The 5% of the player population that wants AE just for creativity can have AE.
The other 95% will stop doing AE and it will be a wasted issue.
IMO, kill the AE buildings in Galaxy and Atlas.
However, XP = time spent playing the game. You're playing the game when you play an AE mission, therefore you get XP.
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(also how about removing the ae building from Atlas and placing it in galaxy so it can return to being a social gathering place)
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Ummm...ok. (There is one in Galaxy, maybe you should go there and see for yourself)
-Largo
Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian
On the one hand, I can see eliminating exp from the Architect. It would certainly end the powerleveling and make it almost entirely a playground for level 50s. It would still be useful as a creative tool for players, and it would undoubtably still be used to farm salvage and recipes and whatnot.
On the other hand, how do you put the genie back in the bottle? The universe might well explode if exp were removed from Architect missions.
On the other hand, the more I think about it... I'm not against it.
Yes. Yes it does.
"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
Characters
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On the one hand, I can see eliminating exp from the Architect. It would certainly end the powerleveling and make it almost entirely a playground for level 50s.
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Wut?
Playground for level 50's?
Do you read what you post?
You cant remove the XP.. people play because they get xp which will help them level.. and everyone likes leveling..
I think you might see the XP lessened.. the main problem is the auto sk system which allows unlimited ability and access to extreme power leveling... Power levelining will always exist on some level but the extremes it exists on now is a problem...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I also would not object if XP was stripped from AE. I think it'd remove a lot of the rate-griefing as well.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Or maybe an inverse logarithmic sliding scale, lvl 1's get 0 XP and go up to something close to full XP as you approach lvl 50.
Tied to real level of course not any SK/LK.
Or perhaps simply give XP/rewards based on the goals in a mission rather than on defeating enemies in a mission... I'd be very happy with that as well.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I'm not sure what needs to be done, but something needs to be done. From my personal experience, AE is not keeping newbies. Most newbies I am playing with are soloing in other zones and ask for help - in most cases there is no one there to help anymore. My son and three of his friends stopped with WoW, and Red Faction with the release of I14. They got suck in the AE loop and found the game boring, and redundant. They went back to WoW. My son and his friend are typical gamers. They played the multiplayer story line from Halo 3 for months, and continued to play the other multiplayer areas of Halo 3 for a few more months after that. Once Halo 3 got stale, and redundant, they moved on to another game. For me, AE has done this to the game: after the first few weeks of AE, I did my usual with a new toon. Did arcs in Mercy till level 5 then to Port Oakes to get my raptor. Got invited to an AE team (figured why not, quick level to 12 - 14 then get the Kings Mayhem so I can work towards The Invader Accolade). When I flew in a level 20 SoA asked me where did I get my raptor pack. After the initial shock, I explained about Mayhem mishes and The Invader Accolade, and other accolades in the game. He didn't care, just wanted to get to 50, then try some PvP. I do not know if he is still on the game, but I do not see how. After a week of PvP, I would think he had enough since he is somewhat clueless about the toons. On the other side, half the vets I play with do not pay as much because almost everything is AE. Some are just waiting for DC Online and Champions Online.
Personally, I think the fix for AE/MA is:
Why not have a AE/MA where you finish with a contact and you can create a mission for that contact (not your original contact) and for the level range of that contact, and go zone to zone, or within that zone - like regular missions. Something that is more rational or allow for regular teaming. For example, you create a new toon, start with Antonio Nash, do a story or arc. After done, you are introduced to Juan Jimenez. When you finish Juan's arc, it unlocks the MA Arc Option (MA Mission, Create MA, Exchange Tickets). When you click on MA Missions, you can play one that exits for this contact or the lvl. Click Create MA and create a mission with your custom toons, and/or with the vills for that contact, in this case, Skulls and Hellions. Exchange Tickets is the same, but limited to that contacts level. I feel this is rational because it continues what is enjoyable about the game. People still play missions, and have to unlock new contacts to create a new, and/or higher lvl MA mission. Will it eliminate farming and PL'ers. No. But they will be spread out more. And like a taskforce, you can ex down, but you have to be a minimum level to access the contact, or play the MA mish.
