The LRSF is broken. Plain and simple.
By
AlienOne,
Posted on: 2009-05-24 19:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Answer my two questions above.
Was the LRSF balanced for a Pentad when it was first released?
Is the LRSF balanced for a Pentad now that the Phalanx are level 53?
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The most I'll budge is maybe reducing the AV lvls down one. Other than that it's fine. I should think that the STF should be bumped up in diff.
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Agreed. Also, why does the ITF give more merits, but takes about the same time as the LRSF and is far easier? Can we please bump up the merit reward to 30? At least?
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The most I'll budge is maybe reducing the AV lvls down one. Other than that it's fine. I should think that the STF should be bumped up in diff.
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Agreed. Also, why does the ITF give more merits, but takes about the same time as the LRSF and is far easier? Can we please bump up the merit reward to 30? At least?
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Completion times.
On average, people complete the LRSF more quickly than they do the ITF. Heck, I know on some servers people do Master LRSF runs in under an hour and regular LRSF runs in 45 minutes or so.
They have to take this into account when increasing rewards. Make the rewards higher, more people speed run and more people try it 'the regular way'. Some people trying 'the regular way' find themselves unable to complete, which doesn't register on completion times, sadly.
In all fairness, LRSF should be in the 30-35 Merit range. The problem is half the TF is fairly easy (Tech issues aside) and the last mission is a challenge far beyond the first few missions (Vindicators can get though for some groups), thus skewing the times and so on.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
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Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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Was the LRSF balanced for a Pentad when it was first released?
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What does it matter? Was an Invul Tank tough for Bobcat to kill when it had 100% Lethal Res?
Past is past. Would the AV change that got removed have made it tougher? Would it have been easier without ED? Have IOs changed it?
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Is the LRSF balanced for a Pentad now that the Phalanx are level 53?
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Pentad? As in just 5 players? Or a team of 8 that features 1 of each AT and 3 additional players?
If it's the first, then if you had the right 5 players on the right 5 toons, yes, it could be done. I'm not sure if "balanced" is the right term, though, since it requires 8 characters to start.
If it's the second, with ease. I can't speak for the Devs, since they know their specific balancing, but I can tell you that a team that contained one of each AT could take down the LRSF with ease, if all players were decent players and the powersets complimented each other at all (if everyone had the weakest offensive set, then that would obviously inhibit their ability to beat it, just like if a similar thing occurred Heroside).
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. Anyways, feel free to answer my questions, you know, since you didn't do that.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
There's a MA example here:
How many stars would you rate an MA mission with one mission on a small map and 8 AVs all placed in the final room?
Global: @FuzzyOne
Find me playing these servers: Champion, Justice, Freedom, Virtue and Pinnacle
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There's a MA example here:
How many stars would you rate an MA mission with one mission on a small map and 8 AVs all placed in the final room?
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If I was told to bring 7 friends because it was a challenge?
5 stars.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
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Statesman being able to use Unstoppable permanently is balanced?
Positron being able to put your recharge into the negatives is balanced?
BABS handclap dealing 2000+ damage is balanced?
Manticore's autohit Teleport Arrow is balanced?
the Phalanx having a linked agro system is balanced?
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you pretty much have a 60 second window to kill Statesman after his Unstop drops and he pops it again
Positron isn't the only one w/ Lingering Radiation that nukes your recharge.
I'm sorry that BaBs gave you the clap 
Don't know about Manticore...usually ignore him
Can't really complain about linked aggro myself, when I run w/ my VG we always rush them. I did a PuG LRSF once and we pulled w/ minimal linked aggro.
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I'll remember that the next time I try an STF with 8 Scrappers. Or 6 Scrappers and 2 Tanks. Or an 8-man Posi TF with all Tanks. 8 FF Defenders running Faathim's TF. All of this are perfectly available team makeups. You're arguing that these teams should be able to complete these tasks without a single team wipe?
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No I'm arguing that recurring team wipes as was mentioned by someone else as a strategy(Use insps, wail, wipe repeat) is horribly flawed and shouldn't be considered a viable way of succeeding. Team wipes can happen, they shouldn't be a constant though.
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How is the concept of, "I'm gonna be taking on the most difficult single-team challenge in the game, I oughta bring a balanced mixture of toons that can help each other" too difficult for anyone?
[/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure how this relates to the things I've said in this thread. Generally when I build teams especially for Sf's in general I try to get at least 1 of each AT(excepting MM's as they make my compy cry.)
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Why is it that when a task is presented that requires a minimum of forethought, it's declared "impossible" and too hard?
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For me forethought has nothing to do with difficulty. My first Villain was a stalker, the times I'm on a team I'm always a step ahead and have my first target of a spawn picked out just as the team is finishing off the previous one. In the case of the LRSF I think the difficulty is too high because in my experience a balanced team can't always complete it. Note:4 corrs is not a balanced team to me.
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Pentad? As in just 5 players? Or a team of 8 that features 1 of each AT and 3 additional players?
