[ QUOTE ]
Why play a kin if you don't wanna SB people?
[/ QUOTE ]
To have fun?
Because people asking constantly for SB drives people insane.
sb plz
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Welcome to your life as a kin.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
Oh wait i get it, they're taking pictures of your underpants! <laughs>
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why play a kin if you don't wanna SB people?
[/ QUOTE ]
To have fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
^ This. ^
And to spam ID on the squishies 
Omega Zim - lvl 50 Rad/Dark/Power Defender, Alpha Zim - lvl 50 Tri-form Peacebringer
Theta Zim - lvl 50 Tri-form Warshade, Nightshade Zim - lvl 50 Dark/Dark/Psi Defender
Omicron Zim - lvl 50 Emp/Psi/Power Defender, Scrappy Joe - lvl 50 MA/SR Scrapper
There are players that don't want SB on them, actually. I think the best form of etiquette on this now is for the Kin to ask who wants SB and to act accordingly. But if they're not handing you a Speed Boost when you want it, why don't you ask? You can only really be annoyed if they won't do it after you ask (politely).
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Wait, you mean Kinetics isn't just about buffing the Tanker? Man, Winters_Rose is gonna flip.
when i play my /kin i usually only SB those who eat through their endurance bars like candy. otherwise it depends on the situation (tough fight approaching, ect) or if someone asks. if the whole team is doing ok WITHOUT SB, then that leaves me more time to do things like buff damage, spam controls/attacks/siphon speed (so i can spam even more) and also heal both green and blue bars, as needed.
SG: Guadians of Paragon - VG: Paragon's Darkness
The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
Why do that?
It doesn't fit into the tanker archetypes general attitude, right?
This is one of the reasons that I generally try to avoid inviting tankers to teams.
It is good to see this kind of post, it helps me reaffirm my belief that a good many of them are just too full of themselves.
Some tankers need to take a chill-pill, ease up, and learn to work with a [u]team[u].
I certain hope all those kins that Winters_Rose is kicking put Winters_Rose on /gignore and 1 star rate Winters_Rosein Notes.
I know I would.
Its like a blaster not blasting... why fill a spot with a kin that doesn't sb anyone? I didn't even suggest that the entire team be SB but not SB anyone is lazy. It takes seconds and helps the TEAM tremendously. So give me a break about tanks not helping the team... go be lazy somewhere else.
[ QUOTE ]
Its like a blaster not blasting... why fill a spot with a kin that doesn't sb anyone? I didn't even suggest that the entire team be SB but not SB anyone is lazy. It takes seconds and helps the TEAM tremendously. So give me a break about tanks not helping the team... go be lazy somewhere else.
[/ QUOTE ]
This example is just going a bit too far. I'm not going to come in on either side of this debate, cause well I've seen this discussion too much. But lets not compare using one power in a set to not using a whole set, no matter how important you/I/or anyone thinks that power is.
Too many characters to fit in this space.
If you lay down and give up you have no one to blame but yourself. If you stand up and fight you'll have no one to blame because you've already won.
I can't help but wonder why this is on the Tanker forum, but anyways...
[ QUOTE ]
Its like a blaster not blasting... why fill a spot with a kin that doesn't sb anyone? I didn't even suggest that the entire team be SB but not SB anyone is lazy. It takes seconds and helps the TEAM tremendously. So give me a break about tanks not helping the team... go be lazy somewhere else.
[/ QUOTE ]
Kin offers much more to a team than just Speed Boost. The second most notable being +dmg buffs from Fulcrum Shift and Siphon Power. Kin can also help solve end problems outside of SB with Transference (this helps melee more than ranged characters, granted). Against hard targets like up level bosses or EB/AVs, Kin debuffs (Siphon Speed included since it's unresistible) can substantially drop enemy damage. To top it off, it has a very strong heal - Transfusion (again, more melee centric).
[edit: This isn't even mentioning other secondary effects that Defender powers have, such as Sonic's -res, Rad's def debuffs/stun, etc.]
Do I like Speed Boost? Oh yes. Do I grumble a bit (to myself, or maybe on Vent) when a Kin never uses SB? Yes. Would I kick them from the team if he is actively participating in other ways? No.
I'm forced to ask, do you have a Kin? It's easy, as a recipient, to shake your fist at the Kin, but after playing it for a bit, I can completely understand why a Kin wouldn't want to keep it up. Two minutes is a lot shorter than you'd think. Even if it only takes "a couple seconds" (try around 15s for an 8 man team) you have to do it a lot (15s every 2 minutes is 1/8 of your playtime).
I have a Kin, and yes I try to keep SB on as many people as I can. I think you're being way too sensitive.
(I should know better than to respond to a post like this...)
[ QUOTE ]
I can't help but wonder why this is on the Tanker forum, but anyways...
[ QUOTE ]
Its like a blaster not blasting... why fill a spot with a kin that doesn't sb anyone? I didn't even suggest that the entire team be SB but not SB anyone is lazy. It takes seconds and helps the TEAM tremendously. So give me a break about tanks not helping the team... go be lazy somewhere else.
