Has PvP in CoH seriously faceplanted
By
Alphane,
Posted on: 2008-08-19 21:07 in Everything about PvP
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I mostly stay out of pvp threads because you guys have made it clear that you just don't want to know what non-pvpers have to say about it.
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I mostly stay out of PvP threads if they are not in the PvP boards because I really have no interest of listening to the carebears shoot another barrage of "OMG PVP KILLED COX" and how the devs waste time on it.
Quite frankly I think PvP is one of the aspects of the game that the Devs need to look at if they hope to keep this game alive past the launch of DCO and CO. I am not even a hard core fanatic of PvP, however I would like to occasionally take a break from RPing and PvE and dable in it, right now it's really not as engaging and interesting as it should be.
Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito
I think we should have a pvp training night 
I know i would attend to get me more interested in zonal pvp again (at the moment i just pvp in arena with friends).
Screenshot of the day (its my new thing 
)
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I've spent a few evenings in Sirens on my scrapper and I'm really not a big PvP fan (mostly cause I dont get a buzz from winning, and I obviously dont get one from losing so no real feel to it for me). The one thing I found fun though was terrorising stalkers. Standing still to get hit, waiting till I heard the sound of Build Up and then pressing tab+ToF. Then I could heal myself, stack another ToF and start hitting if they were still there. I figured most would leave, or pop a BF, but it turned out most would actually swear at me in broadcast first giving me time to stack some DoT on them. I even killing a couple. It wasn't my big discovery though, my big discovery was how fun Soul Drain was on a Thug MM. I probably wouldn't use my DM scrapper if I was anywhere near serious but it turned out to be not as bad as I thought.
Though I think my funniest PvP moment is when I was collecting Shivans on my defender and a Master Mind kept running away from me. I really had no chance of killing it as I was solo with only neutron blast and irradiate on hand
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
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I mostly stay out of pvp threads because you guys have made it clear that you just don't want to know what non-pvpers have to say about it.
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Allow me to disagree because we had threads in PvP forum where non PvPers participated and was very constructive regarding PvP and how it would be better.
And to be honest some people provoke a response from PvPers by calling pvp useless/something that should be removed/the cause of all nerfs/the reason enhancements were introduced and some are trigger happy enough to say remove it all together while i have never EVER seen a pvper posting remove RP,Alting,Badging and what not.Thats because majority of PvPers believers there is room for everyone and they would like some changes in a part of the game that has been left same for what 8 issues now?At least i speak for myself i never asked any part of the game to be trashed or removed in order for PvP to get a more prominent position.
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I've never suggested pvp be removed for something else, like RP, to get a more prominent position, I just don't think it works, in a way that I would like, and think the game would do better without it and without the dev time spent on it.
This is an opinion, you know, like yours is that you want it kept in. Disagree with it all you want, but don't tell me not to have it or express it.
I never saw the threads in the pvp forum where the non-pvpers suggested things and the pvpers accepted them because I was put off by comments by pvpers which have made it clear that they think any non-pvper is just clueless and doesn't have any right to comment on it.
Oh, and more people are put off pvp by coming into contact with the pvp community than they are reading a post by a non-pvper.
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
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I mostly stay out of pvp threads because you guys have made it clear that you just don't want to know what non-pvpers have to say about it.
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I mostly stay out of PvP threads if they are not in the PvP boards because I really have no interest of listening to the carebears shoot another barrage of "OMG PVP KILLED COX" and how the devs waste time on it.
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There you go, prime example of the type of comment I was talking about.
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
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Oh, and more people are put off pvp by coming into contact with the pvp community than they are reading a post by a non-pvper.
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Is that right?
And where did you come by that gem of factual information then?
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[
This is an opinion, you know, like yours is that you want it kept in. Disagree with it all you want, but don't tell me not to have it or express it.
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There is a difference between an opinion thats been put across constructively and an opinion thats all negative and "d000m!!", of which yours are generally the latter...
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Oh, and more people are put off pvp by coming into contact with the pvp community than they are reading a post by a non-pvper.
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Is that right?
And where did you come by that gem of factual information then?
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Fill in the blank:
He pulled it out of his [Blank]
Now, bare in mind that my post was one in response to one of yours where you told me I was wrong regarding the needed for +Perc bonuses to guard against Stalkers.
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As far as first strike goes.99% of stalkers feel safe.Thats their biggest weakness.They stand and observe the preys waiting for opportunity.And this is perfect opportunity to catch them.What you need to do is jump high and start moving around.There is a distance within which there is a stealth check.You can see the stalker for a few split seconds and then he vanishes.Playing in and out with movement with this stealth check allows you to keep track of the stalker.Its hard,its not easy takes a lot of practise.Once you nail it tho you can start using auras and PBAoE's to unhide them.I have lost count by now the amount of stalkers i have one shotted with inferno while they are hidden.
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The chances of you managing to find a Stalker using the technique you describe without +Perc is astronomically small. Hide has an enormous +Stealth bonus which makes the Stalker invisible when standing right beside you. You must have +Perc for your technique to work.
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As far a builds go biggest thing that someone can do to increase his chances against stalkers and without spending a dime is get all the +hp accolades. The more hp the less easy you die and the more time u get to react.If you manage to bring your hp high enough to not die from the first 2 hits its basically easy from then on.
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I have all of them, thanks, on my main anyway. He hasn't been killed by a Stalker in quite a while, even if he stands still.
(Post took a while due to lengthy phone call in the middle. 
)
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I don't know if it's been suggested, but how about monster-play as an option? So you can't level the character you control at all, but you do get to fight against the players?
Perhaps offer progress for monster players by giving them tougher monsters/more notorious AVs to control after an amount of time or even a number of players defeated or whatnot?
In order to give players incentive to begin this passage, perhaps offer costume piece rewards or badges (for all their regular characters) for getting up to the top AVs?
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
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I mostly stay out of pvp threads because you guys have made it clear that you just don't want to know what non-pvpers have to say about it.
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I mostly stay out of PvP threads if they are not in the PvP boards because I really have no interest of listening to the carebears shoot another barrage of "OMG PVP KILLED COX" and how the devs waste time on it.
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I've never suggested pvp be removed for something else, like RP, to get a more prominent position, I just don't think it works, in a way that I would like, and think the game would do better without it and without the dev time spent on it.
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There we are peeps, compare and contrast all you want, all I can say is Voxs version is polite for a change.
Oh, for an example of Voxs normal replies please see this response on this particular thread.
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Oh, and more people are put off pvp by coming into contact with the pvp community than they are reading a post by a non-pvper.
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Is that right?
And where did you come by that gem of factual information then?
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Fill in the blank:
He pulled it out of his [Blank]
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[Blank] = Ring Donut? 
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I really have no interest of listening to the carebears
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I'd like to propose a new law, similar to that one about Nazis and thread length. It shall be known as the Happy Bear Law:
As the length of any thread discussing PvP increases, the probability that none PvPers will be likened to Carebears tends to equal 1.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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I don't know if it's been suggested, but how about monster-play as an option? So you can't level the character you control at all, but you do get to fight against the players?
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Unless it's picked up in LotRO, this hasn't worked there so I don't see why it would work in CoX.
You would need to start as a Boss or Lieutenant, I think. Otherwise you really are, literally, just fodder. I also doubt that people would want to play a Skull, where as playing an Uruk has a lot more appeal.
Mind you, maybe if you could have players running entire squads of mobs...
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Disagree with it all you want, but don't tell me not to have it or express it.
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I am reading my post again and again but i dont see me posting anywhere anything like this.Dont pop a vessel really.
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I never saw the threads in the pvp forum where the non-pvpers suggested things and the pvpers accepted them because I was put off by comments by pvpers which have made it clear that they think any non-pvper is just clueless and doesn't have any right to comment on it.
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Thats weird really cause they were pretty long threads and it seems you are well prejudiced.
You have no problem going through rubbish pile of [censored] in general discussion and other parts of forum that include one liners,smilies,derails and what not but have a problem reading a couple negative posters in danger of having a stroke.
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Oh, and more people are put off pvp by coming into contact with the pvp community than they are reading a post by a non-pvper.
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Tbh you obviously got no clue about the PvP community.Majority of it is pretty nice guys that have contributed definitely a lot around here through events and other community activites so some people are pretty lucky coming in contact with them.
And on another note if anyone wants some casual PvP teaming i got a variety of toons on heroes and vills with which i can team with you in PvP zones just send me a tell @Tainted Greek
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There you go, prime example of the type of comment I was talking about.
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Because I'm a hard core PvPer and I will crush you with my leetness.. 
Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito
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The chances of you managing to find a Stalker using the technique you describe without +Perc is astronomically small. Hide has an enormous +Stealth bonus which makes the Stalker invisible when standing right beside you. You must have +Perc for your technique to work.
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You dont need perception at all =] I perform this solo just like many other people and is easy to do it.Just need rely on stalker feeling secure and safe.You can come if you want in RV and show u how i do it.All you need is an AoE power and some practise. I am @Tainted Greek send me a tell if you are in game and i ll show you how i do it.
well tbh u either pvp or u dont.
im not going to say much but its intertesting to read some of these posts tbh.
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PvP can be fun, I've dipped in from time to time. But the fun is always, always spoiled by the appearance of one or more Stalkers. Ignoring for a second they can rip most non-Tanks in half by flicking a fingernail at them, placate followed by stealth and superspeed means it's virtually impossible to track and take them down unless you're constantly eating yellows on top of an impressive +Perc toggle.
Stalkers make PvP frustrating and pointless for non-Stalker Heroes, either solo or as part of a team. And that is mainly why I do not PvP.
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What the Devs were smoking when they thought of Stalkers, nobody will ever know...
Contact Information!
Twitter: @TonyParkeze
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Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
On a technical note, you can't really remove RP from the game. Well... unless you disabled the chat system or had GM's ban anyone roleplaying. RP happens in spite of the game, not because of it.
And I for one aren't asking for PVP to be removed from the game. Seeing as it in its current incarnation it's not something for me on more than a just with friends basis, and I lack the knowledge and skills to play more actively, I'll refrain from further comment on the issue.
And instead vent my hate for the term 'carebear'. :P
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The chances of you managing to find a Stalker using the technique you describe without +Perc is astronomically small. Hide has an enormous +Stealth bonus which makes the Stalker invisible when standing right beside you. You must have +Perc for your technique to work.
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You dont need perception at all =] I perform this solo just like many other people and is easy to do it.Just need rely on stalker feeling secure and safe.You can come if you want in RV and show u how i do it.All you need is an AoE power and some practise. I am @Tainted Greek send me a tell if you are in game and i ll show you how i do it.
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So, it's a bug? Hide should stop you seeing them at all, but it doesn't work properly, so you get to see them for a brief second as you jump in and out of range. That about right? I mean, IIRC, Hide's stealth radius is massively over your perception radius. They should be impossible to spot without +Perc.
Then I need to slot up my one and only PBAoE with a load of +ACC so I can guarantee hitting him (what with Hide's 40% AoE Defense, last I looked), and probably a load of -Recharge so I can do it often. So, I've turned a useful PvE AoE into a useless one just to catch Stalkers.
Oh, and carrying BFs seems a good move since that cuts Placate (and that was a nice tip someone else gave, btw, I didn't know that).
So, you have a difficult to learn technique which basically relies on a fault in the stealth mechanisms. You have an example of a power having to be made useless for PvE to make it function in PvP. Oh, and if you get your technique wrong and the Stalker sees you coming, you're going to get a sword (or whatever) stuffed up your pants when you go past.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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As the length of any thread discussing PvP increases, the probability that none PvPers will be likened to Carebears tends to equal 1.
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I call em as I see em, a Carebear is a carebear, for example Leif isn't a carebear in my book because he actually bothers to think things through in a manner that doesn't ignore the feelings of his fellow players, he'll state his opinion and he'll try to look at things from other peoples perspective as well.
Ergo, not carebear. It's the I don't PvP so why should there be PvP idiots that bug me. Same can be said to those who have similar feelings about RPers.
PS: To further make a point, I don't understand how Z or RW can be called carebears either, a rough definition of carebear taken from the Wikipedia which is as good a source of info as any on this kind of matter.
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The term carebear is used disparagingly for an MMORPG player who never fights other players, only computer controlled enemies (Player versus environment).
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Emphasis mine, and quite frankly carebears who are understanding about -other- peoples need for PvP I don't mind, and I would not use such a negative term for them.
Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito
Quick reply because I'm not sifting through the personal attacks to find something worth replying to with quotes.
How could anyone claim that more people are put off by secondhand posts than trying it out and coming into contact with other pvpers? Do you really think non-pvpers are that sheep-like?
I've read pvpers posts and been put right off ever interacting with the community on the whole. This thread isn't making me want to change my mind either.
From the posts I've read you guys always seem to go "You´re doing it wrong." Whenever anyone posts a criticism of pvp. It's all well and good saying that you have happy threads in the pvp section but I was put off before even looking at that forum because of the posts I read in here.
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
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So, it's a bug? Hide should stop you seeing them at all, but it doesn't work properly, so you get to see them for a brief second as you jump in and out of range. That about right? I mean, IIRC, Hide's stealth radius is massively over your perception radius. They should be impossible to spot without +Perc.
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Its not a bug.Is the way stealth works.
And well sorry if it not works for you cause you have just one PBAoE but it works for a lot of sets and archetypes.Tbh since you are talking about a scrapper nothing stops you to get caltrops and just drop them on the spot the stalker is sitting.
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So, you have a difficult to learn technique which basically relies on a fault in the stealth mechanisms. You have an example of a power having to be made useless for PvE to make it function in PvP. Oh, and if you get your technique wrong and the Stalker sees you coming, you're going to get a sword (or whatever) stuffed up your pants when you go past.
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Its a technique that works.For some sets better than others and in my case i one shot/two shot stalkers hiding.So that kinda sums it up that its doable to surprise stalkers= and get first hit on them.Just takes practise and getting used to it.
What I find funny about PvP is the immature reaction to immature players.