I got kicked for using force bubble

Turbo_Ski · 08-03-2009 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptlbrain

Why the extra slotting mentioned, since you despise scatter?

If you reread my previous post, you would know there is rarely ever a need to use it or force bubble because Repulsion Bomb, Ally Bubbles, and Dispersion protect the team more than well enough. When it hits the fan, you're not going to be concerned about keeping spawns clustered as much as mitigating as much damage as possible, which is what repulsion field does far better. The slotting on knockback increases the mag rating meaning it effects foes that have knockback protection, such as most Boss/EB/AVs types.

Quote:

I'm not sure exactly what teams you play on, but teammates run out of the Dispersion bubble (in different directions) all the time.

As long as you're getting most of the team in your bubble most of the time, it really shouldn't matter if a few teammates scatter about. If a teammate runs out of your field and gets themselves killed somehow, it's in no way your fault and nothing you do will save them from their own idiocy.

Quote:

Sometimes spawns are nicely clumped for AoEs. Other times (see, Rikti) they could use a little compacting. Or--on medium teams--two close spawns can be pushed together for more effective AoEing. Teammates scatter mobs all the time. Force Bubble can "correct" these troubles sometimes.

Force bubble does an awful job at positioning foes because it's radius is too large for that purpose, and it's entirely unnecessary to do so since the time it takes you to position them you could have already steamrolled over the mob.

MrGangstar · 08-03-2009 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xemulas

@ MrGangster:

Farm dynamics =/= PuG running into, y'know, something surprising (read: challenging)...one PuG leader with an ego getting riled is a different issue to a Farm leader telling someone he's PLing or using to fill to not get in his way.

But you are right about one similarity, they both presume themselves to be Kings of some sort of castle

Yes thats sorta wut i was getting at. I know not the exact same thing but nearly impossible close

I'm Havok Charge, pay no attention to the "Mr. Gangstar" I was young.

Westley · 08-03-2009 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski

When it hits the fan, you're not going to be concerned about keeping spawns clustered as much as mitigating as much damage as possible, which is what repulsion field does far better.

Repulsion Field's radius is sometimes too small and the team sometimes too spread out to save them all with just that power. Sometimes you NEED Force Bubble.

I'm going to paraphrase Samuel L. Jackson here from the movie Jackie Brown:

Force Bubble: when you absolutely positively have to aggro every mother ****** in the room, accept no substitute.

As I said in the FF Bible, Repulsion Field is like a chisel, Force Bubble is like a sledgehammer. There is a time and place for each when you're sculpting.

Turbo_Ski · 08-03-2009 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight

Repulsion Field's radius is sometimes too small and the team sometimes too spread out to save them all with just that power. Sometimes you NEED Force Bubble.

I'm going to paraphrase Samuel L. Jackson here from the movie Jackie Brown:

Force Bubble: when you absolutely positively have to aggro every mother ****** in the room, accept no substitute.

As I said in the FF Bible, Repulsion Field is like a chisel, Force Bubble is like a sledgehammer. There is a time and place for each when you're sculpting.

I accept your analogy, I just adamantly disagree with frequency of its need in actual play especially when nearly soft-capped defense is involved.

Agonus · 08-03-2009 04:16 PM

I was in a similar situation over the weekend. I actually thought this thread might have been about me.

I was an Inv/EM Tank (created for theme, now finally shelved. I know EM sucks for AoE.) leading a full PuG. There were two other melee characters on the team, and a bubbler. When mobs were in the clear, I would jump in first, Taunt, Whirling Hands, then the other meleers would close in, followed by the ranged. Typing that out makes it seem slower than it was, but it happened pretty quick. We were doing pretty well, I don't build power PuGs, I take who I can get. We might of had one or two people drop (Running level 47 stuff at +4) but thing were going pretty well.

Then I noticed about 1/3 of the way into the mission, something was pushing the mobs -off- of me and into walls. The meleers proceeded to chase down the mobs. I realized it was Force Bubble. I asked the Bubbler to not use the power so much. The Scrappers agreed. The bubble went away.

We moved along, and then the bubble came back. It got to the point where the Bubbler was pushing mobs off of me and into other mobs. About 2/3's of the way through I told him I would not warn him again to stop using the power. After that, the bubble never came back. Granted I left the group after that mission to log, but still.

Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.

good luck D.B.B.

StratoNexus · 08-03-2009 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiftycalsniper

Wait, Gale isn't an attack? Dammit, now I have to pull out my 3 slots of damage enhancers that are in it! Boooooo!

Replace with two KB and one range!

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

The_Alt_oholic · 08-03-2009 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xemulas

Stick an ignore on him, as that will hopefully bring you closer to the goal of never having to team with ignorant tools

I'm for this plan.
Don't forget to set up your options to show stars and one star the guy as well.

Of course, there is always running your own teams.

I've been in the habit of running no tanker/no scrapper team if at all possible. The teams usually do very well once they gel.

You know what you are dealing with when you are running with a Tank without Taunt. For some reason, many Tankers insist that they can keep agro without it, but the rest of us know that this really isn't true.
We also know that even Taunt can't hold a room full of enemies any more.
It's mostly a matter of what I call Tankertude.
The Tank that you were running with was full of it.

StratoNexus · 08-03-2009 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski

As long as you're getting most of the team in your bubble most of the time, it really shouldn't matter if a few teammates scatter about. If a teammate runs out of your field and gets themselves killed somehow, it's in no way your fault and nothing you do will save them from their own idiocy.

Sometimes, even supreme idiocy can be saved. Those are the times I relish most on my bubbler. Not everyone wants to do that and I respect your right to let idiots die without trying to help them.

Sometimes, the idiots put the whole team in danger though, but apparently you feel its wrong to save the team from those idiots if those idiots are armored?

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

The_Alt_oholic · 08-03-2009 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peacemoon

Please tell me how "saving the team" and "pinning all the mobs into a corner" is some how bad for melee players and cripples AoE?

The melee guys can't claim to be doing all the work and glory-hogging credit for doing everything, and it deflates their egos to know a squishy can achieve the kind of mob control that they think they have?

Westley · 08-03-2009 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratoNexus

Sometimes, even supreme idiocy can be saved. Those are the times I relish most on my bubbler. Not everyone wants to do that and I respect your right to let idiots die without trying to help them.

Sometimes, the idiots put the whole team in danger though, but apparently you feel its wrong to save the team from those idiots if those idiots are armored?

Stop trying to use logic in a rant thread, dammit!

Turbo_Ski · 08-03-2009 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratoNexus

Sometimes, even supreme idiocy can be saved. Those are the times I relish most on my bubbler. Not everyone wants to do that and I respect your right to let idiots die without trying to help them.

Sometimes, the idiots put the whole team in danger though, but apparently you feel its wrong to save the team from those idiots if those idiots are armored?

If the fool is armored and aggroing more than he should, those idiots that follow him into his suicidal endeavors are even bigger idiots.

Westley · 08-03-2009 05:02 PM

Are you quoting Ben Kenobi now?

This thread has GONE TO THE JEDIS!!!!!!!!!1111!1!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr. DJ · 08-03-2009 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski

If the fool is armored and aggroing more than he should, those idiots that follow him into his suicidal endeavors are even bigger idiots.

it is easy to get caught up in the initial herd once the rest of the mobs come running in, especially when you aggro only bits of each mob so when the whole team attacks the herd, the rest of the room will come down on you. Not everyone plays w/ the camera zoomed out either to notice the extra adds coming down.

Westley · 08-03-2009 05:09 PM

Mr. DJ, just who IS your avatar? Is she from a Street Fighter game or something?

StratoNexus · 08-03-2009 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski

If the fool is armored and aggroing more than he should, those idiots that follow him into his suicidal endeavors are even bigger idiots.

Your solution to someone on the team making a foolish mistake is to stop playing?

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

Mr. DJ · 08-03-2009 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight

Mr. DJ, just who IS your avatar? Is she from a Street Fighter game or something?

Angel from King of Fighters

Turbo_Ski · 08-03-2009 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratoNexus

Your solution to someone on the team making a foolish mistake is to stop playing?

Hardly, I'm just saying if you see one ***** go off and aggro something by themselves away from the rest of the team, it's in your best interest to let them die.

Miladys_Knight · 08-03-2009 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski

Hardly, I'm just saying if you see one ***** go off and aggro something by themselves away from the rest of the team, it's in your best interest to let them die.

And what do you do when the jerk brings them back to the rest of the team? Blame the team for running with a jerk or do you play DEFENDER and defend your team to the best of your abilities with your full range of powers?

I know what I do. You've made it pretty clear what you do.

-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson

Westley · 08-03-2009 06:23 PM

Well to be fair, MK, Turbo comes to it with the mindset of a Corrupter, always has and probably always will.

Turbo_Ski · 08-03-2009 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight

Well to be fair, MK, Turbo comes to it with the mindset of a Corrupter, always has and probably always will.

not really, I've been playing defenders like that since Issue 3.

Westley · 08-03-2009 06:34 PM

Ah, so you've been playing them as Corrupters even before they existed. Fascinating.

CelestiaCoH · 08-03-2009 06:48 PM

I have a will power tank. It is fun to play, but even with taunt, lots of AoEs, and using gauntlet, WP has a very very very very very hard time holding aggro.

They just aren't as good as being main tank as most other tanks. If he was going over the aggro cap, that just makes WPs trouble holding aggro even worse.

You are better off leaving a team with someone that just doesn't understand the mechanics of tanking, especially if they get aggressive because you are trying to help them out.

Queen of the Amazons, WP/DB
Sound Judgement Son/Son
Cobra Lily Plant/Kin
Celestia, FF/Psy
Nefertiri, Storm/Elec
Pixie, Ill/Rad
Guardian Server

The_Alt_oholic · 08-03-2009 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight

And what do you do when the jerk brings them back to the rest of the team? Blame the team for running with a jerk or do you play DEFENDER and defend your team to the best of your abilities with your full range of powers?

I know what I do. You've made it pretty clear what you do.

May I suggest that you start by reading the OP's post and work your way down and then see where the thread is coming from before your foot is too far into your mouth.

Rigel_Kent · 08-03-2009 07:27 PM

Always give the benefit of the doubt! Someone who runs ahead and gets himself killed might actually be executing a brilliant plan to uberbuff the whole team, since everyone knows I have Vengeance on auto.

Turbo_Ski · 08-03-2009 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent

Always give the benefit of the doubt! Someone who runs ahead and gets himself killed might actually be executing a brilliant plan to uberbuff the whole team, since everyone knows I have Vengeance on auto.

See, one man's loss in another's opportunity.