What's with all the lazy kins lately?

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and why wouldn't you spam taunt constantly as a tanker?

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Because if you've already locked all the aggro down tight it won't actually accomplish anything. Unless you're playing Willpower and have a weak taunt aura then anything in melee of you is going to stay locked on you unless you completely stop attacking. (AV's excepted here; Taunt is needed to guarantee you keep their aggro, but once every 20 some seconds is plenty.)

Let's look at it this way... spamming Taunt on mobs you already have locked solidly down in your aura is like constantly spamming SB on the same person every 5 seconds... it's a waste in other words. Hitting Taunt on a mob over there that just aggro'd on a blaster? Heck yeah, that's what the power's for. Same with SB, ideally you'll be refreshing it sometime in the last 10 seconds of it's duration. Refreshing it after only a few seconds is a waste of time.

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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

ok explain to me why people expect sb to be spammed, but dont spam taunt. I would rather have one tanker spamming taunt than 5 kins spamming sb on me. Awesome you said you dont use taunt every group, but wouldnt that make you a better tank if you did. I mean its a usefull power.... thats all im trying to figure out. If spamming a power on one AT that makes the group more effective as a whole, then wouldnt spamming another power that enables the group to focus on damage instead of healing or buffs make it just as effective? Hey if you spam taunt mabye the kin will have time to spam speed boost...

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Death Wolf-50 Blaster- Energy/Engery/Force
Gabriel Delane-38 Scrapper- Dual Blades/Willpower

Hidden Shadow-50 Stalker- Katana/Regen/Soul
Lucian Nightwolf-50 Brute- Energy/Electric/Soul

Hero Super Group- Paragon City Maltia

Villian Super Group- Arachnos Legal Division

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And transference would help waaay more than sb.

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When Transference puts Hasten on teammates and renders them immune to slows, in addition to filling up the blue bar, then it will be better than Speed Boost.

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Hell not every kin even slots for endurance. That's what most folks fail to realize.

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Apparently you fail to realize that the +recovery aspect of SB is far less important than the +recharge.

If I SB an emp, the emp can cover an extra teammate with Fortitude, and probably perma-AB on one teammate. And the RA team buffs will be in effect much more of the time. Due to the +recharge.

If I SB a TA/A defender, he will be able to use powers like Oil Slick Arrow and Rain of Arrows much more often, and will be able to stack debuffs like Disruption Arrow for huge amounts of -res. Because of the +recharge.

If I SB a scrapper, the scrapper can use Buildup/Soul Drain more often, and his heavy-hitting attacks more often. Not to mention any self-heals or defensive self-buffs he may have. He will do more damage, and get a survival boost. Because of the +recharge.

If I SB a blaster, the blaster can use Aim/Buildup more often, can nuke more often, and will recover from nuking faster. Due tot he +recharge (and the +recovery).

If I SB a tank, any clickable self-heals he has will recharge faster, which will increase his survivability dramatically. Also, like the scrapper, he will do more damage. And he will be able to taunt more enemies if need be.

Now consider what happens if I buff all of them. This is why SB is a "force multiplier" and not just a damage buff like Fulcrum Shift or an endurance recovery tool like Transference.

So yes, it makes teams better. No matter how good they already are.

The level of ignorance the "I won't SB!" folks are bringing to this thread is astounding.

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I think your missing my point. We both agree that its a tanks job to hold aggro and taunt, and that its a kins job to boost and provide support. What im saying is just because the kin isnt spamming sb doesnt mean there not a good kin. You said yourself you dont taunt every group, but its a handy tool. SB holds a place in the tray of allmost every kin. Why? Because its a valuable tool when needed. Its up to the individual player to decide when that tool is neeed, and how to best put it to use. Just like taunt is a valuable tool....when needed


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What I was getting at was that a tanker is there to maximize the team's effectiveness by holding aggro and dealing damage thereby freeing the rest of the team from having to worry about aggro. The Kin maximizes the team's effectiveness by several means as well, and the recharge buff from SB is one of the set's most powerful means of doing that. The whole point being that giving an entire team significantly more recharge means that attacks recharge faster allowing for more damage/buff/debuff output.


