Has PvP in CoH seriously faceplanted
By
Alphane,
Posted on: 2008-08-19 21:07 in Everything about PvP
Am I the only one who thought Carebears were chillingly evil?
I mean they find people who don't live like they want them to, mean people, grouches and so on.
And then with a rainbow cheery named psionic power, lobotomize the person and make them 'happy and nice'
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Werebears were more fun.
You know, this thread has pretty much proved the point over and over.
Couple of people have explained why they like to PvP, and a couple of people have explained why they don't. Both sides are now arguing trying to prove the other side wrong. But the thing is, they can't because it all comes down to an opinion of preference. Some like it, some don't. It's simple.
Personally i'm put off by PvP by the people who do PvP (i'm commenting on this since it had come up in the thread a few times), i'm seeing a fair bit of demeaning posts here (from both sides yes), but the ones from those who PvP stand out more. Comments like "just move forward!" and so on are just dumb imo. Why not just go "Cool, you don't like pvp, i can understand that".
Thats the main reason i'm thrown off by PvP. You can't honestly deny it's not there, and sure i know not everyone does it. But it's there enough to make PvP very unappealing to me. (See that "To me" part? yea, i'm speaking for myself alome here so don't even try read anything into that).
Hi,
Just a note for the self proclamed "hardcore pvper" : you are not hardcore, CoX PvP is a perfect exemple of "carbearness". There is no penalty for dying in this game, no loss, no influence loss, no body loot, nothing.
If "you" are that hardcore and like PvP, try out Shadowbane, Lineage2 or some FPS games or join the Army.
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If "you" are that hardcore and like PvP, try out Shadowbane, Lineage2 or some FPS games or join the Army.
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The Army is hardcore? Hah. When was the last time the Army went to war with someone who could give them a challenge? The Army is just base-camping, spawn-killing, ganking noob-hunters.
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If "you" are that hardcore and like PvP, try out Shadowbane, Lineage2 or some FPS games or join the Army.
[/ QUOTE ]Because FPS games are well known for their severe death penalties, yes?
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The solution would be getting enough people constantly into the PvP zones that there'd always be inexperienced players on both sides, allowing them to still be able to beat at least some targets.
How to accomplish that? I don't really see any way other than cross-server PvP zones. (and that would most likely mean cross-atlantic as well)
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This.
Part of the reason FPS' like BF2142 are so much fun is largely for this reason. You'll be on a map with 100 players, 49 of whom are also on your side. There's always going to be people who are better than you, and probably a fair few people of the same or lower ability than you. This doesn't make the learning curve any less steep, but at least the progress is a little more palatable.
There have been two times I've been in a PVP zone and enjoyed it. One of those was the RV event on the test server. Lots of people, varying abilities, which meant that it wasn't just a death / hospital / rez fest.
At the moment if I go into a PVP zone, I'll spend 10 minutes just trying to FIND another player (given than most of them are moving around trying to avoid stalkers, right?), and then all that happens is a few brief exhanges and I'm deed.
I'm not interested in PVP enough to want to organise 1 v 1s in arena and such like to get better at it, so I generally just don't bother. PVE, alting, having a laugh with my SG mates and the very occasional bit of causal RP is more than enough to tick my boxes and keep me occupied.
Interestingly, my SG does have a couple of quite hardcore PVP players regularly organise SG PVP events aimed at everyone taking part. Usually in these events I regularly get my backside handed to me on a plate, as you would expect. I don't bemoan that fact, or expect anything else but I think if you're not committed to playing PVP, or at least not committed to getting better at it, the difference in skill levels between the people that DO pvp and the people that don't is too large (given the relatively small population) for the people that don't to get in to it.
To put it another way. If you want to PVP in Co* I think you have to start from the premise of "I am going to play PVP". If you start from "I'm not sure about PVP, but I'll give it a go", I think you're far more likely to be put off by it, and I think that's why it's unpopular as it is.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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If "you" are that hardcore and like PvP, try out Shadowbane, Lineage2 or some FPS games or join the Army.
[/ QUOTE ]Because FPS games are well known for their severe death penalties, yes?
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Nope but they require players skills, "real" one.
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If "you" are that hardcore and like PvP, try out Shadowbane, Lineage2 or some FPS games or join the Army.
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The Army is hardcore? Hah. When was the last time the Army went to war with someone who could give them a challenge? The Army is just base-camping, spawn-killing, ganking noob-hunters.
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Hi,
In the Army when you die you don't respawn at the nearest camp.
Btw, 10 French soldiers just die in Afghanistan.
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So back in PVE world there is never a cross word spoken. Teams work like clockwork with the maximum in politeness and decorum.
Defender: " After you dear sir!"
Tanker "My pleasure, dear fellow! Here I Go!"
Energy Blaster "What ho this is spiffing fun what?"
Tanker "Sorry old chap, could you be nice enough to lessen the amount of knock back on these blighters?"
Energy Blaster "Oh how awfull of me! Please allow me to apologize!"
Etc..etc......
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I don't believe I ever said life in PvE was perfect. But my mother always says "If one man calls you an a s s, take no notice. If three men call you an a s s, buy a saddle."
If I was asked to do a survey about PvP, then PvPers would be my top reason for not doing it.
Plus, my example was specifically using RPers, which I am aware is another 'marginal' activity within the game.
I've said it before and I'll repeat it - I, personally, don't PvP because of the PvP players I've encountered. If the PvP community want to get me involved (and my wife... and a large swathe of my SG friends... and in fact most people I've ever spoken to about the subject), then some of them need an attitude adjustment to make PvP accessible to the 'casual PvPer'. TG has actually shown me that he - and from this thread he alone - is prepared to say "I'll show you what it's like." Statistically speaking, that's a poor ratio. But even one person saying it surprises me, based on my experiences of PvPers in this game so far.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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Am I the only one who thought Carebears were chillingly evil?
I mean they find people who don't live like they want them to, mean people, grouches and so on.
And then with a rainbow cheery named psionic power, lobotomize the person and make them 'happy and nice'
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I always thought they where evil as well, it's why I like using the term carebear in a negative fashion.
To people who can't stand the way PvPers talk, ignore broadcast, I rarely even spare a glance at it while in PvP zones. To people who can't stand how PvPers talk on the boards, well tough luck, generally I've never found more stupid comments from one group (PvPers) then from another (non PvPers) and if someone gets out of hand the heavy hand of the Mods squash it.
I am noticing a trend in people who don't like to PvP however, they hate advice.
Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito
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If "you" are that hardcore and like PvP, try out Shadowbane, Lineage2 or some FPS games or join the Army.
[/ QUOTE ]Because FPS games are well known for their severe death penalties, yes?
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Nope but they require players skills, "real" one.
[/ QUOTE ]So CoH PvP is carebear because it lacks death penalties, but FPS PvP somehow isn't? Your argument really isn't consistent.
Oh, and at least 10 people died arond the world during the time it took me to write this post.
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If "you" are that hardcore and like PvP, try out Shadowbane, Lineage2 or some FPS games or join the Army.
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The Army is hardcore? Hah. When was the last time the Army went to war with someone who could give them a challenge? The Army is just base-camping, spawn-killing, ganking noob-hunters.
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Nice Leif, real nice. 1 2 3
4k coalition forces (who have a significant advantage in both equipment and manpower) dead vs 25-30k(?) iraqi combatants? Hardly a fair fight.
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Nice Leif, real nice. 1 2 3
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It's a joke, nice one too.
Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito
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Nice Leif, real nice.
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*shrugs* I'm not the one who brought the Army into a discussion about PvP in computer games.
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Nope but they require players skills, "real" one.
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So CoH PvP is carebear because it lacks death penalties, but FPS PvP somehow isn't? Your argument really isn't consistent.
Oh, and at least 10 people died arond the world during the time it took me to write this post.
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PvP was firmly designed with teaming involved. It was never meant to be solo.
That's primarily because they didnt think PvP through in the first place, even though they announced it prior to launch.
And the game simply hasnt got the metrics to encourage wholesale team PvP. Plus, it falls apart a bit because some ATs, Tankers in particular,fall flat on their faces. If I ever do fight against a team and I taunt 2 or 3 of the villians, I go down fast.
Plus you have the fact that IO and sets aside, there is a distinct difference between a PvP and a PvE build.
If I go to RV, I know I'll see some die hard villians there who have Pvp primed the toons and that, I go in with a massive disadvantage.
Plus certain powers are anti thematic yet available and maybe shouldn't be in PvP. (aid self is a classic example of this. After all, in solo melee, against an aid self player, you really could be there all day.)
This sort of thing puts me off going in the first place. So, enabling players to create a PvP build that can activate in the correct zone and/ or disabling one or two powers that arguably dont match the PvP spirit (or maybe creating one or two powers for the occasion,only for pvP use) may spice things up a bit.
And giving PvP some genuine, understandable and achievable goals wouldn't hurt either.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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Hi,
Just a note for the self proclamed "hardcore pvper" : you are not hardcore, CoX PvP is a perfect exemple of "carbearness". There is no penalty for dying in this game, no loss, no influence loss, no body loot, nothing.
If "you" are that hardcore and like PvP, try out Shadowbane, Lineage2 or some FPS games or join the Army.
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No, Hardcore PvPers are such because they do it a lot, death penalties are irrelevances and possibly would make even more people not want to do it, as it makes the whole idea (playing against other human players) pointless as you level up a character only to have it crippled.
And comparing the army to any computer game is tasteless and arrogant.
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If "you" are that hardcore and like PvP, try out Shadowbane, Lineage2 or some FPS games or join the Army.
[/ QUOTE ]Because FPS games are well known for their severe death penalties, yes?
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Nope but they require players skills, "real" one.
[/ QUOTE ]So CoH PvP is carebear because it lacks death penalties, but FPS PvP somehow isn't? Your argument really isn't consistent.
Oh, and at least 10 people died arond the world during the time it took me to write this post.
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Ok, let's exclude FPS games from my argument because you seem to only focus on this particular example and avoid the others such as Lineage2, Shadowbane, I will also add Asheron's Call Darktide server.
PS : I find your last sentence tactless.
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Ok, let's exclude FPS games from my argument because you seem to only focus on this particular example and avoid the others such as Lineage2, Shadowbane, I will also add Asheron's Call Darktide server.
[/ QUOTE ]Oh, I had no problem with those, seeing as your definition of hardcore is based around death penalties.
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PS : I find your last sentence tactless.
[/ QUOTE ]Thank you
Max, Leif, you know how thorough (read "pedantic") I am about the things we discuss on these forums? I regard some things as too devastating to those involved to drag into the nit-picking "who said what" and "just what did this mean" exchanges things tend to end up as, so at this point I'll drop out of the thread.
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Hi,
Just a note for the self proclamed "hardcore pvper" : you are not hardcore, CoX PvP is a perfect exemple of "carbearness". There is no penalty for dying in this game, no loss, no influence loss, no body loot, nothing.
If "you" are that hardcore and like PvP, try out Shadowbane, Lineage2 or some FPS games or join the Army.
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No, Hardcore PvPers are such because they do it a lot, death penalties are irrelevances and possibly would make even more people not want to do it, as it makes the whole idea (playing against other human players) pointless as you level up a character only to have it crippled.
And comparing the army to any computer game is tasteless and arrogant.
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Hi,
I didn't compared the game to the army but the attitude of some PvPers thinking they are tought and hardcore in the game.
Anyway, I see that we don't "understand" the word "hardcore" the same way. For me doing something a lot isn't enough to label it as hardcore activity.
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PS : I find your last sentence tactless.
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I find you bringing in the real life army into a discussion about PvP on a computer -game- tactless.
Shadowplay - Scrapper DM/DA SL 50
Doctor Storm- Brute SS/Elec SL 50
"speed boosts someone in the face" - Cognito
That also explains when you see shapeshifted PB's, you get the animation change that switches them into their form. Client loads the player data first, then toggles and such, then initiates the change.
To clarify earlier, I just dislike the term Carebear, and did not mean to imply that anyone was refering to me as such.
Cause I tell you, my Carebear Stare is purple slotted for Damage, Accuracy and Fear. People who don't like PvP and don't want to do it, that's fine (I'm someone who likes some PVP and does it sometimes.)
People who don't like PVP and don't want it at all and anyone who does is silly and a violent thug and it should be banned and removed from the game?
I'd call that a whiner.
Though now I have an urge to reactivate my WoW account and do a bit of Arathi Basin... damn you!
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