Disappointed

Rogues are Villains, Vigilantes are Heroes. It's only when you take that final critical step and switch sides that all of your affiliations change.

So if a Villain became a Rogue and went to Paragon City and entered Siren's Call from the Hero end, would they be flagged as a villain and be vaporized by the sentry drones?

That's actually a good question that I don't know the answer to.

Well, if that certain other game is an MMO, presumably the freakin point is that you can see everybody else's character from the front.

Hilarious, to the point where I wish no one (dev or player) had thought of it until it started happening in beta, but kind of silly.

Which also doesn't happen because, on the rare occasion you don't want to stab them in that same face for ninjaing your open-world objective, you're still looking at their backs as you face a common threat.

Face animations are good for one thing and one thing only - cutscenes. Since we have, like, five of them here and none feature closeups, I don't see the point. I'd much rather have the ability for my WHOLE HEAD to track whatever I have targeted, since that I can clearly see, or for my damn waist to articulate when I turn and my legs to step rather than slide, than for me to have facial expressions I'll never be close enough to see.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Heh, it is the kind of thing I could see slipping through the cracks during a busy beta.

/bug "Uh, drones keep killing me when I try to PvP..."

Awesome. Can't wait for beta.

Which is why I'd suggest that Rogues can't enter PvP zones as Heroes, and Vigilantes can't enter them as Villains - an in-game explaination could be that Longbow wouldn't trust a Rogue enough to let them in, and Arachnos wouldn't trust a Vigilante.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

They have already stated that they will have one side only content as well in order to give you a incentive to stay a pure hero or villain. As in you have to go all the way to one side to partake in whatever they design.

Interesting. I must have missed that. Let's hope that's new content and not just re-labelled old content. Then again, perhaps that's why the old arcs were re-labelled hero or villain? Food for thought...

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Starcraft, Diablo and CounterStrike are probably the top 3 examples. And there are so many more.

I don't think that is true for the average player. Its questionable *how much* graphical fidelity is necessary for the average player, but there is no question that for probably the majority of them the visual elements of the game "sell" the game mechanics. You don't really need, in the abstract sense, for Martial Arts to play *any* animation: you could just click the power, and then floating numbers appear over the target's head. But the animations are what sell the overall gaming experience. Same thing for the fiery effects on targets of fire attacks, the explosive effect nova generates, the arrows that archery fires.


Actually, I notice and appreciate the graphics (I'm impressed with the visual improvements made in Ultra-mode: nice work there Type-Rs) and I wouldn't characterize myself as a "flightly player." I consider it as much a part of the story-telling and game-mechanical toolbox as the writing and the algorithmic mechanics of the game engine.

So much of gameplay is "cosmetic" when you get right down to it. Damage types, for example, are 95% cosmetic in CoH. It only matters that we have more than one. It doesn't matter what they are: call Fire damage "Wedgie damage" or "Damage type 2" and it doesn't matter to the game. The word "fire" in the combat spam is a purely cosmetic tag. Replace the word with something else and the game hums along quite well without noticing. Its sole purpose is evocative: Fire damage (as a game design type) obeys no different rules than Ice or Psionic damage does.

If I were designing a game from scratch today, I would probably focus *more* on the visual appearance elements of the game design than CoH did. Specifically, in the area of how visual appearance can often "sell" game mechanics better than fine numerical tweaking can, and can act as a very high-value multiplier for game design diversity.

(Coincidentally, I've been thinking very recently about how *reducing* the number of types of things in CoH could counter-intuitively allow for a higher diversity of power effects, by combining a few "core" effects in a lot of permutations with distinguishing visual effects.)

That's interesting. How would chest logos fit into your theory of character appearance priority?

I'll agree to the point that there are things I would rather have first, like flowing hair or better simulated cloth for capes, coats, and skirts/dresses. But I'm not sure I buy the premise that most people don't actually see the fronts of their own or anyone else's characters enough for them to matter. It seems they do matter for a lot of people, whether they see them on a regular basis or not. Facial expressions might be less something that players see, and more something players would feel better knowing their character do, whether they see it for themselves or not.

Uh, no.
If it were a tool I could do something useful with it, like open a bottle.

