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Illusion/Kinetic here, and i'm not so bad [censored] I dont need to SB people, I just plain old dont want to be anyones buff bot so they can flex their muscles even harder and be the teams big star. No you do not get to suck up my FS then bemoan how i'm not maximizing YOUR playing.
I simply dont care if your getting the max outta your play because i'm busy getting the max outta MINE.
The sheer entitlement is simply silly. I'm not playing the game to make your pimped out scrapper easy and fun to play, i'm certainly not playing so you can flex and say "See how awesome I am?".
I will simply have to accept I'm a horrible buffer, but then again I didnt make the Illusion/kinetic controller to be a buffer, I made it because "I" would enjoy playing it and maxing out what "I" can do with MY controls and damage.
It simply isnt my job to make your play experience more fun and easy for you any more than its yours to make my controlling and damage better by expecting you to play micromanager with YOUR powers for my explicit benifit reguardless of how much it sucks for you and your fun. PERIOD. No exceptions.
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but the main reason why your picked on teams isn't because of your illusion control, its because you chose kinetics.
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Quote:
Illusion/Kinetic here, and i'm not so bad [censored] I dont need to SB people, I just plain old dont want to be anyones buff bot so they can flex their muscles even harder and be the teams big star. No you do not get to suck up my FS then bemoan how i'm not maximizing YOUR playing.
I simply dont care if your getting the max outta your play because i'm busy getting the max outta MINE.
The sheer entitlement is simply silly. I'm not playing the game to make your pimped out scrapper easy and fun to play, i'm certainly not playing so you can flex and say "See how awesome I am?".
I will simply have to accept I'm a horrible buffer, but then again I didnt make the Illusion/kinetic controller to be a buffer, I made it because "I" would enjoy playing it and maxing out what "I" can do with MY controls and damage.
It simply isnt my job to make your play experience more fun and easy for you any more than its yours to make my controlling and damage better by expecting you to play micromanager with YOUR powers for my explicit benifit reguardless of how much it sucks for you and your fun. PERIOD. No exceptions.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the main reason why your picked on teams isn't because of your illusion control, its because you chose kinetics.
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Actually the main reasons I choose a kin for the team are
Damage buffs like Siphon power and fulcrum shift.
A melee heal like transfusion that also lowers regen
SB is nice but really not a deal breaker for me on a kin one way or another unless thier is a Stone/ on the team who needs mobility help
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Either way, it's you who has the silly sense of entitlement: that you can join a team and be so unilaterally concerned with your own playstyle and refuse to adapt to those of your teammates.
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This is so dumb it's ridiculous. Last I checked it wasn't the /kin characters running around telling people to 'taunt plz' or whatever.
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
The tank in me thinks the person who picks a potent buff set like kin and neglects to take or apply the teamate buffs is a moron.
The kin in me thinks anyone who picks me to fill the holes in their build, and then demands said buff to optomize their playtime is worse.
FWIW I pugged a kin/rad to 50 and my stone/fire tank is a 46.
I know a little something about both sides.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
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The tank in me thinks the person who picks a potent buff set like kin and neglects to take or apply the teamate buffs is a moron.
The kin in me thinks anyone who picks me to fill the holes in their build, and then demands said buff to optomize their playtime is worse.
FWIW I pugged a kin/rad to 50 and my stone/fire tank is a 46.
I know a little something about both sides.
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Like you I can see both sides but in the end I prefer to see the fulcrum shifts and transferences going off over the speed boosts. My Stone/Ice tank has never once asked for SB. I just turn rooted off or teleport. Now when she does get SB put on her I use it but I don't rely on it.
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Either way, it's you who has the silly sense of entitlement: that you can join a team and be so unilaterally concerned with your own playstyle and refuse to adapt to those of your teammates.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is so dumb it's ridiculous. Last I checked it wasn't the /kin characters running around telling people to 'taunt plz' or whatever.
[/ QUOTE ]
I get asked to do specific things all the time. Playing a tank, I get asked to pull AVs, herd up a room, or just generally put myself in harm's way. The announcement "Indy is lead tank," implicitly is the same as, "Indy, go get hammered by those 2 stacked spawns of +4s plz."
Nobody asks me to "taunt plz" because they don't need to. I hold aggro without being asked to hold aggro. Just as nobody asks my grav/kin to "SB plz." Because they don't need to. I just SB them.
Maybe as my tank, I should turn off my taunt aura and just let the pissy, selfish kin get plastered to the floor every time he tries a fulcrum shift (which, according to his own words, he does to maximize his OWN damage and fun, not mine or anybody else's.) And then maybe he would speak up about the fact that I'm not holding aggro--as he should.
Just as I'm right to remind him (once) to SB the team.
This whole debate is ridiculous, and I've been on both sides of the issue too. At one time, I would have sided with those who say, "I'll SB if I want to SB, and be vindictive/defensive if you dare to prod me for it." But I was wrong to have an attitude about it. I've publicly owned up to that mistake, adapted my playstyle, and become a much better kin.
For those who are so stubborn and self-centered as to cling to their excuses for not buffing, change must come from within, or not at all. Perhaps some folks just aren't cut out to take pride in a support role, or to play unselfishly, even if they can still be front-and-center 7/8 of the time.
Let me conclude my arguments by saying that I find such players irksome, especially when they're belligerent or conceited in addition to being poor team players; and that I am not given to suffer fools lightly when the star is mine.
I've offered my testimony in this thread merely in hopes that it will motivate some players to re-examine how simple and effective it is just to make the effort to SB everyone. If anyone has ever truly been on both sides of this issue, it is I.
So, for the final time: kins, SB your teammates.
I can see both sides too. The ice tank in me loves the boosties.
Sadly, the /kin in me has been subjected to outright rudeness regarding SBs. When on a team, I at once ask "who doesn't want boosts"? After that, I go down the rotation boosting everyone who wants them as fast as I can, then go back to the top and start over. I always keep an eye on team buffs to see when it's fading on someone. Still, for some this is not enough, I have had people spam "BOOST" over and over and over even when I have just boosted them. I don't get vindictive and not boost the rude jerks, but it is rather demoralizing.
Also, I will, as a /kin, stand as close to the tanks as possible so they can get the full benefit of fulcrum shift and siphon power, then go back to the rounds of boost, transfer, transfuse, lather rinse repeat.
YMMV
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Either way, it's you who has the silly sense of entitlement: that you can join a team and be so unilaterally concerned with your own playstyle and refuse to adapt to those of your teammates.
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This is so dumb it's ridiculous. Last I checked it wasn't the /kin characters running around telling people to 'taunt plz' or whatever.
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snip
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I don't think anyone is saying that buffing SB is somehow inefficient or suboptimal, so we can stop that argument right there.
The point is that stopping every couple minuets (often during combat) to rebuff an entire team sucks. It's boring, the buff interface is terrible, and it feels really contrary to how the rest of the set plays. That, and SB is essentially the only buff that people will whine about constantly if it falls off for five seconds. I've never seen someone spam /g with 'ice armr plz.'
That, and it's not as though the difficulty of this game makes it at all necessary to worry about to the extent people apparently do, and it doesn't justify the sense of entitlement that is only exhibited WRT /kin. I don't play the set anymore because I got tired of exactly this sort of stupid [censored], but when I did I mostly kept SB up on the brute(s) and let everyone else handle themselves.
And it is a sense of entitlement on the part of people asking for the buff. If you run around with the attitude that a large number of other players exist only to buff you, I'm amazed you find teams at all.
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
If your entire or even "main" reason for having me on "your" team is to continually have me spam one specific power out of both my primary and secondary and using that one specific power or not is the deal breaker for you then you wouldnt need to kick me, I would most happily leave on my own as such totaly fixated min/max micromanager styled players drive me nuts to begin with.
Of course i SB stone tanks and people having endurance issues, I even SB players without said problems of movement and endurance, but I will not ever accept that a team I am on who is cruising through said mission without any noticeable problems requires me to spend 10-15% of my playtime spamming one stupid skippable power just so the crazy idgit powergamers can get that 3% more xp per minute.
I'm NOT talking about the "oh its an AV, SB us all please" situations. I'm talking about the "its a mission full of yellow and orange common mobs we deffinantly need to all be SB'ed to clear this map as fast as possible and I have decreed from on high that its my right and your job, so do it!" situations.
And if you cannot tell the difference (or think there is none) then your obviously mainly interested more in what you can gain from micromanaging the xp/drop/influence rates than you are making sure everyone is just enjoying playing the game, and in that case we really have nothing more to talk about as its simply a difference of philosophy on playing the game.
The short version is this. A very very tiny percent of this game content requires individuals much less entire teams to NEED the maintaining of SB on them. If I am unfortunate enough to be on a team where 7 people NEED to have SB on them continiously, then I have actually joined a team with 7 people who absolutely do not know how to build characters (or I'm on a low level team which is different and acceptable) and I need to leave said team immediately. Anything else is just other people being fixated on quick advancement/drops/influence and none of these are of enough concern to me to adjust my play style to the degree it would take to make these people happy.
If its even remotely needed I give it out happily, if its not then you get what you get when I have the time and inclination to give it as I couldnt care less if your fixated on maximizing your xp/drop/influence rate.
"Keep us all Speed Boosted or be kicked!"
"LOL Goodbye.." *Quit*
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
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Let me conclude my arguments by saying that I find such players irksome, especially when they're intelligent or correct in addition to being poor powergamers; and that I am not given to suffer non-min/maxers lightly when the star is mine.
So, for the final time: kins, play your characters how my "vision" of the AT does it. Or else!
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Ok, maybe I did edit that a little.... But thats how it sounds to me.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
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Nerf Speed Boost.
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I would be strongly pleased if the technology for the Fortune and Teleport were added to it, to give you the chance to decline the "buff".
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
You just can't play at the level that other people better than you at playing anything kinetics do, evidenced by the fact that some people can keep sb up and do eveything else you do on a team.
I don't think any further justification is necessary, you just aren't that good.
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Chaos, it wouldn't look bad for any Kins.
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What wouldn't look bad?
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Why? Well I'll ask you this. Do you need or want SB?
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I do fine without SB. And if I'm not getting it, I don't ask for it more than once. After that I'll just snap to the fact that I'm teamed with a poor kineticist, and play without SB.
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So if a player is contributing to the team without using SB, they're just a poor Kin? That's funny.
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Sure, kineticists bring more than just SB to the table-- in fact, I expect them to do a whole lot more than just SB. But if they don't SB, then a different buffer/debuffer (even a different kin) would very likely bring more to the table.
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So if a Kin is contributing to the team, but not SBing, you would still prefer a different one? That's even more funny.
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Like I said before, in my post on pg.2 of this ridiculous debate, my first 50 was a grav/kin, and at first it really bugged me that people constantly pestered me for SB. And I was defensive about it. And I told people that if they bothered me, I'd never SB them. And I explained all the things I was doing instead of just SBing them, and how important those things were.
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Oh?
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Watching buff icons isn't hard. They're color-coded. The emerald green one that matches the color of half the buttons in my tray, the one with the big ">" on it, is Speed Boost. I can tell at a casual glance whether someone has it or not, when it's flashing, and when the buffs need to be refreshed. And I refresh them, without being asked. And therefore, nobody ever bothers me about it. If they don't have it, they know they'll get it shortly if they just stay on task. They know this because I give them no reason to doubt it.
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Not playing with SB isn't hard either.
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I still do crowd control, kill bad guys, throw Fulcrum Shift, and heal the melee fighters when they're hurt. But I know that SBing teammates is a high-priority task, and I'm not slack about getting it done.
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The way I perceived this is that out of all the things a Kin can do, SBing everyone else is the most important task ever. It must be done.
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And the ones who think that they're so badass that they needn't bother SB'ing teammates? Aside from being arrogant, they're wrong.
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With Transference, FS, and all of the other goodies, you'll be killing mobs so fast that SB wouldn't be needed at all.
Kins that don't think players need SB aren't arrogant or wrong, they just don't need it.
I think your mistaking "cant" with "choose not to".
Your flailing badly and I think everyone can tell, because:
#1 I nor anyone else has said that SB wont make things faster. It will thats a fact.
#2 SB is not needed any more than perma-hasten is needed. Its nice but its a perk not required to play the game. This is also a fact.
#3 The only people who care enough to gripe if the entire team has perma-speed boost are the diehard gotta max our xp/drop/inf per second ratio. This is NOT a fact but i think its a dead on theory.
And the main reason I think your flailing around is because of #4 Instead of addressing any of my comments you default to the l33t player bible thats says "If any Dudz dont play your way its cuz they dont got teh sk1llz that you gotz cuzz der not as uber l33t as youz"
I could play your way, anyone could play your way actually. I could just put SB on auto and change targets while on auto follow if it was the be all end all of my job. But the fact is playing your way isnt required for success in CoH, not even close.
The only requirements to play the min/max way capitolizing on each and every power and buff in game to gain the maximum rewards possible in the shortest amount of time possible exist only in your narrow goal driven mind.
And the best you can do to debate this is attack my supposedly inferior playing skills?
Really?
Seriously?
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
To put it bluntly, yes.
You have poor attitude on teaming and you just aren't that good when it comes to it. That kind of attitude doesn't fly in the real world, but this is a video game and it's not all that serious. But you still are a poor team player.
If you can't/won't do one thing while other folks can and will in addition to doing what you do, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they are playing at a higher level than you and that they are better than you.
I don't see why you have fill pages upon pages of justification on why you choose to play at your level. That's the best you are willing to put forth, so be it. You are a poor kineticist when compared to other people more capable than you.
The only justification I have put forth is "I dont enjoy it so i'm not going to do it." This has nothing to do with skills as you well know. Your obfuscating my points because you dont like them. There simply is NO requirement to play in the most efficient way, the game simply isnt that hard. Well for me anyways.
I "can" drive my car 90 mph, i have the skills to do that. The fact I choose to drive 30 mph is a choice not a limit of ability. You would know this if you even attempted to read or understand what was posted. But you dont care to do that, much like I dont care to play in the min/max fashion you seem to think is required for success in CoH but cannot seem to explain why its required.
Because you choose to not explain your point or even comment on mine should I assume your unable to think or read or that you have simply made a choice about how to spend your time and effort?
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
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You are a poor kineticist when compared to other people more capable than you.
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So what your saying is I'm a worse kineticist than the people who are better kineticists than me....?
Seriously did you think that up yourself or did you get help?
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
Blah blah blah.
You might be a great person in real life but,
in game you are still a poor kineticist.
In other words the sole measure of the skills of a Kineticist is if he does or does not keep his team speed boosted. Ya know this will make my job soooo much easier now that I only ever have to worry about 1 power ever again.
I have been inspired and now I see the light. Where before I used all the powers in both my sets with occassional SB's and was a horrible horrible kineticist.
But now, NOW I have the wisdom that by using SB more often I have now gone from horrible to awesome. Heck I can probably drop all them other useless powers I used to spam now and 6 slot SB.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
Anyone who needs sb spam have their own problems, a kinetic is of far more use if they are playing a, you know, kinetic as opposed to a sb bot. I will actively avoid teams that broadcast "need a kin". Unless you are a stoner requiring SB is an indication of your own poor play not theirs. If you can do a better job go do it.
Totally missing the point and with another long irrelevant post. You somehow overlooked the "do everything else that a kineticist does" part in my comparison between other more capable kineticists and you.
If this really irks you then why not try a pure debuffer? No one ever spams GLUE ARROW PLZ!
Honestly, it's a ridiculous debate. If you don't speed boost occasionally, then I will take the kin that does what you do and on top of that also SB's. It's not hard. I've done so on a fire/kin. Seriously, keybind up, SB the team every third spawn (because it will be three or four spawns until the team needs it again, at least, with all the FS and SB going around everyone will be going at high speed.
I don't see what your problem is with that. If there is a kin that does everything you do, AND also finds the time to SB then, yes they are a better kin than you are Obsidian Force2. And I would prefer them on my team, even on my stone tanker that NEVER asks for SB because I've IO'd myself so I'll never need it.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
And as soon as you can show (from my post points that you ignored) why sb is NEEDED and not just wanted to maximize xp/drop/inf rates and why you believe powergamers are some sort of be all end all of playstyles everyone should adhere to I will be happy to take on your points. "
Until then its simply you saying "This is what I want to happen and everyone should just do it because everyone should always want to play in the maner and style I like best."
You keep saying what I say is pointless and its not. Its pointless to you because it doesnt support your views, your not able to refute any of it because you would come off as a control freak demanding everyone play in the most efficient manner simply because you want it that way.
So instead you ignore the valid points and skip reading them because you would have no other choice but to admit SB is not required for success in CoH.
And the reason nobody ever spams "GLUE ARROW PLZ" is because its not a buff, and alot of people in game feel entitled to be buffed at all times, they feel alot of powersets sole reason for existance is to make them better at whatever they do. And if you want to talk about bad team attitudes expecting, much less demanding any player in this game to dedicate their existance to your fun is as bad as it gets.
I'm sorry my posts are long I know reading and comprehension is hard but your not entitled to argue about points you havent read or just plain refuse to address because they dont support your narrow view of how others need to play their characters so it best benifits you.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
[ QUOTE ]
And as soon as you can show (from my post points that you ignored) why sb is NEEDED and not just wanted to maximize xp/drop/inf rates and why you believe powergamers are some sort of be all end all of playstyles everyone should adhere to I will be happy to take on your points. "
Until then its simply you saying "This is what I want to happen and everyone should just do it because everyone should always want to play in the maner and style I like best."
You keep saying what I say is pointless and its not. Its pointless to you because it doesnt support your views, your not able to refute any of it because you would come off as a control freak demanding everyone play in the most efficient manner simply because you want it that way.
So instead you ignore the valid points and skip reading them because you would have no other choice but to admit SB is not required for success in CoH.
And the reason nobody ever spams "GLUE ARROW PLZ" is because its not a buff, and alot of people in game feel entitled to be buffed at all times, they feel alot of powersets sole reason for existance is to make them better at whatever they do. And if you want to talk about bad team attitudes expecting, much less demanding any player in this game to dedicate their existance to your fun is as bad as it gets.
I'm sorry my posts are long I know reading and comprehension is hard but your not entitled to argue about points you havent read or just plain refuse to address because they dont support your narrow view of how others need to play their characters so it best benifits you.
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If there is a buffer on the team who took their buffs and I'm not buffed, there better be a good reason, like the emp ran out of people they could fort, or I wasn't slept so I didn't need CM, or I'm fighting an all psi enemy group so the FF bubbles won't be that useful. Otherwise they're not bringing enough to the team.
It's not just about faster XP/Loot/whatever. That's a stupid argument by the way. If there is someone on the team that can make a mission go faster thereby making it more safe (because an enemy can't attack you when they're dead) or refuses to make you more powerful when THEY took a buff set and you didn't, then they're not deserving of the spot on the team. I even expect scrankers who don't tank taunt, don't have tough, and have a crappy taunt aura (I've seen a lot of bad WP tanks lately) to make the team somewhat safer by at least taking the alpha.
You're the one who decided to take the buff on a buffing AND debuffing powerset (although it's buffs are far more noticable but that might just be my selfish nature talking :P) and decided only to not use all the powers.
TL;DR?
If you have SB use it on the team a coupel of times a mission. If you don't want to SB the team, don't take SB.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
There is only one solution.
Nerf Speed Boost.
That's right, I said it.