PvP - Could it BE more imbalanced?
By
Aggravator,
Posted on: 2005-12-09 22:26 in Everything about PvP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you have an uber-PvP build, you won't be very good in PvE (storm defenders and controllers, SR scrappers).
[/ QUOTE ]
Since when has SR been uber in PvP???
[/ QUOTE ]
Silly Rabbit... SR is uber in everything.
[ QUOTE ]
But if a Stalker can't one shot something what can he do? All those old people wont be able to stop the second shot but us young whipper snappers will just turn round and splat the bugger.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I *guess* from looking at the stalker powers there might be some pretty useful tactics with the Ninjitsu set in particular. Even if all those smoke bombs etc. don't actually work like you'd hope I'd still take it and bind it to a key that says "Time for this bird to fly!"
Stalkers
Stalkers have two things goin for them. Invis and high damage. Remove 1 of these things and they suck. Invisibility is easily countered (clear mind, stacked tactics, lucks and so on).
The devs should think really hard before making damage changes.
SR Uber or not?
Well its the only scrapper type that has a chance against trollers in a 1on1 situation.
A Paragon Defender
[ QUOTE ]
Stalkers
Stalkers have two things goin for them. Invis and high damage. Remove 1 of these things and they suck. Invisibility is easily countered (clear mind, stacked tactics, lucks and so on).
The devs should think really hard before making damage changes.
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed, tonight while messing around in sirens call my stalker who has racked up well over 600 pvp points could not defeat an empath without hide (it was switched off we were running a fight club 
), Cat Girl kicked my [censored] good Anyone who says stalkers are overpowered is wrong, they are a hard build to play both in PVP and PVE. Controllers are by far and away more overpowered in PVP than any other alt, I can make this statement as when I dusted mine off he was insanely powerful in sirens, I think following a slow crushing death from my controller (or anyone elses) and the people who complain about stalkers would be praying for a nice quick AS to end the misery.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
I say give controllers an AS strike....also plz make hurricane to debuff defense as well..autohit a hold,end drain and give slow and -res.....i am not asking much!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Noone should be one-shotted
[/ QUOTE ]
This is something that we'd like to add for PvE and PvP - something along the lines that if a player is at 100% health, a single attack can only bring him down to 10% - or something along those lines.
[/ QUOTE ]
so... that would mean stalkers will have to become "gankers"... I mean let's face it, the only good use of a stalker is to one-shot kill an important though in a team (defender, healers ...etc...), Also bringing a controller to 10% would mean getting a more powerfull to maybe 60% assuming you get a good shot? :-/ at which point your stalker will most likely die on every attack :-/
The stalker in his abilities, reminds me a LOT of a ninja (kinda hard to deny it)... Ninja's are usually one-shot killing people :-/, and to be real, the assassin strike is described as "putting your sword thru your target's body"... heroes or not, I don't know many things that would either survive or even be able to move for quite a few weeks after something like that :-/ (yes I know it's just a game... But still... assassin strike was probably called assassin strike for one reason... it's a strike to kill :-/).. it seems extremelly logical to me that it one-shot kill people be it PVP or PVE...
Also, if doing an assassin strike on a NPC several level under you, do you ALSO expect it to bring it down to 90%? :-/, I honestly don't think this power should be nerfed, hell it can be hard enough to even LAUNCH the attack, I would actually suggest that this power can NOT miss, you're behind your target (not moving), he doesn't see you, and you somehow MANAGE to get the sword to miss? :-O, rather than touching the power itself, how about every toons get their perception boosted a bit in PVP? that would be easier to do, and fair on every player, as everyone with stealth/etc could potentially be discovered ...
If people think pvp is unbalanced, they should simply TRY to play a villain first... and see how HARD it actually is to land a one-shot kill... also, chances are the stalker will NOT be alone, a stalker landing an assasin strike, then a dominator launching a poison dart putting the target to sleep will give enough time to the stalker to land one of his 2 other powers (as assassin is usually coming as 5th ot 6th power i think, it is most likely that the stalker will have at least 2 other powers)... assuming the stalkers as placade also (does make sence to me)... here is the attack:
-1 assassin strike
-2 placade
-3 one of the other power (which can land a critical hit btw)...
result: no change... you're STILL dead, and it only takes an extra half a second or so...
add a dominator to the equation.......... the stalker might not even need to bother with the 2nd strike...(and you won't even be able to get a respite in time, if you have a defender around you - unlikely as we usually would go for the healers first, the timing would have to be fairly accurate for you to SURVIVE the dominator...)
Point is... changing the power won't really accomplish anything but wasting the devs time... and the people complaining will still die to my sword... *evil grin*
note to statesman: If the power get nerfed, you won't be welcomed to our scotland meeting! 
(unless coming with loads of goodies )
[ QUOTE ]
Also, if doing an assassin strike on a NPC several level under you, do you ALSO expect it to bring it down to 90%?
[/ QUOTE ]It has been stated multiple times by devs that the upcoming change will make sure PLAYERS won't get one shotted by anything, in PvP or PvE. Critters can still be one-shotted.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Noone should be one-shotted
[/ QUOTE ]
This is something that we'd like to add for PvE and PvP - something along the lines that if a player is at 100% health, a single attack can only bring him down to 10% - or something along those lines.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think its a good idea for PvE though, stalkers are in my humble opinion a bit underpowered in PvE. They really need to carry that hard punch. They will turn too much into scrappers with no defences if they dont have it.
[/ QUOTE ]
There was never talk of this applying to mobs. Hopefully, and by the indications given so far likely, it will apply for players in PvE. That is mobs can't one-shot you, buy you can one-shot them.
How much damage can a lvl 30 assasins strike do with one hit?
I ask becuase when I was bouncing around the zone the other day taking out a few masterminds I got one shot AS'd by a stalker right outside the hospital. Now @ lvl 30 I have aprox 900 hit points. Even with a few reds and a soul drain I can only pump out 500 odd dmg in one power.
I'm not moaning about it, it adds to the spice. The only time it was anoying was when I got AS'd for the 3rd time just as I came out of the hospital.
[ QUOTE ]
[...] Controllers are by far and away more overpowered in PVP than any other alt [...]
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree... about two holds and I'm held through Unyielding. Yay.
Well I haven't even READ the inordinate number of posts in this thread, since we had this discussion on the boards in beta as well...but in answer to the initial comment:
Stalkers are a pain in PvP, which is why many villain players like them. However, there _are_ ways round them: I know that people have already mentioned the goggles thing (and they do help, I know from experience of chasing one around as my tank). Also, Assassin Strike has about a 3 second activation, during which the stalker is (apparently) visible and can be hit. Which also interrupts the attack
Another alternative that works, although it's not much fun for the person involves, is to have someone watch your back. Especially if they are invisible With goggles on, they wait until the stalker appears behind the squishy (ie you), then jump on him. Quicksand is a very useful power for tying the stalker down while you beat him to a pulp...
Most stalkers will give up and go home after two or three deaths on the trot
Good luck with it, and if you need a hand then invite @Doc to your global friends list and ask me to come on as Doctor Vulcan. I like to stomp squishy stalkers for a living...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[...] Controllers are by far and away more overpowered in PVP than any other alt [...]
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree... about two holds and I'm held through Unyielding. Yay.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've had plenty of problems with trollers (or ice blast types) cos I play squishies for the most part, but man, that officially sucks! Real shame that inspirations are the only way to deal with them, and even then they can just slap some sort of debuff(s) on you can pretty much take you out of the fight.
Nerf trollers!
IN MEMORIUM OF GAYBABY
CRUELY TAKEN FROM THIS WORLD WHILE SO YOUNG
[ QUOTE ]
Realistically and logically ARE they overpowerd or is it more likly some others are just underpowerd or should i say over comfortable with their non=PvP builds?
[/ QUOTE ]
I personally don't think it's a matter of over/under powered. I think that many people just don't like the playstyle of the stalker (no offense to the players). I think people don't like being beaten in a manner that doesn't allow them to put up any kind of fight.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
[ QUOTE ]
pre I5 I thought my regen scrapper was overpowered
[/ QUOTE ]
Pre I5 regen scrappers WERE overpowered. Didn't stop a lot of people complaining about the nerf.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
[ QUOTE ]
Nerf trollers!
[/ QUOTE ]
OI!!! where is the christmas spirit!!! love the trollers!!!
You sir are uh...dunno the word....you touch the trollers and all kittens die!!!!
I would like them to up stalkers deff if they take away one shot kills as we will need it if we are gonna have to stand and fight. 
[ QUOTE ]
I personally don't think it's a matter of over/under powered. I think that many people just don't like the playstyle of the stalker (no offense to the players). I think people don't like being beaten in a manner that doesn't allow them to put up any kind of fight.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. I think the point is not whether stalkers are good/bad/overpowered in PvP; the point is whether they reduce the fun of other AT-players. And this is kinda hard to dispute.
Besides, Im not sure if the devs have blatantly stated the oneshotting will be removed - "its being worked on" is more accurate statement imo. States said in this thread a moment ago "this is something we'd like to have" (removing oneshotting).
[ QUOTE ]
I would like them to up stalkers deff if they take away one shot kills as we will need it if we are gonna have to stand and fight.
[/ QUOTE ]
They could boost some other aspect of stalkers in the process..
Poor stalkers, just 'cause a few players don't see 'em coming or know how to deal with it or get the really Annoying stalkers that constantly kill them just 'cause they can, now everyone wants the poor squishy dears to be nerfed. Well fine, I say that if you nerf the stalkers any more then you should up the amount + damage of crits they get when someone is held and then I daresay stalkers come and find me and let's see them scream for another nerf! 
If you don't want a stalker to splat you or you want to see them coming go and buy some IR goggles! There problem solved. 
Now leave my squishy friends alone! (at least when I'm playing a villian)
On the Hero side! NERF THE STALKERS! how can they just pop around without me seeing them and then thwack me twice and i go down like a wet rag! It's not fair. Waily Waily, Rant Rant (anyone noticed I'm so bored with this?), Yacka Yacka, Scream, etc. etc. Expletives and all that.
I have been swatted more than merry a time by stalkers and quite frankly, I find it funny. I know that I can buy IR's and then i'll see them, but I don't.
Quite frankly, in my honest opinion, leave the poor buggers alone and if your going to complain about them, expect your AT to get nerfed not long after along with all the other AT's 'cause then we'll ALL be too overpowered over the stalkers.
Their whole point is:
INVIS - AS
That's it, they don't have any more options than that really. That's what they do, just that. Nada much more.
I only played one for a few lvl's in Beta, so please if I'm wrong let me know. 
I say go buy some IR's and stop gabbing and yacking over the stalkers and go and splat the poor squishies in PVP on Wednesday.
[ QUOTE ]
Besides, Im not sure if the devs have blatantly stated the oneshotting will be removed - "its being worked on" is more accurate statement imo. States said in this thread a moment ago "this is something we'd like to have" (removing oneshotting).
[/ QUOTE ]It's been said on the US forums that is WILL happen, it's just a question of time.
[ QUOTE ]
If you don't want a stalker to splat you or you want to see them coming go and buy some IR goggles! There problem solved.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lets go through this again.
IR goggles aren't always available. Temp power availability is base on who controls the zone.
Secondly, a PvP stalker will have some stealth powers as well which IR goggles won't see through on their own.
So much for your solution.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
Dont IR goggles only show invisible enemies when they are moving? ie. stand still and ur invis again.
They also cost a small fortune. :S
I agree with the earlier point that was made, the issue isnt so much about stalkers being over powered, more that they arent fun to play against. (Edit: unless you build a specific character to hunt/kill stalkers, an anti stalker i guess, that would be fun. I might try that).
An earleir poster (Doc_?) said stalkers are visible 3 seconds during an AS (presumably before it strikes). Cant say i've noticed this, think i'll check this out today.
ps. those police drones is sirens are about as much use as a chocolate T-pot. (Hmmm T-pot!!)
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
[ QUOTE ]
ps. those police drones is sirens are about as much use as a chocolate T-pot. (Hmmm T-pot!!)
[/ QUOTE ]
They oneshot any enemy that gets in range. Thats fairly useful...
I've never seen them work the 2 times i was attacked near them.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
I thought that the Drnes could see through Invis etc. But I've been done a couple of times whilst outside the hospital. That has two drones outside and two outside the gate. They only got the stalker after he'd given me a steel infusion.
Maybe I got it wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think its a good idea for PvE though, stalkers are in my humble opinion a bit underpowered in PvE. They really need to carry that hard punch. They will turn too much into scrappers with no defences if they dont have it.
[/ QUOTE ]
He didn't say he'd stop Stalkers from one shotting things, only that players couldn't be one shotted.
But if a Stalker can't one shot something what can he do? All those old people wont be able to stop the second shot but us young whipper snappers will just turn round and splat the bugger.
World of Jackcraft.