I keep foiling AE teams

"i'm not saying that you ARE trash, just that you're acting like it (you trash)"

/rant (sorta)
Very true. It's like the nosy neighbor calling the city cause your grass is an inch over the city ordinance. Now I could understand if this was an exploit like the mitos, but farming isn't an exploit, in fact quite a few I have been on are quite funny with an interesting story line. So while you click away at your "Report This Arc" button just remember that you are actually helping by desensitizing the Customer Support. But on the other hand I do have to congratulate you for showing the other players that there is more than MA. I just can't understand why people always have to tattle(non criminal word more in line with this childish way of thinking) on people who aren't doing anything wrong. Some people actually "enjoy" farming... I know I know how could they enjoy running from mob to mob mowing down enemies with little or no effort... I feel the same way about people who like olives...Yuck! but the weird thing is there are people on this earth that like olives... I don't get it but it's true... So do me a favor, the next time you hit the button think... am I really doing this to help people or am I doing this out of some childish need to inflict my will on other people (or there is my other theory that they are jealous because they have to work so hard and get little while farmers get alot for little work... but I'll save that for another time..) If you find that the second(or third) is more true then just lead the group on to another area or make an insightful fun arc to lead them to like their non-farming messiah. Either way only report if there is an exploit or a blatant form of copyright-infringement an i mean an exploit you can explain not "but it's a small map, with a bunch of tightly clustered groups with ambushes!"

/end rant

Disclaimer: Due to the rant like nature of this post I can not be held responsible for the spelling or grammar in this post. If you choose to reply about either let it be known that I will look at you, stick my right thumb to the end of my nose, wiggle all other fingers upright in the air and blow a raspberry at you! lol

We seem to be using two very different applications of the term here.

Farming originated as kind of counter-term to the MMO "hunt" where you went off, tracked down a challenging encounter or quest item, and killed it. Farming at that time meant where you eliminated the factors: the searching and the challenging encounters, and simply "cultivated" a spot or a series of spots for maximum XP reward for minimum investment. It was originally very negative in context because you're getting more reward for less risk. In many cases the developers have had to take action as this max/min'ing has reached exploitative levels.

It doesn't help that many of the people DOING the AE activities that the devs have since clearly stated as exploitative (and taken action against) as "farms." To quite a few of us, that cemented the association of "exploit" with "farm" (particularly as having "farm" in your searchable terms was a good way to get flagged as an exploiting mission. To us, if it wasn't exploitative, it wasn't a farm.

Like many things though, there are plenty of borderline activities: repeating the same mission, but keeping it challenging... not exploitative, so not a "farm" to us, but it's the term that many people started using to describe their actions, either in defiance of the original definition or in ignorance of it.


Thus, to you, "reporting a farm" means harassing an innocent action whereas I wouldn't consider anyone doing what you describe as reportable either, but I'd report farming that fit my description of the term.

Have you ever heard of a non-exploitative farm getting deleted?

(This is an honest question. I don't actually know what the GMs will and won't delete.)

(flinches)

Damn, I really didn't want it to sound like that.

I was trying to avoid the "police state" arguments of going with "neighborhood watch" too strongly. It was meant to be more like "if you feel like we're treating you like trash (forcing you to be the outsider that's being tossed away) then I can't stop you from having that feeling."

Looking back, I gotta apologize if it came out worse than that, nethergoat. Not my intent, honestly.

Said much better than I...

Accurate terminology describing a specific action, i/e informing on other members of your clique/faction/demographic.
Whether or not you feel justified and righteous in your actions, it's still informing and use of unflattering synonyms by someone who disagrees with the pursuit is completely justified.

In my experience, those who go in for informing usually buy the whole package.
If you're not one of the folk who get their jollies reporting 'copywrite infringing' characters, then I apologize.


Your choice of metaphor made the intent crystal clear.
Unless you just have a very loose command of the written word?

If you don't like the suit, don't wear it around town.
(this is an example of how you can use a descriptive phrase without freighting it with an insulting subtext.)

Everyone here is judged by their posts.
When I use unflattering synonyms for proud, self-confessed informants, I'm interpreting what they happily admit they are. They see their position in one light, I see it in another. But we both agree on what their actions are and I meant exactly what I said.

But when you equate players with criminals and garbage, that's not supposed to be what you meant at all.

Yeah, sure.

Not that I know of... Actually if I am correct if it turns out the mission is found nonexploitive by customer service then it gets flagged as non-bannable until it gets changed by the owner. My problem roots in this overwhelming thought that farming is bad. Which I can roughly understand, but it really isn't. It's just a play style no different then the person that likes to read every part of a story arc for the story. I personally have a middle of the road attitude on it. I just play what i like and as long as it's not hurting me I just don't worry about it.

Why?

Because he says it is.

I believe you're right. The flag is something like 'Passed content review'.

Look at it this way.

1. Nobody, no matter how pro-farming they are, is supporting exploitative farms.

2. Farms that aren't exploitative don't get deleted, no matter how often someone reports them.

So anyone objecting to people reporting farms is either covertly supporting exploits, or protesting an action that did nothing but use up the reporter's time.

I envision PB in a burlap sack with a big stick in his hand leading people out into Atlas Park screaming "LET MY PEOPLE GO!"

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

Is it important or not that I picture people as looking like their forum avatars?

So... all CoH players are part of the same clique/faction/demographic?

Thanks, I needed a laugh.

And anyone reporting a farm not an exploit is wasting Gm time and money. Not to mention trying to decide what content who can play when.

Actually, I equated YOUR choice of terminology as one frequented by juveniles and criminals, which is factually correct. The terms you chose originated in and are still most associated with juveniles and criminals. You choose the association with your selection of the wording. I even inquired as to why you chose to use such negatively-loaded terms (and it wasn't rhetorical, I do wonder).

I also said, "Of course, if you feel more like "the trash" than the community, you're entitled to those feelings." I apologized for any misunderstanding, but as you continue to address it and challenge my mastery of the written language, let's read exactly what that says.

IF YOU FEEL MORE LIKE "THE TRASH"
A conditional statement, If in this situation (not stating the situation is true), you feel like (your feelings, not mine) the trash (the stuff that's being policed in the community-policed metaphor). Nowhere there does it imply that I think you are the trash or that I consider you or anyone else to be the trash. It acknowledges, though, that you may legitimately feel like you're being treated as such.


THAN THE COMMUNITY
comparing feelings of being the outcast to feelings of being a communty member. Implies that there may be feelings of prosecution, of being an outsider, of being excluded.

YOU'RE ENTITLED TO THOSE FEELINGS
I do not have a right to challenge those feelings. I neither endorse them nor discourage them. They are yours.

Of course, that right doesn't extend to distorting my (albiet easily-misused) words to imply an insult on others. That's why I keep coming back to them
-------------------------------------------

Getting kinda back on topic

I have a question that's related to the miscommunication here.

"Farming"

I still default to the "exploit" association unless context says otherwise (historically, I've only experienced the term with dev-verified expliots -from gold farm, to Drek farm, etc.) I've been aware that the meaning has been evolving for some time, and some people use it without ANY idea of it's association with exploitative behavior. How do you use it?

It seems that much of this debate is really between the two meanings, with many of us seeing someone reporting a "farm" meaning "reporting an exploit" while others see it as wastefully reporting a totally innocent bystander.

Looks like it, doesn't it? Perhaps we need some nice clear guidelines about 'what to report and what not to'.

No, that decision is out of the player's hands. The Devs, not the players, decide what's appropriate for the MA and what's not. The most any one person can do is help the Devs achieve their aims. They don't get to decide anything.

World conquest? I'm not so sure that's something we should encourage.

Legend has it that if they are not given tribute of fruit baskets, they will arise and devour the living. Except for Sexy Jay who probably prefers fondant fancies.

I believe we are in complete agreement - that might wreck this thread two people agreeing

Given the world's current state, one ruled by our devs would be...

...well...

a wreck, a total absolute mess of epic proportions... so business as usual, really.

But it'd be a a FUN wreck.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Devs Nor'cal wgah'nagl fhtagn?

Yeah - what are rules for anyway. If you see someone breaking into your neighbors house at night - just let it be. You don't want to be a rat, do you?

(/end sarc)