wow, lots of hate going on in this thread.
All I have to add at this point is on my Mind/FF I probably would have done the same thing. and I have *lots* of control options.
There are just certain times when force bubble is your best option.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
Well a Tank without Taunt is like an Emp Defender without any heals or buffs, you did what you thought was best....so meh, your better off without that team. You tried to make-up for the Tanks short comings and it worked. Seems like he was built for soloing and possible PvPing. The RttC aura does more Regenerating then actual taunting...at least effective taunting that is when it comes to the Willpower secondary set for Tankers.
As for the comments replied back and forth, it the tank can be testy and you can't in return...then it's the player's attitude for "Can dish it out, but not take it" that applies. You at least pushed them into a corner which is more than the Tanker did, so as long as you don't have it on constantly, like you said you didn't, that's fine by me.
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Bexactly. I was playing a mind controller the other day, and the tank kept wanting to corner herd the spawns, which was fine, except that he kept dropping half the spawns on the way to the corner, which scattered them all over the place. So I started applying mass hyp before the tank got there, and the rest of the team slaughtered the spawns. The final straw for that tank was when I TK'd about 10 mobs he missed into a corner. Then he started to rant bigtime. So I quit after the mission was over. I got a tell about 10 minutes later from someone that was on that team asking me to join up, as the team had disintegrated.
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Originally Posted by LimitingFactor
If you pump out happy green numbers? "thx 4 heals"
If you peel the team off the floor with a spatula? "thx 4 rez" But god help you if your job is to actively prevent damage, or if you make everyone else kill things faster, or if you personally stop a team wipe with creative application of powers. At best you won't get any thanks - TA's EMP Arrow is an awesome "hey guys you might want to rethink that last strategic move" power, but nobody ever realizes you've used it - and at worst they'll come down with an incurable case of Stupid and scream at you for the cardinal sin of doing your job by defending their poor tender faces before they kick you. Teams that don't know when the defender just saved them by using a power they're either not used to, not expecting, have never seen before, or have never seen used properly deserve to be educated. The ones that refuse said education deserve the frequent hospital visits and the lingering taste of Pine-Sol in their mouths. Simple as that. |
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I have to agree here.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
You're purposely making playing a melee AT not fun anymore by simply using force bubble and you're being a jerk when asked to stop using it. Yes I would have kicked you immediately for such an attitude.
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It's MUCH more fun when a defender does NOT use his powers and I, as the melee AT watch helplessly as the 17 or 18 Freakshows I couldn't contain go over to the rest of my team and wipe them all over the floor.
Good times.
/endsarcasm
I would have been grateful for the FF defender to help out a bit... even if I was the tank.
A team is just that... a group of people with the same motivation to reach a common goal... not a group of people there to make sure the melee AT shines in every single battle.
Or perhaps I've been playing wrong these last four years.
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I got a request to turn on Force Bubble in the standard Infernal mish last night. Sure, it was for a small team with an Assault Rifle blaster "tanking" the AV (who, of course, wasn't repelled).
Side question, which I couldn't get a clear answer on earlier: Is Repulsion Field a clone of Kinetics' Repel? I haven't taken RF because I fear that it is, and as such would be a lousier positioning tool than Force Bubble.
(Afterwards: "Man, those ffs increase our survivability so much. Are they hopped up on IOs?")
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Repulsion Field is the same as Repel from kinetics, but it's not about positioning, it's purely about damage mitigation since it spams a base mag 6 KB (16 mag 3 slotted with SOs) every 0.5 seconds. Neither Force Bubble or Repulsion Field should be needed in normal missions if you're tossing Repulsion Bombs, shielding your teammates and keeping Dispersion up. |
Originally Posted by Reptlbrain
I got a request to turn on Force Bubble in the standard Infernal mish last night. Sure, it was for a small team with an Assault Rifle blaster "tanking" the AV (who, of course, wasn't repelled).
