a threadjack!
From Ninja Run, to Pirate Run, to Batman's D&D alignment. That poor train of thought is so far off it's tracks now it has NO idea where to go next...LOL!
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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I saw a toon with the huge body type using Ninja Run. It looked like he was huffing his armpit.
Personally, I'm in the "looks silly for non-ninja-themed characters, especially those with guns" camp, but it's your $10.
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Maybe those with a gun but a dual pistols person will look pretty cool with ninja run.
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Originally Posted by Godpants
I saw a toon with the huge body type using Ninja Run. It looked like he was huffing his armpit.
Personally, I'm in the "looks silly for non-ninja-themed characters, especially those with guns" camp, but it's your $10. |
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The Angle Slam, the Ankle Lock.
Marty Jannetty...still can't walk.
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I'll make your ankle hurt.
I'm just the sexy Kurt.
I'll make your ankle hurt."
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I made a shiney white knight with shield/axe with the express purpose of trying to make a character that I'd hate to see Ninja Run on.|
Originally Posted by Godpants
I saw a toon with the huge body type using Ninja Run. It looked like he was huffing his armpit.
Personally, I'm in the "looks silly for non-ninja-themed characters, especially those with guns" camp, but it's your $10. |
He looks awesome when he Ninja Runs. ;;
I agree with everyone about how cool the "ninja run" is. When i tried CO their "acrobatics" travel power was so cool I wished it was in Cox. And now it is - very cool. I'm going to offer a suggestion to improve it when I get a chance (if it hasn't been done already). Because the power just isn't as fluid as it could be and seems a bit rushed out. I know some will scratch their heads but here's what I noticed:
On the ground:
* There are animations for forward, forward/diagonal, left & right, and backwards only.
* There are no backwards/diagonal animations - the character just stays in the rear animation run and glides to the left or right.
In the air:
* When changing direction during mid jump (Ie: jumping right and then changing to a forward direction) a character doesn't adjust/change leaping animation until you land and continue in the new direction.
So, there is no diagonal animation when traveling backwards and no transitional animation during mid jump/leap travel. I think it would be simple to add this in and the fluidity would make the power even more enjoyable for the $10 bucks you pay.
I'm hoping for some adjustments if possible.
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I've petitioned several times and brought this subject up many times and i fullheartedly agree. It makes ZERO sense that it won't work with other movement powers. When SJ and SS can work at the same time, there makes no sense why ninja run wouldn't with them as well. Classify'ingly.|
Originally Posted by Jharber
Ninja Run is the best #$% thing in the world! I would have paid the $10 just for that! Whoever thought this power up deserves a raise!
my only complaint is that it does not work with combat jumping! Please make it work with combat jumping ... take away one of the jumping mods, I just want the sprint ability without having to click back and forth and without having to use the old sprint. |
But the fact that it doesn't work with combat jumping just APALLS me. And makes no sense either. Very annoying having to toggle back and forth between the two especially when using CJ for its defense as well.
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No, but you can certainly use SJ or Cj with sprint on, which is more-so what ninja run is like. The fact that it supresses also appalls me. Its not THAT fast that it should be doing this. Its a beefed up sprint - ninja style more or less. You can't even slot or enhance it.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Why do you need +Def while traveling?
Ninja Running is a travel power. A mix of Super Speed and Super Jump. It's not a combat power like Combat Jumping. As for why it's mutually exclusive with CJ... have you ever tried to use Super Jump alongside CJ? |
Its worth it for cool factor just for flipping while jumping, something i've wanted to be for normal jumping since day 1, guess this is better than nothing though i suppose :/.
Now i want an "anime" ninja pack. Where when using ninja run with SJ for example your toon does a million superfast "cannonball" flips in the air etc.
One thing i would like animation-wise though is when running forward, the whole hand back thing doesn't really make sense. I'd prefer if there was a way to set that to running forward with two arms straight back. Guess that might make more sense also as a tweak for an anime-type ninja run, but still thing it would be better, or maybe as the option when used in conjunction with SS or something. Or selectable like the fly poses are.
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It doesn't work with CJ because you can't do CJ+SJ. Castle said it's by design.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
I've petitioned several times and brought this subject up many times and i fullheartedly agree. It makes ZERO sense that it won't work with other movement powers. When SJ and SS can work at the same time, there makes no sense why ninja run wouldn't with them as well. Classify'ingly.
