[ QUOTE ]
I am referring too another thread like this repeating the same ideas already shown to be no good over a month ago.
What are you referring too?
[/ QUOTE ]
Another person saying they see another thread about an important issue bothering a great number of people.
LDX, I don't think is is accurate or fair to give the devs a pass on not making MA more robust with the extra's you are talking about.
I really don't think them waiting to fix the KNOWN exploits, then scapgoating the players is something the players should now turn to each other fingers with pointing.
The reason we don't have a more robust feature laiden MA is because the devs have not been as creative as they should be in including those things. It has nothing to do with having to spend time fixing KNOWN exploits. The two are not related.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
What important issue would that be?
Someone worried about the xp/inf someone else is getting in MA? The feature designed to give xp/inf from 1-50 as advertised?
That is not an important issue it is a personal problem that some need to get over.
Xp/inf in AE is not going anywhere and anyone asking for that needs to just turn off their xp/inf and S T F U about everyone else's.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Allow me to quote and respond according to what's important to me first:
[ QUOTE ]
The reason we don't have a more robust feature laiden MA is because the devs have not been as creative as they should be in including those things. It has nothing to do with having to spend time fixing KNOWN exploits. The two are not related.
[/ QUOTE ]
Being a developer and working under a management that has to worry about meeting deadlines, I know full well that sometimes creative thinking, and the addition of key-features can be postponed (if not outright thrown out the window) because there are other policies that management wants enforced.
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't think them waiting to fix the KNOWN exploits, then scapegoating the players is something the players should now turn to each other fingers with pointing.
[/ QUOTE ]
To this, I wish to respond with another quote I've seen in Timeshadow's signature:
[ QUOTE ]
On the Mission Architect: Not everyone reads the forums, after all, and not everyone might realize that the Rikti Communication Officers were out of whack. But you'd have to be incredibly, pants-on-head retarded not to know that leveling at that speed was broken ~Justaris
[/ QUOTE ]
So, if I'm to believe that Timeshadow has quoted Justaris faithfully and accurately, and I am to believe Justaris, all those who exploited AE (and especially those who still are) are either pants-on-head retarded, or knowingly using exploits against the Devs wishes.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think is is accurate or fair to give the devs a pass on not making MA more robust with the extra's you are talking about.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry if it looks like the player-base is the only group I seem to be holding responsible for this situation. Of course the Devs are to be blamed for this, first and foremost. However, just as the Devs have to own up to their failures and fix them, we as players have a moral obligation to ourselves as a community to uphold our very own standards and if those standards include wanting and encouraging Developer-created features and content, at the very least, we should follow our end of the agreement we sign when we click that "I agree" button.
My apologies to all of you who think that just because you pay your subscription fees this means you can play the game Your way. Paying the subscription fees means you can play the game your way under the confinements put in-game by the Devs, and also... we are always warned, "Online Experience May Change", well, it's changing as we speak, for better and worse.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
What important issue would that be?
Someone worried about the xp/inf someone else is getting in MA? The feature designed to give xp/inf from 1-50 as advertised?
That is not an important issue it is a personal problem that some need to get over.
Xp/inf in AE is not going anywhere and anyone asking for that needs to just turn off their xp/inf and S T F U about everyone else's.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, way to generalize it to support your side of the debate. Please read my posts before you thrash out. Before you know it, you'll see that I've agreed with you in my previous post and my issue is different than the one you thought I was disagreeing with.
I am wondering after reading that if you actually understood what I was saying, but you know mate in the end it really does not matter. Cheers.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
QR
Yes it does.
The devs want you to be able to lvl from 1-50 in the AE.
The exploits that gives 2434343 times xp (I'm exaggerating) should be dealth with.
But again the devs intended it to be 100% ok for you to stay in the MA from 1-50.
Anyone who doesn't like that needs to get over it. Xp in the AE is not going away.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I can agree with your last statement.
I want PL control. I want exp to stay in MAs. Someone gaining more exp/ influence/ salvage than I is a matter of who has more time than who. That's part of playing the game, and I extremely recommend anyone to get as much of that stuff as they want.
(QR)
So, to summarize:
- To meet the end-goal that AE should allow players to level-up and grow a character from Lv1 to Lv50, AE needs XP.
- Exploits and broken NPC's/powers should be fixed a.s.a.p.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
I can agree with your last statement.
I want PL control. I want exp to stay in MAs. Someone gaining more exp/ influence/ salvage than I is a matter of who has more time than who. That's part of playing the game, and I extremely recommend anyone to get as much of that stuff as they want.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exploit control and pl control mechanisms ARE. IN. THERE.
Find a farm, report it. EVENTUALLY customer service will review it, and if THEY (not any freaking keyboard warriors on these fourms) feel it's a farm, it will be nuked from orbit.
