PvP - Could it BE more imbalanced?
By
Aggravator,
Posted on: 2005-12-09 22:26 in Everything about PvP
It was penny arcade. I have that shirt 
And I was killed by assasin's strike in mid-superjump - if that's standing around..
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It was penny arcade. I have that shirt
And I was killed by assasin's strike in mid-superjump - if that's standing around..
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you were killed in mid because you were standing still when the animation started 
All I have to say about PVP: Stalkers are overpowered.
but a Stalker I went up against the other night would AS, immediately use TP (unsuppressed unlike other travel powers) then placate and hide. It doesn't really give alot of opportunity to strike back, especially when you're a squishy.
Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief
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but a Stalker I went up against the other night would AS, immediately use TP (unsuppressed unlike other travel powers) then placate and hide. It doesn't really give alot of opportunity to strike back, especially when you're a squishy.
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Yeah i know what you mean...for these stalkers most effective sequence combo is fear-toggle droppers-holds-dmg
If they got fear res then you need coordinate toggle drops with placing holds.Tricky to pull but very effective.
Nerf Sappers! I can't take them down with my my PvP built Scrapper!
World of Jackcraft.
Are stalkers unbalanced?
Yes.
Why?
Because they have the ability to one shot characters, leaving the character little recourse after the initial strike. The devs have already said this is not intended and are looking into the problem.
I think it should be mentioned that the targeting in PVP zones is the same as in the PVE ones. It does mean that once an attack has started, and once the to-hit calculation has been made, the attack will hit, wether you move away from it or not.
This was discussed alot on the beta forums when people were super-jumping and would, all of a sudden, find themselves dead. The reason for it was that between the time they landed and took off a stalker had started there AS attack on them. The argument used to be that you could hear AS so you could move out of the way. This is not the case. This issue has not been resolved.
PVP in the main is as balanced as it is in any other game. Spad is right that there are some issues with toggle dropping powers and there is the issue of the shops availability, but these are small inadiquacies in the grander scheme of things.
I think that what Shimmers post addresses are the views of casual gamers entering the zone. It is entirely possible that being one shotted by stalkers will be the entire experiance of some players and that will keep them out of the zones.
I'm not sure what could be done about this. Maybe if the importance of teams was pushed on that blurb you get when you're first told about Bloddy Bay. Maybe if there was an in-game way of seeing what PVP teams were on and what there composition was.
Something else that might help is reducing the activation time on self-heal powers and insps so that 2 shotting is a little more difficult.
Not to say that 2 shotting is a problem, because ultimately that is just tactics, but it is a way that other characters would be able to fight back.
The only other imbalance I can see is fully slotted characters Vs unslotted characters. I think this will become less of a problem when Villains start to hit level caps (after they are raised) and get a little more inf to play with.
Amenta
( I confess that after the first 5 pages I just flicked to the end of the thread..bad me I know but I cannot be arsed reading posts placed by intolerant fools..).
PvP balance:
I do not think that it should be balanced.
Computer games,rp games lrp games all are infested with the strange notion that things must be balanced.
Why?
If people wanted balance then get rid of all but 1 AT, and make sure that the AT had only 2 powers (1 primary and 1 secondary).
Getting 1 shotted is not fun (though I enjoy the desperate typing to get in something funny and witty before I hit the floor..has not happened for a while though,I just die to quick 
) ,and there is little you can do to avoid rapid death without creating a totaly PvP based character..And even then it will still happen.
1: Balance sucks, you cannot have a diverse and exciting setting if everything is balanced.
2: with a setting that has evil assasins.expect to encounter evil assasins..and thus be assasinated.
3: 1 shots suck... But if a char has spent the time specilising to that lvl then there is nothing wrong with it, after all its their char.
4: PvP I think should not be open to characters below the exemp/sk lvl. you can get into sirens at 20..which is death for most ATs , I allmost got angry after I realised that I could hardly bruise any villains..But then I noticed that I was 10 lvls lower than most of them, this can put new players off,really quickly.
