Any punishments of purchasing from RMT?
By
BayBlast,
Posted on: 2009-06-06 11:29 in Player Questions
Yep. They'll wail on you with the Ban Hammah.
@Mechaniker
Official Old Angry German Guy of CoV.
My Characters: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=247787
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....I can't believe this is a serious question....
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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City of Heroes Rules of Conduct
8. You may not market, promote, advertise, or solicit within the City of Heroes game or on the official City of Heroes website.
10. You may not advertise the intent to or commit the act of buying, selling, trading, sharing, or transferring access to any City of Heroes account.
11. You may not advertise the intent to or commit the act of buying or selling items for cash or trading items from one server to another.
From the EULA:
Termination
(a) The Publisher reserves the right to suspend or terminate this Agreement (including the CustomerÂ’s Software license and Account) immediately and without notice if the Customer breaches this Agreement . . . any player activity whatsoever which is, in the PublisherÂ’s sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game as described in the Rules of Conduct.
Edit:
According to the forum rules you aren't even supposed to talk about it here.
9. You may not post advertisements.
Advertising on these forums are discouraged, specifically posts that advertise a transaction for real money or any post that discusses an action prohibited by the User Agreement are not allowed.
And, of course, there's the chance they'll just take your credit card number and abuse it (the RMTers, not NCSoft/PS,) use your account to spam (another reason to get banned, not to mention getting on ignore lists across the game) and more.
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Yep. They'll wail on you with the Ban Hammah.
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... and as true as this is, I can't help but chuckle at the image of someone being beat up with a rabbi.
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And, of course, there's the chance they'll just take your credit card number and abuse it (the RMTers, not NCSoft/PS,) use your account to spam (another reason to get banned, not to mention getting on ignore lists across the game) and more.
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Yep. They'll wail on you with the Ban Hammah.
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... and as true as this is, I can't help but chuckle at the image of someone being beat up with a rabbi.
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Cleric Melee/Cleric Armor.
Basically a regraphiced stone set.
@Mechaniker
Official Old Angry German Guy of CoV.
My Characters: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=247787
My take on this is for reasons only you know you have already joined those that have used these services.
Let me be perfectly clear about this, I think the RMT'ers need to be #1 on the hit list for any negative actions taken for rules violations, exploits and general griefing of paying customers.
Having said that I am nothing more than a realist and the reality is these people have a certain level of carte blance or are the smartest people on earth since the devs cannot get rid of them or even slow them down. They are here for a reason which to me is obviously some level of demand.
The single time since lewt was introduced that they "almost" went away spam included was when AE first broke. The reality is demand went down. When AE exploits were closed spam returned "with adjusted down prices" but its back because demand is back.
So while "I" personally think its not the best of moves to make IMHO, it is something that people on an individual level in some economic positive numbers use these services regularly. 
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Having said that I am nothing more than a realist and the reality is these people have a certain level of carte blance or are the smartest people on earth since the devs cannot get rid of them or even slow them down. They are here for a reason which to me is obviously some level of demand.
[/ QUOTE ] The main issue is jurisdiction. THey are not in the USA, so prosecution costs are extremely prohibitive.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I understand what you are saying, but there are MANY remedies to international offenses just like this. The entertainment industry faces this and more daily and has developed a fairly good system to deal with international violations like this.
I do understand what you are saying but there IS a remedy what is actually need more than moneyin this case is will. The lack of will is the issue that undercuts elmininating this kind of thing.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Honestly, I think the biggest problem is the justice system lacks understanding when it comes to internet-related matters. There have been tons of bad rulings that illustrate this very well. A lot of powerful judges are simply ignorant when it comes to technology. Thus, I think most of the MMO companies would rather combat the problems on their own terms rather than risk a bad precedent being set in court allowing the RMTers free reign.
( Leech: How do you do the changing avatars? 
)
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
I order to prosecute them, the Chinese (or Korean, or wherever they're based) government needs to cooperate. To date, they never have.
The companies owning the RMT also deny that the RMT is even taking place, so there would have to be an investigation to prove the allegations.
Blizzard did successfully sue a US-based RMT company, so that's at least some precedent when something gets into court, if ever.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
There is a difference between the resources available to the MPAA & RIAA (after all, they sue grandma for half a mil every other week or so over mp3 pirating of a song or two, remember? :P) and NCSoft. Furthermore, I do believe most of the overseas efforts of those two 'AAs is concentrated on piracy through physical media - vs. the wholly digital format of RMT.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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I understand what you are saying, but there are MANY remedies to international offenses just like this. The entertainment industry faces this and more daily and has developed a fairly good system to deal with international violations like this.
I do understand what you are saying but there IS a remedy what is actually need more than moneyin this case is will. The lack of will is the issue that undercuts elmininating this kind of thing.
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Don't forget, however, the RIAA and such have actual *laws* behind what they're going after them for (the DMCA and such.) NCSoft would be trying to take RMTers to court for breaking an EULA.
How much do RMTers fear an EULA? While not trying to godwin the thread... Their reaction to an EULA reading would be similar to this.
Well it could be those things, but there are signs that that not the entire story. However, I do understand what you are saying and its probably better for most people to feel that it ends there anyway.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I understand what you are saying, but there are MANY remedies to international offenses just like this. The entertainment industry faces this and more daily and has developed a fairly good system to deal with international violations like this.
I do understand what you are saying but there IS a remedy what is actually need more than moneyin this case is will. The lack of will is the issue that undercuts elmininating this kind of thing.
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Don't forget, however, the RIAA and such have actual *laws* behind what they're going after them for (the DMCA and such.) NCSoft would be trying to take RMTers to court for breaking an EULA.
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Oooh, forgot that one.
Go Go Gadget International Copyright law!!!
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
I understand what you are saying, but there are MANY remedies to international offenses just like this. The entertainment industry faces this and more daily and has developed a fairly good system to deal with international violations like this.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're joking, right? If you ever meet Steve Ballmer, ask him what he thinks of the software 'industry' in China.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Thing is, there's really nothing to prosecute. RMT doesn't break any laws, only EULAs, so accounts could be banned, but thats about it. IIRC the blizzard suit wasn't really about gold trading per se, it was about spam. Keep in mind, that this was against a US firm, so US anti-spam laws would apply. i don't know that the same could be said of a foreign RMT outfit. Odds are they operate from a country with no laws concerning spam.
As far as comparisons with RIAA, MPAA, etc, keep in mind that there are international agreements governing intellectual property. I don't know that there are any such agreements that are related to the issues involved in RMT.
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Thing is, there's really nothing to prosecute. RMT doesn't break any laws, only EULAs, so accounts could be banned, but thats about it. IIRC the blizzard suit wasn't really about gold trading per se, it was about spam. Keep in mind, that this was against a US firm, so US anti-spam laws would apply. i don't know that the same could be said of a foreign RMT outfit. Odds are they operate from a country with no laws concerning spam.
As far as comparisons with RIAA, MPAA, etc, keep in mind that there are international agreements governing intellectual property. I don't know that there are any such agreements that are related to the issues involved in RMT.
[/ QUOTE ] I'm willing to bet that if RMT gets out of hand governments would get involved by taxing people. The last thing any of us want is our in game currency to have any kind of significant real world value.
If you're caught using RMT, you'll be banned, and that's if the RMTers haven't used up your account to do their spamming and farming first. And you know how they keep getting new accounts to use to spam? Credit card fraud.
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I understand what you are saying, but there are MANY remedies to international offenses just like this. The entertainment industry faces this and more daily and has developed a fairly good system to deal with international violations like this.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're joking, right? If you ever meet Steve Ballmer, ask him what he thinks of the software 'industry' in China.
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I laughed too. Last year the estimate for losses of the Motion Picture Industry due to counterfeiting and pirated movies was more than $6 billion. Most of the counterfeits came from China. I'd hate to see what a bad system to deal with this would be like.
