Has PvP in CoH seriously faceplanted
By
Alphane,
Posted on: 2008-08-19 21:07 in Everything about PvP
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And sneaking about RPing in a PVP zone was fun, with the moment of tenseness when a villain was spotted.
What do we get in PVP Zones? Bounty in Sirens Call, but if you don't have the NPC on your side to buy things due to zone balence shift, then it's pretty much useless.
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There are 2 points in regards to Sirens Call:
1) To Obtain the bounty on the applicable target (as you have stated)
2) To re-gain (or keep hold of) control of SC in order to spend that bounty.
The fact that you can't spend the bounty earned means you have to regain the map. There is no point saying that the bounty is pointless when it states on your navigation bar who is in control. Read it. Act upon it. Simple.
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'tis an good point, and the difference is, FPS success is based entirely on player skill.
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Can't agree much with this. Yes skill is involved, but a lot of the time it generally comes down to who has the bigger gun. (Halo 2 - Me in Scorpion, you with only a pistol...work it out)
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Stalkers aint hard to get around, just dont stand still, i dont know how many times thats been said.
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^ This. Couldn't agree more. Cookie for Londoner 
If you are bothered about entering a zone where stalkers populate it then don't stand still. Yes, there are times where you can't avoid standing still (or be speeding/jumping about like a lunatic) but that's life. If you get killed. Go hospital/rez. Deal with it.
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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Don't forget stacked perception bonuses and an ability to handle alpha strikes without caving.
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Yes. Fair enough. But anyone that is new to PvP has to go through the same learning curve everyone else that PvPs has had to go through. There is no point saying this, that and the other in regards to new players to support your claims because the same can be said for those new players that have to go through the PvE side. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Learn and Adapt.
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Or just look at it like this:
"That guy was invisible and killed me in two hits before I could react. Screw this."
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And its this kind of attitude that puts new players off from PvPing, or in any case from playing the game altogether. All they are going to think now after reading that is 'why bother?' 
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Ok i didnt mean moving forward literally, i meant moving about.
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If I'm moving about, I can't chat. If I can't chat in a MMO, well... they're supposed to be social, aren't they?
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You can get around this, as many others have, by using programs such as Ventrilo. And its not that hard to stop for 3 seconds or so to type something 
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good point, and you also can't RP, which pretty much rules out RP-PvP.
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Sorry, but what is stopping those who RP from setting up a match in Pocket D or the arena to do this? I can answer that for you...
Nothing. 
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No. I want the time and ability to talk to my team, to make IC taunts and curses, to roleplay, to have a fun, lighthearted conversation while I'm playing. Not before I'm playing, or after I've played -- during. In PvE there's enough time between mobs to do this, and, depending on the team and your role in it, sometimes even in the middle of the fray. In PvP? "Can't stop. Stalker might get me. Can't stop. Stalker might get me."
It's one thing to be too busy to chat because things are exploding everywhere and the game takes all your attention -- but being too busy to chat because maybe, possibly there could be a potential stalker around? Meh. Fenris take that. I find this kind of gameplay inane, irritating and stupid. It holds no appeal to me whatsoever.
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Just give it a miss then mate, or dont worry about the odd death while chatting.
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There is a bunch of techniques to even land the first strike on stalkers yourself.
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Examples. Tell us what they are. You might even get a few people actually trying them so there'll be more people in the PvP Zones.
Come on, money where mouth is.
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a) Movement: Not only forward but vertical as well.Bunny Hoping is a trend for this exactly reason.It makes AS impossible if done right and constantly.
b)Inspiration: Most stalker will try negate movement by opening with a stun followed by placate and AS.For squishies a breakfree when a stalker lurks around is life saving
c) Buff bar: Its where PvP starts to get complicated.Attacks appear before they actually land.They give you a split of a second to react.The more you practise the more efficient you become in negating AS.Usually a reconstruction or dull pain the moment AS icon appears is enough.For squishies greens insps,heals, and hibernate do the trick
d)Tp foe AS.Most dangerous technique and biggest trend right now in PvP zones.This is hardest thing to negate.its a 50/50 chance but the moment tp icon appears you need to start movign the opposite way you are getting tped.This will lead into you jumping out of location where AS awaits.There is a 50/50 chance AS will start and if it does you got the time to negate it either by healing/poping insp/reconstructing etc etc.This is usually dangerous for squishies.
These are some pretty basic techniques to negate stalkers first hit on you.There are advanced techniques like poping accolades,phasing.using kb uppong breaking hide and so on but these require to know your toon inside out and have huge experience on PvP animation chaining and so on.
