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Originally Posted by philoticknight
threads like this are the reason i run my own teams nowadays...
...and ignore turbo_ski. |
agreed.
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i don't understand where you got that impression at all. My reading was that the Tanker had drawn more mobs than he could hold aggro on into the corridor and the Freakshow had started peeling away and dropping squishies.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
If you had read my posts much earlier in the thread, you would have known I thought the OP was full of it from the start.
The only person with a bigger ego than the tanker in the OP's story is the OP himself, that's a red flag right off the bat that he is full of it. Also I would have kicked him regardless of his AT and build if he gave anyone in one of my teams that kind of attitude. |
Force Field Defender turns on Force Bubble (using positioning and an understanding of the game's physics that apparently eludes Turbo) and pushes all the Freakshow into a corner where they were unable to melee the squishies any more. (Freakshow ranged attacks are trivial compared to their melee attacks.) Now i will admit that the Tanker would have had to move a bit to get back into the middle of the mobs and start claiming his lost aggro, but Force Bubble does allow allies freedom of movement.
When herding large numbers of enemies i've seen many Tankers with taunt lose aggro on multiple mobs who then attack other members of the team. Without taunt or a strong taunt aura Gauntlet isn't enough to maintain aggro on large groups if the team has any players with significant AoE damage.
The only real arrogance i've seen displayed on this thread is on Turbo_Ski.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Apparently it eludes you that the OP was being a jerk when asked to stop using Force Bubble. I would have kicked him regardless of his AT or build for that kind of behavior but apparently the majority of the defender boards praises such behavior.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
i don't understand where you got that impression at all. My reading was that the Tanker had drawn more mobs than he could hold aggro on into the corridor and the Freakshow had started peeling away and dropping squishies.
Force Field Defender turns on Force Bubble (using positioning and an understanding of the game's physics that apparently eludes Turbo) and pushes all the Freakshow into a corner where they were unable to melee the squishies any more. (Freakshow ranged attacks are trivial compared to their melee attacks.) Now i will admit that the Tanker would have had to move a bit to get back into the middle of the mobs and start claiming his lost aggro, but Force Bubble does allow allies freedom of movement. When herding large numbers of enemies i've seen many Tankers with taunt lose aggro on multiple mobs who then attack other members of the team. Without taunt or a strong taunt aura Gauntlet isn't enough to maintain aggro on large groups if the team has any players with significant AoE damage. The only real arrogance i've seen displayed on this thread is on Turbo_Ski. |
The kicking part could of been for giving the leader beef rather than using force bubble and so his ego maybe big too, lets not forget that!
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
bleh, why bother...
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Nevermind that the OP could very well be omitting numerous jerk comments before he made the one about force bubble as well.
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Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
The kicking part could of been for giving the leader beef rather than using force bubble and so his ego maybe big too, lets not forget that!
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Force field, and Weather control, (2 of the worst power sets when used badly.) ***NOTE THE BADLY***|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
I would have kicked you too. Force bubble is nothing but an annoyance for melee ATs. Even if he was an awful tank, you using force bubble only it made it that much harder for him to tank in the first place.
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But when you can find someone good. It's actully very useful. Have you not read the post? Or did you just see FF Deffender then flame it?
I Have the most awsome travel powers in the game, and it's all thanks to lag! They are :
- (SSS) Super Slow Speed
- (RBTP) Rubberbanding TP
- Instant Death while Server D/C's
Don't you wish you were me? Well now you can with LAG POWER! -Phoenix
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well...lets not jump to conclusions...|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Nevermind that the OP could very well be omitting numerous jerk comments before he made the one about force bubble as well.
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..
...
....yeah
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I wasn't serious, I just wondered if the thread could derail anymore...|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Nevermind that the OP could very well be omitting numerous jerk comments before he made the one about force bubble as well.
