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I personally loathe speed boost. None of my characters are /kin, and none ever will be. Generally speaking, Speed Boost is less than useless to me. I don't care about recharge - I've either slotted my powers to handle it already, or I've *avoided* it because I'm dealing with endurance issues. Out of nearly thirty characters, I believe I have two with Hasten or Superspeed, and well probably burn a freespec to get rid of it from them, in favor of a power I'll actually use.
Personally, I wish there was a way to dismiss "beneficial" buffs, like in the "evil" MMO with the orcs and humans. And to those self-righteous /kin players who shout "I'm doing you a favor, take it and be happy!" No, you're not. I'll ask nicely once. And then you're costing the team whatever buffs/debuffs/dps I was bringing, because I'll have sent a /tell to the leader saying "Thanks for the team, but I gone." And then I will be.
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Ah, just checking but are you aware that SB also provides a massive Endurance Recovery buff?
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You don't need any of your powers recharging as fast if all the enemies are defeated within five seconds of the team reaching them.
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On the contrary, that is when you need fast recharge the most. Foot Stomp, RoA, Shield Charge, Full Auto, and other heavy-hitting AoEs up for every spawn, even when the spawns are going down in seconds. That 5-second-per-spawn kill rate doesn't often happen with just FS. But it often does with FS and SB.
Perhaps your argument would hold a thimbleful of water if the two buffs were mutually exclusive. But, they aren't. A kin can SB and FS, and good ones do just that.
[/ QUOTE ] I agree the good ones do both, I'm just saying fulcrum shift is better.
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I play a lot of kinetics and a lot of scrapper, and I agree that both buffs are great, but I really think that fulcrum shift is the more valuable of the two. Viewing it from both sides, kin and scrap, if I had to choose one of those buffs to be applied it would most definitely be fulcrum.
Currently on Virtue:
Jinrazuo - Crab Spider
RWZ All-Pylon Solo Run
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the powers you select is my business.
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Wrong. So wrong I don't even know how to put it in words other than you're wrong. How the person constributes to the team is your business. How the person builds their toon shouldn't be.
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Say you were on a high level team with a tank that didn't take his status protection power. The tank continued to be mezzed over and over and over again, continuously being killed, making it much more difficult for the team to survive because of the lack of aggro management. Would you still say that the tanks choice to not pick up his status protection still isn't your business?
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Ah, just checking but are you aware that SB also provides a massive Endurance Recovery buff?
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It doesn't matter. I hate the power, I hate the movement speed increase, and I'll ask politely to be skipped when it's being handed out. Once.
So do you then kick the guy who won't take the SB since he's not taking a buff that turns his abilities up to the preverbial 11 even though the rest of the team is taking it? Since his choice of not taking the SB doesn't make him as effective a team member as he could be....
I'm just askin...
I think you're using what would be an extreme case to make an example as I think it's fairly rare that someone doesn't pick up their status protection. (I'm not saying it couldn't happen) Truth be told, if you're teaming with someone who isn't a good player/team mate or is having a difficult time with their toon, it really doesn't matter what powers they've chosen or not. They could still have them and have them slotted wrong. I have seen that. I've accidentally done that myself and had to respect to correct it.
So let me ask you this, are you saying that when it comes down to it, if a kin doesn't have speed boost are you going to kick them?
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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the powers you select is my business.
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Wrong. So wrong I don't even know how to put it in words other than you're wrong. How the person constributes to the team is your business. How the person builds their toon shouldn't be.
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Say you were on a high level team with a tank that didn't take his status protection power. The tank continued to be mezzed over and over and over again, continuously being killed, making it much more difficult for the team to survive because of the lack of aggro management. Would you still say that the tanks choice to not pick up his status protection still isn't your business?
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It still isn't. If any Tank doesn't want to take their mez protection, that's fine. If he's contributing to the team well, then I won't kick him. If the Tank is not contributing to the team, by perhaps dying or doing nothing, then I would kick them.
Let's pretend though that how people build their toons is my business. Mez protection is vital. It stops you from being mezzed which could easily mean someone's death. SB on the other hand isn't vital. You won't die if you don't have it. So you decide which is more important, mez protection or SB?
Winters Rose:
What with all these lazy tanks that don't hold 100% of the aggro? And defeat the mobs for me? And where is there Aid Other? Leadership toggles? Recall Friend? Where is their pile of awakens to get me back on my feet when they fail at their job to prevent all damage?