But the fact that it doesn't work with combat jumping just APALLS me. And makes no sense either. Very annoying having to toggle back and forth between the two especially when using CJ for its defense as well. |
NR is a poor man's travel power. It's not something meant to enhance your current travel powers and give you an advantage. It's not meant to be used in combat and allow you bonus move and run speed unsuppressed. It's meant to be SJ before you get SJ, or SS before you get SS.
It's weaker than SS and SJ because it's free. If it did the things you said, it would give an actual advantage and be too powerful. It's meant to be better than not having a travel power, but not as good as having a REAL travel power. You CAN opt to rely on NR instead of taking a normal travel power, but it's weaker. It's a tradeoff, not a pure advantage.
If NR stacked with SS, SJ, or CJ or didn't suppress it would need to be nerfed, and I don't want that.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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i have a Night Widow alt who relied on CJ+Swift+Hurdle for most travel at least partially due to concept. While much more Gatchaman or Casshern than Naruto inspired, the concept was traveling by anime-style ninja-leaping. NR is the perfect power for her, but now i think i will change my slotting. With just the assorted movement boosts and Combat Jumping it's very hard to land on small ledges because the slightest key tap while airborne is a big shift on position. With NR now giving the travel speed i want i think i'll take a slot out of Hurdle or use an alternate slotting for some of the movement bonus sets so that i can actually aim for ledges again and not overshoot constantly.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
You CAN opt to rely on NR instead of taking a normal travel power, but it's weaker. It's a tradeoff, not a pure advantage.
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A pity that none of the costume pieces in the set fit the character's look, but Ninja Run is perfect.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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CJ isn't a travel power though, its combat movement. You could argue having Ninja run supress, but not that it doesn't work with combat jumping.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
It doesn't work with CJ because you can't do CJ+SJ. Castle said it's by design.
NR is a poor man's travel power. It's not something meant to enhance your current travel powers and give you an advantage. It's not meant to be used in combat and allow you bonus move and run speed unsuppressed. It's meant to be SJ before you get SJ, or SS before you get SS. |
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| It's weaker than SS and SJ because it's free. |
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I tried ninja run on one of my toons with Swift and Hurdle... and geez its FAST. Swift, Hurdle, Sprint, and then Ninja Run all at the same time was damn near close to base super speed if not the same. I had a hoot just running and jumping all over Kings Row with him
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Yes I can. CJ+SJ doesn't work. NR is a mini version of SS+SJ. Therefore, it doesn't stack with CJ, because SJ doesn't.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
CJ isn't a travel power though, its combat movement. You could argue having Ninja run supress, but not that it doesn't work with combat jumping.
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| EXCUSE ME??? Since WHEN is ten dollars FREE??? |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I agree with Dispari on if it comboed with CJ/SJ/SS that NR would be over the top as far as travel power goes...but as far as the "weaker" is concerned...not so much. Well...maybe in some ways. When compared to SJ/SJ....most certainly. When compared to Fly...some give and take there.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
It doesn't work with CJ because you can't do CJ+SJ. Castle said it's by design.
NR is a poor man's travel power. It's not something meant to enhance your current travel powers and give you an advantage. It's not meant to be used in combat and allow you bonus move and run speed unsuppressed. It's meant to be SJ before you get SJ, or SS before you get SS. It's weaker than SS and SJ because it's free. If it did the things you said, it would give an actual advantage and be too powerful. It's meant to be better than not having a travel power, but not as good as having a REAL travel power. You CAN opt to rely on NR instead of taking a normal travel power, but it's weaker. It's a tradeoff, not a pure advantage. If NR stacked with SS, SJ, or CJ or didn't suppress it would need to be nerfed, and I don't want that. |
Fly certainly has the advantage of Z-movement (up)...course...it had that over pretty much EVERYTHING short of teleporting up there. No big surprise there. Speed wise..they come out fairly evenly with similar slottings (assuming you slot up hurdle, swift, and possibly sprint...flavors vary). At least with the flat out running. Several of my toons i've tweaked NR style have ended up with capped Jumping speed...which is pretty nice. My former flying blaster, turned NR'er, pretty much kept up with his SJ'ing duo partner all night long last night...where before he lagged behind a bit. This was mostly due to his capped jumping speed. Now how long it REMAINS capped is to be seen...he just dinged level 30 last night.