Sure I might have been skd to 30, but those few lvls make a huge difference when it comes to powers and slots, when it comes down to it the villains I was leaping at would all have been purple and beyond to me in pve...
Bah post has degenerated into mad mutterings...sigh..
Any way, everyone be nice and have fun
DG>
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1: Balance sucks, you cannot have a diverse and exciting setting if everything is balanced.
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Better stop playing CoH then, because one thing that is constantly strived for is "balance".
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but a Stalker I went up against the other night would AS, immediately use TP (unsuppressed unlike other travel powers) then placate and hide. It doesn't really give alot of opportunity to strike back, especially when you're a squishy.
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If i remember right most of ur complaints the other night u were playing a Regen Scrapper ... hardly squishy. Complaining about how overpowered stalkers were yet were happy to continually target the squishies all the time even tho there were brutes around
Me thinks you oversimplify the problem!
PvP is a tricky beast at best no one wants to die and thats a pity because plenty of people wish to kill!
As a PvP game CoX is different from pretty much any other game I have chanced across and I have chanced across a few
It is as has been stated its a glorified Paper Rock combo game and people dont like not having a chance, after all if there is one rock and masses of paper then the rocks in for a poor experience at best
Your saying that casual gamers are pretty much going to be excluded from having a fun PvP game, that seems kind of poor if a sizable potion of the paying public cant use all of the facets of the game.
The old Devs need really to have another look at the whole PvP structure as currently there are massive holes in the whole shebang, yes some alts are happy as Larry and some alts are crying out in desperation.
Time will tell but if there is to be any legs on the whole PvP game then it needs to be fair all alts need to have the same chance no matter what there class or it will rapidly spiral into the same few alt types as they will be the only viable PvP.
Team play is not the whole answer either or again anyone who cant get a team is stuck
So
No team = No PvP
That not acceptable either!
PvP has been shoehorned into a game where it seems it was never meant to be.
Its a poor development poorly tested and not given the time it needed to be viable,
If there had been PvP in Beta pretty much all of these points would have been asked/pointed out then.
Auto Assaults Beta testing has been going on for months fine tuning and adjusting,
It started way before CoV and is ongoing now!
Nuff said
Threads like this do nothing for the most part. They mostly show an immaturity of a number of players when they have to deal with something they are unnaccustomed to. Unfortunately some of the very relevent discussions and posts in amongst the harrangue get lost in amongst the repetative droll.
I really dont see why some people like to whine about Stalkers being overpowered and know nothing about them, havent even bothered reading other threads discussing the same issue. Others seem to want to rant at people who are only playing an AT that is available and doing what that AT is supposed to do. What are we supposed to do? Build our stalkers without slotting damage into AS?
As has been pointed out numerous times on this thread and others.. Stalkers are about to get AS nerfed a bit. So what is the point in complaining i ask? I fear that the answer i come up with for a lot of this is complaining for complaings sake and the well known trend of forums ... bandwagoning.
To people like Shimmer who's attitude is "Why should i buy inspirations!" and wont even listen to advice (some of which comes from Stalkers!)... I say Tough!
Oh and btw for all squishies that think that when AS is nerfed that life will be easy round Stalkers then ur in for a surprise All it'll do is make u 2 shottable the same as Blasters are now
The thing is though Nomolos where will the 'balancing' stop if this is to be done? Surely you cant expect all toons to be able to solo PvP the same? I wouldnt dream of solo'ing on my Empath or Dark Defender for example and would not like the game to be 'balanced' in order to make it possible. IMO this would ruin PvP.
Thats Kind of the point Zephyrus if the alts were to be balanced then the problem would be when to attack not who!
All alts need to have a chance at the cake not the lucky few who have picked through luck or studying the forums a viable PvP alt.
PvP need better understanding from the Devs rather than nurffing all and sundry.