Side question, which I couldn't get a clear answer on earlier: Is Repulsion Field a clone of Kinetics' Repel? I haven't taken RF because I fear that it is, and as such would be a lousier positioning tool than Force Bubble. (Afterwards: "Man, those ffs increase our survivability so much. Are they hopped up on IOs?") |
In the incredibly rare situation where you need additional mitigation then Repulsion Field ends up being the better option since it actually stops foes from attacking compared to a power that simply forces them to only use ranged attacks. Also using it for positioning foes seems overly pointless when foes are already nicely clumped together foe AoEs before you ever engage them and people always unleash their AoEs right at the start of battle anyway.
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Sorry, but badly built, badly played prima donna tanks are distressingly common.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
In the incredibly rare situation...
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"Oh *BLEEP!* moments on PUGs, even really good ones, are not uncommon.
Having a fielder who actually knows what he's doing and implements flawlessly, saving the team in an "Oh *BLEEP!* situation?
Priceless
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I laugh and /em facepalm simultaneously when reading all the people trying to carry on an intelligent discussion with Turbo Ski. Really, no matter how well written your post is, Turbo Ski will go "/em FingersInEars; /say 'lalalalalalala'" and ignore you. Best bet is just deal with the non-troll posters, folks.
Sorry to hear about that, Fury. Some people don't realize how the powers work, and some tanks are just no good at playing. You are better off not being on that team,anyway.
RagManX
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
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fixed
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Originally Posted by turbo_ski
you're purposely making playing a DEFENDER AT not fun anymore by simply NOT using force bubble and you're being a jerk when asked to TANK. Yes i would have kicked you immediately for such an attitude.
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Some people are A holes and they just want to have the power. Now i can see why you used ur power the way you did and i do know the smug tanks that like to pretend they are a god of some sort. I would of shot back same remark prob with more cussing but i would of also said in same sentence what I was trying to do to give team time to recover. Be glad you got off the team when you did...smug people usually take their whole teams down with them and then blame the ones who are least likely to stand up for themselves. Just make sure you note him as being an A hole and control freak and hope one day he needs a team and you can make him remember who you are. 
Being a D0ucheb4g with a piss poor attitude and self inflated ego is more detrimental to a team the play style...
I would have done the same thing, and have with my Bots/FF.
I do the same thing with hurricane when things start getting bad and us squishes are getting hammered.
It sounds like the tank was a typical primadonna who feels the team should revolve around him. Him stating that nobody should "ever" use knockback on a team just proves that he's a total control freak and jerk. I would've waited outside the mission so I could attach a note to him so I would never team with him by accident again.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
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With that statement, I don't think you deserve to have players on your team. The defender in the OP was looking at a potential team wipe and did what a good defender does..... anything necessary to keep the rest of the team alive. You want the rest of the team to die because it's not as much fun for you for a few brief moments while he's saving lives?|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
You're purposely making playing a melee AT not fun anymore by simply using force bubble and you're being a jerk when asked to stop using it. Yes I would have kicked you immediately for such an attitude.
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I'll be so happy when they put the new mechanism in place so people can choose spawn sizes. Then all the scrappers and tanks who feel a team just gets in their way can go play by themselves.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
To the OP:
Another strategy is to stand away from the tank, and then activate force bubble. You can tell the team that your force bubble is activated, people can hide inside to avoid melee aggro. Your decision to push the mobs to a corner is also ok. I might have done the same thing as well. Sometimes, there are chemistries in the team that doesn't mix well. 
Well thats never happened to me. But i was on a team with a dude using caltrops not the exact same thing cuz then they scatter but yea. The dude was like 30 vet or something and the Tank told him. (We were also on a farm atm) So then tank said Plz no more caltrops and so did the fire/kin. Then he said and "O.K". So we ran into another group not even 7 seconds into the mob another pair of caltrops went flying. So almost but not really quite same thing. Your sounds unreasonable and mine sounds EXACTLY reasonable.
