PvP - Could it BE more imbalanced?
By
Aggravator,
Posted on: 2005-12-09 22:26 in Everything about PvP
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ps. those police drones is sirens are about as much use as a chocolate T-pot. (Hmmm T-pot!!)
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They oneshot any enemy that gets in range. Thats fairly useful...
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They're fairly useless if you stand by the contact vendor.
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I thought that the Drnes could see through Invis etc. But I've been done a couple of times whilst outside the hospital. That has two drones outside and two outside the gate. They only got the stalker after he'd given me a steel infusion.
Maybe I got it wrong.
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Enough stacked Stealth powers break the games Perception mechanics: Stalkers with enough Gran Invis's put on them are undetectable to anything, unless thats been fixed recently.
The problem with Stalkers is they are over specialised. They do one thing really well - Assasins Strike. Take that away and what have you got left? An underpowered scrapper.
Masterminds and Stalkers should be appreciated for bringing some new ideas and diversification to the game which IMHO has been a long time overdue.
I do apologize, as I'd said before, I've never used IR goggles myself.
Haven't ever really been bothered about getting AS'd by stalkers, I know they can't do much of anything else and if it makes them feel better they can stab their steel into my back.
Unless i've got my bubbles on, then they usually end up running as I don't go down as quick and the blasters start shooting. 
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The problem with Stalkers is they are over specialised. They do one thing really well - Assasins Strike. Take that away and what have you got left? An underpowered scrapper.
Masterminds and Stalkers should be appreciated for bringing some new ideas and diversification to the game which IMHO has been a long time overdue.
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I agree entirely, they do one thing well and the rest not so good as anything else and there isnt anything wrong with that. Seems to me people are moaning about them as they are new and dont know how to interact with them dynamically, most people seem to think they are overpowered scrappers as opposed to a stealthy squishy.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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I agree entirely, they do one thing well and the rest not so good as anything else and there isnt anything wrong with that. Seems to me people are moaning about them as they are new and dont know how to interact with them dynamically, most people seem to think they are overpowered scrappers as opposed to a stealthy squishy.
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I disagree. Ppl see the one shot and death and wonder, while they get a good look at the ground, "Why was that fun?"
I've been thinking about it and I've come to a conclusion, stalkers should be renamed "n00b hunters". Based on everything I've read and experienced it's the more inexperienced PvPer who form the staple diet of the stalker. Which is unfortunate, as someone's early experiences of PvP should not be a faceplant from an unseen foe, not if PvP is to gain popularity.
All just my opinion.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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I agree entirely, they do one thing well and the rest not so good as anything else and there isnt anything wrong with that. Seems to me people are moaning about them as they are new and dont know how to interact with them dynamically, most people seem to think they are overpowered scrappers as opposed to a stealthy squishy.
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I disagree. Ppl see the one shot and death and wonder, while they get a good look at the ground, "Why was that fun?"
I've been thinking about it and I've come to a conclusion, stalkers should be renamed "n00b hunters". Based on everything I've read and experienced it's the more inexperienced PvPer who form the staple diet of the stalker. Which is unfortunate, as someone's early experiences of PvP should not be a faceplant from an unseen foe, not if PvP is to gain popularity.
All just my opinion.
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I try to talk to each every person who comes into Sirens call and have had the pleasure of one of my AS, I go to great lengths to get villain chat turned on and talk things through with them advising as and where nessesary, I do all that I can to make PVP in defiant Sirens Call inclusive to all. As a result there is usually a nice friendly enviroment there and everyone has fun be they a "n00b" or not. Of course you get the imbeciles but in my experience these are generally from scrappers (in my personal experience) who think they should be kings of pvp and get annoyed when they die, send insulting and derogatory tells to people withour even having their own villain chat activated. If people start to be nasty and insulting on tells and broadcast they really shouldnt expect anything but a faceplanting.
On defiant, in Sirens Call, none of the regular stalkers will "n00b" hunt, we all chat, take a few kills and leave them alone while we rotate through the ranks, indeed there are many very experienced PVP players who can testify I go to great lengths to get them as opposed to a easy kill.
I feel such generalisations as renaming an AT, indeed any AT something as inherantly insulting as "n00b hunters" is insulting and unwaranted and such thoughts will do nothing to increase your pleasure in PVP. Perhaps everyne should try to relax, communicate and try to go into PVP zones expecting to die but to have some fun with the generally nice people in the zones.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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Ppl see the one shot and death and wonder, while they get a good look at the ground, "Why was that fun?"
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And if a game isnt fun people wont play it.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
One comment I heard in Siren's the other day was 'I'm leaving, the learning curve is a bit high'
Though lowering the difficulty rating of a PvP zone so it was fun to new players would make it not fun for experienced players.
Wouldn't want to be the one to try and come up with a way to meet the needs of both.