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Team of 8 that features 1 of each AT.
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I can't speak for the Devs, since they know their specific balancing, but I can tell you that a team that contained one of each AT could take down the LRSF with ease
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Thanks for answering my question, your experience is different from mine which is fine, maybe I've been incredibly unlucky.I'll have to try the SF again and see what happens.
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Why is it that when a task is presented that requires a minimum of forethought, it's declared "impossible" and too hard?
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For me forethought has nothing to do with difficulty. My first Villain was a stalker, the times I'm on a team I'm always a step ahead and have my first target of a spawn picked out just as the team is finishing off the previous one. In the case of the LRSF I think the difficulty is too high because in my experience a balanced team can't always complete it. Note:4 corrs is not a balanced team to me.
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Pentad? As in just 5 players? Or a team of 8 that features 1 of each AT and 3 additional players?
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Team of 8 that features 1 of each AT.
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Just because I'm curious, these two things don't seem to be necessarily mutually exclusive.
Brute
Stalker
Dom
MM
Corr
Corr
Corr
Corr
...would be a pentad and have 4 Corr's. Remove an MM from that, for computer reasons, and one could, in theory, have 2 Brutes, 4 Corr, 1 Dom, 1 Stalker. Sub any of those for a VEAT, and that'll help too.
Also, I would fill those extra spots with Corruptors before anything else. Similarly, if I have decent damage on an STF, I'm looking for more Defenders/Controllers before anything else. Giving everyone on a team more survivability through buffs or debuffs is an extremely valuable weapon.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
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Can't really complain about linked aggro myself, when I run w/ my VG we always rush them.
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Haha, if i understand you correctly, the Phalanx is pulling your team. Fun fun 
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
/signed to changing the LRSF
+
/hide
we did this today with a team of 7.. 1 got pissy and left b/c members of the team were called noobs..
so down to 7.. of those 7, 4 never did it before, myself included, and 1 of those 4 had a toon pwr lvld to 50 *in 2 days* and didnt even know what badges were for or when we all opened the oro portal he stood in amazement and asked OMG WHAT WAS THAT WHERE DID YOU ALL GO...
and we PASSED with no nukes, no shivans, no nothing, just us.
2 hours 29 mins later.. yes, im sure it was long.. thats besides the point.
anyways.. nice run, nice lead.
*mental note*
thanks to you people THAT POWER LVL PPL THAT HAVE NEVER PLAYED THIS GAME BEFORE AND HAVE NO FREAKIN IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
what in the eff is someone 2 days into the game doing with a lvl 50 toon and joining the lrsf.
GOD!
I fully realize that a Pentad and 4 corrs aren't mutually exclusive. However to me 4 corrs isn't really balanced(although I do realize it's one of the best ways to beat the LRSF)
so lets see
2 Brutes
2 Corrs
1 MM
2 Dominators
1 Stalker
This is a perfectly viable team and well balanced, but a team like this will have unnecessary difficulties with the Phalanx. That's my issue with the LRSF.
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Can't really complain about linked aggro myself, when I run w/ my VG we always rush them.
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Haha, if i understand you correctly, the Phalanx is pulling your team. Fun fun
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what makes it more fun is when Statesman is the first one to drop because of Chem Nuke + Veng Shivans
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I fully realize that a Pentad and 4 corrs aren't mutually exclusive. However to me 4 corrs isn't really balanced(although I do realize it's one of the best ways to beat the LRSF)
so lets see
2 Brutes
2 Corrs
1 MM
2 Dominators
1 Stalker
This is a perfectly viable team and well balanced, but a team like this will have unnecessary difficulties with the Phalanx. That's my issue with the LRSF.
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Ignoring the fact that certain powersets and characters will be useful enough that such a team could succeed easily, what are you deeming unnecessary difficulties? You're handicapping yourself for the entire game with a team like that, you've just now reached a challenge where specific weaknesses can show through brightly. Even though it appears balanced, it's also redundant.
2 Brutes
1 Corr
1 MM
2 Dom
2 Stalkers
...is just as viable a team, but it would struggle quite a bit.
Taking zero consideration into what you want the team to do is ludicrous. There's no reason for the Devs to need to accommodate people who, literally, are wanting to beat everything in the game without the slightest amount of preparation.
What reason is there for them to make everything so easy that, without any forethought or planning in the least, every team should be able to beat it?
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
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Why is it that when a task is presented that requires a minimum of forethought, it's declared "impossible" and too hard?
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For me forethought has nothing to do with difficulty. My first Villain was a stalker, the times I'm on a team I'm always a step ahead and have my first target of a spawn picked out just as the team is finishing off the previous one. In the case of the LRSF I think the difficulty is too high because in my experience a balanced team can't always complete it. Note:4 corrs is not a balanced team to me.
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Pentad? As in just 5 players? Or a team of 8 that features 1 of each AT and 3 additional players?
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Team of 8 that features 1 of each AT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just because I'm curious, these two things don't seem to be necessarily mutually exclusive.