As far as first strike goes.99% of stalkers feel safe.Thats their biggest weakness.They stand and observe the preys waiting for opportunity.And this is perfect opportunity to catch them.What you need to do is jump high and start moving around.There is a distance within which there is a stealth check.You can see the stalker for a few split seconds and then he vanishes.Playing in and out with movement with this stealth check allows you to keep track of the stalker.Its hard,its not easy takes a lot of practise.Once you nail it tho you can start using auras and PBAoE's to unhide them.I have lost count by now the amount of stalkers i have one shotted with inferno while they are hidden.
Finally use environment wisely.If you know there is a stalker around lure him on water.This is top tactics because if you got details high enough you can see the unsuspected stalker trails and you know exactly where he is going.You can even calculate AS strikes by waiting him come stand next to you,the moment he stands still its certain AS is coming so be prepared.Heal and let it rip.Works everytime.
These are but a few very effective and fairly easy with some training tactics.
As far a builds go biggest thing that someone can do to increase his chances against stalkers and without spending a dime is get all the +hp accolades. The more hp the less easy you die and the more time u get to react.If you manage to bring your hp high enough to not die from the first 2 hits its basically easy from then on.
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Come on, money where mouth is.
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I dont need put any money I pvp since day 1 against stalkers got 4-5 400pvp reputation toons including a rubbish AR/Dev.By now its really predictable what they gonna do all it takes is a little practise and not get discouraged from dying and from the trashtalk that goes on at times.
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Yes. Fair enough. But anyone that is new to PvP has to go through the same learning curve everyone else that PvPs has had to go through. There is no point saying this, that and the other in regards to new players to support your claims because the same can be said for those new players that have to go through the PvE side. I've say it before, and I'll say it again, Learn and Adapt.
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And its this kind of attitude that puts new players off from PvPing, or in any case from playing the game altogether. All they are going to think now after reading that is 'why bother?'
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Frankly, they can read it here or go into the zone and get assassinated... often while moving. Either way they might as well not bother since the reply comes from the PvP community "L2P n00b."
I'm still waiting for TG to tell me about those techniques for getting the drop on a Stalker without seeing him first.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I was in Warburg this afternoon, enjoying some nice IC banter on my Fire/Fire Blaster. Playful taunting to villains, comic style banter, and some clashes. Of course, with a Dominator and a Bane Spider, I couldn't really take one on without dealing with the other, so I soon got planted. I asked if some friends wanted to join me, they didn't really.
I go back out and try to have some fun, but with the enemy team mix, if I stopped to attack one I'd have been held and AS'ed, or just AS'ed. A couple of deaths involved waiting around for a while so that Rest recharged so I could regain my HP and go back out there, died a bit more, decided to call it an afternoon and play some Team Fortress 2.
In order to avoid stalker attacks while bantering on Broadcast, I had to stick auto run on and steer with one hand on my mouse, running about in a lap of the blocks while typing with one hand. It was either that or run back to the ship to talk, before heading back.
I want to have fun in PVP, and I don't really get that in PVP zones. Between having to worry between players and mobs, or even worse getting attacked in a mob and getting debt, and more than likely being outclassed by any PVPer in the zone, I'll probably just stick to Arenas, and only ever venture into PVP zones late at night to get badges.
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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.
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True but all that means is they will learn the hard way, everyone was a pvp newbie at some point you can only learn by taking part.
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Or just look at it like this:
"That guy was invisible and killed me in two hits before I could react. Screw this."
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My point proven that player is not cut out for pvp and should stick to pve
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Which is what most people do, hence why so few people PVP. If you want more people PVPing then the way it works needs to change, not the players.
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Yes true it does need to change but i would like to know what the non pvpers who have posted here think should be done given that they dont take part and dont have a clue for the best part on what they are talking about
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That's pretty insulting really, I would have suggested something but since you insist that non-PvPers "for the best part" don't have a clue what they're talking about, even though what most of us are talking about is why we don't like it in this game, then I won't bother.
An empty pvp zone in this game is no skin off my nose after all.
What I do suggest to non-pvpers like myself is that you don't bother replying to threads like this in future because the pvp crowd really just don't want to know.
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
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and not get discouraged from dying and from the trashtalk that goes on at times.
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Thats the thing to remember.
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Yes. Fair enough. But anyone that is new to PvP has to go through the same learning curve everyone else that PvPs has had to go through. There is no point saying this, that and the other in regards to new players to support your claims because the same can be said for those new players that have to go through the PvE side. I've say it before, and I'll say it again, Learn and Adapt.
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And its this kind of attitude that puts new players off from PvPing, or in any case from playing the game altogether. All they are going to think now after reading that is 'why bother?'
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Frankly, they can read it here or go into the zone and get assassinated... often while moving. Either way they might as well not bother since the reply comes from the PvP community "L2P n00b."
I'm still waiting for TG to tell me about those techniques for getting the drop on a Stalker without seeing him first.
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A small minority of the PvP community, [u]not[u] all of the PvP community. Getting kind of tired of the decent pvpers getting tarnished with the same stuff that comes from the idiots that do make pvp not fun to play.
And just so I know, what does "L2P" mean?
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What I do suggest to non-pvpers like myself is that you don't bother replying to threads like this in future because the pvp crowd really just don't want to know.
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Not being funny Vox, but you have been on many a anti-pvp rant regardless of what thread it is, doesn't matter who has posted or what they have posted, it has always resulted in you basically saying "Remove PvP and I'M happy". Dude, wake up and realise there is more people than just you playing this game, and realise not everyone is going to agree with your anti pvp comments. And while your at it, try to change your negative anti-pvp comments to constructive positive "what i'd like to see change in pvp to make it more fun to play" comments, rather than just the " removePVPremovePVPremovePVP " comments i tend to see from you...
Just wanted to say that if anyone wants to do some team PvP just for the experience feel free to send me a tell @Tainted Greek,i am happy to do some casual teaming in RV/Warburg or even have some arena fun just to practise and get some experience on how things go in a team and so on.
Its not so black as some people see it.Yes there are feuds in PvP between people and SG's and yes things get heated at times.But in the end its easy to get past all this and just enjoy some casual bashing its very relaxing and a good adrenaline rush at the same time.I dont pvp only in teams i can go in zones solo on squishies and die again and again i still have fun when i know i put a good fight and i always come back to fight again even on gimped toons. I pvp on a pb ffs!
EDIT: Just to clarify i aint no righteous.I have my own dirty past of trashtalking and i am a hothead myself and tend to get out of control if things heat up.Most of PvPers do not act like this tho and most of the times is pretty cool.At times it can get more dramatic than titanic but thats another story 
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Just give it a miss then mate, or dont worry about the odd death while chatting.
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Oh, I am giving it a miss. That's a given. In this thread I'm just explaining why I'm giving it a miss.
The thing that annoys me the most is the immature attitude that is often in PVP.
Excample...
I am with my mm in RV. A blaster lvl 45 uber pvp build tries to one-shot me... He prob. thought "mm is low hit points, I dont need to use that many reds."
He shoots me in the back.. I am left alive with 1/10 th hit points... do a fear (he was obviously to close)... an Howling Twilight stun and kill him withing 15 seconds flat...
Now the mature reaction would be... "Wow.. you survived. Nice build." or "Cool.. usually I one-shot mm's." or even "Damn... how did you do that?". Instead he looks at my power set and level and I get "He.. you're lvl 50 with lots of IO set bonuses... not fair. I am only 45."
What would he have set if he managed to one-shot me in the back?
Other way around...
If I am one-shotted several times by the same ganker... in such a way I can't move about. The build is so uber I can't win it. I am in my complete right to call in help. If I want to I can get two full teams of 8 hunt the ganker down within 20 min.. Having him die so many times he flees the pvp zone crying "Not fair!" I find that un-humane and will not do that unless it's an utter insensitive ego-maniac. So I will not do it. But it is within my rights.
My coolest pvp was where I was hunting a blaster pvp built and we where pm-ing each other about it after each kill. I would tp him from the shadows and kill him... he would shoot me in the back. And both where having fun getting the other first. THAT's mature PVP! But this is very very rare...
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Given that PvP was a late addition to the CoH format and
1/The need for somewhat esoteric builds
2/The demented 'space hopper jousting' style of PvP
3/The exclusion of all but about 20% (random estimate) of powersets for viable PvP toons
Are NC flogging a dead horse here or do people disagree?
And if you disagree what would you suggestetions to improve the interest in PvP beyond those 'hardcore' fans.
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I agree with TG. The PvP in CoX is actually great fun, perfectly fine gameplay-wise, and well balanced team v team, there just needs to be some more love from the devs for PvP in terms of integrating it more with the game and making it more attractive to those who'd maybe like to give it a go but find no incentives to participate especially.
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I am with my mm in RV.
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I can confirm Liz MM is pretty scary 
have died from those pets a couple of times
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Not being funny Vox, but you have been on many a anti-pvp rant regardless of what thread it is, doesn't matter who has posted or what they have posted, it has always resulted in you basically saying "Remove PvP and I'M happy". Dude, wake up and realise there is more people than just you playing this game, and realise not everyone is going to agree with your anti pvp comments. And while your at it, try to change your negative anti-pvp comments to constructive positive "what i'd like to see change in pvp to make it more fun to play" comments, rather than just the " removePVPremovePVPremovePVP " comments i tend to see from you...