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indeed there are many very experienced PVP players who can testify I go to great lengths to get them as opposed to a easy kill.
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I can personally vouch for that seeing as I'm on the 'hit list'. When I know Stalkobot is in the zone I am more nervous and alert, I get a lot of pleasure from that (perversed I know), but I feel its a great learning experience for me personally which is going to contribute a great deal for when I do my next respect.
As to the original post which was aimed at Defenders not being equal to other ATs. Thats not our role to stand toe to toe with a tank/scrapper etc. We buff/debuff, we hand advantage to our side, sometimes at the cost of our own lives. We make other players go from hard to damn right nearly impossible to kill. Defenders always play a support role within a team (as our Acc & Dam generally sucks anyways), no other AT provides a greater percentage buffs/debuffs like us. Defenders are dangerous when used by ppl who understand how to use them.
I seriously think its wrong to take away Stalkers 1 shot kill ability, and I'm personally against it. I hope Statesman's post is not a kneejerk reaction to comments from ppl who feel they are being left behind within PvP itself.
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I agree entirely, they do one thing well and the rest not so good as anything else and there isnt anything wrong with that. Seems to me people are moaning about them as they are new and dont know how to interact with them dynamically, most people seem to think they are overpowered scrappers as opposed to a stealthy squishy.
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I disagree. Ppl see the one shot and death and wonder, while they get a good look at the ground, "Why was that fun?"
I've been thinking about it and I've come to a conclusion, stalkers should be renamed "n00b hunters". Based on everything I've read and experienced it's the more inexperienced PvPer who form the staple diet of the stalker. Which is unfortunate, as someone's early experiences of PvP should not be a faceplant from an unseen foe, not if PvP is to gain popularity.
All just my opinion.
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Yet you would be quite happy if the enjoyment that the stalkers can have from being stalkers was removed?
Maybe rethink the PvP zones a bit such that you have say, sirens call 1 & 2. 1 being the newbie zone and 2 the expert, so there are multiple copies of the pvp zones (in the same way there appears to be, IMO, multiple copies of the PvE zones). You can only get into the lower zones if your reputation is fairly low or non existent. Anyone of the correct lvl can get into the higher zones (there is no reputation limit involved), so they can still play with there friends, even if its going to be a bit harder for them. That way, the top PvP'ers are grouped into the hardest version of the zone and the less experienced, or casual PvP'er in the easier zone.
Might work, this would be, but prolly not until the zones become more popular. (so get out and start killing).
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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Simple I would guess something along the line of
If target X has been hit with Damaged Caped at Y then timer A starts any further attacks will Miss until the timer runs out!
So I would expect to see an AS strike with loads of reds capped to leave a small amount of health similar to dropping from a large height were its impossible to die and then give say 4 or 5 seconds of allowed response time to pop a green or run etc before the clock stops and Target X can be hit again.
Again with some team work it would be possible to get the target but would allow the target a small response time!
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I've got to ask how making up a lot of nonsense like that can be a reply to what i said. What you've written is fantasy and will stay that way, there is no way that they will nerf stalkers to be unable to fire off any more attacks for a set time after AS.
Methinks you've been at the loopy juice.
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If you care to glance at the first line you will note the line using the words
I would guess etc etc
This was in reply to your earlier question/statement saying
As i've said before that won't change things, u'll still be killed within seconds.
The statement about cough making up a load of nonsense regarding
If target X has been hit with Damaged Caped at Y then timer A starts any further attacks will Miss until the timer runs out!
Is a simple true/false statement depending on how you look at it 
And is kind of in a very simple way programs can and do make decisions on outcomes depending on predetermined decisions!
It was not meant to imply that this is what will happen or should happen but a way of explaining on how the problem could be managed, depending on the timer you could still queue attacks and some will miss but in the very small window of opportunity the attacked has a small, and I stress small chance of responding! I personally would find that chance to respond to an attack very appealing on all alts not just on an AS strike from a stalker!
And no i tend to drink water when playing loopy juice I leave for others to enjoy
Oh and P.S
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Noone should be one-shotted
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This is something that we'd like to add for PvE and PvP - something along the lines that if a player is at 100% health, a single attack can only bring him down to 10% - or something along those lines.
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A "cough" damage cap it would seem
Starts to polish finger nails
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I agree entirely, they do one thing well and the rest not so good as anything else and there isnt anything wrong with that. Seems to me people are moaning about them as they are new and dont know how to interact with them dynamically, most people seem to think they are overpowered scrappers as opposed to a stealthy squishy.
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I disagree. Ppl see the one shot and death and wonder, while they get a good look at the ground, "Why was that fun?"