My Elec/Elec Stalker is by FAR the fastest i've managed with 71-72mph running speed and capped jumping speed that's faster than he runs. Granted this took some serious slotting that most sane people would probably avoid...but i'm a speed freak that likes to mess with slottings. Still...even after the re-arrangement...he's still not gimpy as far as i'm concerned. He still kicks much booty in his tried and true style of ***-kickery.
SJ, and SS it ain't in alotta respects. Poor man's travel power...meh...kinda...depends on how you look at it, i suppose. Needs some lovin via slotting a couple of different powers that you have already or were going to pick anyway (fitness)...certainly doesn't hurt.
My only thing with it is this...it was released SSSSOOO close to my 60 month badge so i could get a travel with one power selection! Oh...the sheer irony...HAHA!
As a side note...in a somewhat ironic turn of events...NR DOES stack with the Warshade's Nebulous Form (their phasing power that gives a bonus to jump height and speed, for those not in the know). Granted...this is on an AT with an inherent TELEPORT...but still...kinda nifty. As an added bonus though, when you think about it, NR does give the warshade a bit of speedy movement inside mission without having to resort to teleport to keep up with people (REALLY handy for indoor missions) free of cost. My warshade had SS before this...which i dropped. Might drop a +Stealth enhancement in sprint or swift to combo with Shadow Cloak for invisi- goodness.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yes I can. CJ+SJ doesn't work. NR is a mini version of SS+SJ. Therefore, it doesn't stack with CJ, because SJ doesn't.
Uh, free in the sense that it doesn't require two power picks or a pool usage. Not in the doesn't cost any money sense, obviously. You pay for the advantage of having a travel power that doesn't cost anything on your character. To make it better than someone who actually does have stuff on their character would be unfairly powerful. |
Considering ANYONE can purshase the ninja pack, no it doesn't
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So... you want them to start giving powers out for real world money? Make it a REAL have and have not situation?|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Considering ANYONE can purshase the ninja pack, no it doesn't
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Heck... no. I'm fine with there being these fun little extras to these packs, but if they overomce regular things that come with the game... that's just bad. My biggest beef with the body slider change being packaged in with the Science Booster is that that should have been part of the game, not part of a booster. And that's not even close to what it would be if Ninja Run was somehow better than the other Travel powers in game.
There are a lot of other options for travel in the game already, so having something fun like Ninja Run is a nice bonus that isn't an issue in that regard.
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This would cross a line for me too. Once you start selling powers that have a major effect on in-combat gameplay then you're just a step away from selling purple enhancements, selling xp-boosts, selling bonus powers for existing powersets, or selling whole levels. And if you go that far you might as well just sell pre-levelled characters at L50. Those are things I never want to see in a pay-to-play subscription MMO. Those things can stay in free-to-play MMOs as their primary method of revenue collection - where I don't have to deal with them |
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
So... you want them to start giving powers out for real world money? Make it a REAL have and have not situation?
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But it's a horrid slippery slope and I've always hated RMT in the kneejerk way that many do, because I want games to be inherently fair and distinct from the economic realities of the real world. But while I feel Paragon Studios are running it awful close to the line I don't think they've crossed it yet - not in my mind - and I have faith in their judgement.
In fact I don't know whether to laugh or cry when, in the comments on MMO websites like Massively and MMORPG.com etc., I see posters lumping in CoH with games like CO, EQ & EQ2 as one of the AAA MMORPGs that has already sold out by having RMT on top of a subscription, with reference to our super-boosters.
Sure it's RMT of a kind (but then so is selling character slots, server transfers, etc. - and most MMOs have those kinds of transactions these days), but because super-boosters feel like mini-expansions to me, because we get so much stuff in them, I don't feel like I'm being milked of money like I might if stuff was sold an item at a time (like DDO Unlimited does) - nickel & diming, as I believe you might say in the US. If super-boosters were being launched more frequently than once every few months then I might change my mind. Plus I don't mind mild RMT for aesthetic items - it's power-affecting items (specifically combat-affecting) I don't want to see sold.