You can raise all the flags you want about the innovation of AE. Call it Ground Breaking! But none of that matters if it turns CoX into the Vista of MMORPGs. (It's pretty but serious broke.) Because one thing is for sure, the people who do MMO's are paying close attention to what is happening with AE because it raises flags, and is ground breaking.
Getting rid of exp in MA is not the answer. I personally would like to get rid of or limit PLing all together. One way is to limit SKs to a 10 lvl difference or lower the % of exp income every 10 level difference.
Also, it'd be great to have servers specifically for people who want to gut the game, read the back stories, do all or any story arc, and basically play the game for what it was intended for. Perhaps on these servers if there is excessive PLing, they can be voted off the server. I would transfer all the character from my server to that one in a heartbeat, but I'd like to only pay a small one time fee rather than $9.99 for every character! I have a lot!
I don't know about you all, but I'm getting sick of hearing lvl 45s saying "How the heck did you get that cape?!".
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IMO, kill the AE buildings in Galaxy and Atlas.
However, XP = time spent playing the game. You're playing the game when you play an AE mission, therefore you get XP.
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This.
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
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They got suck in the AE loop and found the game boring, and redundant.
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Right.......and the non-AE portions of the game aren't "boring and redundant." I guess repeating ITFs *or insert any other TF basically* over and over again doesn't constitute redundancy.
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I personally would like to get rid of or limit PLing all together.
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PLing serves a very useful purpose to people who choose to. Trying to restrict another paying customer's ability to enjoy the game is not a good idea.
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Also, it'd be great to have servers specifically for people who want to gut the game, read the back stories, do all or any story arc, and basically play the game for what it was intended for.
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I guess we have different views on "what it was intended for." IMO, I would think it is to provide enjoyment to the customers, since well...they're paying. The game elements that produce enjoyment in players changes over time. It's not static, but rather fluid. *IF* the majority of players feel that "read the back stories" no longer provides enjoyment, then that particular game element ceases to be what the game is intended for.
How about a happy medium? Cut XP by 1/2 in the AE. Also, Make it so that one needs to be of a Zone's level or lower to use a given AE. That way 50s would go to PI and still be able to PL people, and lvl 1s could use the AE in Atlas to play actual content.
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How about a happy medium? Cut XP by 1/2 in the AE. Also, Make it so that one needs to be of a Zone's level or lower to use a given AE. That way 50s would go to PI and still be able to PL people, and lvl 1s could use the AE in Atlas to play actual content.
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That is horribly restrictive. The main question is...*why* should people have to play "actual content" if they don't find it enjoyable.
This smacks of trying to force other players to play the way you want them to. Rather than trying to change everyone else's playstyle, why don't you you bite the bullet and change your playstyle to fit others. If you're not willing to change, how do you expect others to. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong.
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How about a happy medium? Cut XP by 1/2 in the AE. Also, Make it so that one needs to be of a Zone's level or lower to use a given AE. That way 50s would go to PI and still be able to PL people, and lvl 1s could use the AE in Atlas to play actual content.
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That is horribly restrictive. The main question is...*why* should people have to play "actual content" if they don't find it enjoyable.
This smacks of trying to force other players to play the way you want them to. Rather than trying to change everyone else's playstyle, why don't you you bite the bullet and change your playstyle to fit others. If you're not willing to change, how do you expect others to. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong.
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Who says they have to play actual content? People can still run AEs until they are blue in the face... if they are truly doing it only because the regular content bores them, than what differance does it make that they are earning less XP?
So I have to do what you want me to do so that you don't have to change? But it is objectionable that you change so that I can do what I want to do? Its a lose-lose either way.
And it is not me telling people to play like me, but rather me making a suggestion of how the Devs can cajole people into playing the game how they want people to play it (or at least how I presume they would want).
Also, me not liking something does not make it wrong, you are correct. But neither does you doing something make that thing right.
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And it is not me telling people to play like me, but rather me making a suggestion of how the Devs can cajole people into playing the game how they want people to play it (or at least how I presume they would want).
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Actually, you are telling people to play like you. After all, it is you (and many other anti-farmers/PLers) that put forth all of these suggestions, not the other way around. In fact, almost all of the "AE fix" suggestions on the forums have been advocating for limiting farming/PL or the outright elimination of it. I personally haven't ran across any threads where farmers/PLers are actually asking for a further proliferation of such content (I could be wrong of course). In anycase, I don't know about you but all of that to me looks exactly like a group of people trying to impose their will onto other groups of people. Your suggestion may have been more mild and subtle in comparison to some of the other ones but it is still contributing towards that misguided goal none the less.
Back to your original suggestion. What difference would such a drastic reduction in rewards (exp and in consequence, inf) make you ask? All the difference in the world since if AE missions don't yield the best potential rewards, the farmers/PLers wouldn't have been using it in the first place. To cut that rewards in half and to also restrict access would most definately have the effect of turning a good portion of players away from AE, if not the game entirely.
Lastly, the developers are the ones who made this bed and now they have to sleep in it. The farmers/PLers are just making the best of it while the game tools are available to them. Should any changes come about that will drastically alter that landscape (which I very much doubt because farmers/PLers pay subscription too), it will be at the developers discretion. It is not the place of other players to tell the farmers/PLers that they're wrong and how things should be because the *other* group really can't claim that they know any better. It is that very reason which illustrates why MMOs should never be a subscriber based democracy and players should never be allowed to govern.
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It is that very reason which illustrates why MMOs should never be a subscriber based democracy and players should never be allowed to govern.
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Actually, in this case..I'm not too sure about that. *IF* what the AE whiners are saying is true, then that must place them in the minority of players in CoX. If they can't get parties to do "real" content because everyone is in AE, then that means the majority of players wouldn't want to nerf AE.
If you think the removal of XP in the AE removes farming, think again. You suggested the removal of the ticket cap in the process. That only works to promote ticket farming. The tickets can then be used to purchase rare salvage in bulk quanitities to sell on the market. Yes, there's still an ongoing market demand for rare salvage. That in turn promotes the existence of boss farms.
Sure the removal of XP gains will thwart power-levelling, but your main gripe is to do with AE farms as a whole isn't it? In that case XP removal for the AE isn't an effective solution.
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(also how about removing the ae building from Atlas and placing it in galaxy so it can return to being a social gathering place)
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From what I've seen recently, social stuff still happens in AP. Costume Contests are still being held, SG recruiting is still being advertised and people still stand under Atlas's statue chit-chatting.
It's easy to disregard the AE LFT broadcasts but people choose to be annoyed by them.
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And it is not me telling people to play like me, but rather me making a suggestion of how the Devs can cajole people into playing the game how they want people to play it (or at least how I presume they would want).
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Actually, you are telling people to play like you. After all, it is you (and many other anti-farmers) that put forth all of these farm curbing suggestions, not the other way around. In fact, almost all of the "AE fix" suggestions on the forums have been advocating for limiting farming or the outright elimination of it. I personally haven't ran across any threads where farmers are actually asking for a further proliferation of farmable content (I could be wrong of course). In anycase, I don't know about you but all of that to me looks exactly like a group of people trying to impose their will onto another group of people. Your suggestion may have been more mild and subtle in comparison to some of the other ones but it is still contributing towards that misguided goal none the less.
Back to your original suggestion. What difference would such a drastic reduction in rewards make you ask? All the difference in the world since if AE missions don't yield the best potential rewards, the farmers wouldn't have been farming it in the first place. To cut that reward in half and to also restrict access would most definately have the effect of turning a good portion of the farmers away from AE, if not the game entirely.