I have no problems with AS as such and if it goes to a 2 strike combo fine, for now!
And yes I believe all alts should have there fair crack at PvP thats the point is it not?
For the people who purchased the original product, that product has now changed from the original idea into the new and improved Product X
But what happens to all the other people who were quite happy with Product Y and there PvE game?
They have had major changes to there power sets in anticipation of PvP most alts are shadows of there former selves lower defense, lower damage, longer recharge etc etc and then to top it off the very thing the game was bringing to the party mainly the PvP just will not work with most alts that is quite shocking realy.
I have gone through all of my alts and there are only a couple that make ok ish PvP alts thats been disappointing for me I really wanted to PvP and now find I dont have a qualifying alt 
.
In every PvP game I have played
(Bar SWG where the combat was a confusing mess when I was there, cant say how it is now but it was a mess)
all of the alts are pretty much the same if player A gets into a tank I will spawn as anti tank, player B jumps into a plane ill just nip over to that ack ack gun and say hi.
As has been stated many times before the player should count not the alt, personally I would far rather have a skillful player hand me my bottom on a purple cushion than Generic PvP alt 0098
After all we invest weeks and months of time on our alts building them up to be the best they can be it would be nice to be able to rebuild them for what ever type of game we wish to play easily and pretty much at the drop of a hat unlike now where we get a limited number of tries before we have to rely on a free respect when a major change kills another power!
And I personally think balanced alts would not kill PvP but would make it much more fun just think of the old days and the power you used to wield
Long Live the player nurf the nurfs
Well i was just in Sirens on a rare Hero side visit using my grav/rad troller and stalkers were largely useless, sure they got the odd shot in on a straggler (too often me ) but thats what they are supposed to do, didnt bother me, I come out running and back into the frey.
When I play my stalker I do not think he is overpowered by any stretch of the imagination and yet i fully feel my controller is overpowered. I was standing in the middle of 2 brutes and a load of ninja hencemen with holds and debuffs flowing and it was painful to watch, there is no way I should have been able to do that in my opinion. So my stalker take out a sole player, big deal, controllers can tear an opposing team to shreds.
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
Re: DavidG
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Balance sucks, you cannot have a diverse and exciting setting if everything is balanced.
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Well aparently everything has already been balanced.
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with a setting that has evil assasins.expect to encounter evil assasins..and thus be assasinated.
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The problem with that is, this is a game. If people aren't having fun because of the evil assasins then they will be less likely to continue PVPing.
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1 shots suck... But if a char has spent the time specilising to that lvl then there is nothing wrong with it, after all its their char.
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They haven't. They need to take one power since Hide is the first in the secondary and you have to take it. Any PVE character would take AS. You're not talking about characters who have set out to create characters that work like this. It's what they inherently do.
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PvP I think should not be open to characters below the exemp/sk lvl. you can get into sirens at 20..which is death for most ATs , I allmost got angry after I realised that I could hardly bruise any villains..But then I noticed that I was 10 lvls lower than most of them, this can put new players off,really quickly.
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I agree, but even at level 30 you could be 20 levels below other players, and they will have SOs as well as the extra slots.
Re: Nomolos
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Your saying that casual gamers are pretty much going to be excluded from having a fun PvP game, that seems kind of poor if a sizable potion of the paying public cant use all of the facets of the game.
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Well I'm saying that it's much harder for a casual gamer. There build will be geared towards PVE because that's all they know until level 20. Still, the only thing this is different from, is games where PVP is open and expected from level one.
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...if there is to be any legs on the whole PvP game then it needs to be fair all alts need to have the same chance no matter what there class or it will rapidly spiral into the same few alt types as they will be the only viable PvP.
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It's odd. I seam to have seen more defenders and controlers on he side of the current PVP balance than against it. We do appear to have a situation where EVERYONE is having to change there builds to combat stalker tactics. This is an imbalance in the system and it is being looked at.