My feelings may also speak of my confidence in this Dev team and their relationship with NCSoft as much as anything else - I don't feel exploited or pressured to buy these optional extras to keep up with the playerbase - though admittedly I have bought everything so far except the Wedding Pack (and the Ninja Pack, but I will be buying that once I can play again), so maybe I'm just hooked and I'm lying to myself to justify.
Like I said, it's a slippery slope and I do believe we're already on it - sadly I do see a time when most AAA MMOs in the West go with a box purchase + subscription + RMT model, and get away with it, despite the whining from players - I think it will become the standard. I hate it, but I don't think we as players can do much about it now unless we boycott all the games with it en masse (yeah, like that's going to happen...).
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Whoa you're totally misreading what I was saying. First off, its STILL the case, where anyone can purchase it, whatever benefit we have it giving us. To say its an "unfair advantage" considering ANYONE can get it, is entirely untrue.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
So... you want them to start giving powers out for real world money? Make it a REAL have and have not situation?
Heck... no. I'm fine with there being these fun little extras to these packs, but if they overomce regular things that come with the game... that's just bad. My biggest beef with the body slider change being packaged in with the Science Booster is that that should have been part of the game, not part of a booster. And that's not even close to what it would be if Ninja Run was somehow better than the other Travel powers in game. There are a lot of other options for travel in the game already, so having something fun like Ninja Run is a nice bonus that isn't an issue in that regard. |
Secondly, I wasn't saying it as much as you're thinking. I was exclaiming that it should work with cj, which, wow adds 1MPH to it travel speedwise. And a fractional height amount that with NR and hurdle would be nominally unnoticeable. The big BEEF I have with it is that especially in missions when having CJ on especially for its defense bonus how you have to annoying detoggle it to switch to NR and back constantly is annoying and completely unnecessary.
I could semi-understand it not working with SJ/SS etc, but even then it thematically and mechanically makes no sense. But CJ it should definitely be able to work with, thematically which it makes the most sense out of any of them as well either.
And 100% agreed on the character size scale slider, that should have always been a standard in game attribute, not on a separate pack.
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Truth is, while everyone technically CAN buy the packs, there's still a fair margin of the playerbase that doesn't or can't spring for the extra stuff. It happens a lot more in newer players, who come in and notice that there's currently $70 worth of packs. In the future this may be a lot higher. One of my annoyances with GW was that new players coming in had to spend like $150 to get the whole game.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Whoa you're totally misreading what I was saying. First off, its STILL the case, where anyone can purchase it, whatever benefit we have it giving us. To say its an "unfair advantage" considering ANYONE can get it, is entirely untrue.
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Since not everyone buys it, and we're talking real money, the safest bet is to give out non-impacting items like fluffy emotes and costume parts. This is the main draw of the packs. People who just love to make their toons look pretty pay extra to get some cute pieces. But nobody's gaining combat bonuses or being able to solo AVs easier because they have a frilly new dress.
Each pack has a power, which is minor impact. They're designed that way so that the pay pack people get a small perk, but nothing that dramatically changes how they get to play the game. SD is cute but pretty much useless in nearly all situations (except to save you some debt if you're already going to die). Mission teleporter saves some time, but not that much. Mystic Fortune is a cool buff, but it's random and minor, and in my experience people usually forget they have it and don't keep people buffed. Body tailor is another costume-related perk which has no in-combat use. And NR is a perk for people who have no travel power, but isn't as good as a real travel power.
What you're asking for is to make it be a clear advantage over everyone, whether they have a travel power or not. You're asking for it to stack and allow people with SS to go faster, and SJ to go faster. Right now it's only a pure advantage over people who don't get a travel power at all, and is an alternative to getting a real travel power at the expense of being slower and unslottable. Right now it's not an advantage, but a tradeoff. What you're asking for is for it to just be a pure advantage to anyone and everyone who didn't or can't pay for the pack. And sets a bad precedent.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Quickness Three-Slotted
Swift Three-Slotted
Hurdle Three-Slotted
Sprint Three-Slotted
Ninja Run
70 mph
Elude
Speed Cap (91.5 at level 48)
of which, only 20 mph (ninja-run) is suppressed when I attack.
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