Lastly, the developers are the ones who made this bed and now they have to sleep in it. The farmers are just making the best of it while the game tools are available to them. Should any changes come about that will drastically alter the farming landscape (which I very much doubt because farmers pay subscription too), it will be at the developers discretion. It is not the place of other players to tell the farmers that they're wrong and how things should be because the anti-farmers really can't claim that they know any better. It is that very reason which illustrates why MMOs should never be a subscriber based democracy and players should never be allowed to govern.
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Farming has been discouraged basically since the game started, and has been sytematically nerfed nearly every patch and or issue, any other opinion is wishful thinking.
MA farming was specifically verboten basically from conception, regardless of how fast or how well they have curbed it since.
In spite of the above, farmers are spoiled rotten on MA farms, they are fat with loot sunning themselves like gorged lions on the savannah, perhaps even feeling a bit entitled now based on your post above, but if the MA farming was nerfed into oblivion they can go right back to the 'good' old fashioned farms in PI or wherever in a heartbeat. Because in my opinion, if they enjoyed the game before, there is no reason they wouldn't enjoy the game after a series of MA nerfs to rewards.
Regarding your 'worries' about people "trying to impose their will" and your last paragraph, it should be plainly obvious that players have no 'vote' in what the devs choose to do with the game, all we can do is voice an opinion, and i'm pretty sure that the bulk of those never get read by a dev anyways, so anything I or anyone says here has about as much affect on you as me 'telling you' to jump in a lake.
That being said, I have no doubt at all, that step by step, AE farming will be nerfed, not only because of previous history though, in the simplest sense gross farming is bad for the long term future of the game, the devs know this, its an intrinsic element of the chosen business model.
Again, any other opinion regarding 'gross' farming is wishful thinking.
I shouldn't have to say this next part, but here we are, it again should be plainly obvious that I am not claiming that farming will be eradicated from the face of the earth, that would be wishful thinking on my part, I have attempted to characterize it as gross farming or perhaps outlier/exploit farming if you wish. There will always be farming in MMO's, heck I farm now and again for all kinds of reasons. But this MA farming is like perma WL double XP on steriods and its game breaking if it goes on too long.
As I've pointed out previously. XP in the MA is ALREADY lessened over traditional storyline content. No mission/arc completion bonuses.
Sure, not a HUGE chunk of XP, but you're already running for less.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I also would not object if XP was stripped from AE. I think it'd remove a lot of the rate-griefing as well.
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?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Wait...
?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Would you please explain the logic behind this? How would XP removal strip ratings griefing?
OTHER than by turning the MA into a ghost town?
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Actually, in this case..I'm not too sure about that. *IF* what the AE whiners are saying is true, then that must place them in the minority of players in CoX. If they can't get parties to do "real" content because everyone is in AE, then that means the majority of players wouldn't want to nerf AE.
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The 'everyone is doing it, so it must be true' fallacy aside.
If we assume that 'everyone' knows that AE farms especially exploitative farms are not allowed, its more likely that the average player especially new ones in AE are engaging in human herding/crowd behaviour and not an actual considered choice.
There are many examples of this on every level, a few angles of the ~1999-present housing bubble are interesting, and there is lots of reading on the subject otherwise, but this Ted talk is one of my favorites:
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/da...oral_code.html
The original purpose of AE was for players to test out their creative skills not for the game to be strictly dedicated to leveling. Young heroes fresh to the game are bombarded with broadcasts seeking ae pl's and lv7 warshades looking for 54 boss farms. But enough of that complaining its been said many times before.
What purpose does XP have in AE. Correct me if I'm wrong but it not this supposed to be some sort of virtual game for heroes on their downtime? Games are to there to give you rewards no progress you in level. What would be the benefits/disadvantage or removing XP fully from AE but increasing the other rewards? Leave influence where it is, remove the ticket cap, add more items to the AE "store" for lower level players, and give some variety- like costume parts (new players love wings). Tickets are a great way to buy the grossly overpriced salvage so players wont completly abandoned it. It will will just see less lowbies looking for an easy level and more players looking to gain the other benefits.
(also how about removing the ae building from Atlas and placing it in galaxy so it can return to being a social gathering place)