I've been thinking about it and I've come to a conclusion, stalkers should be renamed "n00b hunters". Based on everything I've read and experienced it's the more inexperienced PvPer who form the staple diet of the stalker. Which is unfortunate, as someone's early experiences of PvP should not be a faceplant from an unseen foe, not if PvP is to gain popularity.
All just my opinion.
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Oh... OK. But a blaster can 2 shot me from quite far away with 2 damage abilities one after the other and he's not a "n00b hunter"? Right...
PS. No, I'm not a stalker.
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Realistically and logically ARE they overpowerd or is it more likly some others are just underpowerd or should i say over comfortable with their non=PvP builds?
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I personally don't think it's a matter of over/under powered. I think that many people just don't like the playstyle of the stalker (no offense to the players). I think people don't like being beaten in a manner that doesn't allow them to put up any kind of fight.
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That's no doubt true but there is no other way for a stalker to play. They can't stand toe to toe with any other sort of melee type character, they can't cope with ranged attacks. I saw them described earlier in this thread as one trick ponies, that just about sums them up nicely.
I had the opportunity to team with another stalker for a bit of PvE yesterday. Was great fun but still groups of 4 mobs + make things very difficult even with the low level AI. Against other people in PvP I can see how playing a stalker just isn't this easy lame thing that some are complaining about. In fact if people are teamed, attacking one of them is going to be extremely dangerous for a stalker with no defence against his angry teammates
I would seriously suggest that everyone should create a stalker and try playing one for a while. They are very limited in options. Creeping up and striking unseen is all they can do. Nerf that and you have an instant unusable AT.
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Yet you would be quite happy if the enjoyment that the stalkers can have from being stalkers was removed?
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Would I? Where did I say that, exactly?
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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Oh... OK. But a blaster can 2 shot me from quite far away with 2 damage abilities one after the other and he's not a "n00b hunter"? Right...
PS. No, I'm not a stalker.
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The difference being, I would imagine, is you can *usually* see a blaster coming. Or, to put it another way, they're not ALWAYS invisible and don't neet a fairly elaborate amount of prep work or particular powerset to defeat. I imagine that's why ppl aren't complaining about them.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
Talking in general -
Personally I don't think stalkers are broken, but I still think we should remove the one-shot ability. Just amp up their survivability a notch so that they can have a fight even after they've As'ed and didnt kill opponent outright. (I have to admit I'm not sure what exactly is their survivability these days.)
It can't be that bad though.. Yesterday I was in Sirens call in TG's group (thanks for that, Tainted btw) and this one stalker taunted us by standing next to us while his "PVP on"-meter counted down. When it ran out, the stalker just vanished in front of our noses and we couldnt do anything about it.. That is so totally cool. 
Imo stalkers are a cool concept and I like having them in the game.
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That's no doubt true but there is no other way for a stalker to play. They can't stand toe to toe with any other sort of melee type character, they can't cope with ranged attacks. I saw them described earlier in this thread as one trick ponies, that just about sums them up nicely.
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It wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that Stalkers outnumber all the other villain ATs in SC at the moment.
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
Well since this is complaining about imbalances, then why don't they up the damage output for Defenders that go there?
I mean everyones complaining that the Stalkers can one shot (although they've always had to 2 shot me) and that Blasters can 2 shot you.
What about us little defenders, i'd have to 30 shot you to even hope for a kill and that's if your regeneration doesn't outshine my damage (which it most likely will).
I've never had a kill in PVP, mostly because I don't kill steal and on the other side, 'cause I just can't output enough damage as my defender to even hope for it.
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The difference being, I would imagine, is you can *usually* see a blaster coming. Or, to put it another way, they're not ALWAYS invisible and don't neet a fairly elaborate amount of prep work or particular powerset to defeat. I imagine that's why ppl aren't complaining about them.
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You imagine too much and basing what you say to assumptions. Thats not any kind of reason to state any sort of imbalance regarding stalkers. You cannot claim unbalance based on what is in your imagination. You also imagined that if a Greek is a landlord in the UK English is his 1st language. Thats a wild imagination you got there. Now i suggest open your eyes and read a few of the posts out there that make some reason and present some raw facts.
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I've been thinking about it and I've come to a conclusion, stalkers should be renamed "n00b hunters".
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Do you have any clue what you talking about? First of all any kind of stalker that is a new relatively player uppon entering the PvP zone becomes cannon fodder. Why? simply because very few heros go around the PvP zones unteamed. Simply because most experienced players hang around pvp zones and are there to help. A new stalker that not have the proper pvp knowledge becomes a total target. True they will get a few kills but the amount of times they will die is truly too much. And the more experienced stalkers will certainly try to go for a variety of targets. Unless they are total morons but then again i have not met any one that is like this.
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It wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that Stalkers outnumber all the other villain ATs in SC at the moment.