Once upon a time there was a debate, "What's with all these lazy tanker's without taunt? Why would you even take up a team slot with a tanker without taunt?"
I have teamed with many great tankers. Some had taunt; some did not. All of them were great additions to the team whether they had or used that one particular power.
On a truly "bleeding edge" team, speed boost is actually a hinderance. Things go down so quickly from fulcrum shifty goodness, that the recharge benefit is vitiated by travel time. But speed boost increases travel speed? True, but judging it with the anti-jousting timing is rather difficult, and tends to cause multiple aggro which can lead to team wipes, which leads to less optimal performance.
I'll make a deal with you or anyone else. I'll not tell you how to play your character, and you'll not tell me how to play mine.
Peace
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Wait, you mean Kinetics isn't just about buffing the Tanker? Man, Winters_Rose is gonna flip.
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It's not kins, it's everyone and not tanks, it's me.
B00f meh!
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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You may keep your damned Speed Boost to yourself, please.
I'd rather know what's going to happen when I try to move. And if you must go zipping off ahead of the tanker, you do so at your own risk.
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Ahh the same old tired arguement after all these years... to the "I cant contol my character with SB!" crowd I offer this: Learn to Play.
If you overshoot your target- use /follow.
This is a operator error issue, not a problem with SB as a power or its effects in game. The 20% recharge and huge end boost SB gives far outweighs minor issues with people being poor at controlling their characters movements. Practice.
Your inability to control your character cannot contstitute a team emergency where everyone must slow down and wait for you.
So...yeah. Learn to play.
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You may keep your damned Speed Boost to yourself, please.
I'd rather know what's going to happen when I try to move. And if you must go zipping off ahead of the tanker, you do so at your own risk.
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Ahh the same old tired arguement after all these years... to the "I cant contol my character with SB!" crowd I offer this: Learn to Play.
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http://www.google.com/search?q=speed...cy%20tradeoffs
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If you overshoot your target- use /follow.
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As a tanker, you sometimes want to be at a specific position that is not next to the critter you are targeting.
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Wait, you mean Kinetics isn't just about buffing the Tanker? Man, Winters_Rose is gonna flip.
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It's not kins, it's everyone and not tanks, it's me.
B00f meh!
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fine...
*Forts, ABs, SBs, Ice Shields, Pain Bringer, WoP*
I've actually been on a few PuGs where I didn't realize we had a Kin until the 3rd or 4th mission.
If I don't feel like doing my job & buffing the team than I play another AT.
I slot my SB for end mod not speed. For those who have a problem getting SBed I make an attempt not to... but if I do accidentally they need to deal with it or get a better computer.
I typically deal with Speed Boost on melee characters by turning on Fly. I usually take Air Superiority and Fly on melees unless there's a strong reason to take another travel pool. I don't have Hover itself, usually.
Of course, turning on Fly tends to negate any recovery advantage from Speed Boost. But at least when I am in combat I am travel speed suppressed and as such can predict what will happen when I use a movement key. This also creates difficulties for characters with powers like Fault or Foot Stomp.
It's the unpredictability that bothers me most. I don't pay attention to when the speed boost is present or absent. When I am the main tanker for a team, I will typically be trying to intercept mobs in one area while taunting another. Using follow on moving targets still yields random results under the Speed Boost debuff, and more importantly I'm usually not aiming for the mob I have targeted either.
So if you think Speed Boost is something that everybody ought to have even if they don't want it, you learn to play. Better yet, why don't you reroll for Sonic, or Force Field, or Radiation, or Thermal, Cold ... whatever else Kinetics is, it is so common that it's dull. And when a single powerset becomes so overwhelmingly popular, that tends to be a bad sign for the future viability of those characters.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Because not everyone has a super fancy computer. I know that may sound crazy, but it's true.
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If your planning on playing MMo's that are constantly UPDATED throughout the years than yes, you should get a better comp. Then again I can run CoH, WoW and Age of Conan with a 5 year old rig. So I'm assuming you just don't know how to play with SB or your system is so slow it overheats constantly and you get what many refer to as "slide show" gaming. Either way if you can run TF's and do EVERYTHING else, then SB should have nothing to do with your hardware. Nice try though
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
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SB may boost my attack rate. That's great. I like that. But the side-effects of super-speed are very detrimental to my performance in a fluid combat environment because control over my positioning degrades dramatically.