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Point still missed. The Kin maximizes the team's effectiveness by several means as well

Thank you for agreeing that someone who isn't spamming SB doesn't mean the controller isn't maximizing the team's effectiveness.

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We're comparing apples to oranges here with Fulcrum vs SB, both are buffs and team efficiency boosts but they accomplish it in different ways. And there's nothing stopping you from having and using both powers... you're playing below your peak if you do.


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Wrong. Fulcrum is a "team buff" or "team efficiency boost". SB is NOT. SB is an ally buff (meaning the kin gets zero benefit from it).


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SB recharges in 2 seconds and takes 1 second to cast... you'll spend roughly 21 seconds every 2 minutes keeping SB on 7 teammates. That leaves over a minute and a half free to do other things like blast, control, pop Fulcrum, hit Transference/Transfusion or whatever else you need to do. It almost never is an either/or situation with using SB or some other power; you should have plenty of time to do BOTH and that 50% recharge bonus makes a very noticeable difference. There's no time in combat when a team won't benefit from that recharge buff.


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When you're already steamrolling over your opponents, subtracting a couple seconds from the mission accomplishes nothing.

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Early game SB makes the difference between your scrappers and blasters having a complete attack chain and having gaps while waiting for powers to recharge. Later on it allows them to use their heavy hitter attacks more often and avoid having to use lower damage "filler" attacks thus increasing their DPS... this is regardless of what other recharge boosts they may have. It's like the old Scrapper saying on recharge, until your attack chain is Headsplitter, Headsplitter, Headsplitter then you need more recharge .


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So it's the /Kin's fault that his allies didn't properly slot for +recharge?

NO!

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Is having SB drop in the middle of combat for a few seconds a disaster? Of course not; but the more consistently you can maintain the buff the better your teams overall kill speed will be. You want your team using their most powerful abilities as often as they can; you have the ability to give them almost 2 more SO's of recharge for every power, unaffected by ED. Why wouldn't you want that?

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If you're going to min-max, alert your teammates first so they know what to expect. Ragging on someone because they didn't play up to your unvoiced "standard" is silly. And if they, and your teammates are happy with the pace of the mission you have exactly Richard to say about it.

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ok explain to me why people expect sb to be spammed, but dont spam taunt. I would rather have one tanker spamming taunt than 5 kins spamming sb on me. Awesome you said you dont use taunt every group, but wouldnt that make you a better tank if you did. I mean its a usefull power.... thats all im trying to figure out. If spamming a power on one AT that makes the group more effective as a whole, then wouldnt spamming another power that enables the group to focus on damage instead of healing or buffs make it just as effective? Hey if you spam taunt mabye the kin will have time to spam speed boost...

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No, you wouldn't rather one tanker spamming Taunt... you want one tanker holding all the aggro the team is generating. Those are two entirely different things.

As a tanker my primary purpose is to hold aggro. Spamming Taunt on mobs I ALREADY have a solid aggro lock on is pointless. If something I DON'T have a lock on suddenly aggros then sure I'm going to grab that aggro using whatever tools are appropriate.

Same thing with a Kin, SB is an incredible +recharge buff for the team and helps immensely in the team's efficiency. Spamming SB every few seconds on the same teammate is pointless though; the buff lasts for 2 minutes and all you're doing is refreshing the buff, not increasing it by spamming it too often.

A tanker who has all the aggro under control and locked onto him cannot improve the team's efficiency by spamming Taunt on mobs he already has under control. He can increase the efficiency by contributing to the damage at that point.

A Kinetic who already has SB up on the team likewise can't improve the efficiency by spamming SB... so he does other things until the last 20 seconds or so of the buff's duration, then he refreshes SB on the team.

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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

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In the end, it never makes sense when a player declines a famous buff.

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SB may boost my attack rate. That's great. I like that. But the side-effects of super-speed are very detrimental to my performance in a fluid combat environment because control over my positioning degrades dramatically.

Thus, I usually request that a Kin withhold SB from me until I'm either:

A: In the middle of a positively huge mob where all I really need to do is turn around.

B: Shaking hands with the Big Bad's face.



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Again, I enjoy using SB because it boosts my ability to flip out and kill stuff. But I'm somewhat selective in when I use it.

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SB is an ally buff (meaning the kin gets zero benefit from it).

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This is the real reason behind all the *I won't SB* sentiment.

I see a lot people claim that they are using other kinetic powers to help the team in lieu of SB to justify why they can't be bothered to SB once in a while. If Fulcrum was changed to a short interval, rapid recharging 200% damage buff for allies only I bet people will start coming up with excuses not to use that too.

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it never makes sense when a player declines a famous buff.

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Because not everyone has a super fancy computer. I know that may sound crazy, but it's true.

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The level of ignorance the "I won't SB!" folks are bringing to this thread is astounding.

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lol. That's funny. Just like how a player who doesn't use SB also happens to be a bad Kin.

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Yep. Relative to any kin who takes the time to SB.

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It's almost like saying a Tank who doesn't pick up Taunt is bad.

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A tank without Taunt can still control aggro.

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And players without SB can still kill things, and a Kin who doesn't SB can still constribute to the team.

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A person with just brawl can kill things and contribute to the team. But not as much as a person with brawl and SB.

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A better example: my grav/kin has Propel, and it does a fair amount of damage. And it's very fun to 1-shot a vampire with a coffin to the face.

But any time I use Propel instead of SBing an unbuffed blaster, I've given the enemy less hell.

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I doubt we've teamed, W_R, but just to be on the safe side, please just put me on your global ignore.

@Samuraiko

Why? I'm a lvl 50 grav/kin who did not take SB. For my own reasons. So... yeah. Just put me on gignore and we're good.

Thanks.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

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This is the real reason behind all the *I won't SB* sentiment.

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No. It's a reason why someone working a solo build wouldn't take it.

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If Fulcrum was changed to a short interval, rapid recharging 200% damage buff for allies only I bet people will start coming up with excuses not to use that too.

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Oh grow up. If you want to tell another player how to play, go ahead and pay for his subscription fee. Until then, the very worst you can do is boot them from your team. However, this is likely doing the person a favor, as they don't have to put up with people insisting that they're "playing wrong".

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And a /Kin controller without SB can still control and buff the team in other ways.

A Kin/ defender can still defend and buff the team in other ways.

Your point?

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I doubt we've teamed, W_R, but just to be on the safe side, please just put me on your global ignore.

@Samuraiko

Why? I'm a lvl 50 grav/kin who did not take SB. For my own reasons. So... yeah. Just put me on gignore and we're good.

Thanks.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

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/threadwin.

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You still miss the point. That it's their toon. NOT YOURS.

If they wish to forego a power to buff themselves or the team in another way it's none of your business. If you don't like it, don't team with them. Do them that favor.

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You still miss the point. That it's their toon. NOT YOURS.

If they wish to forego a power to buff themselves or the team in another way it's none of your business. If you don't like it, don't team with them. Do them that favor.

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Absolutely. Something I can completely agree with.

They can build however they like, however build decisions and play decisions do carry consequences. Good players are remembered, poor players are as well and I try to maximize the good to bad ratio of players I team with. A Kin who doesn't have or use SB probably won't get booted from my team, it takes more than that for me to kick someone. However, they also won't be picked for the team next time.

A Kin who keeps buffs up, handles all the other various chores of the powerset and is a competent player? Definitely a place on my "look to invite again" list. One who is hit or miss on buffs but isn't a complete waste of time? A place on the "adequate" list. One who can't be bothered to buff? A place on the "don't invite again" list, but unless they're disruptive not a kick. One who not only can't be bothered to buff but gets snippy about it? >Kick<.

Just like when I'm playing one of my squishies if we get a good tanker I will certainly remember and try to recruit them again. If we get a bad tanker I will also remember and won't recruit them next time.

On rare occasions I'll keep a really, REALLY bad player around if the team can handle the dead weight and if the bad player is entertaining enough. I remember one character, a level 50 "tank" who had taken a grand total of 2 powers from his primary... naturally his aura and mez were NOT among those. Yet he still insisted on Leeeroy!! at every group and couldn't figure out why he kept dying. Of course he was always one group ahead of the rest of us so we couldn't keep him alive, nor, after the 3rd death were we inclined to do so. Naturally the rest of the team couldn't possibly know anything about his powersets so they could be safely ignored when they tried to offer advise. After all, we were playing Controllers so what could we know about tankers?

Well, we just let him get faceplanted, then we would move up to the group he died in, someone would toss a mutation his way and we'd continue on. We were facing Council Empire in one of the portal missions. I lost track of his faceplants after 20; for the record the rest of us (6 'trollers) didn't have a single close call. His constant excuses for his frailty (I think the longest he lasted against +1 Council was less than 10 seconds) really got to be funny.

"You're too squishy, I need to go in first!"
"I'm the best tanker in the game!"
"What happened?"
"Rez me, if I'm not there you'll die!"

He was, of course, complete dead weight, but he was entertaining. Oh, he was Inv/Stone, just like CMA. Of course I couldn't possibly have anything to tell him about his build. He had, as I recall:
RPD
Res Elements
4 travel powers
Most of the /Stone Melee attacks... except Fault of course.

There may have been something else in there somewhere but that captures the essence of his so-called build. He was level 50 and his name was Beastly something or other on Pinnacle. I've run across him a couple of times since, and his build hasn't improved any.

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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

This thread needs some serious zen.

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A Kin who doesn't have or use SB probably won't get booted from my team, it takes more than that for me to kick someone. However, they also won't be picked for the team next time.

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Nice to know you define an entire power class by a single power within it.

Note, please, that I'm not saying you HAVE to team with these people. That's your prerogative. I just find the definition being tossed around for a "gimped" or "lazy" Kin somewhat self-serving at best.

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This is the real reason behind all the *I won't SB* sentiment.

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No. It's a reason why someone working a solo build wouldn't take it.

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If Fulcrum was changed to a short interval, rapid recharging 200% damage buff for allies only I bet people will start coming up with excuses not to use that too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh grow up. If you want to tell another player how to play, go ahead and pay for his subscription fee. Until then, the very worst you can do is boot them from your team. However, this is likely doing the person a favor, as they don't have to put up with people insisting that they're "playing wrong".

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Frankly, I could care less about your solo build, it's irrelevant to the topic of teaming. Besides, I'm not even talking about people that choose not to take the power in the first place. I'm talking about people that have it but don't use it. Either way you have not proven my diagnosis wrong yet.

I don't see how your second comment is relevant to my hypothesis at all. I'm simply saying it's the nature of a lot of people that play this game to only use powers that affect themselves in a team environment.

I find it ridiculous that people will throw a fit make the claim that they are just as good or valuable on a team as another that manages to do more than they do. I'm not telling them how to play, they've made their choice. I'm just telling them to stop kidding themselves.

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I personally loathe speed boost. None of my characters are /kin, and none ever will be. Generally speaking, Speed Boost is less than useless to me. I don't care about recharge - I've either slotted my powers to handle it already, or I've *avoided* it because I'm dealing with endurance issues. Out of nearly thirty characters, I believe I have two with Hasten or Superspeed, and well probably burn a freespec to get rid of it from them, in favor of a power I'll actually use.

Personally, I wish there was a way to dismiss "beneficial" buffs, like in the "evil" MMO with the orcs and humans. And to those self-righteous /kin players who shout "I'm doing you a favor, take it and be happy!" No, you're not. I'll ask nicely once. And then you're costing the team whatever buffs/debuffs/dps I was bringing, because I'll have sent a /tell to the leader saying "Thanks for the team, but I gone." And then I will be.

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