Micron

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fish ice cream

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pie and several

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the death monkey's

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brand spanking new

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if you rub

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it hard enough

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1. What's a charter?

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From Wikipedia:

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A charter is the grant of authority or rights, stating that the granter formally recognizes the prerogative of the recipient to exercise the rights specified. It is implicit that the granter retains superiority (or sovereignty), and that the recipient admits a limited (or inferior) status within the relationship, and it is within that sense that charters were historically granted, and that sense is retained in modern usage of the term.

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More seriously, I'm sure they meant character.


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4. Also, some conditions for gaining specific badges should REALLY be re-evaluated: and that 4th Damage badge, especially villain side, where it is required to be awarded an Accolade that is much easier to get hero side springs to mind. Constantly. At the very least, the condition that impedes damage to be counted because it affects health awarded through other accolades should be removed.

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OK the 4th damage badge takes a very long time to get for most people but there are other aspects which balance it out a bit, for example demonic aura/eye of the magus, demonic is quite easy to get on a level 25 villain but eye of the magus requires the dreaded 'farm 100's of illusions' badge along with others only available in level 40+ missions. The 4th damage badge does stand out as a little extreme but if you look at the total time needed to get all accolades for each side, it's fairly even and damage badges are pretty easy to get on any toon with a good amount of regen or a non-interuptable self heal (or a friend with a healing aura type power) and alot of time afk.

I know The Karma Police have an SG costume

and

The Cylon Invasion Force consists entirely of identical looking AR/Dev Blasters (apart from one, who is gold) with the same powers (apart from 1 or 2 'free choices'). It's a themed SG with pvp in mind.

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My point is that once people can go into enemy zones to be an enemy, and they can't do anything enemy-like until they are attacked, the way they're going to act like enemies is to cause as much grief as they can in those zones. I'm sure this doesn't apply to all PvPers but some (too many for those of us who want to play the game our own way) are going to find ways to stretch the definition of PvP as far as they can to accomodate as much antagonism as they want.

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I can see that some may be more inclined to grief others with such a system in place, I didn't really think about weather someone would want to, just if someone could or not. Looking at it that way, it is a fair point.

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it's obviously something we're just going to have to agree to disagree on.

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I think you may be right about that. (as long as you agree that i'm right )

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I'd hope the devs would err on the side of caution and steer away from doing something like this.

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I don't think you have much to worry about there! I don't think that the devs want to go scaring people off without a very good reason first

Besides, from some of the rumours floating about and 'the word on the street' the devs already have the next couple of years planned and (fortunatly or unfortunatly, depending who you are) global PvP or anything like it doesn't seem to be in that plan.

At least I can still dream

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You sure about that?

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Yup, i'm quite sure

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Make up your mind. Will people leave the game because of this, or not?

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From some of the reactions here people have stated that they would, I didn't say they wouldn't, just that 'everyone' wouldn't

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Additionally, how do you "know for a fact" people wouldn't leave. Have you conducted a survey to find out?

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In essence, yes I have I've spoken to a number of friends (who play this game), SG members etc. about this idea (I would like to point out that it isn't my idea as a whole, I'm not sure who origionally came up with the concept of global PvP in CoX, I added the (as far as I'm aware) unique flag system among other things). OK, fair enough, the people I've spoken to (and a few of them weren't 100% in favor of it) would count as a minority but a minority saying yes means everyone cannot be saying no if you get my drift. In fact, the only ones I've encountered who have said they would consider leaving (or actually leave without hesitation) have been on this thread.

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There are a large number of people who play CoX simply because it is PVE focused and not PVP. Introduce an open PVP flag system (like the one I believe is in WoW) and people will leave, as for them it's the reason they're not playing other games with the same system.

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Yup, which I said before, people on here have made it pretty clear that they personally would leave so therefore some would leave the game, I just don't beleave the mojority would, it is also why I said I don't think something like this would be implimented for a very long time, if ever, it's just something I would personally like to see.

WoW does have a PvP flag system on some servers but it's basically off untill you perform any action considered by the game, that has an influence on any PvP battle between yourself or any other players(although there ar eexceptions to this), then you are free to be attacked at will for a very long time (the PvP flag seems to 'want' to be on whenever possible in WoW IMO). The flag system I put forward is a little more refined and less open to abuse or accidental switching, though not perfect.


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Understood all that from your original idea, but I come back to my original point. If our current PVP zones were a hive of activity, with not a lot going on in the PVE zones, it would suggest that a large proportion of the gaming population likes PVP, and wants to take part in it. The fact that for the most part, PVP zones are nothing but ghost towns, tends to suggest it's something only a committed minority enjoy, so why not just leave it as it is? PVPers get to PVP, PVEers can PVE; everyones happy.

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Fair enough, as it stands right now, a change like this would be 'against the grain' which brings me back to saying it won't be implimented for a very long time, if ever.

I wouldn't say the PvP zones are ghost towns, well, not sirens or RV at least, I can normally find a willing target whenever I enter them, though I agree they're not exectly 'brimming' with activity

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People will always find a way to grief (remember when that guy got his mate to Confuse him in one of the PvP zones so he could nova the RPers at Galaxy Girl before it wore off?), and letting people go into "enemy" PvE zones is asking for trouble, much of it unforseeable from where we are now.


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Griefing was something I mentioned but a player already has just as many (I'd even say more) ways to grief now, like you mentioned, if one so chooses, any hero can freely attack another hero in a PvE zone (If they work out how to) the difference being, a villain player can be (and most probably will be, by NPC's if no one else) attacked back, a confused hero player can't be (thankfully this type of thing is a rarety).

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Furthermore, once the ability the go into enemy zones for PvP came in it'd attract more of the PKer type players who get gratification solely from making other people's game as miserable as possible.


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Unless I'm missing something (and I'm sure plenty of people round here will gladly point it out if this is the case ), I can't see how some one could PK with this kind of system, by entering an enemy zone you make yourself a target (ready to be PK'd at will) but by being in a friendly zone you are automaticaly not a target (and therefore can't be touched) unless you choose to be, I can't see many PKers having much fun finding out that after battling past bosses & EB's etc to get to atlas, they can't actually attack anyone who doesn't want to be attacked (wich will probably be the vast majority in atlas), but instead they end up having to fight off a bunch of 'Guard' NPC's 'till a group of PvP players show up who 'want' to be attacked.

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I've played enough MMOs to know that a lot of players never miss an opportunity to let other player know how much the 'owe' them. Whether it's hardcore players claiming they keep games running by being on 15 hours a day, or tank-type players saying they are solely responsible for the success of groups, or farmers claiming they keep prices down (even though the 'cheaper' prices are still out of reach of non-farmers). Speaking of farmer look at the bitterness on these forums whenever the subject comes up, and the same with PvP now I come to think of it, but mercifully that bitterness is kept to the forums. Once there's PvP in PvE zones that kind of bitterness would creep into the actual game. That's the sort of thing I play CoX to get away from.


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Like you said, those players claim they are 'owed' something regardless what the game lets them or doesn't let them do, having them 'save' a player who can't be attacked wouldn't change that I don't think.

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As I said before DAOC has been the best PvP/PvE mixed game I've played and in that the PvE zones were PvP free areas. The only place where PvP occured was in the Frontiers, Battlegrounds and in Darkness Falls when it flipped.

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Yup, and I would expect a similar thing to happen here under similar circumstances, players who want to PvP will naturally go to where they expect to be able to find willing opponents, it just gives them (IMO) more oppertinities to find said opponents.

PK stands for Player Killing, from wiki:

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Player killing, or PKing, is non-consensual PvP resulting in a character's death. Some games offer "open PvP" (also sometimes called "world PvP"), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world. An aggressor attacks an opponent without agreement to any set of rules of engagement or combat.

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[edit] missed a typo [/edit]

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Don't throw your toys out just because people don't like your idea.

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Lol, my toys never moved

I did read what you wrote, I was responding to (and quoted) the parts i didn't agree with. (I highlited parts of some quotes to make it more clear which bits I was responding to).

I agree that PvP isn't for everyone (whatever their reasons), I agree that my ideas aren't for everyone and I agree that something like that would need alot of tweeking and balancing (and even then someone would find a way to grief others just as much as they do now).

What I don't agree with are the cries of 'Every one would leave the game!' when I know for a fact that's not true, although alot or even (though i doubt it) the majority may consider leaving the game (or actually leave it, which ever makes you happier), which is why i don't think something like this will be considered for a very long time, if ever.

My responce to Vox was intended for him alone, though it looks like others have taken it as a personal attack on them, it wasn't.

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I read that too and I still think there'd be problems. What would these level 50s be doing in lowbie zones until they get attacked? Killstealing, streetsweeping and generally getting in the way of people who want to play CoX their own way. The only way something like this could work is if all the PvE zones were level locked, meaning that heroes and villains would only be able to enter enemy zones of their own level. Even then there would be problems in the higher zones as regular PvPers with PvP builds are basically untouchable by PvE players with PvE builds, meaning that PvPers' issues with "carebear" players would become more pronounced as they won't be able to do their bit for their side.

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As far as I can see, there would be no difference between a villain player and a hero player with regards to kill stealing etc. the game already has very good methods of dealing with griefers (ie. virtually every mission is an instance).

From what I understand (and has been forcefully thrown at me) the majority of those 'carebear' players don't want anything to do with PvP, the flag system allows them to carry on and ignore any enamy players safe in the knowlage that those enamy players can't attack them, the ability to 'do their bit' isn't an issue when the player doesn't want to and those that were interested would have a more PvP viable toon available to swap to if they so desired, most players seem to have numerous 50's, respecing one for PvP (or leveling a fresh one up) wouldn't be much of an issue if they wanted it.

Perhaps I shouldn't have included the quote from you Standoff, read on it's own you're just saying that you personally don't agree with it but the 'me fourth' part screamed out 'I agree with the previous three people that: everyone would leave'

I'm going to ignore the troll to avoid anymore moles creating mountains while I'm not looking

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Um, I read everything you typed and I still think the majority of people would hate it. I mean, you said nothing about those level 50s being unable to attack all the lowbies in the area, so you've got a bunch of players, lots of them probably brand new to the game being destroyed by a bunch of level 50 villains until a bunch of level 50 heroes show up to fight them off?

So suddenly, instead of being the hero, those lowbies are now the civilians who needs rescuing?

Lame.

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Micron said:

One thing i'd really like to see (not just for the PvP), which has been mentioned by the dev team, is the ability for both Heroes and Villains to freely roam across all zones of both factions, obviously the PvP flag for each player shouldn't be automatically 'on' apart from players in oposition teritory or free fire zones (the current PvP zones for example) but players in a home faction zone can 'toggle on' thir PvP flag by attacking an enemy player or by entering a free fire zone, with their PvP flag toggling back off an hour after their last attack on an enemy player or leaving a free fire or oposite faction zone. The only exceptions to this should be aoe powers (damage auras, pbaoe's and targetted aoe's) are ignored for PvP flag toggling and don't cause damage to any players when the caster's PvP flag is off so a player would have to make a targetted and intended attack to toggle their PvP flag on.


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Not thought about reading a little higher up the thread before replying?

Lame.

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Id say 100%. Most of whom would leave the zone. Many of whom who would be disgusted.

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Most of whom would leave the game .

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Edited for truth.


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There are reasons why most CoX players play CoX and not an open-world PvP game, and the fact that the above doesn't happen is one of them.

As TG pointed out pages and pages ago, PvP in CoX isn't compatible with the way many of us play the game and want to build our characters. Bringing PvP into PvE zones would be CoX's NGE and it'd alienate everyone who plays it exactly because PvE and PvP are completely separate activities.

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This PvE player would be leaving the game double quick.

I have no problem with PvP but it's not really my scene. I will PvP in FNFC but I don't want open warfare thank you very much.

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Me forth. This seems to be something some people have trouble accepting, but a lot of PvEers don't PvP because they don't realise how fun it is, or the rewards aren't sufficient. A lot of us just don't want to PvP.

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Dont fool yourself in the past the amount of people considering PvP an abomination due to their previous experiences is pretty big. Despite the fact that CoH is far friendlier in terms of PKing,ganking,low level ganking and so on.

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/seconded.... A lot!

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Hands up all those who stopped reading after:

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just imagine a team of level 50 villains turning up at atlas

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before they hit the reply button?

I think you've missed my point entirely and by majority rule i wasn't clear enough about what my point was but hey, you lot have made it pretty clear i'd be wasting my time anyway

It has confirmed my speculations however, about the game itself having nothing to do with why PvP is so unpopular, at least among the forum population.

What about the vast number of different powerset combinations, what other game gives you so many choices about how you play as well as how you look!?

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I don't think you could have all zone open - it'd be too weird to have Villains hanging out under the Atlas statue - or Heroes chilling in Grandville.
There would have to be some zones where no enemy was allowed to enter.

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Obviously you don't want to make it easy to get there but i think it should be possible, just imagine a team of level 50 villains turning up at atlas, quicky followed by half a dozen level 50 heroes and a few level 50 NPC's to 'shoo them off' while the strictly PvE players cheer them on alongside a few new lowbies thinking 'Wow! I want to be able to do that one day!"

Pure Heaven!

How many PvE players would'nt be tempted to join in and maybe even tag along for a counter attack in that situation!?

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It would need a lot more than a "little" time, and given that a lot of CoX players aren't here for the PvP, they would be rather cross if the devs waisted yet more vast quantities of time on it instead of adding PvE content.


There are lots of games with good PvP, but very few games which are as much fun PvE as CoX. It should focus on adding more of what it does well, not fiddling with something it does badly.

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But with an expanded dev team, they could now have a dedicated PvP fixer, while still have more people than before to work on the other stuff.

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This.


I agree that the PvE content should be the focus but it doesn't mean they shouldn't spend at least some time improving the PvP (ideally for both the core PvPers and those PvEers wanting to try it out, maybe not in the same zone though ).

One thing i'd really like to see (not just for the PvP), which has been mentioned by the dev team, is the ability for both Heroes and Villains to freely roam across all zones of both factions, obviously the PvP flag for each player shouldn't be automatically 'on' apart from players in oposition teritory or free fire zones (the current PvP zones for example) but players in a home faction zone can 'toggle on' thir PvP flag by attacking an enemy player or by entering a free fire zone, with their PvP flag toggling back off an hour after their last attack on an enemy player or leaving a free fire or oposite faction zone. The only exceptions to this should be aoe powers (damage auras, pbaoe's and targetted aoe's) are ignored for PvP flag toggling and don't cause damage to any players when the caster's PvP flag is off so a player would have to make a targetted and intended attack to toggle their PvP flag on.

If this ever were to happen, PvPers, PvEers and RPers are onto a winner, but I somehow doubt it'll be for a very long time, if ever

Ahh well, One can dream

I must say, you put up a good fight when you want to Clawd

We don't always go for the pvp newbie first, normally we go for the most desruptive (the healer/buffer, ones with high perception or a blaster that can 2 - 3 shot us) provided the newbie plays with a bit of thought (like sticking with their team etc, though i will point out that when people enter a pvp zone pvp-newbie or not, a lot forget to do this)

That rhetoric is probably the taunting i mentioned earlier

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The problem I have had is trying to get the opposition into some sort of combat, they just bounce away after taking damage. Surely if this is PvP, they want to engage? Or basically they know if toe to toe, then there will be only one winner.


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I presume (well, i know some of the time) you were facing stalkers, for a stalker to go toe to toe with a scrapper can only have one of two outcomes:

1. the stalker gets anhialated
2. the scrapper gets annoyed at the stalker for not playing like a scrapper

The trick is to force the stalker to play like a scrapper (admitidly not easy to do on your own) then see how alarmingly squishy they are!

Something occurred to me while reading this thread, to those that have been put off by the trash talk etc. in pvp zones (perticularly sirens call): Was it directed at you or at someone else?

I'm asking bacause when i or any of my sg mates gets a kill on one of our group (i.e. our group of friends) it's often followed up with a tuant or two (often both on vent and in broadcast), we see it as part of the fun, if some one outside of the group joins in, all the better but it's not expected or taken seriously. I'm woundering if we've inadvertantly put someone off pvp by doing this?

For those that have been put off by the chat or trash talk (on defiant), come and join us one of the evenings, give it another go, i can't garentee there won't be any idiots about but i can garentee most of us are actually quite welcoming, mature and fair (and sometimes even fun to play with/against ) and if you have any questions or want to know why/how something happened that you weren't expecting, just ask!

One of us normally puts a call out, late evening/night, just bring yourself and the expectation to die alot (just like the rest of us do) and you'll be fine

As for improvements, firstly get rid of those damn npc's! All of them!

Other than that, merging the pvp zones across more/all servers would be a help. It might even be an idea to allow 'pvp only' toons to be made, where you create a toon at level 50 with all enhancements available for free but they are limited to pocket d and the pvp zones only and can't trade with other players, that way everyone can have a pvp toon without limiting their pve toons (and would give rp'ers a new toy ). As for the pvp zones, i think they need to be scrapped and remade, focusing more on what they're there for, no heavies, npc's (apart from some base defenders), pill boxes, rockets or meteors that just get in the way, i'd even go so far as to say make them smaller and disable travel powers (although that still leaves a little problem of stalkers). The zones need a purpose or goal but the ones currently in place do nothing for pvp, the sirens bounty system also needs expanding, it's hardly worth it as it is.

[Edit]Damn, someone added an extra page to this thread while i wasn't looking [/Edit]

Many (many many) Happy Returns Cry ya old get

May your day be filled with more alcohol than debt for a change

Have a good 'un

(I agree with nom though, this should be under technical support or something )

Happy belated b-day mate, glad to hear you had a good one!

I had the same performance problems even though i'm not running herostats/lcd and lowering all settings to minimum had no effect.

After a little playing around i worked out that xfire also causes these symptoms (i now switch it off when playing CoX)

Gratz on being the first CYLON to 50

Well done mate

Well, it's all over!

First of all, a big Thanks to all those who took part,It was a pretty good turn out and i think it was quite an enjoyable few hours!

On to the bit you're all waiting for..

And the winners were;

Dutty winning the grand prize of 100 mill for finding all 5 hiders

and,

Grumpy Old Blastard winning 20 mill For getting the dead karma cop back to us safely!

Congratuations to both of you!

Finally, A huge Well Done to Exoskeleton (aka Skylancer) for organising this event, You did a fantastic job mate!

A few screenies:

Gaining Interest

The Masses Gathering

Gearing Up To Start

After Event Celebrations

The Presentation

The Man Himself

Going Out in Style!

And The De-Brief Back At Karma HQ

Well, I had to get a shot of the base in there somewhere!

Depends on the sets involved

Besides, who doesn't want a good laugh and the chance at 100 mill!?

Hi all!

The Karma Police SG are holding a Hardcore Hide & Seek event!

When: Saturday 2nd February 2008 at 13:00 Hours

Where: Defient Server, The Event starts under the atlas statue

Why: Seamed like a good idea at the time and there aren't enough cool player run events in this game, so we thought we'd change that a little!

Who can enter: Everyone! levels 1 to 50 (although higher levels might have a slight advantage!)

What do I do: Just turn up at the Atlas statue at 13:00 hours (that's 1pm) UK time on Saturday 2nd Feb, there will be Karma's on site to help out, answer questions & get people to the starting zone. So, all you need to do is turn up and find those hiders!

Be warned though, this is Hardcore Hide & Seek, it could take a while to compleate the task! It's a bit like night orienteering with no tourches and added Hellions!

And last but not least, there's a whopping 100 million inf up for grabs!! That's right! one hundred million, just think off all the IO sets you could buy with that!

Good luck & I'll see you under the atlas statue, Saturday 2nd Feb at 13:00 Hours!

Micron.

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"cysts dont hurt kheldians"

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This is actually based on fact, apart from the cyst dying, all of it's (and Dwarf & Nova's) damage is Neg (or NRG) which, as mentioned before, Khelds have a natural resistance to (their level 1 auto shield), combined with the fact that Dwarf form has high resistance and Nova has some (15%) built-in Neg/NRG res, a Kheld will take less damage then most of their team mates, even with out their toggle shields.

TBH, i think the two kheld AT's are pretty well balanced, My PB is a high level AOE specialist (My WS isn't high enough to specialise yet ) and have been in situations were a WS has made my PB look weak, but i've also been in just as many situations where i've made that same WS look weak, I honestly don't think there is a stronger kheld out of the two, they just play to different strengths and styles and as long as you choose the one that fits with your play style, it will be powerfull!