Threads like this are the reason I run my own teams nowadays...
...and ignore Turbo_Ski.
Your[edit Turbo Ski] last post and the indications for not using Force Bubble were NOT the conditions to which the OP alluded to at first.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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You're not even reading this thread, you just noted the title and came in to vent.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
If it was really the knockback component that saved teams for you, then you would be using Repulsion Field instead not Force Bubble. You're only using Force bubble for the Repel effect which doesn't stop foes from performing attacks like knockback does.
Force bubble also hurts fast paced teams that lay down slick/rain type pets immediately at the start of combat. By the time you shoved them haphazardly into a corner they would have already been dead because you just blew it out of placed AoEs. |
Go back to the first post and read. Stop ***** posting, you're not an *****.
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An FF defender's job is to just keep bubbles up on allies, keep dispersion up, and keep spamming repulsion bomb. If it really hits the fan you pull out repulsion field not force bubble to save a team, and such a scenario is incredibly rare when you're already so close to the defense soft cap. It is not beneficial in the slightest to attempt to herd foes into a corner with a fat radius force bubble, if that is what you want to do then reroll storm and pick up hurricane instead.
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Originally Posted by Aurorous
The tank is the first line of defense the defender/controller is the last line. A defender should be an insurance policy, only used if things go way wrong. If your a good tank a defender can just sit back and blast and have an easy day of it. If your a crappy tank don't tell me how i'm suppose to do my job.
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Slightly off topic, but I was reminded of a Grav troller I was playing with today. He barely did anything for the entire fight and had the habit to open the fight with Dimension shift, regardless of the fact that the team was steamrolling the enemies we were fighting. I politely asked the player not to use the power willy nilly because we were fully capable of fighting the mobs and it was difficult to tell which mobs were shifted and which ones weren't. I also explained that it's causing us to waste endurance and time swinging at foes we can't hit.
Regardless, and without saying a word for the entire mission, he continued to use dimension shift, only this time right as the spawns were right about to go down. I then saw his Nem staff and decided to check his vet status. 42 months. I came to the conclusion that someone was letting their kid play, or the guy was just messing with us.
The team repeatedly warned him to stop using D.Shift but he kept using it. Eventually he got kicked but our /kin was so frustrated she left the team also.
Not really relevant to the thread, but man that was annoying. I love doing a shield charge at the 400% damage cap only to see "Unaffected!" pop up over the heads of everything I was trying to kill.
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Fun fact:|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Rather than push everything off the tank... why not simply create a wall somewhere in between the tank and the blasters. If he was losing that much aggro he would have to chase them anyway, but simply pushing forward with Force Bubble ensures that *all* that he was holding is gone.
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Taunt is the ultimate aggro tool. It doesn't work on some sort of value scale, it's an on or off sort of thing. If an enemy's taunted, then it has no choice but to attack the person who taunted it. No amount of damage or other affects can override it.
Another fun fact: When the tank can't hold aggro, Force Bubble does more than just repel. It also draws at least some attention if not most to you and away from your ailing allies, giving them time to recover. Enemies don't like being pushed around.
Then when the heat is too much on you, PFF to save your own butt and they can take over again.
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There is this little inherent that tankers have called Gauntlet that taunts the target hit and 4 targets around it even if it was only a single target attack.
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Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
No, the tauntless, no AoE, Willpower tanker was not controlling the agro anyway. Try reading the OP before sounding like a n00b spouting out your ***.
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Please answer the real question of why is your +Def stacking and repulsion bomb spamming failing so hard that you would need force bubble in the first place.
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Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
Another fun fact: When the tank can't hold aggro, Force Bubble does more than just repel. It also draws at least some attention if not most to you and away from your ailing allies, giving them time to recover. Enemies don't like being pushed around.
Then when the heat is too much on you, PFF to save your own butt and they can take over again. |
Rularuu.
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Reread what was happening.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
An FF defender's job is to just keep bubbles up on allies, keep dispersion up, and keep spamming repulsion bomb. If it really hits the fan you pull out repulsion field not force bubble to save a team, and such a scenario is incredibly rare when you're already so close to the defense soft cap. It is not beneficial in the slightest to attempt to herd foes into a corner with a fat radius force bubble, if that is what you want to do then reroll storm and pick up hurricane instead.
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Originally Posted by Fury_Flechette
Obviously, it wasn't a good idea since there were so many Freaks and while the tank did manage to get their attention, the Freaks started to scatter and go after the rest of the team once they were in the corridor.
Within a few seconds, a couple of the blasters dropped and the rest of the team was injured. To buy them some time, I threw up force bubble and trapped about 17 or 18 Freaks against the corner of the corridor. Mind you, this was the first time I used force bubble in the entire time we were teamed. |
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Reread what the team was...|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Please answer the real question of why is your +Def stacking and repulsion bomb spamming failing so hard that you would need force bubble in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Fury_Flechette
The team was compromised of a WP/Energy tank (team leader, no taunt, no AoEs), a bunch of squishies (mostly blasters and 1 controller) and me, the lone defender (FF/Sonic).
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Only if it's entirely made up of eyeballs, which are almost entirely ranged based. Again why would you need force bubble against a ranged heavy mob?
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Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
Rularuu.
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To draw aggro from the rest of the team and onto myself. It's not ALL about range, only part.
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Understand that you're reading his perspective. It's highly possible that he was the reason the tank couldn't hold aggro in the first place with gauntlet because he was pushing everything out of melee of the tank. Also understand that he is going to try and set himself up as the hero no matter what even if he was the main cause of the team's problems.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Reread what was happening.
This was not a scattering issue to where it was slowing down the team. The mob was already scattered. Using Force Bubble did give the team time since the FF player was drawing aggro to themselves and keeping the mobs away from the rest of the team. Since the team was protected from melee attacks, it was in fact giving the team added protection. |
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How does that help the team if you're preventing the tank from getting aggro in the first place?
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Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
To draw aggro from the rest of the team and onto myself. It's not ALL about range, only part.
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You're making an assumption just like the responders to the OP did. You're just assuming the opposite. While I'm merely talking about the application of the powers themselves in my adventures.
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From what the poster said the scattering was happening before they used Force bubble. The rest of the team outside of the OP, tank, and controller was largely blasters. It only takes one of them to be En/* to start to scatter things. And no, not every En/* blaster magically knows how to use KB properly. :P
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Understand that you're reading his perspective. It's highly possible that he was the reason the tank couldn't hold aggro in the first place with gauntlet because he was pushing everything out of melee of the tank. Also understand that he is going to try and set himself up as the hero no matter what even if he was the main cause of the team's problems.
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And you know this because?|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
How does that help the team if you're preventing the tank from getting aggro in the first place?
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EDIT: Know this being they were taking aggro away from the tank before using Force Bubble.
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If they had that much knockback+damage coming from blasters then they really didn't need the tank or the force bubble to protect them, unless of course it was the force bubble that was scattering everything about and the OP is simply lying about it (a much more likely case). There was also a controller present, which unless the controller was absolutely brain-dead and doing NOTHING then there really shouldn't be a reason to use Force bubble.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
From what the poster said the scattering was happening before they used Force bubble. The rest of the team outside of the OP, tank, and controller was largely blasters. It only takes one of them to be En/* to start to scatter things. And no, not every En/* blaster magically knows how to use KB properly. :P
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Speaking as a veteran Tanker player, don't feel badly. If he's trying to herd the whole room, he'd better have better aggro management tools. WP is not very strong in that regard, just using his aura, and EM has mainly single target attacks. That means he was planning on holding aggro with just Gauntlet. As a Tanker that has never used Taunt, I know that Gauntlet isn't going to hold whole rooms.
In short, you did the right thing. A real Tanker doesn't care how it happens, he just wants the team to be safe. Your guy is a glory hound. He should be playing a Scrapper.
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You're just going to take my word for it. |
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Understand that you're reading his perspective. It's highly possible that he was the reason the tank couldn't hold aggro in the first place with gauntlet because he was pushing everything out of melee of the tank. Also understand that he is going to try and set himself up as the hero no matter what even if he was the main cause of the team's problems.
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1. The only time I used force bubble was when the Freaks had overrun the tank was defeating squishies. I wasn't running it throughout the mission; that would be needlessly frustrating. My secondary is sonic blast and I don't have repulsion bomb, repulsion field or shockwave, so I don't think the accusation thatt I'm trying to push stuff away from melee is a fair comment. I do have force bolt, but I reserve that as a personal kb power that I use to save my own skin.
2. The controller was a gravity/storm, but she was a pretty passive player. I don't think she had the mass AoE immobilize and she mostly used freezing rain when it was up and used single target holds. Not the best controller I've teamed with but by no means bad...very average. She was the third squishy to be defeated after being slept, kb'ed and then killed by a Freak boss. I don't know why the controller didn't try to cast freezing rain between the team and the Freaks...I suspect it wasn't up.
3. The tank had aggro control problems throughout. We had two fire blasters on the team and I'd see Freaks get pulled right off the tank and directly to the blasters. This occurred before we encountered the cake layer lab room.
Well, like most cases, I agree with Philotic. His Force Fielding adventures are very interesting and something to be considered. 
" I don't let me kids play on the Freedom Server" -Oya
So tank over aggros, can't control aggro, team starts dying, FF defender turns on Force Bubble to save remaining team.
Tank gets upset that repel was used on mobs he wanted for his own regen. Tank tells defender to stop despite team dying cuz tank wasn't holding aggro.
Defender tells tank to get bent. Defender gets kicked.
Turbo Ski defends tank, demonstrating lack of reading skills.
LOL
Please buff Ice Control.
Telling me that my FF using toons (2 defenders, 2 controllers) can't save the team by using force bubble for KB or to pin mobs (which I have done on MoSTFs on more than one occasion) is not only false, it's disingenious.
I suppose you'll next be telling me that my Energy/Energy/Force Blapper (my main) that's slotted FOR KB can't possibly survive the RWZ challenge by using the KB for mitigation (that blapper has 7% defense to all postions and has succeeded in the RWZ challenge in 4 out of 4 attempts).
A tank, who's team roll is to control aggro, deserves to be annoyed by an on the ball, team saving, Forcefielder, using the KB in Force Bubble (or the mitigation in any other tool for that matter), when that tank fails miserably in their primary responsibility.
A defender who doesn't understand this deserves to play Cold/ instead of FF/
Force bubble also hurts fast paced teams that lay down slick/rain type pets immediately at the start of combat. By the time you shoved them haphazardly into a corner they would have already been dead because you just blew it out of placed AoEs.