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Do you know that during peak times the highest in numbers AT in Sirens are the brutes?And the stalkers come second? Also do you know that the highest in numbers AT right now in CoV are the MAsterminds?Just a few observations and not things we imagine.
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a PvP stalker will have some stealth powers as well which IR goggles won't see through on their own.
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1)use yellow insps
2)use the leadership power pool
3)use empaths clear mind
4)use pbaoe to locate them
5)use the bounty feature
And also here is some raw facts just so you know that there are also differences regarding perception between AT's which u seem to ignore
IR Goggles give a straight 15% bonus to perception range, 50% of the time (checked every 10 seconds.)
Tactics gives a base 20% bonus, modified by your AT Type and your level. Assuming level 35, that gives you perception of ~775 ft. If you were a Defender, the value would be ~930 ft. A level 35 Stalker with Hide and Stealth has a Stealth radius of ~900 ft. That means a Defender could see the Stalker at ~30ft while the Scrapper cannot see them.
(NOTE)The above numbers assume the Scrapper and Defender are the power users. If the Defender has the Tactics, then both use the Defender value, while if the Scrapper has the Tactics, both use the Scrapper value.
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As to the original post which was aimed at Defenders not being equal to other ATs. Thats not our role to stand toe to toe with a tank/scrapper etc. We buff/debuff, we hand advantage to our side, sometimes at the cost of our own lives. We make other players go from hard to damn right nearly impossible to kill. Defenders always play a support role within a team (as our Acc & Dam generally sucks anyways), no other AT provides a greater percentage buffs/debuffs like us. Defenders are dangerous when used by ppl who understand how to use them.
I seriously think its wrong to take away Stalkers 1 shot kill ability, and I'm personally against it. I hope Statesman's post is not a kneejerk reaction to comments from ppl who feel they are being left behind within PvP itself.
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Totally agreed
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It wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that Stalkers outnumber all the other villain ATs in SC at the moment.
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Expect this to be permanent. The stalker is basically the only villain AT suitable for PvP.
Brute - No time to build rage
Corruptor - A fancy name for a defender
Dominator - A controller, only less
Mastermind - No punchevoke on pets
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You also imagined that if a Greek is a landlord in the UK English is his 1st language.
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That's actually a fact, unless you're calling him a liar 
Please stop trying QUITE to hard to get one over on me. You'll strain yourself.
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I've been thinking about it and I've come to a conclusion, stalkers should be renamed "n00b hunters".
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Do you have any clue what you talking about?
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Yes.
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Do you know that during peak times the highest in numbers AT in Sirens are the brutes?And the stalkers come second?
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Ah, the fabled *peak* time. Despite being on at numerous different times I've yet to see anything remotely resembling a *peak*, a small hillock (and that's being generous) perhaps. My point had nothing to do with *peak* times, but o/all. Go into Siren's at any time and if there's a villain there there's a good chance its a stalker.
Actually looking back over the past couple of weeks I can't remember a point when there WASN'T a stalker on.
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Also do you know that the highest in numbers AT right now in CoV are the MAsterminds?Just a few observations and not things we imagine.
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Who gives a monkeys what the most represented AT in CoV is? It has nothing to do with this topic.
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a PvP stalker will have some stealth powers as well which IR goggles won't see through on their own.
1)use yellow insps
2)use the leadership power pool
3)use empaths clear mind
4)use pbaoe to locate them
5)use the bounty feature
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It's like talking to children!
For the hard of understanding, one more time.
1. If you don't know he's there when to do down the yellow insp. You can't keep them running indefinitely.
2. Not everyone wants to respec for casual PvPing.
3. There's not alwats a defender with clear mind on.
4. Not everyone has AoEs
5. And if the stalker's not the bounty target?
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And also here is some raw facts just so you know that there are also differences regarding perception between AT's which u seem to ignore
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I know you work with a PvP tuned character and sit safe behind your hurricane, and maybe have some ppl you regularly pvP with, but many ppl don't and maybe you don't fully appreciate that.
The point is that its not uncommon for every one of your stalker-countermeasures to be either impossible or impractical, or even unreasonable (telling people to go respec is just silly).
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
Germaine to this discussion: there is a suggestion on, oddly enough, the suggestions thread linky that suggests removing ID and power details from all players in PVP zones (possibly excepting your own team).
Result: you can't tell who in a team is the squishy unless you watch them for a while (gives stalkers something to do and chance to make a mistake (eg attempt to AS the tank)) but perhaps more importantly makes villain types better for pvp (especially masterminds - it wouldn't be immediately obvious which person you should nail to make half the opposition fall over). Please wander over, read and comment there.
I got done standing right next to one of the drones
Thought it would be a safe place to recover endurance.
I'm pretty sure i saw the guy leaping away to safety while i crumpled face down as well.
Edit: drones increase perception yeah? I guess that wouldnt be increased high enough to be useful then.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464