City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Has PvP in CoH seriously faceplanted

Alphane

By Alphane,
Posted on: 2008-08-19 21:07 in Everything about PvP

 

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I'm bloody well done with PvP.

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No true barbarian would ever say that

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I might go into Recluses Victory to brutalise GG if I'm sure I can catch her in there.

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Still makes you a barbarian wannabe

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

It's hard to take being insulted by an American valley girl all that seriously.

Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.

Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."

 

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Wrong side of the country

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Stop doing it then. Or move.

Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.

Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."

 

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Then maybe she is... joking?

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*hits Rapthorn with a brick*
Now that's funny!

Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.

Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."

 

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Then maybe she is... joking?

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*hits Rapthorn with a brick*
Now that's funny!

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OW! *plucks the brick from the orifice made in his forehead*

If I'm so funny, what's with the brick-throwing issues? Or is that how you warriors great each other in your simple and barbaric language?

Contact Information!

Twitter: @TonyParkeze

Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91

Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com

 

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Id say 100%. Most of whom would leave the zone. Many of whom who would be disgusted.

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Most of whom would leave the game .

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Edited for truth.


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There are reasons why most CoX players play CoX and not an open-world PvP game, and the fact that the above doesn't happen is one of them.

As TG pointed out pages and pages ago, PvP in CoX isn't compatible with the way many of us play the game and want to build our characters. Bringing PvP into PvE zones would be CoX's NGE and it'd alienate everyone who plays it exactly because PvE and PvP are completely separate activities.

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This PvE player would be leaving the game double quick.

I have no problem with PvP but it's not really my scene. I will PvP in FNFC but I don't want open warfare thank you very much.

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Me forth. This seems to be something some people have trouble accepting, but a lot of PvEers don't PvP because they don't realise how fun it is, or the rewards aren't sufficient. A lot of us just don't want to PvP.

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Dont fool yourself in the past the amount of people considering PvP an abomination due to their previous experiences is pretty big. Despite the fact that CoH is far friendlier in terms of PKing,ganking,low level ganking and so on.

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/seconded.... A lot!

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Hands up all those who stopped reading after:

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just imagine a team of level 50 villains turning up at atlas

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before they hit the reply button?

I think you've missed my point entirely and by majority rule i wasn't clear enough about what my point was but hey, you lot have made it pretty clear i'd be wasting my time anyway

It has confirmed my speculations however, about the game itself having nothing to do with why PvP is so unpopular, at least among the forum population.

 

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Id say 100%. Most of whom would leave the zone. Many of whom who would be disgusted.

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Most of whom would leave the game .

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Edited for truth.


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There are reasons why most CoX players play CoX and not an open-world PvP game, and the fact that the above doesn't happen is one of them.

As TG pointed out pages and pages ago, PvP in CoX isn't compatible with the way many of us play the game and want to build our characters. Bringing PvP into PvE zones would be CoX's NGE and it'd alienate everyone who plays it exactly because PvE and PvP are completely separate activities.

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This PvE player would be leaving the game double quick.

I have no problem with PvP but it's not really my scene. I will PvP in FNFC but I don't want open warfare thank you very much.

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Me forth. This seems to be something some people have trouble accepting, but a lot of PvEers don't PvP because they don't realise how fun it is, or the rewards aren't sufficient. A lot of us just don't want to PvP.

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Dont fool yourself in the past the amount of people considering PvP an abomination due to their previous experiences is pretty big. Despite the fact that CoH is far friendlier in terms of PKing,ganking,low level ganking and so on.

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/seconded.... A lot!

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Hands up all those who stopped reading after:

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just imagine a team of level 50 villains turning up at atlas

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before they hit the reply button?

I think you've missed my point entirely and by majority rule i wasn't clear enough about what my point was but hey, you lot have made it pretty clear i'd be wasting my time anyway

It has confirmed my speculations however, about the game itself having nothing to do with why PvP is so unpopular, at least among the forum population.

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Um, I read everything you typed and I still think the majority of people would hate it. I mean, you said nothing about those level 50s being unable to attack all the lowbies in the area, so you've got a bunch of players, lots of them probably brand new to the game being destroyed by a bunch of level 50 villains until a bunch of level 50 heroes show up to fight them off?

So suddenly, instead of being the hero, those lowbies are now the civilians who needs rescuing?

Lame.

[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]

 

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[Um, I read everything you typed and I still think the majority of people would hate it. I mean, you said nothing about those level 50s being unable to attack all the lowbies in the area, so you've got a bunch of players, lots of them probably brand new to the game being destroyed by a bunch of level 50 villains until a bunch of level 50 heroes show up to fight them off?

So suddenly, instead of being the hero, those lowbies are now the civilians who needs rescuing?

Lame.

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Hasn't there been a suggestion like this before, with the exact same problem?

Contact Information!

Twitter: @TonyParkeze

Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91

Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com

 

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Um, I read everything you typed and I still think the majority of people would hate it. I mean, you said nothing about those level 50s being unable to attack all the lowbies in the area, so you've got a bunch of players, lots of them probably brand new to the game being destroyed by a bunch of level 50 villains until a bunch of level 50 heroes show up to fight them off?

So suddenly, instead of being the hero, those lowbies are now the civilians who needs rescuing?

Lame.

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Micron said:

One thing i'd really like to see (not just for the PvP), which has been mentioned by the dev team, is the ability for both Heroes and Villains to freely roam across all zones of both factions, obviously the PvP flag for each player shouldn't be automatically 'on' apart from players in oposition teritory or free fire zones (the current PvP zones for example) but players in a home faction zone can 'toggle on' thir PvP flag by attacking an enemy player or by entering a free fire zone, with their PvP flag toggling back off an hour after their last attack on an enemy player or leaving a free fire or oposite faction zone. The only exceptions to this should be aoe powers (damage auras, pbaoe's and targetted aoe's) are ignored for PvP flag toggling and don't cause damage to any players when the caster's PvP flag is off so a player would have to make a targetted and intended attack to toggle their PvP flag on.


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Not thought about reading a little higher up the thread before replying?

Lame.

 

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Don't throw your toys out just because people don't like your idea. Speaking personally, I don't want PVP in a PVE zone under any circumstances; be it with PVP flags or through any other overly complicated device you care to mention. If PVP was something that a large enough portion of the player base wanted, a lot more people would go into the zones that have been designated for it.

They don't, so it isn't.

@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat

 

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Micron said:

One thing i'd really like to see (not just for the PvP), which has been mentioned by the dev team, is the ability for both Heroes and Villains to freely roam across all zones of both factions, obviously the PvP flag for each player shouldn't be automatically 'on' apart from players in oposition teritory or free fire zones (the current PvP zones for example) but players in a home faction zone can 'toggle on' thir PvP flag by attacking an enemy player or by entering a free fire zone, with their PvP flag toggling back off an hour after their last attack on an enemy player or leaving a free fire or oposite faction zone. The only exceptions to this should be aoe powers (damage auras, pbaoe's and targetted aoe's) are ignored for PvP flag toggling and don't cause damage to any players when the caster's PvP flag is off so a player would have to make a targetted and intended attack to toggle their PvP flag on.


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Not thought about reading a little higher up the thread before replying?

Lame.

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I read that too and I still think there'd be problems. What would these level 50s be doing in lowbie zones until they get attacked? Killstealing, streetsweeping and generally getting in the way of people who want to play CoX their own way. The only way something like this could work is if all the PvE zones were level locked, meaning that heroes and villains would only be able to enter enemy zones of their own level. Even then there would be problems in the higher zones as regular PvPers with PvP builds are basically untouchable by PvE players with PvE builds, meaning that PvPers' issues with "carebear" players would become more pronounced as they won't be able to do their bit for their side.

As for not reading everything you wrote, take a look at this that I posted way back at the start of this thread:
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I used to be pretty good at CS, I'm still decent at CoD1/Allied Assault/CoD2 where they're still played, I got a pretty good rep in one of the respected WW2OL squads and I loved the RvR in DAOC back in the day and the idea of superpowered battles between heroes and villains is a really attractive idea.

Thing is in CoX it's very easy to min/max extremely uber PvP builds and I, like many other CoX players, CBA with min/maxing just to win. For me making characters in CoX is all about making characters that I'd like to read about in comics, with comic book style builds and powers, but they don't stand a chance against the munchkinised FTW builds that dominate PvP here. CoX PvP just doesn't cater for my kind of player.

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I might be wasting my time by trying to get my point understood instead of letting myself get squeezed into the rabid, headbanging anti-PvP stereotype, but in the end I'm still not in CoX for PvP. It's too imbalanced and requires me to play in ways that I don't play CoX for, and as soon as PvP starts to interfere with my game, and as soon as there's any pressure on me to go through all the tedious nonsense you have to go through to get a competitive PvP build, I'll be off.

There are much better games for PvP and when I get the itch I go to those to scratch it.

 

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Hands up all those who stopped reading after:

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just imagine a team of level 50 villains turning up at atlas

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before they hit the reply button?

I think you've missed my point entirely and by majority rule i wasn't clear enough about what my point was but hey, you lot have made it pretty clear i'd be wasting my time anyway

It has confirmed my speculations however, about the game itself having nothing to do with why PvP is so unpopular, at least among the forum population.

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You're making the same mistake again; we're not disagreeing with you because we[1] didn't read your post properly or don't understand it. We're disagreeing because we don't want anything like that implemented.


[1] Rhetorical (or maybe royal) "we" here.

 

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[1] Rhetorical (or maybe royal) "we" here.

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We is correct.

I really should do something about this signature.

 

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c) Buff bar: Its where PvP starts to get complicated.Attacks appear before they actually land.

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Does connection speed or anything affect this? Tried the same thing to see when my MM is about to get TP'd (try working around that one stalker haters! ) and haven't been able to spot a window of time where I can react yet. Admittedly I haven't had a lot of time to test this

My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464

 

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c) Buff bar: Its where PvP starts to get complicated.Attacks appear before they actually land.

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Does connection speed or anything affect this? Tried the same thing to see when my MM is about to get TP'd (try working around that one stalker haters! ) and haven't been able to spot a window of time where I can react yet. Admittedly I haven't had a lot of time to test this

[/ QUOTE ]It depends on the power. Oh, and it works just the same in PvE than PvP.

 

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While PvP in any zone would be fine in a comic book context - Villains can strike anywhere, after all - it might not be so good in an MMO context - so this is one of those things that the devs have to balance.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Don't throw your toys out just because people don't like your idea.

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Lol, my toys never moved

I did read what you wrote, I was responding to (and quoted) the parts i didn't agree with. (I highlited parts of some quotes to make it more clear which bits I was responding to).

I agree that PvP isn't for everyone (whatever their reasons), I agree that my ideas aren't for everyone and I agree that something like that would need alot of tweeking and balancing (and even then someone would find a way to grief others just as much as they do now).

What I don't agree with are the cries of 'Every one would leave the game!' when I know for a fact that's not true, although alot or even (though i doubt it) the majority may consider leaving the game (or actually leave it, which ever makes you happier), which is why i don't think something like this will be considered for a very long time, if ever.

My responce to Vox was intended for him alone, though it looks like others have taken it as a personal attack on them, it wasn't.

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I read that too and I still think there'd be problems. What would these level 50s be doing in lowbie zones until they get attacked? Killstealing, streetsweeping and generally getting in the way of people who want to play CoX their own way. The only way something like this could work is if all the PvE zones were level locked, meaning that heroes and villains would only be able to enter enemy zones of their own level. Even then there would be problems in the higher zones as regular PvPers with PvP builds are basically untouchable by PvE players with PvE builds, meaning that PvPers' issues with "carebear" players would become more pronounced as they won't be able to do their bit for their side.

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As far as I can see, there would be no difference between a villain player and a hero player with regards to kill stealing etc. the game already has very good methods of dealing with griefers (ie. virtually every mission is an instance).

From what I understand (and has been forcefully thrown at me) the majority of those 'carebear' players don't want anything to do with PvP, the flag system allows them to carry on and ignore any enamy players safe in the knowlage that those enamy players can't attack them, the ability to 'do their bit' isn't an issue when the player doesn't want to and those that were interested would have a more PvP viable toon available to swap to if they so desired, most players seem to have numerous 50's, respecing one for PvP (or leveling a fresh one up) wouldn't be much of an issue if they wanted it.

Perhaps I shouldn't have included the quote from you Standoff, read on it's own you're just saying that you personally don't agree with it but the 'me fourth' part screamed out 'I agree with the previous three people that: everyone would leave'

I'm going to ignore the troll to avoid anymore moles creating mountains while I'm not looking

 

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I think you've missed my point entirely and by majority rule i wasn't clear enough about what my point was but hey, you lot have made it pretty clear i'd be wasting my time anyway

It has confirmed my speculations however, about the game itself having nothing to do with why PvP is so unpopular, at least among the forum population.

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Don't throw your toys out just because people don't like your idea

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Lol, my toys never moved

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You sure about that?

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What I don't agree with are the cries of 'Every one would leave the game!' when I know for a fact that's not true, although alot or even (though i doubt it) the majority may consider leaving the game (or actually leave it, which ever makes you happier), which is why i don't think something like this will be considered for a very long time, if ever

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Make up your mind. Will people leave the game because of this, or not? Additionally, how do you "know for a fact" people wouldn't leave. Have you conducted a survey to find out? There are a large number of people who play CoX simply because it is PVE focused and not PVP. Introduce an open PVP flag system (like the one I believe is in WoW) and people will leave, as for them it's the reason they're not playing other games with the same system.

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From what I understand (and has been forcefully thrown at me) the majority of those 'carebear' players don't want anything to do with PvP, the flag system allows them to carry on and ignore any enamy players safe in the knowlage that those enamy players can't attack them, the ability to 'do their bit' isn't an issue when the player doesn't want to and those that were interested would have a more PvP viable toon available to swap to if they so desired, most players seem to have numerous 50's, respecing one for PvP (or leveling a fresh one up) wouldn't be much of an issue if they wanted it.

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Understood all that from your original idea, but I come back to my original point. If our current PVP zones were a hive of activity, with not a lot going on in the PVE zones, it would suggest that a large proportion of the gaming population likes PVP, and wants to take part in it. The fact that for the most part, PVP zones are nothing but ghost towns, tends to suggest it's something only a committed minority enjoy, so why not just leave it as it is? PVPers get to PVP, PVEers can PVE; everyones happy.

@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat

 

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As far as I can see, there would be no difference between a villain player and a hero player with regards to kill stealing etc. the game already has very good methods of dealing with griefers (ie. virtually every mission is an instance).

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People will always find a way to grief (remember when that guy got his mate to Confuse him in one of the PvP zones so he could nova the RPers at Galaxy Girl before it wore off?), and letting people go into "enemy" PvE zones is asking for trouble, much of it unforseeable from where we are now.

Furthermore, once the ability the go into enemy zones for PvP came in it'd attract more of the PKer type players who get gratification solely from making other people's game as miserable as possible.

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...the ability to 'do their bit' isn't an issue when the player doesn't want to

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I've played enough MMOs to know that a lot of players never miss an opportunity to let other player know how much the 'owe' them. Whether it's hardcore players claiming they keep games running by being on 15 hours a day, or tank-type players saying they are solely responsible for the success of groups, or farmers claiming they keep prices down (even though the 'cheaper' prices are still out of reach of non-farmers). Speaking of farmer look at the bitterness on these forums whenever the subject comes up, and the same with PvP now I come to think of it, but mercifully that bitterness is kept to the forums. Once there's PvP in PvE zones that kind of bitterness would creep into the actual game. That's the sort of thing I play CoX to get away from.

As I said before DAOC has been the best PvP/PvE mixed game I've played and in that the PvE zones were PvP free areas. The only place where PvP occured was in the Frontiers, Battlegrounds and in Darkness Falls when it flipped.

 

Posted

Shame moving this post hear

If you don’t play PVP then you would not necessarily come into the PVP area and so would miss this post completely!

Considering how much debate it was generating were it was…..

 

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Shame moving this post hear

If you don’t play PVP then you would not necessarily come into the PVP area and so would miss this post completely!

Considering how much debate it was generating were it was…..

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Maybe it hit a raw nerve