News flash: /kin has many other useful buffs!
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why play a kin if you don't wanna SB people?
[/ QUOTE ]
To have fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's fun to play a support class and not support?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hell, just from this comment alone, I feel like rolling a Kin, taking SB and not use it once. I would be using all of the other powers though.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why play a kin if you don't wanna SB people?
[/ QUOTE ]
To have fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's fun to play a support class and not support?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hell, just from this comment alone, I feel like rolling a Kin, taking SB and not use it once.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually I think by doing that, you would be emulating an awful lot of the kinetics players in the game these days. I've played entire TFs with */kin controllers who never, ever speed boosted anyone, even for AV battles. Unless they were asked, and then they either got snarky, or just speed boosted the one person who specifically asked.
The snarky ones are usually fire/kins who think that they're more powerful than their 7 teammates combined.
While playing my 50 BS/SD scrapper, I was invited to a farm as a fighting 50. Normally I don't care for farms, but the fire/kin who invited me was an old friend I played with years ago, so I joined. We split the map, me going up one side and him going up the other. I had a lowbie SK'd to me, who happened to be a kin with SB. So the lowbie followed me and just kept SB on me, did nothing else.
Not only did I rip up my side of the map faster than the fire/kin, but cleared the top of the map and met him part-way down his side. This was a purpled-out fire/kin who has been farming for years and AFAIK, was well-regarded as an efficient farmer. And I didn't just outpace him once, but two times in a row.
So, to all those who say, "Why should I SB youse guys when I can just kill everything myself?" I say, "SB me and I will show you."
So, again, to the kins out there: SB your teammates. It's probably the biggest difference you can make.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if it's a symptom of MA but lately all the MA teams I have made have have lazy kins (kins that never SB anyone). Why play a kin if you don't wanna SB people?
I have now started kicking lazy kins!
[/ QUOTE ]
If they Have it then they should Use it. If they Don't use it, then they should drop it and take something that they Will use.
Also: Lately?
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if it's a symptom of MA but lately all the MA teams I have made have have lazy kins (kins that never SB anyone). Why play a kin if you don't wanna SB people?
I have now started kicking lazy kins!
[/ QUOTE ]
Keep your blathering limited to one forum, you've already got one thread going that's identical to this one in the Controller board.
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. -F. Nietzsche
Virtueverse
Guide to Dark/Dark Defenders
I agree Winter, I have played two tanks to 50 (one being a rock tank), as well as a Scrapper and a troller. So its safe to say I love Kins and every move in the set (repel excluded). I never understood the naysayers posting things like "Keep sb to yourself", "No SB plz" etc. Due to excuses like "I like being able to see where I'm going". Ive had Super speed (which is faster than SB) on five characters and have run into zero problems controlling where I'm going. My best advice is to kick the lazy kins. More specifically if he/she's not buffing the team. But in general I have ran a kin defender to 30 and a /kins troller and have had no problems buffing teams.
You also have to keep in mind that most people suck at buffing teams. Which is pretty sad considering the extreme ease there is in clicking a button. Regardless someone will find a way to play any easy class with awful or little skill. A good kins is only asked for SB once, I have had people tell me I'm the best kins they've seen all because no buffs dropped (Fulcrum, ID, Siphon power). Its all about the player.
Next time just kick the player or warn him to do so or else hes kicked. I agree though the whole MA deal, has made many lazy (easy levels and all).
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
[ QUOTE ]
You also have to keep in mind that most people suck at buffing teams. Which is pretty sad considering the extreme ease there is in clicking a button.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem, I believe, is not that it's hard buffing a team (though the UI doesn't exactly help you a whole lot in pointing out when buffs need to be refreshed, so you either have to run HeroStats or watch out for your specific buff icon in a sea of other little buff icons, or run a kitchen timer, or use some other external aid).
The problem is more that constant and frequent rebuffing is tedious. It's exactly THAT buffing is so easy (but still needs to be done every couple of minutes for seven other team members) that makes it feel like an assembly line job for many, and not a fun part of playing the game. In short, it's tedium, not difficulty, that is the obstacle here.
I've had a lvl 45 emp a lvl 36 corr (Pain) and a lvl 50 troller. All buffs and heals included. I never had a problem rebuffing teams when needed. The "buff icon area" is quite helpful to me, as Kin powers are easily distinguishable from the rest. I don't know how buffing is hard when you even get the "blink" warning when they are about to wear off.
Now don't get me wrong, I've played WoW and undertsand the easy and very laid back feeling of 30 minute to hour buffs. But its one buff in this case (SB), two if you took ID. If your a defender I have no idea what your doing as I have healed and buffed accordingly. Honestly I feel its a matter of players that listen and players who know when to call the team in for buffs. Any good PuG will halt action for buffs. The word "gather" has become synonymous with teaming. Again its all player based. If the kins isn't really willing then thats exactly what you can expect...a lazy kins.
As far as herostats has to do with the matter, I've been playing since I3. Its comfortable, and informative, but its neither clutch or necessary. Though it is helpful for the new players coming in , I will say that I hope more add on's like it come out.
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
[ QUOTE ]
I've had a lvl 45 emp a lvl 36 corr (Pain) and a lvl 50 troller. All buffs and heals included. I never had a problem rebuffing teams when needed. The "buff icon area" is quite helpful to me, as Kin powers are easily distinguishable from the rest. I don't know how buffing is hard when you even get the "blink" warning when they are about to wear off.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying that it is hard, I just mentioned that the standard UI doesn't exactly help. The bigger point, anyway, is that the major problem in my opinion is tedium, not difficulty.
Yeah no one is saying it's difficult to buff a team.
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
qr
Now I build my guys to not require buffs as much as possible, so I don't need sb, but I still like it when it is offered, the same with other buffs.
Though I don't understand why anyone would take the power and never use it. If I grab a power I don't like I drop it for something I will use, unless it is required.
Though coming to the boards complaining won't do anything. The average player doesn't read the boards. All you do is bring up a topic that has been beat several times before.
Dirges
I'm always late to the party. Oh well.
[ QUOTE ]
Its like a blaster not blasting... why fill a spot with a kin that doesn't sb anyone? I didn't even suggest that the entire team be SB but not SB anyone is lazy. It takes seconds and helps the TEAM tremendously. So give me a break about tanks not helping the team... go be lazy somewhere else.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're right. These are exactly the same. Because Speed Boost is the only possible way a team can benefit significantly from having a Kineticist.
Chaos, it wouldn't look bad for any Kins. Why? Well I'll ask you this. Do you need or want SB?
Some people seem to be forgetting the difference between kins that sometime SB and those who NEVER. If you don't wanna SB anyone then just don't take the power.
[ QUOTE ]
Some people seem to be forgetting the difference between kins that sometime SB and those who NEVER. If you don't wanna SB anyone then just don't take the power.
[/ QUOTE ]
Even then -- a Kin who never uses Speed Boost ranks pretty darn low on my list of possible problem players. It is nothing that has ever bothered me or is likely to bother me.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some people seem to be forgetting the difference between kins that sometime SB and those who NEVER. If you don't wanna SB anyone then just don't take the power.
[/ QUOTE ]
Even then -- a Kin who never uses Speed Boost ranks pretty darn low on my list of possible problem players. It is nothing that has ever bothered me or is likely to bother me.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the OP would make a post about "OMG this kin didn't take SB wtf???"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why play a kin if you don't wanna SB people?
[/ QUOTE ]
To have fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's fun to play a support class and not support?
[/ QUOTE ]
Hell, just from this comment alone, I feel like rolling a Kin, taking SB and not use it once. I would be using all of the other powers though.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is why I run my own teams. I'll ask politely a few times to keep SB going. If it still doesn't happen, I blatantly tell him on team speak that I will kick him if he wont routinely SB.
[ QUOTE ]
Chaos, it wouldn't look bad for any Kins.
[/ QUOTE ]
What wouldn't look bad?
[ QUOTE ]
Why? Well I'll ask you this. Do you need or want SB?
[/ QUOTE ]
I do fine without SB. And if I'm not getting it, I don't ask for it more than once. After that I'll just snap to the fact that I'm teamed with a poor kineticist, and play without SB.
I'd never design a character not to be self-sufficient, or to rely on specific buffs. I'm a soloist first and a team player second. But I'm a good team player when I team, and SB is a huge force multiplier, so most of my toons are significantly stronger with it, especially the ones with really powerful buffs or attacks which are on long(ish) timers--like Shield Charge, Buildup, Fortitude, AM, Full Auto, OSA, RoA, and so on.
Sure, kineticists bring more than just SB to the table-- in fact, I expect them to do a whole lot more than just SB. But if they don't SB, then a different buffer/debuffer (even a different kin) would very likely bring more to the table.
Like I said before, in my post on pg.2 of this ridiculous debate, my first 50 was a grav/kin, and at first it really bugged me that people constantly pestered me for SB. And I was defensive about it. And I told people that if they bothered me, I'd never SB them. And I explained all the things I was doing instead of just SBing them, and how important those things were.