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I liked ya Cold guide but am not word for word okay with Frostwork, the word never translated to only at times would suit me better.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Yes. And everyone knows that the only purpose other archetypes serve is to please melee ATs. |
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
I would have kicked you too. Force bubble is nothing but an annoyance for melee ATs.
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Knockback is tricky to use in the presence of melee characters. You have to be very careful with it.
But a good tanker or scrapper, seeing that someone on the team has KB attacks, will use those attacks to their advantage. Instead of pulling to a corner, where knockback will scatter the mobs, the tanker should pull to a dead-end corridor, or the interior corner of a room, and have the knockback-users help collect the mobs. In this case the knockback-users can be very helpful by knocking the ranged attackers (Juicer Freaks that won't close to melee range, for example) into the tanker's melee range.
The key to being a good team member is to utilize the other team's capabilities to the max. Utilizing synergies from different ATs' powersets is one of the funnest thing I've done in the game.
Nothing is more tedious than being on a team where the bossy tanker says "u all wait here 'til i bring em back AND DON'T ATTACK TILL I SAY!!!" These guys take forever to gather them all up, and often herd more than they can hold aggro on (or even survive).
I run lots of different kinds of tankers and brutes as well as all kinds of other ATs, and I don't really care if someone on the team knocks back a few mobs. I have a fire/ice tanker, which is probably the most sensitive of all tankers to KB attacks (because of the Ice Patch/Burn combo), so I can commiserate with other tankers on the issue of knockback. But if an energy blaster is knocking one Freak back, so what? He'll be dead soon enough and won't be doing anything while he's picking himself up.
Now, if they're still using Gale or Energy Torrent every single time I drop the Burn on some big outdoor map (where you can't find dead-end corridors), I have a legitimate gripe. The OP doesn't seem to have been doing this.
A question to the OP: I don't have a character with Force Bubble, so I don't have direct experience with this. Might an alternative action in this case have been to call all the squishies to you and retreat down the corridor a ways? This way, the tanker is happy and your blasters can take pot shots at all the guys bouncing off your bubble.
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Fixed for you.
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Originally Posted by Ethric
Serves you right for not healing like a REAL H3410R!1!!
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
You're purposely making playing a melee AT not fun anymore by simply using force bubble and you're being a jerk when asked to stop using it. Yes I would have kicked you immediately for such an attitude.
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Okay, still can't tell if you're joking or not.
Would you elaborate WHY using FB would cause someone playing a melee AT to "not have fun"?
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Okay. NOW I know you're joking.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Force bubble doesn't save teams, Dispersion, Repulsion bomb, and ally shields already have that fully covered for an FF defender.
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If they've slaughtered his blasters already, how is your advice helpful? The ST-oriented tank is going to kill them all?|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
By the time you shoved them haphazardly into a corner they would have already been dead because you just blew it out of placed AoEs.
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Survey SAYS?
*BZZT*
*FLIP*
[NO!]
If they're peeling off the group around the tank, likely they're not in position to get whacked by an AOE either.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
There is this little inherent that tankers have called Gauntlet that taunts the target hit and 4 targets around it even if it was only a single target attack.
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Which is really useful in a mob if 15+ enemies.
*Sigh*
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Force bubble needs to be used against walls, and preferably a corner. The repel effect can be obnoxious if used improperly since it may bounce a mob away quite a distance away. If I just ran down into the corridor and triggered it, you'd have a situation where the Freakshow may scatter even worse due to the repel. That wouldn't help things.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
A question to the OP: I don't have a character with Force Bubble, so I don't have direct experience with this. Might an alternative action in this case have been to call all the squishies to you and retreat down the corridor a ways? This way, the tanker is happy and your blasters can take pot shots at all the guys bouncing off your bubble.
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Also, I didn't think I'd be called a liar. I don't have chat logs of the incident, and yes, I am writing from my own perspective, but hopefully people can judge from my posting history (and the few posters that actually know me in game) can vouch for the fact that I don't embellish or exaggerate.
If I was truly trying to cast this in the most favorable light possible, I probably wouldn't have included the fact that I had a snippy reaction to the tank's criticism of the use of force bubble. The tank and I didn't have much conversation before his comment and his negativity towards a power (that I thought was beneficially used) caught me by surprise.
Also, for what it's worth, this is the first time in 3 years I've been kicked from a team. I'm not a rabble rouser and have a high tolerance for different play styles.
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Actually, he said it was the first time he'd dropped FB the entire time.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Understand that you're reading his perspective. It's highly possible that he was the reason the tank couldn't hold aggro in the first place with gauntlet because he was pushing everything out of melee of the tank. Also understand that he is going to try and set himself up as the hero no matter what even if he was the main cause of the team's problems.
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While it's POSSIBLE it's not true I think it unlikely.
If the tank had that much of a problem with FB, he'd have said something about it and kicked our OP earlier.
You.
Are.
WRONG.
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Because the tank couldn't hold all the aggro he was pulling.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
How does that help the team if you're preventing the tank from getting aggro in the first place?
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Where does excess, uncontrolled aggro go in a team mission?
Oh yeah! On to your teammates!
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Turbo Ski, you seem awfully worked up that the OP is lying or concealing the truth in some way, why is that?
Just seems to me that this unfounded belligerence belies your deep and abiding hatred of KB auras and not anthing else.
Unless, of course, you were the tank from the OP's post everything you are assuming is making a giant *** of you
As somebody with both a FF (troller, but also had fender on US server) and a WP tank i think you did the right thing in the situation and i would have done the same if i were the FF defender. When most of the team is dead and the tank has clearly lost aggro (not surprising really, WP with no taunt = asking for trouble) its time for drastic measures.
In the given situation, force bubble would allow the mobs to not only be seperated from the team and the tank to regain aggro once people have had a chance to rez - which is a very useful trick for force bubble, the 'back-up so i can rez' button.
If i were the tank, i would have be thankful for the force bubble, positioned myself outside of it and regained aggro while the rest of the team collected themselves, protected inside. Good players adapt, crap players dont.
Again, using force bubble in this situation is entirely different to running around with it on all the time like a muppet...
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Bah! He bought the mat!
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Originally Posted by Mr_DJ
well...lets not jump to conclusions...
.. ... ....yeah |
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The OP the reminds me of a story that I have when I played with my Invul/Axe.
The story goes is that I get invited to a team to run Nemesis. I hate fighting these guys, but it's a team that wanted me so I decided to join. I'm unsure of the entire team make up, but there happened to be a FF/Energy on the team. This didn't mind me much, however, when we entered the first mission, I noticed that the Defender kept his Force Bub on at ALL times. The Defender annoyed me so much with his damn bubble keeping everything out of melee range.
During the course of the final mission that I decided to leave, I let him die. Seeing him go down just gave me the biggest smile on my face because I was able to have foes in melee range.
If ya'll are wondering, I wasn't herding. I was just hopping from spawn to spawn trying not to snap because of the Force Bub.
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Sounds to me that you only ever play in perfect teams.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
If they had that much knockback+damage coming from blasters then they really didn't need the tank or the force bubble to protect them, unless of course it was the force bubble that was scattering everything about and the OP is simply lying about it (a much more likely case). There was also a controller present, which unless the controller was absolutely brain-dead and doing NOTHING then there really shouldn't be a reason to use Force bubble.
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The tank bit off more than he could chew, and when the mobs that were over his agro cap started wailing on the rest of the team the FF Def pushed the majority away.
I fail to understand why you think that that isn't a valid tactic.
Me I've been in exactly the same situation... without a bubbler and TBH someone shoving the mobs off of me with FB, Repel, Sing', TK or any of the other knock back powers, would have been infinitely preferable to team wiping.
The only person with a bigger ego than the tanker in the OP's story is the OP himself, that's a red flag right off the bat that he is full of it. Also I would have kicked him regardless of his AT and build if he gave anyone in one of my teams that kind of attitude.