Thus, I usually request that a Kin withhold SB from me until I'm either:
A: In the middle of a positively huge mob where all I really need to do is turn around.
B: Shaking hands with the Big Bad's face.
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I would love to see a vid of how you engage in combat. I have 2 high levels scrappers and I have been sb'ed before. Never has it ruined my performance in a fluid combat enviornment. Unless of course I hold the run button down. Honestly I would love to see a vid of you on SB and how its "detrimental" to your combat style.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
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Its like a blaster not blasting... why fill a spot with a kin that doesn't sb anyone? I didn't even suggest that the entire team be SB but not SB anyone is lazy. It takes seconds and helps the TEAM tremendously. So give me a break about tanks not helping the team... go be lazy somewhere else.
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Tank and stop asking for speed boost.
Pfffft. Tanker asking for +recharge like he's a damage AT or something...
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Its like a blaster not blasting... why fill a spot with a kin that doesn't sb anyone? I didn't even suggest that the entire team be SB but not SB anyone is lazy. It takes seconds and helps the TEAM tremendously. So give me a break about tanks not helping the team... go be lazy somewhere else.
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Tank and stop asking for speed boost.
Pfffft. Tanker asking for +recharge like he's a damage AT or something...
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Moar recharge NAO! Jump kick demands it! A Skul in spaece needs no moar aggro management!
3 recharge jump kick = you're done, no more powers.
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Because not everyone has a super fancy computer. I know that may sound crazy, but it's true.
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If your planning on playing MMo's that are constantly UPDATED throughout the years than yes, you should get a better comp. Then again I can run CoH, WoW and Age of Conan with a 5 year old rig. So I'm assuming you just don't know how to play with SB or your system is so slow it overheats constantly and you get what many refer to as "slide show" gaming. Either way if you can run TF's and do EVERYTHING else, then SB should have nothing to do with your hardware. Nice try though
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Way to miss the point.
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Way to miss the point.
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I got the point, you just have no actual response. You have no excuse, if you cant run CoH because of ONE buff, then you need a newer rig than I do. So what else cant your rig do?, because of ONE buff.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
<QR>
SB is the reason I lost interest in my kins. Yes, the team functions better with it up, but buffbot is not entertaining. I am happy to group kins, and I would prefer they use SB, but if they're contributing (siphon power/transferrence/transfusion/fulcrum shift/increase density are all excellent) then really I don't mind too much if they don't SB. Frankly kin is a great set even without SB - but for me it is not fun to play with SB as one of your 'primary' functions.
Also, I tend to avoid adding tankers to my pugs, so I don't run into "OMG STONE TANK NEEDS CRACK" that often.
if u play a kin u should sb every1 on team not just a select few. when i play my kin i close the chat window. it seems no matter how fast i give it out some idiot always have to say (sb plz)
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Way to miss the point.
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I got the point, you just have no actual response. You have no excuse, if you cant run CoH because of ONE buff, then you need a newer rig than I do. So what else cant your rig do?, because of ONE buff.
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*sigh* I'll just leave it as is.
Shout out to DR. Janis on Guardian server who;
Is level 50
Has no SB...I repeat has no SB 
Reasons; "It doesnt fit into my purple set scheme" 
. "But I'm a fast healer" 
. Four team wipes later..."I'll go get my tank"....three team wipes later...."Mission is hard". Perfect example of a PLed Lazy kins with no SB. Mind you we had a Rock tank and fire scrapper on team...So there went the dps. Fulcrum workeds "only when it wants to". Horrible player.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
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You don't need any of your powers recharging as fast if all the enemies are defeated within five seconds of the team reaching them.
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On the contrary, that is when you need fast recharge the most. Foot Stomp, RoA, Shield Charge, Full Auto, and other heavy-hitting AoEs up for every spawn, even when the spawns are going down in seconds. That 5-second-per-spawn kill rate doesn't often happen with just FS. But it often does with FS and SB.
Perhaps your argument would hold a thimbleful of water if the two buffs were mutually exclusive. But, they aren't. A kin can SB and FS, and good ones do just that.
[/ QUOTE ] I agree the good ones do both, I'm just saying fulcrum shift is better.