As I've said before. The prospect is entirely situational.
Yes, in some instances, the team will perform sub-optimally. In others, it won't make a difference. And in some, it could cause a rash of face-plants.
Use, misuse, and disuse of a large number of powers across a broad swath of power pools could be said to have these same effects.
My problem isn't that I disagree that the person probably isn't contributing as much to the team as someone who has and uses that specific power. My problem lies with you looking down on those who choose to play their own way. Gimped or otherwise.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Let's turn things on their side so to speak... Let's say the Kin can't be bothered to take or use Fulcrum Shift instead of SB. Would you say that he was still contributing as much as one who did? How about the Empath who skips Fortitude, would you say they were providing the same benefit as one who didn't?
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As long as the said Empath who doesn't have Fort or the Kin who skipped FS are contributing to the team and help killing the mobs, I don't care what powers they pick.
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As I've said before. The prospect is entirely situational.
Yes, in some instances, the team will perform sub-optimally. In others, it won't make a difference. And in some, it could cause a rash of face-plants.
Use, misuse, and disuse of a large number of powers across a broad swath of power pools could be said to have these same effects.
My problem isn't that I disagree that the person probably isn't contributing as much to the team as someone who has and uses that specific power. My problem lies with you looking down on those who choose to play their own way. Gimped or otherwise.
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Your right. The powers someone chooses for their toon to play is their business... if their playing solo. However, this is a team oriented game. Teams, based upon their size, increase spawn size and difficulty, and your choice of selection and utilization of powers can have repercussions to a team. In that situation, how you play your toon and the powers you select is my business.
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Yes, in some instances, the team will perform sub-optimally. In others, it won't make a difference.
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See, this is just horse [censored].
It doesn't take a sub-optimal team or a sub-optimal build to benefit from Speed Boost.
Anybody with a click heal benefits. Anybody with powerful attacks benefits. Anybody with Aim or Buildup benefits. Anybody with buffs that can only be kept perma on a couple people benefits (and so do those they buff). Anybody with AoE controls benefits.
Anybody and everybody benefits, except in the case of those who can't adequately control the unsuppressed movement. Generally this is a product of being buffed with SB that's slotted for run speed, which a lot of kins mistakenly do, but I suppose that even the base movement speed buff can be difficult for those who have framerate issues or lots of unsuppressed +runspeed, or those who need very precise positioning for one reason or another.
As for the nonsense about running out of endurance because of too much recharge, SB slotted with just 1 endmod will provide more than enough +recovery to offset the +recharge.
This nonsensical implication that only "sub-optimal" teams will get any benefit from SB, and on better teams "it won't make a difference" is just bull.
Kid yourself all you want, if you need to fool yourself to justify skipping SB.
But you're not fooling your teammates.
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They can build however they like, however build decisions and play decisions do carry consequences. Good players are remembered, poor players are as well and I try to maximize the good to bad ratio of players I team with. A Kin who doesn't have or use SB probably won't get booted from my team, it takes more than that for me to kick someone. However, they also won't be picked for the team next time.
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Well, different strokes for different folks.
One of the reasons I'm currently playing City of Heroes and am not, say, raiding hardmode Ulduar bosses was that my husband and I decided a couple of years ago that compulsory minmaxing was having a deleterious effect on our gaming experience. Not necessarily because it was too tedious for us (though some of the extremes were), but because it had a bad effect on how the people we played with approached the game, doing something that had to be done, and not something they wanted to do.
I'm still generally playing to the best of my abilities (old habits die hard), but I honestly couldn't care less if a team's effectiveness is not quite maximized because of some non-minmaxed choices somebody makes. I'm fine with just about anything as long as we are successful. I.e., our enemies go down and we don't (at least in general, I like an element of challenge, and you don't have a challenge if you can't possibly lose). But minmaxing to a degree where the only difference is that we may be steamrolling a mission x% faster strikes me as inconsequential. Unlike succeeding vs. failing, this is a difference in degree, not in kind. And because of previous experiences in other MMORPGs, I am very conscious of the fun/benefit tradeoff. Some benefits simply may not be worth the reduction in fun they bring with them, and I have no problem with that.
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how you play your toon and the powers you select is my business.
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You've got that half-right.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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See, this is just horse [censored].
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If it's any consolation, I don't require that you agree with me.
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It doesn't take a sub-optimal team or a sub-optimal build to benefit from Speed Boost.
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A good thing that this is NOT what I said then.