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Team play is not the whole answer either or again anyone who cant get a team is stuck
So
No team = No PvP
That not acceptable either!
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I've not seen it work like this. I know a few people who have gone into the zones on there own and had a good time. What the PVPers are saying is that to maintain survivability then you need a team. Since there are other toons in the zones who are in teams this seams sensible. you just have to be awair that on your own you have a much higher chance of being ganked.
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PvP has been shoehorned into a game where it seems it was never meant to be.
Its a poor development poorly tested and not given the time it needed to be viable,
If there had been PvP in Beta pretty much all of these points would have been asked/pointed out then.
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But that is why we have it in zones. That way it is not unbalancing the PVE game. But PVP does need to be a part of the game to servive in todays markets.
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Auto Assaults Beta testing has been going on for months fine tuning and adjusting,
It started way before CoV and is ongoing now!
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Yeah, and in an ideal world we would still be in beta. We arn't and any imbalance/bug is something we have to live with. As it is, as far as PVP is concerned, it's not too far off.
Re: Zephyrus
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Oh and btw for all squishies that think that when AS is nerfed that life will be easy round Stalkers then ur in for a surprise All it'll do is make u 2 shottable the same as Blasters are now
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It will give you some thinking time though. You won't just be dead all of a sudden which is what can happen now.
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The thing is though Nomolos where will the 'balancing' stop if this is to be done? Surely you cant expect all toons to be able to solo PvP the same? I wouldnt dream of solo'ing on my Empath or Dark Defender for example and would not like the game to be 'balanced' in order to make it possible. IMO this would ruin PvP.
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I agree. The problem is support characters are just that, support characters. Some can handle themselves very well in PVP and others can't. A good rule of thumb I found is if your character can solo on an invincable level then it has some chance in PVP. If not, you definately need a team.
Amenta
i dont mind being hit by a stalker, its the after effect. ive read the first page and this one so sorry if im saying something stupid.
so far, ive been one shotted by stalkers 3 times, twice in bloody bay and once in sirens. an energy/ stalker one shot me (you know who you are) and i was in flight and i had cloaking device on, so how they could have seen me and then gotten into place fast enough to hit me with it, not sure. but im alright with it, as long as it doesnt cause the after effect, lag. i was going along, nearly lag free, then along the stalker came, huge amount of effects, i lagged and when it came back i was on the ground with the stalker over me, then it disappeared and buggered off.
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
Union EU player! Pip pip, tally ho, top hats and tea etc etc
to be honest i havent checkd the hole thread but there is a hero set that can do almodt the same thing the illuion controler can invis past everything not seen then without any risk dump all its pets on one target effectivly taken them out i know this tactic well i used it alot when soloing before pvp.
there is no easy way to defend againts this or stalkers but a combination of things can help im ure all have been liusted in here somewhere
There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's
Darklords of the Underworld/Lords of Light forums [url="http://www.armleg.com/dlotu"]www.armleg.com/dlotu[/url]
Scotlands Bru ill/emp troller lvl 50
Monster Bru SS/stone brute lvl 50
Carman thugs/dark mm lvl 50
My 2 inf on the subject.
I got to about page 11 of the thread and it just seems to be going over old ground. So I'll just say this. (Which I know will just fire up the general posting populous some more!!)
1) In my CURRENT opinion there IS a balance problem. Simply put these threads wouldn't exist if there wasn't. (Ouch controversial statement number one!! ) And whenever I've been in PvP it's almost ALWAYS been a Stalker at the top of the Most Wanted list. Should a single Archetype dominate that list to such a degree ?
2) PvP/PvE etc. I will freely admit here that I'm a bit of a PvP noob. I will freely admit that I don't have a PvP specced toon. I will state for the record that I've been playing this game since Feb and have mid to high level characters in almost all the Hero archetypes. I can handle my characters pretty well. I'm not cocky enough to say I'm the leading expert on any of them, but I'm pretty competent.