That's what most folks don't get. It's the devs, CS and NSCOFT management that determine what is and isn't acceptable. Period.
If anyone doesn't like that they can unsubscribe. Nothing wrong with not subbing to a game who's policies you don't like
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Seeing your point of views, it isn't realistic to see a big control or SK cap or anything to control PLing (to fix this MA question). As I said before, I think it'd be great to have dedicated to servers for people who would rather not PL. Like on Everquest, there are specific servers for people who want to Role Play and from what I hear, they're on WoW too. So it wouldn't hurt to have a couple servers dedicated to basically the same thing on CoH.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can agree with your last statement.
I want PL control. I want exp to stay in MAs. Someone gaining more exp/ influence/ salvage than I is a matter of who has more time than who. That's part of playing the game, and I extremely recommend anyone to get as much of that stuff as they want.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exploit control and pl control mechanisms ARE. IN. THERE.
Find a farm, report it. EVENTUALLY customer service will review it, and if THEY (not any freaking keyboard warriors on these fourms) feel it's a farm, it will be nuked from orbit.
That's what most folks don't get. It's the devs, CS and NSCOFT management that determine what is and isn't acceptable. Period.
If anyone doesn't like that they can unsubscribe. Nothing wrong with not subbing to a game who's policies you don't like
[/ QUOTE ]
lol, well that's good to know. I'll most likely use that tool.
Edit: I WILL use that tool.
[ QUOTE ]
(QR)
So, to summarize:
- To meet the end-goal that AE should allow players to level-up and grow a character from Lv1 to Lv50, AE needs XP.
- Exploits and broken NPC's/powers should be fixed a.s.a.p.
[/ QUOTE ]
YES. Which has been going on all along.
There have been numerous farms that have been nuked from orbit since the AE has been in existence. And I'm not just talking about obviously exploitative stuff like the comm officers.
General Comment:
Report a farm and it will be dealth with. Nothing other than that can be done by players.
Well there is something else you can do if you don't like that folks are doing nothing but playing in the MA: Vote with your wallet. Nothing at all wrong with that.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
Seeing your point of views, it isn't realistic to see a big control or SK cap or anything to control PLing (to fix this MA question). As I said before, I think it'd be great to have dedicated to servers for people who would rather not PL. Like on Everquest, there are specific servers for people who want to Role Play and from what I hear, they're on WoW too. So it wouldn't hurt to have a couple servers dedicated to basically the same thing on CoH.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not before the pvpers got theirs. Long before your request THEY have been asking for a pvp server for YEARS.
EDIT: Add Hardcore RPERs to that list.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
The only way to stop power-leveling in CoX, as far as I understand it, is to ensure that if someone's character isn't fighting (i.e. door-sitting) that character gets nothing for the fight. I doubt anyone would play on a Server that has this as a core-rule.
The only way to stop farming, is to introduce diminishing returns and timers on tasks, much like TF Merits have. Again, I doubt anyone would play on a Server that has this as a core-rule, either.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
Report a farm and it will be dealt with. Nothing other than that can be done by players.
[/ QUOTE ]
Already doing so, whenever I find one that isn't a simple recreation of stuff we already have in-game. However, due to boredom, I joined a new SG, made new characters... played through content... you know, the usual... and pretty much ignored AE lately.
[ QUOTE ]
Well there is something else you can do if you don't like that folks are doing nothing but playing in the MA: Vote with your wallet. Nothing at all wrong with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed, I recently returned from a short break in which I played lots of single-player stuff...
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
Farming has been discouraged basically since the game started, and has been sytematically nerfed nearly every patch and or issue, any other opinion is wishful thinking.
[/ QUOTE ]
These days, MMO developers discouraging farming is just the result of knee jerk reactions passed down from the days of EQ. Developers may say one thing but actually carrying it out is an entirely different story. Through out the decade long history of MMO, developers haven't exactly tried to eliminate farming entirely. They know it is unfeasible to try something so drastically without alienating a lot of customers so they tolerate it to a certain degree.
[ QUOTE ]
MA farming was specifically verboten basically from conception, regardless of how fast or how well they have curbed it since.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry but that means little. One of the main reasons why many other instance based MMOs did not introduce player created content (even though they had the capability to do just that) into their game was primarily due to the farming/enforcement issue. I know that for a fact and straight from the mouths of several game developers that I know here in the bay area. It's an impossibility to trust the players to not create farm content and even harder to monitor them. I certainly hope Paragon Studio developers weren't really naive enough to think that those rules don't somehow apply to them. You know what those disclaimers were really meant for? It's so the developers will have an excuse later to modify the tool at their discretion. Pre-emptive disclaimer is a common enough practice in the business world but it generally carries little weight.
[ QUOTE ]
perhaps even feeling a bit entitled now based on your post above.
