Has PvP in CoH seriously faceplanted
By
Alphane,
Posted on: 2008-08-19 21:07 in Everything about PvP
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but of the PvP implementation
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Given that the hero ATs where not designed with PvP in mind, there was no way to implement PvP in a way that would be balanced, without completly changing everything that had already been done in the game.
there are only two win scenarios for balanced PvP:
1) Design it in from the start
2) Don't have any PvP
I really should do something about this signature.
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Given that the hero ATs where not designed with PvP in mind, there was no way to implement PvP in a way that would be balanced, without completly changing everything that had already been done in the game.
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*shrugs* Perhaps, although there's certainly a lot of things they could have done better. The fact remains, though, that CoH's PvP is a lame duck, and seems destined to stay that way.
On stalkers:
Yes, they are very difficult for inexperienced PvPers to counter, and someone who hasn't played one in PvP has no way to know how difficult it was for them to land that 2 shot kill. This is true with a real life assassin to though. Weeks of planning, they have to slip past the guards, find a vantage point, wait for hours or days etc, but as far as the victim is concerened, its just a matter of one minute you are alive, then bang, you're dead, and there was nothing you could have done about it.
The irony is, stalkers are utter rubbish against hard core PvPers who know how to counter them.
Niether case is a recipe for fun.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Given that the hero ATs where not designed with PvP in mind, there was no way to implement PvP in a way that would be balanced, without completly changing everything that had already been done in the game.
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*shrugs* Perhaps, although there's certainly a lot of things they could have done better. The fact remains, though, that CoH's PvP is a lame duck, and seems destined to stay that way.
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Thats your view on it but its far from the truth
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Obviously you have a different perception of moving than cause AS wont fire under constant movement.Roll a stalker and try it.
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I have two. AS requires about 3 seconds to fire, but it initiates instantly and once queued it always hits. You just need to be standing beside your target, in melee range, for enough time to hit the fire button and you have them nailed. No matter how much they jump around, they'll get hit.
Either the Stalker in my case had staked out a patrol checkpoint, or they followed me and hit me while I stopped to click a checkpoint. You cannot, possibly, move all the time. As Zortel said, you have to stop to attack, even if only for a second. But a second is all that's needed.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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The irony is, stalkers are utter rubbish against hard core PvPers who know how to counter them.
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Thats not the case for all stalkers, not for mine anyway
Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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What on earth are you on about, it requires you to use the move forward button.
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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Don't forget stacked perception bonuses and an ability to handle alpha strikes without caving.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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The irony is, stalkers are utter rubbish against hard core PvPers who know how to counter them.
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Thats not the case for all stalkers, not for mine anyway
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Ok, I agree I was exagerating, a well built PvP stalker in the hands of a skilled PvPer is still dangerous, but against experienced oposition it is far from the "I win" button that it is against the inexperienced.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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True but all that means is they will learn the hard way, everyone was a pvp newbie at some point you can only learn by taking part.
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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What on earth are you on about, it requires you to use the move forward button.
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A Stalker who can't work out how to target someone under those conditions needs to play something else.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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True but all that means is they will learn the hard way, everyone was a pvp newbie at some point you can only learn by taking part.
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See previous post concerning learning from unwinable situations. They just put people off, they don't induce learning.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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Don't forget stacked perception bonuses and an ability to handle alpha strikes without caving.
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Oh yeah, there are lots of other ways to counter stalkers, some of which are even available to inexerienced players (e.g. Dull Pain), but they are not available to all powersets, unlike movement, which anyone can do.
I really should do something about this signature.
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A Stalker who can't work out how to target someone under those conditions needs to play something else.
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Well you get your stalker and AS me while im moving forward and im happy to make you right.
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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True but all that means is they will learn the hard way, everyone was a pvp newbie at some point you can only learn by taking part.
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See previous post concerning learning from unwinable situations. They just put people off, they don't induce learning.
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But there is nothing that can be done about that, all that means is if they realy want to pvp they will learn how to counter a stalker and if they dont well then stick to nice safe pve
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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True but all that means is they will learn the hard way, everyone was a pvp newbie at some point you can only learn by taking part.
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See previous post concerning learning from unwinable situations. They just put people off, they don't induce learning.
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It's not an unwinnable situtaion, it just looks like an unwinnable situation, which has the same effect.
I really should do something about this signature.
FYI to all the stalker haters, popping a break free negates placate.
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*shrugs* Perhaps, although there's certainly a lot of things they could have done better. The fact remains, though, that CoH's PvP is a lame duck, and seems destined to stay that way.
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Thats your view on it but its far from the truth
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So what is the truth? Massive uptake of PvP among the playerbase? Siren's Call overflowing with players on Thursdays night? Large changes on the horizon promising to make PvP mainstream? CoH's PvP well reknowned compared to the PvP of other games?
Come on -- PvP has had plenty of time and attention given to it over the last couple of years. If it was going to take off, it would have done so already. It's a lame duck. It limps along, but empathically does not fly, and there's nothing to suggest it'll fly in the future.
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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True but all that means is they will learn the hard way, everyone was a pvp newbie at some point you can only learn by taking part.
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Or just look at it like this:
"That guy was invisible and killed me in two hits before I could react. Screw this."
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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What on earth are you on about, it requires you to use the move forward button.
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In most PvP zones, they have these things called walls, which you will eventually hit if you just press move forward.
Not to mention it is very difficult to achieve anything meaningful, or have any fun, when all you are doing is moving forward.
I really should do something about this signature.
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It limps along, but empathically does not fly, and there's nothing to suggest it'll fly in the future.
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A lame duck could still fly.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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True but all that means is they will learn the hard way, everyone was a pvp newbie at some point you can only learn by taking part.
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Or just look at it like this:
"That guy was invisible and killed me in two hits before I could react. Screw this."
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My point proven that player is not cut out for pvp and should stick to pve
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Come on -- PvP has had plenty of time and attention given to it over the last couple of years. If it was going to take off, it would have done so already. It's a lame duck. It limps along, but empathically does not fly, and there's nothing to suggest it'll fly in the future.
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Did i miss the time spent on pvp over the last few years as from what i can see there has been no time spent on it
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if you make stalkers much less 'i win' combat then I know my entire sg would pvp more.
Sick and tired of the stupid 2 hit deaths they manage on all but tankers, even the +perception does nothing unless you happen to be carrying a full pouch of yellows AND use them at the right time.
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Sorry but lol at this stalkers are so far from that you have to be joking, i have 3 stalkers one of whom i use for pvp and yes i can take down alot of players with two shots but imo those are not good pvpers, if i come against a good pvper a two hit kill is just not going to happen. Also you think you have it hard try being a stalker taking on a toon with +per and clear mind stacked thats hard. Also standing still in a pvp zone = death simple fact, keep moving and i cant AS you or you will make it harder for me to do so
Pvp is alot about tactics as well as having a good build, unless you know how to pvp you could have the best build in the world and still get taken out
As for the main question in this topic no i dont think pvp has faceplanted although i do feel there is still lot that needs to be done to balance it, empathy on hero side for one until this issue is sorted there is nothing villain side to balance the effect this set has on a pvp fight.