Ice slows enemy attack rates down and so is not much good for fury building.
Claws is a pretty quick set and is probably going to be really good for fury.
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There are plenty of primaries that slow fury generation currently. It's a pretty silly argument that Ice will be much worse.
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Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
Ice slows enemy attack rates down and so is not much good for fury building.
Claws is a pretty quick set and is probably going to be really good for fury. |
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That however was why Ice was removed from Brutes During COV Beta, of course in all reality there are plenty of Sets that ATs have that just don't work well on them so it is an argument that does not hold very much weight these days.
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Originally Posted by Ahmon
There are plenty of primaries that slow fury generation currently. It's a pretty silly argument that Ice will be much worse.
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Ice/Ice was initially removed from Brutes in COV beta due to an early design decision.
The main reason why we don't have Ice Brutes now: Hasn't been proliferated yet.
Ice Armor would be pretty fun. Spines/Ice would be hilarious.
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-rech in ice armor breaks fury. it was tested and proven in beta and thusly removed.
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Originally Posted by Artic_Chill_44
Why is it that brutes dont get ice/ice , why gets lol claws
 and tanks get elec/elec :/ ? |
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I believe the mechanics with fury were also later changed to include attacks you deal as well, so the results in beta may no longer apply. As there are many attack chains that have quick attacks, there are sets out there that let you sustain high levels of fury without being attacked. For example, take a DM/SR brute out to a rikti pylon and see for yourself. Most of that fury is being generated by you, not the pylon.| -rech in ice armor breaks fury. it was tested and proven in beta and thusly removed. |
I think the reasons why we don't look at ice armor again have to do with our wannabe-ice Energy Aura. I still personally think we should.
Yep, was in a group where I was buffed to like 60% def and with fault, half the mobs were disoriented anyway. Was still at full fury.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
Defense has absolutely nothing to do with Fury generation.
Been plaing my Ice/Axe Tanker and finally hit 30- and now I want an Ice Brute. Ice Melee from what I hear is one of the faster sets anyway, -slow effects can't be as bad for fury building as say, the Disorient effects of EA or knockback from several other sets.
I just want Ice Melee on a melee AT that I like.
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Well that is not entirely true, but it's impact is very small now. When CoV was released, the fury mechanic was completely unfriendly to high Def sets. If you didn't get hit, you didn't get fury. Ice Armor, Ice Melee, and specifically the combo Ice/Ice would have meant almost no fury. The incoming damage would have been slow, and with the high def, if built right, almost non-existant. When they changed the mechanic, Def sets became viable. |
Originally Posted by Ahmon
Defense has absolutely nothing to do with Fury generation.
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Def can slow fury generation, you aren't getting hit as much, but is really not an issue if you have a competent attack chain.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
I don't buy the argument that -rech would make for a terrible Brute at all. Why would it? Because enemies can't attack if their powers are down? So what? My Mace/Dark leaves the enemy stunned almost all the time. If I can roll that and that passes muster, why not Ice?
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Originally Posted by _Deth_
Def can slow fury generation, you aren't getting hit as much, but is really not an issue if you have a competent attack chain.
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Defense still does not matter whether you get Fury or not.
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A hit check, any hit check by you or an enemy generates fury. Defense does not matter.|
Originally Posted by Ethric
Defense still does not matter whether you get Fury or not.
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Anyways, the -rech from Ice armor hurting fury so bad is stupid.
1. Give us the powersets, and let us make the choice then. You can purposefully gimp your AT anyways, whats the big deal?
2. /Dark has two mez toggles, how is having practically an entire mob not attacking you at all any worse than practically having the entire mob attacking you slower?
Or maybe a tweak to the mechanics of fury generation. For example, fury can generated by having mobs around, or based on the hate list, instead of using mob attacks as part of the generation.
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I don't think the fury mechanics would need to be tweaked. If they aren't attacking you enough, you just need MOAR MOBS.|
Originally Posted by Twilight_Snow
Or maybe a tweak to the mechanics of fury generation. For example, fury can generated by having mobs around, or based on the hate list, instead of using mob attacks as part of the generation.
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I've been wanting an ice cube with a fire sword since I heard about ice armor.
If the devs were turned off by the antifury Ice/Ice why not increase the fury values for Ice/Ice so that in Fury 2.0 the ice attacks build fury faster to counteract the fact that the Ice/ will slow the targets and reducing the fury built on their end?
I would kill a few babies to get an Ice Brute
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There really is no reason anymore. Originally we could not have axe/mace/bs/any weapons because they apparently hurt fury due to redraw. Now we have them. We also have had dark armor since day 1 of COV and it has two powers that disorient and fear mobs, meaning they can't attack you. We also have DB which in my opinion is terrible for fury unless you ignore the combos.
It's true, my Mace/Dark has terrible fury building, because stunned guys don't attack that often. But Ice/Ice can't get any worse than that, and if I'm allowed to play Mace/Dark in spite of low fury generation, why not Ice/Ice?
Also, on a tangent, my Dual Blades is almost always at capped Fury. Sweep is awesome.
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I think that's going a bit too far. Arbitrary assignment of values isn't a great thing in a lot of cases, so unless you can hammer out a formula that includes all the anti-Fury secondary effects, I don't think it's a fair way to go.|
Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
If the devs were turned off by the antifury Ice/Ice why not increase the fury values for Ice/Ice so that in Fury 2.0 the ice attacks build fury faster to counteract the fact that the Ice/ will slow the targets and reducing the fury built on their end?
I would kill a few babies to get an Ice Brute |
I still think they need to peg Fury generation for attacking to activation times, though!
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Originally Posted by Blood_Spectre
I don't buy the argument that -rech would make for a terrible Brute at all. Why would it? Because enemies can't attack if their powers are down? So what? My Mace/Dark leaves the enemy stunned almost all the time. If I can roll that and that passes muster, why not Ice?
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Originally Posted by biff10426
A hit check, any hit check by you or an enemy generates fury. Defense does not matter.
Anyways, the -rech from Ice armor hurting fury so bad is stupid. 1. Give us the powersets, and let us make the choice then. You can purposefully gimp your AT anyways, whats the big deal? 2. /Dark has two mez toggles, how is having practically an entire mob not attacking you at all any worse than having practically having the entire mob attacking you slower? |
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Originally Posted by Ahmon
I think that's going a bit too far. Arbitrary assignment of values isn't a great thing in a lot of cases, so unless you can hammer out a formula that includes all the anti-Fury secondary effects, I don't think it's a fair way to go.
I still think they need to peg Fury generation for attacking to activation times, though! |
If they reintroduced it, it would not have the problems now that it had then.
I want them to make it available as well.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
I think we're all in agreement.
BUT AND HOWEVER
I seem to distinctly recall the very first Powerset Proliferation (I12 I believe) they specifically said they weren't going to do Ice for Brutes because it sucked for Fury. They explained this then in the announcement of how Proliferation was going to work. I do not believe there have been signifigant changes to Fury since I12, but I could be in error in that regard.
If Fury hasn't changed since then, then we have to assume that the Devs either know something that we can't figure out, or that we've outsmarted them, and they owe us bonus Ice powers in I16.
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All this is moot any which way because we all know that Ice would be soooo much better on Stalkers. Slowing Fury, although passable with a proper attack chain, is still relevant to a brute's EARLY development. I couldn't possibly imagine the frustration in slowing your enemies when you only have two or so primary attacks at level 8. Your fury wouldn't generate very well. Plus, not enough smash, which is a reason I'm upset about Claws joining the brute powersets.
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Originally Posted by Deft_Bow
All this is moot any which way because we all know that Ice would be soooo much better on Stalkers. Slowing Fury, although passable with a proper attack chain, is still relevant to a brute's EARLY development. I couldn't possibly imagine the frustration in slowing your enemies when you only have two or so primary attacks at level 8. Your fury wouldn't generate very well. Plus, not enough smash, which is a reason I'm upset about Claws joining the brute powersets.
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Once again I will repeat this until it sinks in. I AM PLAYING A BRUTE WITH POWERS THAT ALMOST COMPLETELY RETARD MY FURY GENERATION RIGHT NOW.
Stunned enemies do not attack. Enemies are very nearly perma stunned in melee with me. I generate dick for Fury with what I have right now.
So the argument that we can't choose a powerset combo which is bad for fury doesn't hold water. We obviously can, so since that is the case, bring on the Ice.
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Why is it that brutes dont get ice/ice , why gets lol claws
and tanks get elec/elec :/ ?
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