[/ QUOTE ]
Farmers don't feel entitled to anything. Farming as a activity is very reactionary. As you said, farmers go where the the best risk to reward ratio is whether it is AE or regular missions. That certainly does not convey a message of entitlement in any shape or form.
[ QUOTE ]
Regarding your 'worries' about people "trying to impose their will" and your last paragraph, it should be plainly obvious that players have no 'vote' in what the devs choose to do with the game, all we can do is voice an opinion, and i'm pretty sure that the bulk of those never get read by a dev anyways, so anything I or anyone says here has about as much affect on you as me 'telling you' to jump in a lake.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait, if anti-farmers really aren't attempting to influence the developers, why are they so insistant in posting a bizillion "AE fix suggestions"? I understand that people like hearing themselves talk but isn't this a bit ridiculous? I suspect that the reason why a lot of anti-farmers post so much is because they *do* hope the developers will read it and falsely believe that the majority of the players are in favor of getting rid of AE farming.
You also forget that anti-farmers don't exist only on the forums, they often try to force their beliefs onto others in-game. Not a day goes by do I not see some anti-farmers spouting their beliefs in Cap or Mercy.
[ QUOTE ]
That being said, I have no doubt at all, that step by step, AE farming will be nerfed, not only because of previous history though,
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't doubt this part at all. I think people are just disagreeing on how *much* AE should be nerfed. Some people want to see the system gutted to the point where no farmer (or anyone who has a remote interest in exp/reward) will ever frequent it. Others just want to bring it down a notch or two but still rewarding none the less. I'm more in the line with the second option and I suspect the developers feel the same way too. Their business is for profit and it's generally not a smart move to alienate a large portion of their revenue source.
[ QUOTE ]
in the simplest sense gross farming is bad for the long term future of the game, the devs know this, its an intrinsic element of the chosen business model.
[/ QUOTE ]
How could you possibly know that farming is bad for the game? This portion of your post sounds a lot like the dooooom predictions people have been making since the days of UO. Name one MMO that was literally brought down by farming or PLing. I personally can't think of any. In fact, the holy trinity of farming (EQ/WoW/FFXI) are still around. On the other hand, right off the top of my head I can name 5 or 6 other MMOs brought down by flawed game design or concept. In essence, "farming is bad for the game" is little more than a myth perpetrated by people who are on the opposite end of the ideology specturm.
[ QUOTE ]
The only way to stop power-leveling in CoX, as far as I understand it, is to ensure that if someone's character isn't fighting (i.e. door-sitting) that character gets nothing for the fight. I doubt anyone would play on a Server that has this as a core-rule.
The only way to stop farming, is to introduce diminishing returns and timers on tasks, much like TF Merits have. Again, I doubt anyone would play on a Server that has this as a core-rule, either.
[/ QUOTE ]
Firstly, there are not door sitters in ANY of the MA farms I've been on, so that would do jack shite to the MA farming. In those EVERYONE is required to fight or they usually get kicked. In fact the old PI farming was WORSE for breeding newbs, as it was mostly lowbies door sitting next to lvl 46s while a SOLE fire/kin or dual fire/kin ran the map. With no one else fighting usually. People would PAY high level fire/kins (fire/psi doms or brutes rediside) to DOORSIT. Ask to be paid to do that in an MA farm team today and you'll get laughed at and ridiculed.
That's what most folks don't get about MA farm teams.
MA hardcore plers would MOST certainly play on a server that enforced that rules. So that's a non starter to stop MA pling. Fire/kin teams could easily get around that also: Just have everyone sked and fight. So again a non starter to stop pling.
As to your seocnd point: Easy to get around, just switch from MA mission to MA mission. It only works on tfs because there are a LIMITED number of tfs. Run them all in one day, and you have to wait the next day for full rewards. There are no limits on the number of MA missions you can have. Soultion is a non starter as well.
People would play on that server, cause it's such a non solution that it wouldn't even matter.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Report a farm and it will be dealt with. Nothing other than that can be done by players.
[/ QUOTE ]
Already doing so, whenever I find one that isn't a simple recreation of stuff we already have in-game. However, due to boredom, I joined a new SG, made new characters... played through content... you know, the usual... and pretty much ignored AE lately.
[ QUOTE ]
Well there is something else you can do if you don't like that folks are doing nothing but playing in the MA: Vote with your wallet. Nothing at all wrong with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed, I recently returned from a short break in which I played lots of single-player stuff...
[/ QUOTE ]
Good for you. If more folks did like you did there would be peace in the world. (Or at least on the forums 
)
With all the people [censored] about MA this or that, I'm surprised I haven't seen a SG created here on the forums (hell with how many folks there are you could have a coalition LOL) formed of folks who DON'T want to do any MA missions.
Call it the CANNON SG.
