OMG THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
By
7thCynic,
Posted on: 2009-07-16 11:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
while i think i will like being able to spawn missions set for 8 solo, maybe its the cynicism in me .... but does anyone else think this might also be nerf bait dangling before us?
DEV: "hmmm we seem ot have an abnormal number of Electric/electric tanks soloing the Dreck map, Nerf them to hell i say!"
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I'm against dropping the TF reqs. The reasons being given for doing so aren't any different than the reasons we've heard for 5 years.
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OK, so what are your reasons for NOT dropping them?
"Because."
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"Because."
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I think if you drop the requirements to 1 player for TFs, it should only spawn the EB... and on top of that you should only get half the badge 
But on another Note, I think ALL TFs should be dropped to 3 people to start them.
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I'm against dropping the TF reqs. The reasons being given for doing so aren't any different than the reasons we've heard for 5 years.
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OK, so what are your reasons for NOT dropping them?
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Well I for one don't mind that there are a least a few things in a MMO like this that are actually -intended- for a team. There is absolutely no reason that a MMO must be 100% soloable.
With the difficult setting update in I16 people will now have the option to solo all sorts of missions the way they want with that feature. There's no "requirement" that TFs be made accessible that way as well.
Anyway we all know that if you still really want to solo TFs you can get padders. I basically see no reason why that should be "easy" to do when it goes against what the Devs intended for that content. We probably ought to be happy the game will continue to let us play through TFs solo once started to begin with. *shrugs*
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--{=====> Virtue ♀
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"Because."
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I think if you drop the requirements to 1 player for TFs, it should only spawn the EB... and on top of that you should only get half the badge
But on another Note, I think ALL TFs should be dropped to 3 people to start them.
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Just change the rewards.
In order to get the regular rewards for doing a TF they must have the minimum number of teammates.
If they choose to do a TF with less than the minimum number of teammates, they only get drops as if the TF was a normal storyarc.
After all they want to take their time and enjoy the content, it isn't about the rewards.
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"Because."
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I think if you drop the requirements to 1 player for TFs, it should only spawn the EB... and on top of that you should only get half the badge
But on another Note, I think ALL TFs should be dropped to 3 people to start them.
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Just change the rewards.
In order to get the regular rewards for doing a TF they must have the minimum number of teammates.
If they choose to do a TF with less than the minimum number of teammates, they only get drops as if the TF was a normal storyarc.
After all they want to take their time and enjoy the content, it isn't about the rewards.
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Why? A single player, or 2 players, or 3 players on a TF don't get any more rewards per person that if they were on a team of 8. They get the exact same number of merits no matter what. Why reduce the rewards if they are doing it alone or in a smaller than normal team? That kind of goes against the whole risk/reward concept.
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I'm against dropping the TF reqs. The reasons being given for doing so aren't any different than the reasons we've heard for 5 years.
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OK, so what are your reasons for NOT dropping them?
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Well I for one don't mind that there are a least a few things in a MMO like this that are actually -intended- for a team. There is absolutely no reason that a MMO must be 100% soloable.
With the difficult setting update in I16 people will now have the option to solo all sorts of missions the way they want with that feature. There's no "requirement" that TFs be made accessible that way as well.
Anyway we all know that if you still really want to solo TFs you can get padders. I basically see no reason why that should be "easy" to do when it goes against what the Devs intended for that content. We probably ought to be happy the game will continue to let us play through TFs solo once started to begin with. *shrugs*
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We're not just talking about solo players here. Many of the TF's require 6 or more players to start them. The content can still be intended for a team, but not have the same, high requirements it has now. Personally, I'd love to be able to duo all the TF's with a friend, without having to go through the hassle of rounding up 4 or more people to pad the team.
And, as you said, it can be done now anyway, by using fillers. So removing the hurdle of the starting requirement really doesn't allow anything that is not already possible. It is simply a QoL increase for those players that want to do this.
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PI will be the Nicest place for all you people who want to team up, you wont see SPAM.
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Except now people will be spamming for teams because all the teams will be 8-man teams of one.
I do think this is a really nice addition for people who want more challenging missions.
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
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Enhanced Difficulty Options - Players can now fine-tune their difficulty levels by telling the game exactly how they want to be treated. They can choose to be regarded as a specific size team (even if they are soloing), and even have control over the level they are detected to be when it comes to the dynamic spawn system. So if you ever wanted to see if your Scrapper could take on a map that is populated for an 8 person team, four levels higher than your own, now you can! The difficulty settings of the mission owner dictate how the mission is handled, just as before, and you can change your difficulty settings at any Hero Corp.'s Representative in Paragon City or Fateweaver in the Rogue Isles.
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DO NOT CHANGE THIS I WILL RESUB FOR LIFE. 3 accounts.
Seriously. I LOVE THIS.
I WILL NEVER ASK PEOPLE TO FILL EVER EVER AGAIN.
PI will be the Nicest place for all you people who want to team up, you wont see SPAM. THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER.
[/ QUOTE ]So I guess you're a farmer.
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Enhanced Difficulty Options - Players can now fine-tune their difficulty levels by telling the game exactly how they want to be treated. They can choose to be regarded as a specific size team (even if they are soloing), and even have control over the level they are detected to be when it comes to the dynamic spawn system. So if you ever wanted to see if your Scrapper could take on a map that is populated for an 8 person team, four levels higher than your own, now you can! The difficulty settings of the mission owner dictate how the mission is handled, just as before, and you can change your difficulty settings at any Hero Corp.'s Representative in Paragon City or Fateweaver in the Rogue Isles.
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DO NOT CHANGE THIS I WILL RESUB FOR LIFE. 3 accounts.
Seriously. I LOVE THIS.
I WILL NEVER ASK PEOPLE TO FILL EVER EVER AGAIN.
PI will be the Nicest place for all you people who want to team up, you wont see SPAM. THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER.
[/ QUOTE ]So I guess you're a farmer.
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Duh.
BillZBubba wrote:
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Just as long as PUGs don't switch over to 'WE MUST FIGHT INVINCIBLE +6S. AGH WE DIED NEED MORE HEALXX0RZ!!!'
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That WILL happen. It happens now. It will be worse with this change.
However, this is also a learning experience for many now and will also be later.
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If there's one thing this game has taught me, it's that some people don't learn, even when presented with the undeniable evidence.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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I'm against dropping the TF reqs. The reasons being given for doing so aren't any different than the reasons we've heard for 5 years.
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True. Just like the reasons we had for not getting power customization or claws on brutes or larger than 5 digits on the trade inf screen or any number of other changes that X% of the population stated "we'd never get."
The technology is being given to us to set our virtual team size.
All the developers have to do is allow the virtual team size to be recognized as the actual team size by the task force minimum requirement code.
Reasons for allowing it shown in this thread and every other thread on the topic outweigh reasons for not allowing it.
Those that want to team, can. Those that can't handle missions set for 3 players while solo can get two teammates to help them.
Those that can crank it to 11 and take down every AV thrown at them while sitting at the aggro cap from the minute they walk through door number 1 will get to.
Seriously, who will be hurt by this decision? Who will be helped?
Which population has more to gain?
Be well, people of CoH.
Lothic wrote:
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I'm against dropping the TF reqs. The reasons being given for doing so aren't any different than the reasons we've heard for 5 years.
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OK, so what are your reasons for NOT dropping them?
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Well I for one don't mind that there are a least a few things in a MMO like this that are actually -intended- for a team. There is absolutely no reason that a MMO must be 100% soloable.
With the difficult setting update in I16 people will now have the option to solo all sorts of missions the way they want with that feature. There's no "requirement" that TFs be made accessible that way as well.
Anyway we all know that if you still really want to solo TFs you can get padders. I basically see no reason why that should be "easy" to do when it goes against what the Devs intended for that content. We probably ought to be happy the game will continue to let us play through TFs solo once started to begin with. *shrugs*
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I agree. (And I left her whole post in because it's all relevant.) There's a workaround today that you can use. But the original intent of TFs/SFs is that they're large team-based challenges.
If you =can= solo them, cool. But there's plenty of other content you can run solo if you want to.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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BillZBubba wrote:
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Just as long as PUGs don't switch over to 'WE MUST FIGHT INVINCIBLE +6S. AGH WE DIED NEED MORE HEALXX0RZ!!!'