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What people need to remember is that there are as many, if not more anti pvp comments made than i pwnz joo coz im a l33t pvp'er ones.
That dont help the state of the pvp game or encourage new people either.
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What people need to remember is that there are as many, if not more anti pvp comments made than i pwnz joo coz im a l33t pvp'er ones.
That dont help the state of the pvp game or encourage new people either.
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I think you're putting the cart before the horse, honestly. You get these comments because PvP is unpopular. PvP isn't unpopular because of these comments.
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A small minority of the PvP community, not all of the PvP community.
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A small, but very vocal minority. It seems to be the majority opinion of PvPers in this thread, for example.
L2P means "Learn to Play".
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And while your at it, try to change your negative anti-pvp comments to constructive positive "what i'd like to see change in pvp to make it more fun to play" comments
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You do realise that, for some people, no change to PvP is ever going to make it enjoyable?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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What people need to remember is that there are as many, if not more anti pvp comments made than i pwnz joo coz im a l33t pvp'er ones.
That dont help the state of the pvp game or encourage new people either.
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I think you're putting the cart before the horse, honestly. You get these comments because PvP is unpopular. PvP isn't unpopular because of these comments.
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Wrong. PvP isn't unpopular. Much the opposite infact. It's the indecent comments etc that come from the small minority that make it unappealing to you of the PvE community. Again, you tarnish something which unfortunately is associated with that small minority. And then you retort to small minority, but you inadvertently include ALL of the PvP community, and it has got to stop imo because it is not fair. 
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Not being funny Vox, but you have been on many a anti-pvp rant regardless of what thread it is, doesn't matter who has posted or what they have posted, it has always resulted in you basically saying "Remove PvP and I'M happy". Dude, wake up and realise there is more people than just you playing this game, and realise not everyone is going to agree with your anti pvp comments. And while your at it, try to change your negative anti-pvp comments to constructive positive "what i'd like to see change in pvp to make it more fun to play" comments, rather than just the " removePVPremovePVPremovePVP " comments i tend to see from you...
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No you haven't, you've seen one or two posts like that from me and the last comment I made on pvp before this was on your thread where you stated "no talk about removal of pvp please" where I posted it just to be contrary.
I mostly stay out of pvp threads because you guys have made it clear that you just don't want to know what non-pvpers have to say about it.
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
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You do realise that, for some people, no change to PvP is ever going to make it enjoyable?
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Yes, but that doesn't mean we have to endure the tiring negative comments though...
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You do realise that, for some people, no change to PvP is ever going to make it enjoyable?
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For me, it's a matter of "no realistic change to PvP will make it enjoyable for me." The changes that would be necessary before CoH's PvP would appeal to me (and, I do suspect, much of the playerbase) are so large and far-reaching that I don't see NCSoft investing the necessary time, work and money.
So, beyond pointing out what I consider to be wrong with the existing PvP for the sake of discussion, I'm not really interested in putting time and effort into coming up with solutions to those issues -- what would be the point?
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Yes, but that doesn't mean we have to endure the tiring negative comments though...
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Why not? We have to endure the equally tiresome "If you can't stand the heat" comments.
Come on. This is a thread in General Discussion named "Has PvP in CoH seriously faceplanted." If you want to avoid negative views of PvP (which it is perfectly okay to want to avoid), you probably shouldn't read it.
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Wrong. PvP isn't unpopular.
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Riiiiiight. Sure it isn't. The PvP zones are just teeming with life and laughter.
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I mostly stay out of pvp threads because you guys have made it clear that you just don't want to know what non-pvpers have to say about it.
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Allow me to disagree because we had threads in PvP forum where non PvPers participated and was very constructive regarding PvP and how it would be better.
And to be honest some people provoke a response from PvPers by calling pvp useless/something that should be removed/the cause of all nerfs/the reason enhancements were introduced and some are trigger happy enough to say remove it all together while i have never EVER seen a pvper posting remove RP,Alting,Badging and what not.Thats because majority of PvPers believers there is room for everyone and they would like some changes in a part of the game that has been left same for what 8 issues now?At least i speak for myself i never asked any part of the game to be trashed or removed in order for PvP to get a more prominent position.
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Wrong. PvP isn't unpopular.
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Riiiiiight. Sure it isn't. The PvP zones are just teeming with life and laughter.
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Try reading the full post rather than just first 3 words
I enjoy pvp and even though my troller isnt uber purpled i still go to SC. My pet peeve is the npc's everywhere that roam about. Getting killed in a zone shouldnt earn debt.
Also rewards for me besides having fun, badges is strength of wills that seems to fluctuate from 200k to 500k in the AH.
Would be nice if the pvp badges would form an accolade