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Either that, or you simply do not enjoy aesthetics at all as a contributing factor to your entertainment.

I appreciate them until the point where they become wallpaper, which is, in my experience, after a couple of hours of play.

Remember the first time you wandered into Oranbega? How freaking cool it was after hour upon hour spent running missions in offices, warehouses & generic caves?

How long did it take for "hey cool!" to turn into "OMG not this nightmare again!"

Graphics are like that. They give an initial hit of enjoyment, but if what you're doing isn't entertaining they can't make entertaining.

And, for probably the 5th time, I understand the market forces that make giving GR a graphic makeover a smart marketing decision. What I'm saying is that I personally would rather they expend those resources on actual gameplay, instead of a pretty candy coating.

The precise quote was "may be awarded with additional perks". What those perks are is currently speculation, however badges or "pure" Hero/Villain only missions are a possibility.

It also hasn't been specifically stated if a Villain that travels all the way around the half circle to Hero is awarded those perks since he is no longer a Rogue/Vigilante. I would say that at least some options will be unique to Heroes and Villains, though, since they do not get access to all three zones like Vigilantes and Rogues.

Wild speculation: I think Epic and Patron pools MIGHT be one of those "perks". Preatoria may introduce a third set of options.

I've also noticed the missions marked "Hero" and "Villain". It may be that those missions exclude Vigilantes and Rogues, or for instance "Hero" missions exclude Rogues. It may also be that a Vigilante or Rogue doing a Hero mission will gain Hero alignment, and this is how the side shifting process works. If not, then maybe doing regular blue side missions and Hero themed missions in Preatoria earns you Hero alignment.

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat Uh, no. If it were a tool I could do something useful with it, like open a bottle. I appreciate them until the point where they become wallpaper, which is, in my experience, after a couple of hours of play. Remember the first time you wandered into Oranbega? How freaking cool it was after hour upon hour spent running missions in offices, warehouses & generic caves? How long did it take for "hey cool!" to turn into "OMG not this nightmare again!" Graphics are like that. They give an initial hit of enjoyment, but if what you're doing isn't entertaining they can't make entertaining.

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat And, for probably the 5th time, I understand the market forces that make giving GR a graphic makeover a smart marketing decision. What I'm saying is that I personally would rather they expend those resources on actual gameplay, instead of a pretty candy coating.

So you would actually prefer if every single mission in CoH used the generic office map, but each and every single mission in CoH was written by some really over-the-top team of professional writers, and we double the number of missions?

Edit: And I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion. Your opinion is just as valuable as mine (it's worth nothing). I'm just pointing out that your analogy that graphics to a game is like a book cover to a novel is completely and utterly wrong in every way. It's not just PARTIALLY wrong.

That's not actually the graphics fault.

Thats the fault of whatever no-good fleshling intern designed the Oranbega maps, and the offices with those 'snuck away in the corner' pathways which are SO FREAKING HORRIBLE TO NAVIGATE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH...

I hate the Circle of Thorns. No, that's not strong enough. I loathe and detest the Circle of Thorns with every micrfiliment. I hate their ghosts and their horrible resistances and debuffs. I despise their mages and their earthquakes and mental mezzing. But, most of all, I utterly detest their horrible, horrible cavern home with all it's damn labirynthine passages and caverns!

Yes, I'm tired. It's late. I fought Circle earlier on a SSK'd Brute with no mez shield, since he wasn't level 16 yet.
It left a few more scars

Seriously. Oranbega level design is shoddy. Really wish they would make it just a BIT less 'Just show me the damn door OUT, let alone forward!'

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I could not agree more with this.

Good - now we just need to get the devs to agree too

Easiest way to do side switching is to offer repeatable content. CoH/V's familiarity with scaling enemies and missions could mean that side switching is very close to newspaper missions - you get a contact, run a number of missions for them (likely including a "big" one to round off the change) and then you are a bit further down the moral path you want to go.

So you could very easily be fighting similar mobs types at lvl 50 side switching as you would at lvl 20. It'd be the same as fighting Arachnos in CoV.

I don't think it was confirmed, but the only way I can see side switching missions work is if they are repeatable content.