Plan out to run story content from 1-50 on different servers each week.
Hell folks used to do this back in the day. I'm surprised no one is doing it now.
EDIT: In fact tell you what, if it's on INFINITY, VIRTUE or FREEDOM, I'll JOIN some toons to the sgs. Just tell me what times in the evening and weekends you'll meet and I'll run with you for some of my (limited) game time.
And yes think of this as a CHALLENGE to ALL who say the can't find teams cause of MA/AE. Put your money where your mouth is. I have plenty of support toons on those three servers.
I'd also be willing to ROLL lowbies on those servers if we are running from 1-50.
Have at it.
EDIT 2: Just direct me to the thread where I can post the toon names.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I lead an All-Kheldian SG on Infinity, it's called the Umbra Illuminati and we're always looking for more Kheldians. We sometimes do AE missions, but that tenancy has subsided greatly as of late.
I've seen a thread about a new Liberty SG (I don't remember their name though) that is plainly against AE content whatsoever, so I will not be surprised if this increases as a trend.
Personally, I'm not against AE, or farming AE missions, as long as they're not missions that were intentionally created to min/max. I'm just against the min/maxing which leaves me with a boring combat-only mission.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I covered most if not all of your points in my long post on page 5, but its still basically more wishful thinking and rationalizing.
Again, I completely realize that farming will never go away, thats not the point. Nor does removing XP in any way shape or form from MA make sense, thats a ridiculous suggestion as well.
But MA will be nerfed, its just a matter of when, how and by how much.
[ QUOTE ]
In essence, "farming is bad for the game" is little more than a myth perpetrated by people who are on the opposite end of the ideology specturm.
[/ QUOTE ]
It has far less perhaps zero to do with ideology than long term sustainability, the chosen business model demands that rewards/time be monitored/restricted, and anything that skews that ratio will be reigned in.
Sometimes with a bat.
[ QUOTE ]
In essence, "farming is bad for the game" is little more than a myth perpetrated by people who are on the opposite end of the ideology spectrum.
[/ QUOTE ]
In essence, MMO games are grinding games where players engage in roughly the same activities from level 1 to the level-cap. This of course will encourage people to attempt to find the fastest way to maximize their character on every possible facet, be it build, gear and skills. This is unavoidable, but that doesn't mean the Developers of any MMO should simply stop trying to find ways to allow people to create their own content and at the same time develop counter-measures so that the content isn't exploitable.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
I lead an All-Kheldian SG on Infinity, it's called the Umbra Illuminati and we're always looking for more Kheldians. We sometimes do AE missions, but that tenancy has subsided greatly as of late.
I've seen a thread about a new Liberty SG (I don't remember their name though) that is plainly against AE content whatsoever, so I will not be surprised if this increases as a trend.
Personally, I'm not against AE, or farming AE missions, as long as they're not missions that were intentionally created to min/max. I'm just against the min/maxing which leaves me with a boring combat-only mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Depends on what you mean by min/max.
If a team goes in to fight a group of lvl 54 archvillains and builds the team to do that, I see nothing wrong with that personally.
Teaming, debuffs, and buffs have always been used in that way with how this game works. Hell we have a DEV-created TF in which you can FIGHT a team of the strongest AVs and Archheroes all at once. And folks have no issue in building a min/max team to take on THOSE scenarios. In fact at one time those AVs WERE also lvl 54. Many complained when they were toned down because they felt it was reducing challenge from the game.
Now if you make a map of lts or minions with no defense that's a different story.
Not that I personally care what anyone does. That's the dev's job. Not any players.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
I covered most if not all of your points in my long post on page 5, but its still basically more wishful thinking and rationalizing.
Again, I completely realize that farming will never go away, thats not the point. Nor does removing XP in any way shape or form from MA make sense, thats a ridiculous suggestion as well.
But MA will be nerfed, its just a matter of when, how and by how much.
[ QUOTE ]
In essence, "farming is bad for the game" is little more than a myth perpetrated by people who are on the opposite end of the ideology specturm.
[/ QUOTE ]
It has far less perhaps zero to do with ideology than long term sustainability, the chosen business model demands that rewards/time be monitored/restricted, and anything that skews that ratio will be reigned in.
Sometimes with a bat.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except that the devs already are taking steps to reduce exploits. Mobs that give too much xp will be continue to be removed. And reported farms removed, IF the devs see them as farms.
Nothing other than that needs to be done, since REGULAR MA misisons currently give LESS xp than regular ones for one reason: NO MISSION BONUS. Notice I said REGULAR MA misisons.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
Destroying the xp wont change that, buddy. Most people are [censored], uncreative writers. No amount of limits on xp is going to suddenly make them shakespeare.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm well aware of that which is why I said already that I know it's not going to happen, you probably missed that part of my post. Sorry.
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati