Has PvP in CoH seriously faceplanted
By
Alphane,
Posted on: 2008-08-19 21:07 in Everything about PvP
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You know like the costume slots where you can change your costume, might be we could have one PvE and one PvP powersets slot. In which case you can have a PvE build for regular play and have the option to switch to the PvP build upon (and only upon) entering the PvP zones.
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I'd love that as well. The only reason it might be a bit complicated is how do you deal with the enhancements? The optional PvP build starts with none? That means I have to respec out from my current PvE build (several times) to move my purples into the new one. The initial build is copied from my current PvE build, down to the enhacements - opens opportunities for enhancement Purple-cloning... etc.
I'm amongst the people who'd love to see the ability to switch between builds as well, but there are a few problems here and there.
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
Even if you could repec your build for PvP, it doesn't solve the problem of inbalance between ATs and specific powersets.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I'm a fairly casual gamer who doesn't consider PvP an abomination
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You deserve a medal then around here 
[/ QUOTE ]Can I have one too?
Not that I PvP at all nowdays, but then again, I don't really play the game at all anymore.
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Even if you could repec your build for PvP, it doesn't solve the problem of inbalance between ATs and specific powersets.
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But it goes some way towards easing the Build imbalance which is more noticable for some builds than others. For example a lot of Scrappers would do alright in casual PvP with their PvE build, but for others there's a lot of powers which are useless (Controller AOE powers for example, which eat slots in PvE and yet and still fairly useless in PvP)
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Even if you could repec your build for PvP, it doesn't solve the problem of inbalance between ATs and specific powersets.
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But it would bring more people to the actual PvP fields. While it wouldn't bring balance to the ATs and powersets, it would drop the need to think about a character in the "do I want to make this a pvp or pve character" -way. You could do both.
Granted, the character I most PvP (Codlest War) with is in a PvE spec, because he's also a concept character. But he's in a lucky spot of being one of those few powerset combos that can pull it off (and not perfectly, I can say that). If given the opportunity to split him into a pvp and pve spec, I would make a more viable pvp build for him.
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
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Scrappers would do alright in casual PvP
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Eh? until some ranged attacker starts kiting them you mean? defeating a melee AT with a ranged AT isn't rocket science, even a casual PvPer can work it out.
Easing imbalance doesn't help. there will still be leet builds and leet players, and they are what put casual players off.
Some sort of ranking or handicapping system would be more useful, so players are always PvPing against opponents at thier own level.
I really should do something about this signature.
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But it would bring more people to the actual PvP fields.
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I doubt it. Someone who was not already a PvP fan really wouldn't be bothered, or have the knowledge, to create a PvP build.
What it would do is make the lives of people who are already into PvP easier, by letting them create a PvE build for leveling and farming.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Scrappers would do alright in casual PvP
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Eh? until some ranged attacker starts kiting them you mean? defeating a melee AT with a ranged AT isn't rocket science, even a casual PvPer can work it out.
Easing imbalance doesn't help. there will still be leet builds and leet players, and they are what put casual players off.
Some sort of ranking or handicapping system would be more useful, so players are always PvPing against opponents at thier own level.
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I disagree, easing imbalance would help, by definition. Of course there's always going to be "leet" or "professional" builds which will always beat me anyway, but at least the gap is closed (and a lot of leet or pros aren't going to be too bothered with killing me over and over).
I'm not claiming a dual-build system would fix everything and all would be good, but with the low levels of players in the EU any sort of ranking system is going to be pretty barren IMO. You need a large pool of potential players so that any ranking system will provide you with an equally skilled and online opponent at any time. Otherwise it becomes a bit pointless
I can't believe we're still having this discussion. It's been going on since PvP was put in the game and it's still going on, with exactly the same suggestions and arguments.
The dual-build idea has been floating for 3 or 4 years. There was never a satisfactory way to deal with enhancements that I can recall.
And it is highly unlikely that even that would do more than encourage a couple of players to do some casual PvP once in a while. I would, for example, until I got fed up with PvP jerks and had to go away until I'd forgotten they were there again.
And I want a medal too. I don't think PvP is an abomination, I think a significant minority of PvPers are an abomination. 
Oh, and a casual PvE Scrapper will get his behind handed to him in a doggy bag most of the time in a PvP zone.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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About PvP balance.This game is balanced totally around team.
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The trouble is that it's not structured around teams. There are no PvP incentives for teams, no advantages in going up against a similarly sized team, no score for teams (hell, there isn't even a kill count) and no in-game concept of team victory. Two teams go up against each other, the hospital works towards turning the whole thing into a long, dull slog with no clear outcome. Sure, one team maybe had more faceplants than the other but ... eh, so what?
PvP in City of Heroes, and in particular on a team, just doesn't have any sense of accomplishment to me.
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Couldnt agree more.This is why i said that they should drastically consider adding some things that already exist in other MMO's that wanted PvP to be a more team thing.
One thing that could also work nicely could maybe be not allowing be in PvP zones unteamed.I mean uppon entering PvP zone to automatically join a team that is active inside the zone.Essentially imho all people in the zone should be teamed no matter the size. 1 team for heroes 1 for villains.
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Scrappers would do alright in casual PvP
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Eh? until some ranged attacker starts kiting them you mean? defeating a melee AT with a ranged AT isn't rocket science, even a casual PvPer can work it out.
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Which is another point to PvP. You adapt. If you're melee and you come up against a ranged player and get your backside handed to you, you find a way to overcome that. It gets you thinking. And when you're successful (even just once) at overcoming that particular challenge then you do feel a sense of achievement. Besides, scrapper secondaries aren't weak.
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What it would do is make the lives of people who are already into PvP easier, by letting them create a PvE build for leveling and farming.
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My glass is half full, your is half empty, but at least your's is filled with razor blades.
I know many people who have their main prepped for PvE play. They like their powersets and how they handle in the PvE environment, but have found out that the powers they have chosen and how they're slotted on the character they love don't really allow them to be that effective in the pvp fields.
They could of course make a more or less identical character (since they love the powersets and feel emotionally attached to the character), but with more accuracy and less AoE, but that's another grind to 50 and you now have two nearly identical characters filling your slots.
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
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One thing that could also work nicely could maybe be not allowing be in PvP zones unteamed.I mean uppon entering PvP zone to automatically join a team that is active inside the zone.Essentially imho all people in the zone should be teamed no matter the size. 1 team for heroes 1 for villains.
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This might be a problem for those that actually do zonal team pvp. considering the team limit is only 8 (and i highly doubt that is something they're ever going to change) a lot of people would moan at being assigned to a random team, especially if they wanted to join up with members of their SG/VG etc. Would be a nice idea though if they could scrap the 8 man team cap for zonal pvp only
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This might be a problem for those that actually do zonal team pvp. considering the team limit is only 8 (and i highly doubt that is something they're ever going to change) a lot of people would moan at being assigned to a random team, especially if they wanted to join up with members of their SG/VG etc. Would be a nice idea though if they could scrap the 8 man team cap for zonal pvp only
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"Oh boy, I got into a full team of 8.. Why are you all in the hospital?"
"We're farming for the time spent on the zone badge. The other 7 guys in the zone are actually pvp:ing... oh, sorry, make that 8, the other team is full now as well."
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
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One thing that could also work nicely could maybe be not allowing be in PvP zones unteamed.I mean uppon entering PvP zone to automatically join a team that is active inside the zone.Essentially imho all people in the zone should be teamed no matter the size. 1 team for heroes 1 for villains.
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This might be a problem for those that actually do zonal team pvp. considering the team limit is only 8 (and i highly doubt that is something they're ever going to change) a lot of people would moan at being assigned to a random team, especially if they wanted to join up with members of their SG/VG etc. Would be a nice idea though if they could scrap the 8 man team cap for zonal pvp only
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Shouldnt be a problem if u join as a team in the zone.What i am saying is essentially when u enter PvP zone to join Raid.See health bars,buffs etc of all heroes in zone and be able cooperate with them.You can still go in with your friends sg/vg as a team you just join the raid inside the zone.
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This might be a problem for those that actually do zonal team pvp. considering the team limit is only 8 (and i highly doubt that is something they're ever going to change) a lot of people would moan at being assigned to a random team, especially if they wanted to join up with members of their SG/VG etc. Would be a nice idea though if they could scrap the 8 man team cap for zonal pvp only
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"Oh boy, I got into a full team of 8.. Why are you all in the hospital?"
"We're farming for the time spent on the zone badge. The other 7 guys in the zone are actually pvp:ing... oh, sorry, make that 8, the other team is full now as well."
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Tbh they should make timer for badge to stop counting when you sit in safe zone.
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One thing that could also work nicely could maybe be not allowing be in PvP zones unteamed.I mean uppon entering PvP zone to automatically join a team that is active inside the zone.Essentially imho all people in the zone should be teamed no matter the size. 1 team for heroes 1 for villains.
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This might be a problem for those that actually do zonal team pvp. considering the team limit is only 8 (and i highly doubt that is something they're ever going to change) a lot of people would moan at being assigned to a random team, especially if they wanted to join up with members of their SG/VG etc. Would be a nice idea though if they could scrap the 8 man team cap for zonal pvp only
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Shouldnt be a problem if u join as a team in the zone.What i am saying is essentially when u enter PvP zone to join Raid.See health bars,buffs etc of all heroes in zone and be able cooperate with them.You can still go in with your friends sg/vg as a team you just join the raid inside the zone.
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Again, a good idea, and one I would like to see implemented, but not sure how it would work in Warburg though 
It wouldnt .Only in Factional zones.
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You adapt. If you're melee and you come up against a ranged player and get your backside handed to you, you find a way to overcome that. It gets you thinking.
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Why am I reminded of my boss cutting my deadline in half and telling me "don't think of it as a problem, think of it as a challenge"?
I know. When you enter a PvP Zone, you could enter a queue which would let you into an Instance of the zone when a suitable number of players on both side were available. Of course, to make sure there were always enough players they would probably have to share the Instance servers between all the game servers.
Hmm, yes, we could call them, um... Battlezones! Yeah, great idea. I'm on a roll. Pretty sure no one has come up with this before.
Hmm? What's a 'WoW?'
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
The majority of the time, the zones are dead anyway with no more than 2 people, it's only on peak times on a night where you get more than 10 people in the zone, so this queuing system would fail.
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You adapt. If you're melee and you come up against a ranged player and get your backside handed to you, you find a way to overcome that. It gets you thinking.
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Why am I reminded of my boss cutting my deadline in half and telling me "don't think of it as a problem, think of it as a challenge"?
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Probably because it's the same concept. Adapt and die.
No, I mean 'and', there's no 'or' involved.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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It wouldnt .Only in Factional zones.
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Ah, got ya
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Why am I reminded of my boss cutting my deadline in half and telling me "don't think of it as a problem, think of it as a challenge"?
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What scares me most is that you are thinking of your boss
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The majority of the time, the zones are dead anyway with no more than 2 people, it's only on peak times on a night where you get more than 10 people in the zone, so this queuing system would fail.
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That's why you pool all the potential players from both sides of the Atlantic using the Battlezone servers.
And I can't believe anyone took that even vaguely seriously.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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About PvP balance.This game is balanced totally around team.
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The trouble is that it's not structured around teams. There are no PvP incentives for teams, no advantages in going up against a similarly sized team, no score for teams (hell, there isn't even a kill count) and no in-game concept of team victory. Two teams go up against each other, the hospital works towards turning the whole thing into a long, dull slog with no clear outcome. Sure, one team maybe had more faceplants than the other but ... eh, so what?
PvP in City of Heroes, and in particular on a team, just doesn't have any sense of accomplishment to me.