So all that being true, why in PvP, regardless of what Character I bring online, do I only ever have problems with Stalkers ??
All the other Villain AT's I can have a fair fight with. Some I win, some I lose. Doesn't bother me a bit. Honours are probably about even. But Stalkers ??
3) Prep time and needed abilities. I've read alot of advice above here and also on other threads. I've tried most of it (where I have the appropriate powers or teams available) with a variety of alts. Some of it is pretty good advice, some of it is frankly [censored]. (or just doesn't seem to work for me. Anyhow I don't want to go into that too deeply, it's been done to death!)
While YES I still expect to lose out to a specifically set up PvP player, I can't believe that ALL the Stalkers in PvP and specced specifically for PvP?!? Aren't there any Stalkers who just pop in for some fun like we heroes do ??
And why do we need to go to so much trouble, prep work, insp buying and ensuring we have the correct teammates around us and are functioning correctly just so we can take down one Stalker ??
[censored] would we need to do if 8 Stalkers all teamed up in one big hunting pack ?!? (actually as I'm currently building a Stalker I'd quite like to try that )
4) I've seen Stalkers hit me while moving. I've seen them walk through PBAoE's. I've seen them survive Aim, Build-Up and Snipe from my NRG Blaster. I've seen them stay invisible when I've popped Insps like sweets. I've seen them one shot blasters and two shot Tanks. I've seen them take me out while hovering, whilst in flight, whilst stealthed. I've seen them run, SJ, Teleport and fly away and hide so you can't retaliate.
It's absolutley blindingly obvious to anyone.... a patient stalker willing to bide their time can get you all the time. NO MATTER THE PREP!!! The key word there is patient.
They're hunter killers that's their job. And a competent player (like Stalk-Obot) will get you everytime. They jsut wait for that one moment of weakness.
(Which is why the frankly ridiculous advice of "Keep Moving" annoys me so much. My blaster HAS to stand still when sniping. My Empath HAS to stand still while delivering RA. When my scrapper triggers Integration she stops and guess what...... stands still. Any interruptable power being activated is the patient stalkers opportunity. It's not inept gaming on the part of the player, it's simple game mechanics!!)
5) I've read through these threads, lots of them and it always seems to boil down to the Stalkers posting how you can supposedly beat them and the Heroes posting how they think it's unfair. Either that or you get some cocky hero type who claims that he's unbelievably hard in PvP and Stalkers don't affect him at all.
The first set are just defending their characters against feared nerfs. Some of them condescendingly so when they know that they are ruling PvP with an iron fist and little death. The second set are mostly the people who either haven't played Villains, haven't tried the Stalker powerset and who are mostly just frustrated after a couple of hours of constant face plants. The last ones I ignore as I have little time for people who blow their own trumpets and proclaim their greatness.
The antagonistic nature of some of the posts here (especially the early ones!!) just made things worse.
I have, to be honest, rarely seen any middle ground being struck.
So I'm going to try.
Yeah you've all read what was above and your bloods boiling and someones about to send a cutting response to me stating how I'm wrong and that their Stalker is oh so very squishee etc etc etc blah blah blah.
But I'm different from the others.
I've been a hero on the receiving end and now, after some really good advice and great input from Stalk-Obot (Thanx matey, us conversing on the other post in the Stalker section has been enlightening, informative and was just the sort of fair debate I think we needed), I'm trying a Stalker of my own to see if everything I've written above is true...... or a load of biased nonsense written by someone frustrated by losing out to Stalkers in PvP all the time.
Yup. Rogue Predator will be stalking heroes in Sirens call any day soon and then I'll see what the fuss is about from the other side of the fence.
I'll reserve judgement at the moment. He's still relatively low level and thus far I'm not really seeing what some of the Stalkers seem to be pushing as the big weakness of the Stalker set. Squishee-ness.
However I'm experienced enough to understand that the low level missions aren't too taxing and that things will probably get harder and more will be revealed as time goes on and the levels go up. Judgement at this juncture is very firmly reserved.
The proof of the pudding will be when I get into the PvP zones. If I can wander around and strike out at will with little or no danger to myself then I'll feel justified about my moans and complaints about the lack of balance.
If I consistently get my hidden a55 handed to me by heroes then I will eat humble pie and admit that I was wrong.
Time will tell.
The other point I'd like to make here is that I really DON'T want Stalkers nerfed unduly. I understand the archetype and the reasons it is the way it is. Personally I feel that it is a very interesting archetype and the game needs more of them. It would have been very easy to just make the Stalker a Scrapper. But they aren't. Try playing like a Scrapper and you'll lose. Alot.
What I'd like to see is some little things done to help the Heroes without the need to go to all that prep work. What that is I'm really not sure. But I'd just like for me to be able to take my toons into a PvP zone and have a fair fisticuff type fight with a Stalker the same way I can with all the other archetypes.
I hope I've maybe headed off the horrid Posts alot of you were maybe preparing to send my way. I hope that you read through all I've written properly and got what I'm trying to say here. I really am trying to learn MORE about BEING a Stalker before I jump onto the Nerf Bandwagon.
In summary then, I'd like to see the Stalkers and the Heroes stop getting defensive with each other. Where's the love people??
If you have a problem with Stalkers then I suggest that the best way to figure them out is to try them out. Make one of your own. Getting one to Level 20 doesn't take that long and on the way you may learn to either appreciate them, learn how to defeat them or maybe just justify what is being argued.
I want to be able to come onto these boards in a few weeks time and say. "YES!!! I was right, this is unbalanced. I rule PvP with my basic stalker!!" or say "SORRY FOLKS!! I was wrong, My stalker is being pwnd everytime I enter PvP."
On a final note, I have to agree with Shimmer on one thing. Seeing Stalkers when you've outsmarted them. One of the first times I came across a Stalker in Bloody Bay he attacked me. I had NO CLUE what was going on. At that point I'd only just got CoV, my first time in a PvP zone, didn't know what Stalkers were capable of. After a couple of AS's and trips to hospital, I got wise to this guys game.
Being clever I thought, "I know, I'll draw him into the water!!" So I did. Once there I knew where he was. I could see him running through the water, the ripples gave him away. So we did a merry little dance, him trying to position for AS while I danced away. Bet he wondered why I wouldn't go near him! hehe!
My point is that in the REAL WORLD, in that instant he was given away. In those instances he should be visible to target. I'd outsmarted him and I knew where he was. Dammit if I'd had a virtual pot of paint I'd have chucked it over him at that point revealing him to the world.
I'm not asking for Nerfs. But I'd like some help. Like being able to bash Stalkers when you KNOW where they are.
Blueside Level 50's.... Knightingale (Def), Rogue Elevenex (Blast), Lady Rogue (Scrap), Mr Infinity (Tank), Miss Infinity (Troller), Knight.Shade (WS), Knight.Bringer (PB)
Redside Level 50's... Colonel Rogue (Brute), Sergeant Domino (Stalk), F411-OUT (Dom)
Next Project: Psiryn Psi/Psi Cor Global Handle is @Knightingale
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5) I've read through these threads, lots of them and it always seems to boil down to the Stalkers posting how you can supposedly beat them and the Heroes posting how they think it's unfair. Either that or you get some cocky hero type who claims that he's unbelievably hard in PvP and Stalkers don't affect him at all.
[/ QUOTE ] I agree with your post and like what i read but would like to make a comment on that part. I have claimed in the past that my game style is not affected by stalkers and i have reasoned it well. Still is not due to ckckyness but is because is the way i see the stalkers inside the zone. In the teams that i usually team the only stalker i worry about till now meaning i am more alertful compared to others is Obot for reasons that he knows. This is due to the fact that i am well prepared against stalkers and so is my team. A small example from todays action. There is a stalker that claimed he is really good and rarely dies and was in SC today. He based a lot of his gamestyle on teleport hit placate tp out in again and repeat...well i went with my empath in and had a good laugh. When i switched to controller the process was simple. He tp in take the hit on me i would fear and toggle drop and immediately queue tp so by the time he came back he was toggle dropped with half a bar of hp and feared...he died at least 4 times easily and was thinking very very hard before attacking. The thing is stalkers are indeed an AT of patience and also an AT that is more PvP viable due to its nature and thats why most people have issues against stalkers. Most people that pick a stalker are aware that its a pvp AT mostly so they go prepared in the zone.
i died twice, killed you twice
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We do appear to have a situation where EVERYONE is having to change there builds to combat stalker tactics. This is an imbalance in the system and it is being looked at.
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I feel I have to point out... I've not changed a single one of my toons to combat stalkers, and I use a number of them in the PvP zones. I make use of whatever I already have (not much, in some cases), and just asking around and joining any existing team if I can (something that anyone can do - you don't need friends or PvP knowledge to shout over broadcast that you need a team). Generally, even if the Stalkers are out in force, it hardly causes me a lot of worry; I keep moving, and if I do get hit? Oh well, no debt, quick run back from the hospital. I doubt I'm the only person happily PvPing with non-Stalker builds, and even non-PvP builds in a number of cases.
I do think a warning on the PvP areas about how useful a team is, perhaps when you're first sent to the liasons for each zone, might be useful. It's been done plenty of times for missions that are significantly easier with help, so I don't see why not for the zones.
If you have to stop to activate Integration, then yes there is something wrong...
Even in my I5 build a Stalker with AS could hit me several times (AS once with a follow up) and I'd simply smile and kill him/her, only if my health is sub 50% do I worry about a Stalker. Or if I'm held/etc, but then anything has a good chance of killing me.
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1) In my CURRENT opinion there IS a balance problem. Simply put these threads wouldn't exist if there wasn't.
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Human nature dictates (sadly) that in any scenario where there is a perceived difference in ability, the less rational mind will always presume that the difference is down to factors beyond his/her control - regardless of whether or not they exist.
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2) PvP/PvE etc. I will freely admit here that I'm a bit of a PvP noob. I will freely admit that I don't have a PvP specced toon...
So all that being true, why in PvP, regardless of what Character I bring online, do I only ever have problems with Stalkers ??
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1) You haven't PvP'd enough to know how to deal with Stalkers, maybe?
2) Possibly, the other ATs have slotting issues - either in physical lack of slots, with suboptimal slotting, or without the required inf to buy a full complement of sparkly SOs. As a result, they're functioning at a lower level than you should expect in future.
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While YES I still expect to lose out to a specifically set up PvP player, I can't believe that ALL the Stalkers in PvP and specced specifically for PvP?!? Aren't there any Stalkers who just pop in for some fun like we heroes do ??
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Yes - they're the ones without Stealth. Whenever I've seen PvE Stalkers in Sirens, I've noticed that they tend to drop pretty quickly, and often.
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And why do we need to go to so much trouble, prep work, insp buying and ensuring we have the correct teammates around us and are functioning correctly just so we can take down one Stalker ??
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You don't need to - a big enough team should be able to look after itself. You don't need multiple people to take down a stalker, after all.
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would we need to do if 8 Stalkers all teamed up in one big hunting pack ?!? (actually as I'm currently building a Stalker I'd quite like to try that )
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Stalkers tend to work alone or in pairs, from all I've seen. If 8 stalkers teamed up and centred on a team in close formation, all you'd need is one AoE to hit them all and bring them out of hide - or one FF Force Bubble, presuming they're not /Energy. Or someone casting CM. Or Tactics. Or a couple of Whirlwind/Repel-ers running around. Or, or, or... are we getting the idea here?