Brute
Stalker
Dom
MM
Corr
Corr
Corr
Corr
...would be a pentad and have 4 Corr's. Remove an MM from that, for computer reasons, and one could, in theory, have 2 Brutes, 4 Corr, 1 Dom, 1 Stalker. Sub any of those for a VEAT, and that'll help too.
Also, I would fill those extra spots with Corruptors before anything else. Similarly, if I have decent damage on an STF, I'm looking for more Defenders/Controllers before anything else. Giving everyone on a team more survivability through buffs or debuffs is an extremely valuable weapon.
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and what if that brute - the only brute willing to go - was /fire or /elec
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and what if that brute - the only brute willing to go - was /fire or /elec
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On a team with lots of +DEF, up to the soft cap, a RES-based Brute would benefit a lot and do very well.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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STF is too easy, RSF is too easy up them both please
This game is too easy and if you cant do it then you are horrible or lazy
if you wanna do a random pug and dont have the team to do it buffs/debuffs then dont do it, why does every horrible player want to dumb things down for the rest of us?
I just did this TF with a pug group at 12 am with who ever was around, no sleep dom, no stone brute, no def buffs, 2 kins 1 thermal 1 dark, we just used our inspirations wisely and killed what ever was in our way and we beat it.
I think the STF should be harder with the fight of the 4 avs, pretty simple if you know how to buff a tank with def and CMs/BFs/Claritys. Recluse himself is a decent challenge with his random phasing insane damage and, unkillableness while the towers are up, them being healed/rez and the respawning flier.
Im sorry but if your not going to put in any effort you deserve to fail
Ok, I had Me(Mace/WP Brute), We had a Fire/Fire Brute, 1 Fire/Kin Corrupter, 1 Fire/Elec Dom, 1 Fire/Thorns Dom, 1 Rad/Pain Corr, 1 NB/EA Stalker, Fire/Dark Corr.
We handled everything up to last mish pretty good, I don't think anyone died to be honest. Last mish, We let our Stalker be Veng Bait, We had Shiv's(4 of us did), No Nukes.
We never could complete it, after 4th Team Wipe, unable to get Num down(We had her at 1/4 life once, before full team death)
I ate ton of oranges & blues, etc..
SO no you can't jus bamo finish it, after forth wipe, the Fire/Dark & Stalker quit out.
So we just said F' it, nice waist of time & I've chosen to never run LRSF ever again. I've ran it 3 times in my Game Career, once on my Dark/Dark Corr on Triumph never finished. Once with my DB/Nin Stalker(I had pity spot) We finished(They had Cold Corrs, Stone Brute, 2 Kins, etc..), that last mention.
So you need your "OPTIMAL" team 95% of the time to make this work, everyone else gets left out.
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon
If you couldn't even take down Numina with that line-up, I question the quality of your players.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
QR
In my experience, all that's needed for a successful LRSF is to take down Numina.Once Numina's down, the rest fall like dominoes without anyone to heal them, and Sister Psyche, the only other buffer, can't buff herself.
If you don't have a team capable of separating the Phalanx somehow, or don't have things like Vengeance, Shivan Shards, and Warburg nukes, Numina can be taken down fairly simply by eating purple inspirations, focusing your fire, and going in for the suicidal fight. That strategy will net you a faceplant or two, but it can be perfectly successful for an otherwise weak team. If you can take out Numina before faceplanting, you're good to go.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Yeah, the "zerg rush" with concentrated firepower can work as a desperation tactic. As long as you can take out one in the time it takes for them to kill you, it gets easier each time.
But really, with 4 Shivans, vengeance, and a /Kin... Numina should've been cake. Fulcrum Shift + Shivans = players are just mop-up, you just need to stay alive long enough for your Shivans to kill them.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Statesman & BaBs destroyed the Fire/Fire Brute(He ate Oranges/Blues too)
I taunted them, tried to keep them in check, Posi & Num & Cit ravaged Stalker & Kin
Seemed to go like this, we tried every tactic, Ive read & or seen.
Statesman & BaBs would repeat the vicious destroying of us.
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon
Have everyone get purple inspirations, and ignore everyone but Numina until she's dead.
If you don't get Numina down, you're not going to get the others down either.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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QR
6 Pages of people whining over something that is not only doable but the masters of is doable.
Why not just populate the SF with level 1 snakes and make Statesman a LT. That way everyone could do it.
No wonder we lost 89 badges.
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Everyone you woke the "L33t uber IOed farmer".
We bow to your mighty words, while you did not offer any advice but just typed gibberish, we salute you *gives you a one finger salute*
Valaraine: Master Archer & Electricity Whiz.
(Archer - lvl 50, swordswoman - lvl 50, Elec zapper - lvl 35, Ice/DB tank - lvl 50, Arch/En - lvl 26, Lvl 33 Blade wielder, trick archer - lvl 34, flame tank - lvl 30, rad specialist - lvl 44.)
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