I doubt the RIAA fares any better over there.
"Mastermind Pets operate...differently, and aren't as easily fixed. Especially the Bruiser. I want to take him out behind the woodshed and pull an "old yeller" on him at times." - Castle
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[ QUOTE ]
I understand what you are saying, but there are MANY remedies to international offenses just like this. The entertainment industry faces this and more daily and has developed a fairly good system to deal with international violations like this.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're joking, right? If you ever meet Steve Ballmer, ask him what he thinks of the software 'industry' in China.
[/ QUOTE ]
I laughed too. Last year the estimate for losses of the Motion Picture Industry due to counterfeiting and pirated movies was more than $6 billion. Most of the counterfeits came from China. I'd hate to see what a bad system to deal with this would be like.
I doubt the RIAA fares any better over there.
[/ QUOTE ] I would be wary of those numbers. Industry numbers sometimes count every instance of a pirated movie or song as a lost sale. When the simple fact is that isn't true.
This is what the Ban Hammer looks like:
http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs17/f/20...er_by_SrnX.jpg
This is you after the Ban Hammer makes contact with your subscription:
http://talkingheadtv.com/wp-content/...060727_ssv.jpg
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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Thing is, there's really nothing to prosecute. RMT doesn't break any laws
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Well, you know, except for all those pesky copyright and trademark laws...
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As far as comparisons with RIAA, MPAA, etc, keep in mind that there are international agreements governing intellectual property. I don't know that there are any such agreements that are related to the issues involved in RMT.
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But the currency/items/characters being sold via RMT -are- intellectual property.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Thing is, there's really nothing to prosecute. RMT doesn't break any laws, only EULAs, so accounts could be banned, but thats about it. IIRC the blizzard suit wasn't really about gold trading per se, it was about spam. Keep in mind, that this was against a US firm, so US anti-spam laws would apply. i don't know that the same could be said of a foreign RMT outfit. Odds are they operate from a country with no laws concerning spam.
As far as comparisons with RIAA, MPAA, etc, keep in mind that there are international agreements governing intellectual property. I don't know that there are any such agreements that are related to the issues involved in RMT.
[/ QUOTE ] I'm willing to bet that if RMT gets out of hand governments would get involved by taxing people. The last thing any of us want is our in game currency to have any kind of significant real world value.
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Only trouble is how do you tax criminal activities? RMT sites aren't being run by legitimate businesses.
Exactly. RMTs are generally ways for people to get easy money, or among the lower-end activities of criminal syndicates. It'd be up to police to stop them, not lawyers.
I don't need infamy/influence. I have 6 (5 actually, but my latest is 47) level 50s. I just wanted to get that out of the way so I can avoid weird replies.
Are there are repercussions for purchasing infamy or influence from RMT (Real Money Traders) that advertise online and on ingame emails?
I do understand that they are not trustworthy people and steal accounts/credit cards/anything from people when given the chance to do so. Can you get suspended or warnings or anything at all from paying these people to help or play your accounts (play as in powerleveling for you?)
Maybe the EULA brick wall of text says something about it? I dunno about how you'd like to come across it, but in... (Here I go with comparing again, lulz)... In Final Fantasy XI Online, there was a crazed inflation caused by RMT purchasing and it reached the point where if you were caught purchasing or admitted to purchasing from RMT that bannings/suspensions were soon to follow for that account.
Is there anything like that going on now? Someone asked in a channel "Who wants to admit to buying influence from emails?" today and it had me questioning his reason. Of course no one spoke up, but... Really? If NCSoft hasn't started this ideology of punishment for purchasing from RMT, it isn't too late to start.
Any thoughts/answers? I haven't even seen any warnings about buying influence/infamy from these people on the log-in screen (Where it should be...) to assume that others are being warned from possible credit card theft.
With new players who farm in AE they can get to 50 in less then a week and lack the tons of cash I had when I hit 50 pre-issue 14. This leaves a window of potential buyers.