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It's absolutley blindingly obvious to anyone.... a patient stalker willing to bide their time can get you all the time. NO MATTER THE PREP!!! The key word there is patient.
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So will a patient Blaster, or a patient Controller, or a patient Corruptor... as a Blaster, I've 'stalked' Stalkers/Brutes/Corruptors across the length and breadth of Bloody Bay/Sirens and back again. So long as you carefully choose your moment to strike, you'll get your target in the end - unless someone beats you to it.
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(Which is why the frankly ridiculous advice of "Keep Moving" annoys me so much. My blaster HAS to stand still when sniping. My Empath HAS to stand still while delivering RA. When my scrapper triggers Integration she stops and guess what...... stands still. Any interruptable power being activated is the patient stalkers opportunity. It's not inept gaming on the part of the player, it's simple game mechanics!!)
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But you choose when to activate those powers - if you use any rooting power in a PvP situation, you actively take the risk that you are an obvious target - for everyone. Even in the S4 competition, rooting usually = death, the first thing I noticed as an AR blaster with a number of powers that require excessive rooting animations. (You can slot your snipe for Interrupt Reductions, though.) If you choose to take these actions whilst in plain view and on an easily accessible surface, then you choose to suffer the consequences - in the good old fashioned risk/reward sense: you may get the kill (reward) at the price of being dropped yourself (risk). If you weigh up the options available to you and choose an outcome that results in a negative outcome, then you may just have made a bad decision for that scenario. It does not mean that Stalkers are "zomg overpowered", they just exploited your tactical weakness.
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5) I've read through these threads, lots of them and it always seems to boil down to the Stalkers posting how you can supposedly beat them and the Heroes posting how they think it's unfair. Either that or you get some cocky hero type who claims that he's unbelievably hard in PvP and Stalkers don't affect him at all.
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I've taken out every Stalker I've ever come across in PvP at least once; I have been taken out by most of them. Some of them have better kill/been killed ratios against me, a significant amount don't.
All that is far from cockiness - the above are plain statements of fact. I have also been dropped by MMs, Corruptors, Brutes, and Dominators - of them all, Stalkers included, I fear Corruptors the most. Not only can they take me out by themselves, but failing that they can make it incredibly simple for anyone else to put me on the hospital express. They can be in your face and hurting you, or off at a distance and causing you problems. Stalkers can hit me hard, and I can run away, or two/three-shot them if they miss... and that's about it. They're only a problem when they're in your face (or behind it ).
Point in case, only yesterday I witnessed a lone Corruptor being ganged up on by an En/? Blaster and a DM/DA Scrapper - not only did the Corruptor drop the Blaster, but she didn't get dropped by the Scrapper in the process - in fact, she flew away on full health. Would a Stalker have fared as well in a similar scenario, being blindsided by 2 heroes, staying to fight it out and pulling off a victory in the process? Doubtful.
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The other point I'd like to make here is that I really DON'T want Stalkers nerfed unduly. I understand the archetype and the reasons it is the way it is. Personally I feel that it is a very interesting archetype and the game needs more of them.
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I think PvP needs a little more variety, to be honest - more Dominators at the very least, I can go days without seeing a purple icon next to an orange name. As the average villain level increases, though, I think we'll see that - some ATs need more slotting/levels to be effective than others (as stated above), whereas Stalkers are essentially fully operational from the get-go by the time PvP becomes an option.
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But I'd just like for me to be able to take my toons into a PvP zone and have a fair fisticuff type fight with a Stalker the same way I can with all the other archetypes.
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The thing with Stalkers is - at least with the good ones - they're rarely going to let you get into a position where you can have a "fair fisticuff" fight with them.
It's refreshing to see that you're willing to challenge your opinion, though. For what it's worth, I had a Stalker - but I just didn't get into it; I deleted him last night, as it happens. Stalking isn't for everyone.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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w00t. A compliment *beams*
Woohoo common sense. Thank-you Dryad (cool name BTW)
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