PvP - Could it BE more imbalanced?
By
Aggravator,
Posted on: 2005-12-09 22:26 in Everything about PvP
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Hmm I have not played COV yet, as I awaiting a new computer first so I cannot really comment on if stalkers are overpowered (I dont think they are from my experiences in pvp) , but if they are anything like scrappers then they are damned scary...
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I have no idea how my stalker will fare in PvP with me at the keyboard. Not too great probably but she's certainly no scrapper. She relies on that first strike hitting. If it fails, which it does with monotonous regularity, it's a toss up between standing and fighting and running for her life. To me, accuracy seems very very poor on this AT, even with a green accuracy enhancement in each attack I'm missing more than 50% of the time on even level minions. Presumably this will improve with DO's/TO's but even so, that first strike missing can be a disaster.
That first strike is the only really damaging attack she has, the others are only really suitable for finishing off an opponent seriously weakened by the initial strike.
PvE is a bit of a pain to be honest. It's fun but she really shines against single targets and there are very few of those around. Mobs tend to go around in groups. I've had to change tactics to keep levelling so with my *very* limited PvP experience and what I've learned about the AT in PvE I'd say if you're a bit squishy the chances are you'll need to team with others to survive in a PvP zone. I'm not sure that the AT is overpowered, it's just different to what people are used to.
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Ok... Idea:
Make blasters snipe power have a 1 hit kill option??
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ye ok good idea if it works the same way as stalkers in other words you need to line up the target in stelth mode then hit it without being seen if you are seen its interupted and you need to run l;ike stalkers
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Terrible idea, if the only thing that makes Stalkers hard is the fact they have to close to Melee range making PBAoEs useful knocking them out of hide, +perception doesn't work at the range of an unslotted Snipe. Meaning a Blaster would be able to one or two shot any squishy regardless of any defenses. And I would expect a high level energy blaster to be able to take a tank down with impunity. Build Up - Aim - Snipe (toggle drop) dead tank.
I had the same "issue" (ie: stalker one shoting my controller).
I thought it was higly unfair and anti-game like...
So, I took extreme measures...
I bought COV, and created a stalker... to see why they were ONLY doing this...
Well ladies and gents, buckle your seat belts... some stalkers are litterally DESIGNED to do this... and pretty much nothing else... *period* ...
Basically, that stalker of mine is only able to afflict proper damages while "hidding" ... and the fact he goes back into hidding is actually a power itself (that last about 30 seconds or so) in case he "misses...etc..).. as for stalkers not being able to take any damages, this is not true... my stalker is pretty much acting as a tanker in most of our missions, as he's secondary power pool is regeneration... I can heal myself, and boost my hp for several minutes... (not trying to show off.. just explaining 
)...
Basically, all my stalker does is "try" to one kill one guy, take as many shot as it can while the rest of the team pick a target... and then use placade and do another 1 kill shot while in combat...
I am not ready for pvp yet, but when I am, I'm more than willing to have a 1 on 1 with someone if they wish to study the stalker and how they work/attack (and how to take them down)... I ALREADY know how to take a stalker down, but I don't want to spoil your fun...
I honestly DID think PVP was unbalanced before, but playing villains (brute and stalkers being the ones that annoyed me most), and I honestly think, if you get in a good team for pvp, you can EASILY take the villains out.
I had a very nice experience with a team of 4, and we litterally beat the living hell out of a team of 6 villains... and I am only a controller, so pretty much the weakest AT in COH on hp/defence... I only died twice over 2.5 hours 
Read the whole of this thread and thought before that stalkers should not be able to one shot in pvp, and am gald they are changing it so that you can't. Saying that people really could help themselves more. It amazes me how many people I fight just stand there after I have AS-ed them, as if somehow my next move will not be Placate and use my next best attack for a critial. A lot of people also stand still for a lot longer than they think, they may think they are moving about a lot but when you are watching as a stalker you realise just how little a lot of people move when they pvp. Many also seem to think that because they are in a group with other heros nearby that they are relativly safe from a AS..not true, unless there is a keen eyed kinetics peep or everyone is within some aura, I will chance it. Keeping on the move also does not mean simply running around a little within a 15 metre mental box or running around in a circle as it is quite easy to still time AS to hit someone doing this. It also amazes me how many people still have their 'typing' box above their head when they are in pvp, this, a lot of the time is like waving a red flag to a stalker. It's probably not a good idea to start a fight with npc's when you know there is a stalker about too, as I saw some doing last night. (And I'm not talking about battles).
The Smoking Demon
Ash/Tar Corruptor
Union
@The Smoking Demon
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yeah whirlwind allows that as well,although i not know about the snipe since its an interruptible power.
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If you can snipe while whirlwinding THAT is something I'd like to see ROFL. The anatomical implications are already busting my gut. LOL
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When I play my stalker I do not think he is overpowered by any stretch of the imagination and yet i fully feel my controller is overpowered. I was standing in the middle of 2 brutes and a load of ninja hencemen with holds and debuffs flowing and it was painful to watch, there is no way I should have been able to do that in my opinion. So my stalker take out a sole player, big deal, controllers can tear an opposing team to shreds.
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The difference being, I think, is that ppl see you coming and can, if they choose, get out of the way.
I believe that every AT should have a chance against every other AT, even if that chance is nothing more than to get away.
Stalkers, I feel, are picked on for two reasons. The first being the massive amount of damage they do in a single hit - 80%+ of a scrappers HPs in a single blow is A LOT and they can do it to many toons seemingly out of nowhere.
When you can't see it coming it's very difficult. And for many this isn't fun, and a game's primary function is to be FUN
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
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Well stalkers ARE supposed to 1 hit kill... it's pretty much the ONLY thing they CAN be used for... removing it make them pretty much useless.. :-/
Edit - Also, if you want to solo on missions, the 1 hit kill IS a must for minions, and at LEAST 75% of a lieutenant of your level, otherwise you ARE dead...It's how I see it anyway...
Hello Goldenangel I believe that the Devs have already said that 1 shot AS was not intended and is being Looked at so I would expect a tweak in that area sooner rather than latter so enjoy while you can I guess 
As i've said before that won't change things, u'll still be killed within seconds. AS with a high damage attack queued up leaves blasters on the floor so i dont see that it'll be any different with defenders/trollers/warshades/peacebringers once the nerf comes ito play .
And you just know that complainers about AS are then going to complain it hasnt been nerfed enough....
Taking the one-shot out of AS will just mean I'll change my tactics from one-shotting to using AS, tping away and then impaling them instead.
Simple I would guess something along the line of
If target X has been hit with Damaged Caped at Y then timer A starts any further attacks will Miss until the timer runs out!
So I would expect to see an AS strike with loads of reds capped to leave a small amount of health similar to dropping from a large height were its impossible to die and then give say 4 or 5 seconds of allowed response time to pop a green or run etc before the clock stops and Target X can be hit again.
Again with some team work it would be possible to get the target but would allow the target a small response time!
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If target X has been hit with Damaged Caped at Y then timer A starts any further attacks will Miss until the timer runs out!
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That would be awful. Stalkers are dead in SECONDS after they AS. If you take the one shotting out, they should at least be able to follow up with another attack rather than being forced to just run away instead.
I cant believe this crap is still going - its the same regurgetated nonsence over and over! Stalkers excist - get over it!
Yeah they will have AS nerfed but sorry to say ppl do you REALLY think that after spending ALL that time making an AT they are gonna destroy it just coz some cant handle it? Aye right
The very name stalker implies excactly what they do - stalk their prey! In this case heroes who arent built for PvP, or dont understand it, some dont know how to use their own powers (laughable but oh sooo true), some just cant handle the thought of actually being defeated OMG a death in PvP - its getting had to think of a nice way to put it anymore - STOP MOANING! Learn to play your toon - PvP is NOT PVE whats good for one isnt always good in the other - respec if you can - ask advise as pointed out on numerous occasions regular PvP'ers from both sides will talk to you re; their build and how they beat you IF you ask instread of becoming abusive or whiny - its really simple.
Its a tough love situation getting - If you cant handle being killed stay out of PvP - I nor PvP'ers make it that way the Devs DID! Stalkers are not the Devil incarnate for goodness sake - have you all read the blub on stalkers? Ooo another idea also read teh blurb on powers when your taking them wheter at an even lvl or if respec'ting for PvP - it will help!
I really do find this 'stalkers are soo bad' line is gettin over worked and somewhat tedious TBH.
Maybe they shouldnt be able to one shot and that is getting looked at but if you take away AS then you may as well take away Stalkers an that is a total shame as why should a whole AT and ppl's game be nerfed due to some who just cant get around them? The are NOT immortal and they DO die - some of them quite regularly. Its NOT that hard to understand now is it? i'd like to think there are some other intelligent people out there. Its beyond a joke - some were happy when the vilains were still low and the heroes ruled and occasionally ganked their way across PvP zones. Hmm shoe and other foot??
I'm really starting to think the Pro'stalker party need to make up a standard reply to this kinda gumph and cut and paste it each time as we are all saying the same things in responce to the saem nonsence each time
Why do some people think that every 2-bit build should be able to cope with every situation and every AT in PvP?
You can't do a lousey PvP build and expect it to work.
IMHO, most builds need invis and one +perception power to be decent at PvP. Fly is also a boon in many cases and TP.
Not saying thats perfect, but those powers will allow you to cope with many situations.
@Sweet Chilli
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Why do some people think that every 2-bit build should be able to cope with every situation and every AT in PvP?
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Because the game at no point tells them that they need +Perception in PvP, or to keep moving to avoid Assassin Strikes. These are things you quickly discover after repeatedly being oneshotted, and that puts people off of PvP.
On the other foot, I don't think I have a very PVP build for my defender, nor really my Dominator, but it's not really a PVE build either, it's just what I went for when I wanted/could get it. I'm not one to go planning out a character all the way to the end. I like picking things up that I want as I go along.
Gimp myself? Maybe. Couldn't be bothered.
I do the same thing with Pen & Paper, I pick things up as I go along.
But anyway, PVP unbalanced? I'm not entirely sure.
I mean, maybe, but I'm not a number crucher or any of those other things.
I like PVP as it is. I can't say as I've ever splatted someone, but I've had a lot of fun getting splatted & besides maybe someday I'll build myself a pure PVP character. 
But if you ask me, especially on the people complaining about Stalkers, I have to agree, So Blooomin what that they AS you, that IS what they do.
It's just people that can't handle loosing a bit, specially if it's unexpected.
It's what a stalker can do, if they were running around and everyone could see them then they'd be a pointless AT.
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Stalkers cope better with little than the other ATs do. There may well be other factors to take into account too, such as: Stalkers can PvP well without a team, other ATs may not - the lack of people in the zone may persuade other ATs entering them to leave if they cannot team, where the same compulsion is not found in players with Stalker ATs.
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Therefor, according to your theory, the more time passes the more the ratio will shift away from stalkers. OK, we'll see.
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If you're going to attempt to be patronising, you may want to actually have a point first.
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I bow to your superior patronising capabilities. Based on your recent postings, you get a lot more practice than I do.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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Absolutely right, and what a fab idea! And now you mention it, is there anyone here that plays as a stalker and that think they're overpowered?
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How many ppl ever think their AT is overpowered?
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(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
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Simple I would guess something along the line of
If target X has been hit with Damaged Caped at Y then timer A starts any further attacks will Miss until the timer runs out!
So I would expect to see an AS strike with loads of reds capped to leave a small amount of health similar to dropping from a large height were its impossible to die and then give say 4 or 5 seconds of allowed response time to pop a green or run etc before the clock stops and Target X can be hit again.
Again with some team work it would be possible to get the target but would allow the target a small response time!
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I've got to ask how making up a lot of nonsense like that can be a reply to what i said. What you've written is fantasy and will stay that way, there is no way that they will nerf stalkers to be unable to fire off any more attacks for a set time after AS.
Methinks you've been at the loopy juice.
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Absolutely right, and what a fab idea! And now you mention it, is there anyone here that plays as a stalker and that think they're overpowered?
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How many ppl ever think their AT is overpowered?
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Realistically and logically ARE they overpowerd or is it more likly some others are just underpowerd or should i say over comfortable with their non=PvP builds?
Appros of nothing in particular, I just though I'd add that it is important to remember that (IM not H in any way O) in PvP balence does not mean that any build vs any other build has a 50% chance of winning. It means that every tactic has a counter, every plan has a loop hole, every power has it's downside.
While you may not have the tools to defeat an enemy, one of your team might.
Incidently, while in Sirens last night I was working particularly on coming up with Dark Miasma counters to (some) stalkers. Suffice to say it was productive.
Dead Calm's Defender Manifesto
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Because the game at no point tells them that they need +Perception in PvP, or to keep moving to avoid Assassin Strikes. These are things you quickly discover after repeatedly being oneshotted, and that puts people off of PvP.
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Game gives you enough warning to stay the [censored] out of PvP zones if you don't want to come into conflict with other players, though.
pre I5 I thought my regen scrapper was overpowered
find me: @Ebon Hawk or @Jayd Dragon on Union
My brawl is overpowered and this is no joke. When i enter PvP i set brawl on auto....with the 3 acc slots i got in and the recharge rate of brawl toggles drop like flies :O
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Ok... Idea:
Make blasters snipe power have a 1 hit kill option??
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ye ok good idea if it works the same way as stalkers in other words you need to line up the target in stelth mode then hit it without being seen if you are seen its interupted and you need to run l;ike stalkers
There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's
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