But at some point I turned a corner in my understanding, and realized that keeping up the buff on everyone is right up there with Fulcrum Shifting when it comes to the impact I can have on teamed play. So now, I save all the angst, and just take the time to keep people SB'd (within reason--I don't chase people around or follow some jackass who won't stay with the group).
Watching buff icons isn't hard. They're color-coded. The emerald green one that matches the color of half the buttons in my tray, the one with the big ">" on it, is Speed Boost. I can tell at a casual glance whether someone has it or not, when it's flashing, and when the buffs need to be refreshed. And I refresh them, without being asked. And therefore, nobody ever bothers me about it. If they don't have it, they know they'll get it shortly if they just stay on task. They know this because I give them no reason to doubt it.
I still do crowd control, kill bad guys, throw Fulcrum Shift, and heal the melee fighters when they're hurt. But I know that SBing teammates is a high-priority task, and I'm not slack about getting it done.
And that is the way a kin should be played on teams, no matter what else they're bringing to the table. And the ones who think that they're so badass that they needn't bother SB'ing teammates? Aside from being arrogant, they're wrong.
I agree with most of what Chaos said about sb. But I do want to note one thing. I absolutely hate when people ask me to sb them when in mission. Why? Because I pride myself on sbing the team, its part of what I bring. I have sb up on people nearly 100% of the time. I look for the flashing icons, and have sb bound to my numpad to make it extremely easy.
But there are lots of people that will start yelling for sb the second their icon flashes or if they are without if for more then 2 seconds. If you don't have sb from me in a team I'm on then one of four things has happened.
1) You strayed to far from me and I will only go so far from the current fight to get you.
2) I am afk and said so before hand, which means you can't read.
3) I was busy trying to get a heal off while someone was in the red, or trying to hold a boss going for a squishie etc... I am aware I didn't get to you while the icon was flashing, but I will shortly.
4) I'm dead.
I play on freedom, so I'm exposed to more players then people who play on other servers. But it never ceases to amaze me, even if I'm on a team for multiple missions and sb never once failed, I get yells for sb if its down for a second.
On a side note, I do hate kins who take the power and never use it. Can't tell you how many times I've taken my kin on teams where there are 2 or 3 of us, and I'm the only one sbing. They don't even have the courtesy to sb me!
Too many characters to fit in this space.
If you lay down and give up you have no one to blame but yourself. If you stand up and fight you'll have no one to blame because you've already won.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Chaos, it wouldn't look bad for any Kins.
[/ QUOTE ]
What wouldn't look bad?
[ QUOTE ]
Why? Well I'll ask you this. Do you need or want SB?
[/ QUOTE ]
I do fine without SB. And if I'm not getting it, I don't ask for it more than once. After that I'll just snap to the fact that I'm teamed with a poor kineticist, and play without SB.
I'd never design a character not to be self-sufficient, or to rely on specific buffs. I'm a soloist first and a team player second. But I'm a good team player when I team, and SB is a huge force multiplier, so most of my toons are significantly stronger with it, especially the ones with really powerful buffs or attacks which are on long(ish) timers--like Shield Charge, Buildup, Fortitude, AM, Full Auto, OSA, RoA, and so on.
Sure, kineticists bring more than just SB to the table-- in fact, I expect them to do a whole lot more than just SB. But if they don't SB, then a different buffer/debuffer (even a different kin) would very likely bring more to the table.
Like I said before, in my post on pg.2 of this ridiculous debate, my first 50 was a grav/kin, and at first it really bugged me that people constantly pestered me for SB. And I was defensive about it. And I told people that if they bothered me, I'd never SB them. And I explained all the things I was doing instead of just SBing them, and how important those things were.
But at some point I turned a corner in my understanding, and realized that keeping up the buff on everyone is right up there with Fulcrum Shifting when it comes to the impact I can have on teamed play. So now, I save all the angst, and just take the time to keep people SB'd (within reason--I don't chase people around or follow some jackass who won't stay with the group).
Watching buff icons isn't hard. They're color-coded. The emerald green one that matches the color of half the buttons in my tray, the one with the big ">" on it, is Speed Boost. I can tell at a casual glance whether someone has it or not, when it's flashing, and when the buffs need to be refreshed. And I refresh them, without being asked. And therefore, nobody ever bothers me about it. If they don't have it, they know they'll get it shortly if they just stay on task. They know this because I give them no reason to doubt it.
I still do crowd control, kill bad guys, throw Fulcrum Shift, and heal the melee fighters when they're hurt. But I know that SBing teammates is a high-priority task, and I'm not slack about getting it done.
And that is the way a kin should be played on teams, no matter what else they're bringing to the table. And the ones who think that they're so badass that they needn't bother SB'ing teammates? Aside from being arrogant, they're wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
100% spot on. Well put.
Also, I repeat:
Lately?
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
[ QUOTE ]
I have had people tell me I'm the best kins they've seen all because no buffs dropped (Fulcrum, ID, Siphon power).
[/ QUOTE ]
O_o
Okay... wait... how can you manage to get ID cover on a team of eight, and still have time to do... well, anything else?
I mean, it takes... what, 20 seconds to cover ID over seven teammates... and it only lasts 60. That one seems more self defeating than anything else!
Seriously, though... I make no promises to refresh SB in the middle of a battle, but otherwise, I try to keep it on my teammates.
On the other hand, I wish more people wouldn't go crazy when SB is on them. I swear, a little SB and a Tank thinks he's a scrapper... and often only realizes he's not when the SB ends, and he realizes that he's let the squishies die while he was in his SB-induced high.
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
Illusion/Kinetic here, and i'm not so bad [censored] I dont need to SB people, I just plain old dont want to be anyones buff bot so they can flex their muscles even harder and be the teams big star. No you do not get to suck up my FS then bemoan how i'm not maximizing YOUR playing.
I simply dont care if your getting the max outta your play because i'm busy getting the max outta MINE.
The sheer entitlement is simply silly. I'm not playing the game to make your pimped out scrapper easy and fun to play, i'm certainly not playing so you can flex and say "See how awesome I am?".
I will simply have to accept I'm a horrible buffer, but then again I didnt make the Illusion/kinetic controller to be a buffer, I made it because "I" would enjoy playing it and maxing out what "I" can do with MY controls and damage.
It simply isnt my job to make your play experience more fun and easy for you any more than its yours to make my controlling and damage better by expecting you to play micromanager with YOUR powers for my explicit benifit reguardless of how much it sucks for you and your fun. PERIOD. No exceptions.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
Yea, you're a crappy buffer.
If you have unfilled potential to improve the Team as a WHOLE and you choose not to do it in order to maximize your Own play (on a Controller no less, but it applies to any AT), you are playing selfishly and are in fact choosing to gimp yourself and your team.
Yea, you have the right to build and play how you choose, but I have the right not to team with you if I think your playstyle is holding the team back.
[ QUOTE ]
It simply isnt my job to make your play experience more fun and easy for you any more than its yours to make my controlling and damage better by expecting you to play micromanager with YOUR powers for my explicit benifit reguardless of how much it sucks for you and your fun. PERIOD. No exceptions.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is the Essence of good team play to take notice of your teammates powers and adjust your strategy in order to find a balance that maximizes everyone on the team. Anything less is just selfish and lazy.
TLDR: If you're not going to SB your teammates then don't take the power.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
[ QUOTE ]
Illusion/Kinetic here, and i'm not so bad [censored] I dont need to SB people, I just plain old dont want to be anyones buff bot so they can flex their muscles even harder and be the teams big star. No you do not get to suck up my FS then bemoan how i'm not maximizing YOUR playing.
I simply dont care if your getting the max outta your play because i'm busy getting the max outta MINE.
The sheer entitlement is simply silly. I'm not playing the game to make your pimped out scrapper easy and fun to play, i'm certainly not playing so you can flex and say "See how awesome I am?".
I will simply have to accept I'm a horrible buffer, but then again I didnt make the Illusion/kinetic controller to be a buffer, I made it because "I" would enjoy playing it and maxing out what "I" can do with MY controls and damage.
It simply isnt my job to make your play experience more fun and easy for you any more than its yours to make my controlling and damage better by expecting you to play micromanager with YOUR powers for my explicit benifit reguardless of how much it sucks for you and your fun. PERIOD. No exceptions.
[/ QUOTE ]
And it isn't my job to let you play on my team, or to finish my ITF/STF/LGTF/whatever. If that's your tude brother, you can go play by yourself. *kick*
Edit: perhaps one day, instead of being jealous when someone whom you've speed-boosted "Flexes their muscles even harder" and becomes "the team's big star," you'll realize that team play is cooperative, that everybody's job is to help everybody else, and that the big stars wouldn't be shining nearly so brightly if it weren't for you.
On the other hand, you may never come to this realization, or even if you do, you may never be satisfied with it.
Either way, it's you who has the silly sense of entitlement: that you can join a team and be so unilaterally concerned with your own playstyle and refuse to adapt to those of your teammates.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why play a kin if you don't wanna SB people?
[/ QUOTE ]
To have fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's fun to play a support class and not support?