[/ QUOTE ]
That WILL happen. It happens now. It will be worse with this change.
However, this is also a learning experience for many now and will also be later.
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If there's one thing this game has taught me, it's that some people don't learn, even when presented with the undeniable evidence.
--NT
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<shrug> Ya can't fix stupid. But you can put them on gignore. 
Be well, people of CoH.
The main reason I want the team size slider to be accepted by the TF contacts is simple.
I hate bugging my SG and coalition mates for a filler or three when I want to solo, or duo a TF.
They dont complain, but I know I am taking from their valuable in game time.
I mostly run them teamed, but ti would be great to have the option to avoid bugging them.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Seriously, who will be hurt by this decision? Who will be helped?
Which population has more to gain?
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This will depend, but if there is no EB version of TF AVs (or if the devs don't want TFs to spawn EBs) then unless you're an AV soloer, you'll get through the rest of the TF and be blocked from completion at the last mission. Even if you give the players a warning, that leaves a very narrow subset of players who'd be able to actually be able to solo the TF. (Keep in mind that TFs aren't just lvl50, so if you can solo an AV at lvl50 doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to at lvl20.)
Don't get me wrong Bill, I'm not against soloable TFs, but I don't think the majority of people would pull it off. Now if you wanted to just relax the necessary group members for most** TFs, then by all means.
**Some TFs would be impossible to solo. TFs with simultaneous clicks (Hess) or ones designed to be super difficult (STF) come to mind.
[edit: Oh, and I've said it elsewhere, but the new difficulty slider is win. Can't wait to crank it up for my Tank.]
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I agree. (And I left her whole post in because it's all relevant.) There's a workaround today that you can use. But the original intent of TFs/SFs is that they're large team-based challenges.
If you =can= solo them, cool. But there's plenty of other content you can run solo if you want to.
--NT
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And the original intent was that they be done over a several day period too. Look how that turned out. Saying "that's the way it has always been" is not a particularly valid argument.
And, again, we're not just talking about solo runs here. What if my wife or a friend, and I, want to duo all the Freedom Phalanx TF's? Why exclude players from certain content, when they are capable of doing it? I run into players all the time who say they have never run a TF, or have only run one a couple times over years of playing the game.
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Even if you give the players a warning, that leaves a very narrow subset of players who'd be able to actually be able to solo the TF.
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I respectfully disagree. Pretty much every build can solo most AVs with one shivan and lots of purple insps - and, yes, there's people who still won't be able to, just like there's people who aren't able to solo purple bosses in normal missions. Should we get rid of purple bosses in normal missions ? The standard disclaimer coming the con system ("purple is very dangerous and shouldn't be attacked solo", or something like that) seems to work well enough. I certainly hardly see anyone complaining about bosses in solo missions.
I'm going to take this argument in a different direction:
The only TF that I run regularly is the ITF. I prefer doing so with a full team of 8 players because it's more fun for me to do so. Not because of the spawn counts, but because of the general chaos that can occur.
I have soloed the ITF. Or rather I have failed at soloing it due to the autohit fluffy. Yes, I managed to get all the way to the end and failed. I have formulated a plan to deal with that, though.
I attempted this solo event by bothering other players to pad up to the minimum team size and then stayed in the TF by having the extraneous pads quit and then utilizing the bugged exploit where you are left with one teammate that stays in the group but logs off.
Anyone starting to see the problem here yet?
We are being given the ability to set ourselves as a virtual team size. We are being told that this virtual team size will not be recognized by the TF minimum size code, so we're left with having to utilize bugs, exploiting the system, in order to accomplish that which could be accomplished with a flip of a switch on the developer's side.
If they don't wish us to solo TF/SFs, then the bugs that allow us to exploit the system should be fixed.
If they don't care, then they should give us the ability to start TFs solo.
But to deny us the ability to run content intended for teams while giving us the ability to set content difficulty levels as if we had a team makes no sense to me.
EDIT: Sarrate, I hear you, but I don't consider that a problem. No one ever said that everyone should be able to accomplish everything they attempt to do. A solo player right now can run into an AV that they may not be able to handle. Failure happens.
Anyone attempting team content by themselves should know and accept this.
As for the multi-glowy example, the devs have removed most of those from the game, haven't they? Perhaps they should remove them all.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Seriously, who will be hurt by this decision? Who will be helped?
Which population has more to gain?
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This will depend, but if there is no EB version of TF AVs (or if the devs don't want TFs to spawn EBs) then unless you're an AV soloer, you'll get through the rest of the TF and be blocked from completion at the last mission. Even if you give the players a warning, that leaves a very narrow subset of players who'd be able to actually be able to solo the TF. (Keep in mind that TFs aren't just lvl50, so if you can solo an AV at lvl50 doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to at lvl20.)
Don't get me wrong Bill, I'm not against soloable TFs, but I don't think the majority of people would pull it off. Now if you wanted to just relax the necessary group members for most** TFs, then by all means.
**Some TFs would be impossible to solo. TFs with simultaneous clicks (Hess) or ones designed to be super difficult (STF) come to mind.
[edit: Oh, and I've said it elsewhere, but the new difficulty slider is win. Can't wait to crank it up for my Tank.]
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And those people that try it solo will have to learn the hard way that they can't solo everything.
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That is an awesome option. No more fill requests. I probably can get even level AVs without going Invincible from what it sounds like. That feature may be my favorite.
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If they let us solo TFs/Trials the smileys will go into overload!
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Let's not get crazy now!
Seriously, though, to the best of my knowledge we won't be changing minimum sizes of TF's/SF's. The minimum sizes stand as "warning labels" to newer players that these missions are more difficult/time consuming/whatever than other missions. It's a small, but important function.
EDIT: By the way, in the meeting where this feature was proposed I specifically mentioned that "Perfect Pain is going to love this change." Glad to see, at least on first glance, I was right!
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I'd like to add a voice in that I strongly want to keep the TF/SF size limitations the same as they are now. These are specific content that's designed for a team of people. I'm not talking about the fact that the content's difficulty was designed for a team, but that in the game world, the mission is of such importance it's only given to a team to ensure its success. I've played many MMORPGs, and I've seen that over time, development teams start to focus so much on the mechanics, they forget the genre they created, and that genre starts suffering. As much as I'd like to try to run some of these TFs solo, I don't want to see the size restrictions changed.
Truth be told, I hope that whatever changes they make to customize the difficulty of your missions is excluded from TFs, SFs, and Trials altogether. These are special missions and I think it will be a detriment if they can be changed making it so that if you join one, you have no idea what to expect.
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That is an awesome option. No more fill requests. I probably can get even level AVs without going Invincible from what it sounds like. That feature may be my favorite.
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If they let us solo TFs/Trials the smileys will go into overload!
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Seriously, though, to the best of my knowledge we won't be changing minimum sizes of TF's/SF's. The minimum sizes stand as "warning labels" to newer players that these missions are more difficult/time consuming/whatever than other missions. It's a small, but important function.
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Understandable.
But I always thought it would be cool to allow a lvl 50 character to go back and solo the TFs (perhaps by unlocking them on a team, or some such thing).
A level 50, top of his profession, able to do things that weaker characters must band together to accomplish. Personally, I think that could be fun.
Est sularis oth Mithas
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EDIT: Sarrate, I hear you, but I don't consider that a problem. No one ever said that everyone should be able to accomplish everything they attempt to do. A solo player right now can run into an AV that they may not be able to handle. Failure happens.
Anyone attempting team content by themselves should know and accept this.
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If they are warned ahead of time, sure... but remember the operative word(s) Castle used was "newer players." Someone who might not have ever fought an AV before. They'd learn, but that's not an ideal way to learn.
Like I said, I'm not against it per se, but I understand the logic behind their stance. (A little bit of devil's advocate, sorry Bill. ) I'd be more interested in doing small team TFs than soloing them.
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As for the multi-glowy example, the devs have removed most of those from the game, haven't they? Perhaps they should remove them all.
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Well, it is team content, so it wouldn't be a problem for a team. 
I'm against dropping the TF reqs. The reasons being given for doing so aren't any different than the reasons we've heard for 5 years.
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