[/ QUOTE ]
Kin offers much more to a team than just Speed Boost. The second most notable being +dmg buffs from Fulcrum Shift and Siphon Power. Kin can also help solve end problems outside of SB with Transference (this helps melee more than ranged characters, granted). Against hard targets like up level bosses or EB/AVs, Kin debuffs (Siphon Speed included since it's unresistible) can substantially drop enemy damage. To top it off, it has a very strong heal - Transfusion (again, more melee centric).
[edit: This isn't even mentioning other secondary effects that Defender powers have, such as Sonic's -res, Rad's def debuffs/stun, etc.]
Do I like Speed Boost? Oh yes. Do I grumble a bit (to myself, or maybe on Vent) when a Kin never uses SB? Yes. Would I kick them from the team if he is actively participating in other ways? No.
I'm forced to ask, do you have a Kin? It's easy, as a recipient, to shake your fist at the Kin, but after playing it for a bit, I can completely understand why a Kin wouldn't want to keep it up. Two minutes is a lot shorter than you'd think. Even if it only takes "a couple seconds" (try around 15s for an 8 man team) you have to do it a lot (15s every 2 minutes is 1/8 of your playtime).
I have a Kin, and yes I try to keep SB on as many people as I can. I think you're being way too sensitive.
(I should know better than to respond to a post like this...)
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To be fair though, I'm not sure the OP was upset that the kins were sometimes not keeping SB up, I think the OP was complaining about kins that NEVER sb, which is, if they have it, in many ways frustrating. Especially in content with heavy end draining. Most notably was when I was on a Sister Psyche and the kin had sb (I actually wouldn't have been upset if they didn't have SB) and wouldn't use it because they felt that the team would use it as a crutch. This was when most of the team was 22 - 25, and before most were well slotted against a load of end draining enemies (freaks). I did kick them (for other reasons too, the guy was a doofus).
I do have a fire/kin. Moreover, I have a farming fire/kin and on teams I somehow manage, among all my other duties to keep SB up on the team. Granted not all the time. There are moments in an AV fight where I'm far too busy spamming everything else to notice when sb drops. But overall it's really not that hard to sb three or four times a misison when you have binds set up for it. And if you don't, sb those who desperately need it.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
Heh, that's a pet peeve of both me and my wife when we get on a TF and the Kin (or Kin[s]) hardly touch the power.
We cycle it if we're on Kins because it makes everything go faster.
My solution to bad kins is forcing my wife to get on hers if I play my Tank, problem solved. =Q
i have several kins. trying to keep a whiney team fully sb'd all the time is like the old force field back when shields only lasted 2 minutes.
if you whine for it, i immediately and intentionally take far longer to give it to you again.
but that's just me, as i generally take offense at a tanker with only rpd and every power out of their secondary telling me how to play.
Yeah, buffing can get old fast. I don't know if I'm ever going to go back to playing my Bots/FF MM, because I got sick of resetting the Shields all the time (and I usually didn't throw them on my pets, either... running a bunch of 8-man teams made me sick of it after awhile).
For some reason, healing to me isn't as big of a chore, maybe because you feel like you're saving someone from faceplanting. Pain Domination has its share of buffs (I only cast Enforced Morale if someone asks for it, they're mezzed, or my pets are goign up against Scrapyarders 
).
So yeah, I can understand it when SB isn't kept up all the time. It is, however, a fairly important/useful power in the Kinetics set, though. So not handing it out is a little odd (though I can understand a backlash against those whining for it, too).
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
QR:
Speed boost is GENERALLY the in the top tier of valuable things a Kinetic can do to their team, and this effect escalates as team size escalates.
Situationally, other priorities arise: Healing, Holding, Spot-debuffing, Killing specific targets, firing a particularly juicy Fulcrum shift, and should be addressed as they arise.
But a kinetic on a team isn't the ONLY one addressing threats. By speedboosting a defender, you increase the amount of buffs, debuffs, and damage they can provide. By speedboosting a controller, more enemies are held/stunned a greater percentage of the time. A well played tanker can and will use speedboost to increase the aggro they hold. A speedboosted blaster or scrapper can end the fight that much faster.
The more capable your teamates are, the less likely YOU are going to be the one who "needs" to take action to address some emergency. Speedboost is an incredible tool, considering that battle-field domninating effects are usually counterbalanced by their long recharges. Speedboost means more of the best things, more of the time.
Never mind the Endurance, I'm talking about RECHARGE. A Kinetic buffing an 8 man team is putting out in excess of 4.8 billion influence worth of recharge bonuses. 
Mission Arc: Metatronic Mayhem (Id 1750): A tale of robots gone wrong, rogue robots gone right, and madmen gone every which way but loose.
[ QUOTE ]
Speed boost is GENERALLY the in the top tier of valuable things a Kinetic can do to their team, and this effect escalates as team size escalates.
Situationally, other priorities arise: Healing, Holding, Spot-debuffing, Killing specific targets, firing a particularly juicy Fulcrum shift, and should be addressed as they arise.
But a kinetic on a team isn't the ONLY one addressing threats. By speedboosting a defender, you increase the amount of buffs, debuffs, and damage they can provide. By speedboosting a controller, more enemies are held/stunned a greater percentage of the time. A well played tanker can and will use speedboost to increase the aggro they hold. A speedboosted blaster or scrapper can end the fight that much faster.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would definitely agree with this, and I've been on both sides of the SB equation. As a recipient I always appreciate the recharge (for most characters the recovery bonus is secondary) and when I'm playing a kin I always do my best to keep it on the entire team. If I get busy and forget about it then I actually want the team to let me know when it's dropped.
For the most part I don't have a problem keeping it up while still handling the rest of my job. I've found that to be the case on my 50 Mind/Kin troller, the 35 Kin/Rad defender and the mid-20's Kin/Elec defender. Whenever I get a free moment I go down the team list and refresh SB.
<Although I do think this probably isn't the correct forum for this thread.>
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
My first 50 (Chaos String) is a kin, and boy did I ever hate "SB PLZ!" Just all the whining at me, as if I didn't have better things to do than SB everyone all the time. I mean, I can control stuff, buff team damage, do damage of my own, heal people... the list goes on and on. "I will speed boost you when I get around to it, and if you whine, I don't SB you at all!"
And then, one day I realized that on solid teams where players have strong builds, there is literally nothing better for me to do than make sure I keep everybody speed-boosted. It's just such a huge force multiplier. Blasters nuke more often and get back into the fight faster. Scrappers get some scary attack chains. Emps can fort more people. Debuffers can throw out more debuffs. Tanks get their self-heals back more quickly, can taunt and attack faster.
So I bloody well SB everyone, as nearly all the time as I can manage. I can still do my own thing. Keeping one buff on 8 people isn't really that time-consuming. I still get to do crowd control, and help kill the bad guys, and you can bet I'll never pass up a good Fulcrum Shift. Even my powerboosted heals for >600hp in an AoE have their correct time and place.
But I've come to realize that SB is really very high in the pecking order of things I should be taking care of.
Very few kins, especially new kins, realize this--chiefly because they don't want to realize it. They like to think that whatever they're doing on their own is having more impact than adding 2 SO's of recharge to every single power of 7 other people. (Along with giving them another copy of Stamina and making them totally immune to slows.) I don't really need to iterate how absurd this really is, though, right?
Kins, if for some mysterious reason you're over here in the tanker forum reading this, keep your team SB'd. Seriously. You do NOT have better things to do. Trust me.
As a kin defender, I hate people saying "No speedboost please" and then I have to maintain that mental list of people who said they don't want it.
That's of course pre-20 when people don't have Stamina nor proper enhancements. That game is way too fast in those levels you know.
Just to bring it back to tanks. If you didnt want to play a slow character you shouldnt have picked Stone tank. I know we have been side stepping which tank were talking about this whole time but yes everyone knows its Stone. Its slow and it works better with SB but if you cant make the tools of the game work for you that you need a kin at all times then you need to play a different tank or not play one at all. Kin has become so valuable because of lazy tanks who wont use the power that they can take to make the set work for them. Easy mode has a price to pay and Kin isnt the crutch you should balance on.
Now other tank sets and kins. Its nice but ive not found any other tank set that is so end hungry that they needed a kin. The speed to allow you to get to mobs faster is great but with the whole team boosted it becomes null.
Virtue
--Blazing Tiger-- 50 Invulrn/Fire Tank
<<Virtues Tankiest Kitty>>
Try my Arcs: #4892 and #112548
@Blazing Tiger and @Aqua Fox
You may keep your damned Speed Boost to yourself, please.
I'd rather know what's going to happen when I try to move. And if you must go zipping off ahead of the tanker, you do so at your own risk.
It seems that one of every two Controllers has Kinetics instead of a useful buff set. For Defenders it seems almost as bad. This is a source of some frustration.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
[ QUOTE ]
It seems that one of every two Controllers has Kinetics instead of a useful buff set. For Defenders it seems almost as bad. This is a source of some frustration.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm BT and I endorse this quote
Virtue
--Blazing Tiger-- 50 Invulrn/Fire Tank
<<Virtues Tankiest Kitty>>
Try my Arcs: #4892 and #112548
@Blazing Tiger and @Aqua Fox
On my Ill/Kin Troller I only SB people in CoT caves ... and then only when they hit that big 4 story room.
However I do try to keep the snickering to a minimum.
P.S. - Speed Boosting that anxious Scrapper JUST when the Tanker starts to charge is my second most favorite thing to do in the game (the first being watching a Scrapper getting splatted by an alpha 
)
As a rule, when I'm playing my Kin, anyone who constantly nags and begs for SB doesnt get it, or gets it last. I know what the hell I'm doing, and I'll get to it when I'm damn good and ready. And if you really need it that badly, well, you've got deeper issues.
As a tank, I never ask for it, not even when running my Stoner, because I know precisely how rude and annoying it is to have someone harping about it constantly. And I assume that that particular Kin on my team actually knows what they are doing. Its just common courtesy.
�Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.� ― John Wayne
�Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!� - George Carlin
I don't know if it's a symptom of MA but lately all the MA teams I have made have have lazy kins (kins that never SB anyone). Why play a kin if you don't wanna SB people?
I have now started kicking lazy kins!