What I said is that a team "might" perform better due to differences in power choices. Sometimes the difference will be dramatic, sometimes it won't.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Well I currently have 2 kins and I can safely say that I SB on a regular basis and when I don't it's because I was distracted by a shiny object. 
My only thing is thus... give the kin time to SB. I can't tell you how many times I've been traveling down the list when someone asks, over and over again for SB, usually while they still have it.
Being a kin is like being a healer, there is a lot going on OTHER Than just SBing things, like helping heal, de-buffing etc. (NO I didn't NOT say that kins where "healers". I said "LIKE". Anything that has to 'hit' to heal is not a "healer" in my personal use of the term)
See I got distracted again... my point.... before you criticize any AT/powerset, you should try it first, you know... walk a mile in their shoes, it isn't just about being an SB dealer when you play a kin.
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the powers you select is my business.
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Wrong. So wrong I don't even know how to put it in words other than you're wrong. How the person constributes to the team is your business. How the person builds their toon shouldn't be.
Full circle it seems....
Lets face it, there are a handfull of people here who think by having a /Kin on the team, they're entitled to SB at all times. Infact, its probably safe to say a lot of those people invite /kins for that single purpose.
Call me greedy, call me selfish, call me a "bad" kin. Call me whatever you want. I decide who gets SB and who doesnt.
Period.
If you don't like it, kick me off the team and find yourself another buffbot.
Chaos has it spot on, should write a guide, be 5 starred and stickied, and get a special forum title 'KingKin'.
I can't say it any better than he has to you folks who don't understand the potency of said buff.
Go re read his posts, please.
Here's what Hephaestus posted on the thread in the Controller forums. This sums up how I feel.
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You know, I don't think the kins who try to SB the team either before every mob or before every other mob are what anyone is complaining about. I don't think anyone here expects a kin controller to really keep SB up all the time on every team member. I know that I don't.
However, I have seen a faitr number of kins that actually NEVER SB any team members, unless there is a stone tank, and even then only when the stoner requests it. They took SB for their fire imps, and that is all they use it on. The discussion here seems to mostly be with one side saying that those kins would generally be of more help to accomplishing team goals if they spent a little more time doing SB on teammembers (like every other mob or two), while the other side says that they should be allowed to play the game the way they most enjoy it. Both of which are quite valid points, IMO, and not mutually contradictory. That is, not mutually contradictory if you don't read more into them then I wrote here.
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Nobody's arguing the potency.
NOBODY.
And I repeat for good measure N O B O D Y.
What is being argued about is the selfish assumption that it's "the job" of a /Kin to play buff-bot.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
I still find it rather comical how so many people rely on this single buff for their toons performance. Its almost as if so say....my toon sucks without it.
IMO, that's your problem, not mine and quite honestly, I rather not play on a team needing constant buffing to succeed. Now, upper lvl TFs and AV fights are not included. I'm talking about simple missions or farming. If you can't get through a common mission w/o the need of SB, you suck more than me for not having given you the buff you "need" to succeed.
and if its not "needed" then its "wanted" and I surely dont feel the need to fill everyone want list when I play.
I'm well aware of the potency of the buff and the numeric increase to damage for the team it provides. As you might be able to tell from my sig.
Demanding a buff or a playstyle from a pug invite is another thing entirely. as mentioned by others this game is not so difficult that it requires bleeding edge performance for anything resembling success.
For me and many others relaxing and enjoying the game are worth more than powergaming. And frankly if you "need" the buff there is more of a problem with your build than the kin's proficiency.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
There are no shades of gray. No one complains about Kins who SB some of the time. Hell, i don't even complain about kins that don't SB that don't HAVE SB. I do, however, think that if you have SB, and have joined a team, whether yo'ure a controller or not, you should try to SB some of the time. I'm not saying turn yourself into a buff bot. I'm not saying babysit your teams blue bars. I'm saying every third, or fourth or fifth mob take a moment and SB the team.
You have a tool to make the team better. It's sitting in your tray. It's not even about min/maxing. It's about what you're doing to make the team better. Yeah, you're right, you're doing other things too, and I appreciate that. But if you ahve the tool, and you're not using it and I ask for it and the person says "lol, you should have built for +recharge and +recovery" at level 24, that person gets kicked.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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How the person constributes to the team is your business. How the person builds their toon shouldn't be.