I'm Havok Charge, pay no attention to the "Mr. Gangstar" I was young.
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Hmmm... I mainly play the buff/debuff ATs but your first sentence is just silly and wrong. "A tank without taunt is like an emp defender without any heals or buffs."|
Originally Posted by MurderousMalk
Well a Tank without Taunt is like an Emp Defender without any heals or buffs, you did what you thought was best....so meh, your better off without that team. You tried to make-up for the Tanks short comings and it worked. Seems like he was built for soloing and possible PvPing. The RttC aura does more Regenerating then actual taunting...at least effective taunting that is when it comes to the Willpower secondary set for Tankers.
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All 9 (maybe just 8 if you don't count resurrect) of the emp powers are heals or buffs, so (1) it is impossible for an emp not to have some anyway; and (2) this is a whole order of magnitude different from a tanker not just taking 1 power.
Also, you didn't specify which type of tanker anyway.
My 50 ice/ice has had builds with and without taunt. But with chilling embrace + icicles + energy absorption plus various AOEs, my icer is pretty much always has most of the aggro even without taunt.
In short, your statement strikes me as both silly and misinformed.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
@ MrGangster:
Farm dynamics =/= PuG running into, y'know, something surprising (read: challenging)...one PuG leader with an ego getting riled is a different issue to a Farm leader telling someone he's PLing or using to fill to not get in his way.
But you are right about one similarity, they both presume themselves to be Kings of some sort of castle
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You've put your finger in the sore. We have seen from Turbo's previous posts a belief that the single melee toon on the team (the tank's) fun is more important than the entire rest of the team having fun. Turbo has a belief that making sure that tank is having fun is more important than people who are just sitting at the keyboard watching because an inept tank failed miserably at fulfilling his team roll and face planted them. The fun of the other 7 team members is of no consequence when the fun of the tank is threatened in anyway.|
Originally Posted by Barata
With that statement, I don't think you deserve to have players on your team. The defender in the OP was looking at a potential team wipe and did what a good defender does..... anything necessary to keep the rest of the team alive. You want the rest of the team to die because it's not as much fun for you for a few brief moments while he's saving lives?
I'll be so happy when they put the new mechanism in place so people can choose spawn sizes. Then all the scrappers and tanks who feel a team just gets in their way can go play by themselves. |
I think that Turbo is just jealous that an FF/ can pull off a save in this way that a Cold/ can't.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
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Please tell me how "saving the team" and "pinning all the mobs into a corner" is some how bad for melee players and cripples AoE? |
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Repulsion Field is the same as Repel from kinetics, but it's not about positioning, it's purely about damage mitigation since it spams a base mag 6 KB (16 mag 3 slotted with SOs) every 0.5 seconds. Neither Force Bubble or Repulsion Field should be needed in normal missions if you're tossing Repulsion Bombs, shielding your teammates and keeping Dispersion up.
In the incredibly rare situation where you need additional mitigation then Repulsion Field ends up being the better option since it actually stops foes from attacking compared to a power that simply forces them to only use ranged attacks. Also using it for positioning foes seems overly pointless when foes are already nicely clumped together foe AoEs before you ever engage them and people always unleash their AoEs right at the start of battle anyway. |
You are talking absolute rubbish, seriously. Just... wow.
Do you know what you sound like? Someone with a grudge against force bubble who isn't thinking logically.
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Thank you for this information. Definitely not gonna get it.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Repulsion Field is the same as Repel from kinetics,
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| but it's not about positioning, it's purely about damage mitigation since it spams a base mag 6 KB (16 mag 3 slotted with SOs) every 0.5 seconds. |
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Neither Force Bubble or Repulsion Field should be needed in normal missions if you're tossing Repulsion Bombs, shielding your teammates and keeping Dispersion up. In the incredibly rare situation where you need additional mitigation then Repulsion Field ends up being the better option since it actually stops foes from attacking compared to a power that simply forces them to only use ranged attacks. Also using it for positioning foes seems overly pointless when foes are already nicely clumped together foe AoEs before you ever engage them and people always unleash their AoEs right at the start of battle anyway. |
Sometimes spawns are nicely clumped for AoEs. Other times (see, Rikti) they could use a little compacting. Or--on medium teams--two close spawns can be pushed together for more effective AoEing. Teammates scatter mobs all the time. Force Bubble can "correct" these troubles sometimes.
I'm glad that I missed the thread today while driving for 8 hours. It looks like it went from bad to worse, on all sides.
And yes, FF is in fact awesome.
And yes, you CAN in fact keep Force Bubble on ALL THE TIME if you choose to, but you want to know the smart way to do that and keep everyone happy? It was mentioned shortly earlier in the thread.
You turn it on and position yourself JUST RIGHT so that the edge of the Force Bubble meets the melee toons. Then just follow behind at the same distance. All the ranged toons can then sit inside the Force Bubble in relative safety, and the melee toons, who are tougher and can take the extra beating from not being near Dispersion Bubble, can sit outside of it and hack away. Everybody wins.
It's all a matter of playstyle choice.
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Originally Posted by Reptlbrain
Thank you for this information. Definitely not gonna get it.
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Yes Reptlbrain, it IS exactly like Repel. But do you know why I take it and leave it on all the time? Three reasons:
1) It has a SHORT range. Enemies have to be so close that they're almost ready to give you a ****** exam before it activates.
2) It leaves my "hands" free to do other things like blast and Force Bolt. Do I need to save TWO teammates at opposite ends of the room at the same time? Since I already have RF on, I JUMP to teammate #1 and the RF knocks the enemy away while AT THE SAME TIME I'm targetting the enemy killing teammate #2 and Force Bolting him away. I've done this MANY times. Having that freedom is nice.
3) It's AUTOHIT. You read that right. There is no ToHit check, it always hits. The only enemies that won't be knocked away are enemies that actually have KB resistance. It also "stacks" on itself. If you have good enough personal Defense, you can literally go into the Shadow Shard and jump into the middle of a group of Brutes with strong KB resistance and just by sitting there, they'll get knocked down about once every few seconds or so. Because of the stacking. It's nuts.
I highly recommend Repulsion Field to any FFer for at the very least their own personal defense when outside of Personal Force Field.
EDIT: wow, you can't say "ectal with an R" on these boards? It's a scientific name for a human body part!
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Wait, Gale isn't an attack? Dammit, now I have to pull out my 3 slots of damage enhancers that are in it! Boooooo!
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Originally Posted by BubblegumBomb
This story reminds me of a lot of the storm defenders thinking GALE is an attack.. lol
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Basically too many 50's to count, but I'm generally a brute/scrapper/tank kind of guy.
You think Force Bubble is fun? Next time try using Detention Field and see what the team thinks about it
I once used DF on a Freak Tank that got away from the herd and started to take out our blasters. So I DF it. Figuring we could take out the herd first, then focus on the Boss.Big mistake, people got REALLY PISSY, REALLY FAST. Nevermind the fact that the Freak Tank just took out 2 blasters.
I dont have an issue with being asked/suggested to use a power a certain way.
Its when I get the reaction of "OMG WTF ARE U DOING?!?!" or "DONT PUCKING USE KB!" that I start to fill up my ignore list.
I have used Force Bubble many times. Sometimes it worked out as planned and other times, it has gone horribly wrong. Hell, one time I even forgot it was on as we entered the boss room..chaos shortly followed. lol But if I screwed the pooch, I was always the first to admit it.
And any time Turbo_Ski and Philotic Knight are in a thread at the same time...it usually ends up in some type of FF Sux or FF is Awesome Debate. I know these two represent opposite ends of the spectrum when it come to the FF power set. I still think they are evil twins separated at birth. Either way, it makes for good reading
This story reminds me of a lot of the storm defenders thinking GALE is an attack.. lol