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There are tankers without status protection. There are controllers without holds. There are defenders with no contributing abilities beyond a PBAE heal and leadership toggles. While I think the lack of speedboost among kineticists is a fairly minor infraction as far as that goes, there is a point where a teammate's power choices are the business of the rest of the team. Where that point exists can obviously be debated, but I think this thread has done a good job at pointing out the types of people that throw a fuss about that sort of thing in-game.
I wouldn't mind inviting a controller without holds, for example, but kicking one when being harrased by tsoo sorcerers or BP shaman isn't something I'd wince at, either. It's much harder for me to imagine speedboost being that vital, though.
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Everyone [censored] about kins not using speed boost is an idiot. Fulcrum Shift is much more important. lrn2ply
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I have played several Kins myself, including a Mind/Kin controller to 50. I know well just what a well played Kin can bring to the team. Speed Boost is a rather large part of just what a Kin can bring however... it's like an Empath not bothering to use Fortitude.
[/ QUOTE ] Your comparison sucks. Fulcrum shift is much better than speed boost, therefore it should be compared to Fortitude since it is an emp's best power.
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Everyone [censored] about kins not using speed boost is an idiot. Fulcrum Shift is much more important. lrn2ply
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Fulcrum Shift only applies a large damage buff to those in melee range when the power is activated. Everybody else gets a small buff, or none at all. Additionally, those (like DM/SD scrappers, blasters with Aim & Buildup) who can get very near the damage cap on their own get little benefit from FS.
SB benefits everyone all the time--and not just damage output, but AoE controls, heals, buffs, debuffs--everything.
Fulcrum Shift is awesome, but it's a one-trick pony. SB is not.
l2think before you spout more nonsense.
Once you use Fulcrum Shift a second time, it's not as good?
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Everyone [censored] about kins not using speed boost is an idiot. Fulcrum Shift is much more important. lrn2ply
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Fulcrum Shift only applies a large damage buff to those in melee range when the power is activated. Everybody else gets a small buff, or none at all. Additionally, those (like DM/SD scrappers, blasters with Aim & Buildup) who can get very near the damage cap on their own get little benefit from FS.
SB benefits everyone all the time--and not just damage output, but AoE controls, heals, buffs, debuffs--everything.
Fulcrum Shift is awesome, but it's a one-trick pony. SB is not.
l2think before you spout more nonsense.
[/ QUOTE ] Wrong. Putting even a couple teammates at the damage cap increases killing speed dramatically. You don't need any of your powers recharging as fast if all the enemies are defeated within five seconds of the team reaching them.
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Once you use Fulcrum Shift a second time, it's not as good?
[/ QUOTE ] Once you use Speed Boost a second time(from the same person), it does nothing?
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You don't need any of your powers recharging as fast if all the enemies are defeated within five seconds of the team reaching them.
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On the contrary, that is when you need fast recharge the most. Foot Stomp, RoA, Shield Charge, Full Auto, and other heavy-hitting AoEs up for every spawn, even when the spawns are going down in seconds. That 5-second-per-spawn kill rate doesn't often happen with just FS. But it often does with FS and SB.
Perhaps your argument would hold a thimbleful of water if the two buffs were mutually exclusive. But, they aren't. A kin can SB and FS, and good ones do just that.
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A Kin who doesn't have or use SB probably won't get booted from my team, it takes more than that for me to kick someone. However, they also won't be picked for the team next time.
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Nice to know you define an entire power class by a single power within it.
Note, please, that I'm not saying you HAVE to team with these people. That's your prerogative. I just find the definition being tossed around for a "gimped" or "lazy" Kin somewhat self-serving at best.
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I have played several Kins myself, including a Mind/Kin controller to 50. I know well just what a well played Kin can bring to the team. Speed Boost is a rather large part of just what a Kin can bring however... it's like an Empath not bothering to use Fortitude. Sure he can contribute in other ways, but he's neglecting a major team force multiplier. It isn't the +end of SB that's most valuable for a mature build, it's the additional recharge.
But I've said all this before and at this point I'm not sure if you genuinely don't understand just how much that 21 seconds of effort every 2 minutes buys the team or you're deliberately being contrary. Apparently you've made up your mind that somehow a Kinetic doesn't need SB to provide maximum benefit to the team... and that's simply dead wrong. He can contribute certainly, but he's not going to provide the same level of contribution that a Kin who uses SB does.
Let's turn things on their side so to speak... Let's say the Kin can't be bothered to take or use Fulcrum Shift instead of SB. Would you say that he was still contributing as much as one who did? How about the Empath who skips Fortitude, would you say they were providing the same benefit as one who didn't?
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes