I support this idea.
I also feel that such changes should be taken on a case-by-case basis. In my opinion, this is a case that deserves such recognition.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
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BTW, tomorrow night is Tanker Tuesday, and everybody is welcome as long as you play a Tank, any kind, any level.
It'll be extra fun if I14 goes live.
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Yes, and we tend to throw rocks at the other ATs when they show up. Big chunks of pavement, actually...
As far as the plaque idea is concerned, I am all for it if the Devs want to place one for Tanker Tuesday and will not lose a wink of sleep if they don't. I attend them neither for recognition nor for reward, so either way. Tanker Tuesday is about Tanker players getting together and having fun and not having recognition will not change that. 
Although, a plaque with something like "Tanker Tuesday, Home of the Ringslide" would really work. 
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And this is how people should feel. The whole "I've been in it for years. We need a plaque!!!" Is nothing but self-serving and concieted. As Bill and others have said, RO has done more then TT ever has. Yet you don't see RO in here saying "We need a plaque because we are so cool!"
TT is something that happens on champion server. I have never seen it announced anywhere else, in fact I haven't even seen it in the player events section in a while. Maybe I missed it in there, but I doubt it.
I agree with bill and just don't see a reason for a permanant addition to the game.
edit: I did go search in case I missed it and saw an announcement for feb and a post for march on the day of. Nothing for this month so far though.
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And this is how people should feel. The whole "I've been in it for years. We need a plaque!!!" Is nothing but self-serving and concieted. As Bill and others have said, RO has done more then TT ever has. Yet you don't see RO in here saying "We need a plaque because we are so cool!"
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I know many of the proponents of this idea personally, and though we've not kept in touch for a couple years, I can say with a clear conscience that I highly doubt any single one of them is supporting this cause from a self-serving or self-aggrandizing platform. These are some of the most selfless gamers I've ever had the pleasure to share time with and the automatic assumption that they are trying to somehow profit from this or otherwise congratulate themselves says far more about the accuser than the accused.
Now, I emcee'd the majority of the first 30 or so TANKER TUESDAYS, and I suppose you could call me the founder if you are the type that needs to point fingers. But let me be clear, it is woefully inaccurate to point to any one person or SG as being responsible for the success and longevity of TANKER TUESDAY. From the very start it was a community effort, done by the Tanker Community for the community as a whole. I am not even sure you could count the number of tankers that were created just for participation in that event, by persons otherwise uninterested in tanking or from entirely different servers. Tanker Tuesday's have been encouraged on other servers in the past. They've even occurred on The Test server (though initiated and emcee'd by persons other than myself). I had even offered to come help local tanker communities to get their own versions started. But the fact that it's remained such a staple of the Champion server experience doesn't diminish the accomplishment of 5 years of continuous participation and involvement. That's just plain amazing for any MMO.
In fact, this event and it's significance has had WIDE recognition from both the DEVs (attendance, launcher feature) as well as the forums-reading playerbase (2006 Player Run Event of the Year) and even many of the posters in this thread that disagree with the suggestion as posted still recognize the impressive longevity and resilience of the monthly event, which is pretty tanky of it if I do say so myself.
Some kind of "permanent" recognition of the event would be a fitting tribute to an event that has already become such a fixture of the game. If it doesn't happen, guess what? Tanks will still tank, and they will still tank with each other on the first Tuesday of every month.
As far as this whole RO argument... I should start off by admitting that I've never heard of Repeat Offenders, or at least don't remember hearing of them. Of course, I haven't been in the game for a couple years so maybe that's why, but regardless, any recognition of their efforts should be a completely separate issue. If they are as MEGA as they sound, I'm sure the supporters of this particular suggestion would be more than willing to support one that recognizes RO's awesomeness as well.
However this if-not-one-then-not-the-other argument is ludicrous. Merit for something like this should be judged in a vacuum, not comparatively.
Carry on with the debate, but keep in mind that the persons supporting this aren't doing so to hang their accomplishments over the heads of others, but simply and and humbly involve the entire game in celebrating an event that for many, embodies the very reasons we play these games in the first place.
Unadulterated community-wide involvement and support (and lots and lots of SMASH!)
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As for the MOTD - I'm assuming you mean on the updater. There's been quite a lot there. And events can be put there at the request of the organizers. That's not, to me, a major factor in its importance. Many events have been there.
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You assume incorrectly, which is why I listed the MotD separate from the updater. The updater is what you get before loading the game. The MotD is what you get after you login to a character.
Tanker Tuesday has been on both. It has also been featured in the City Scoop and voted Best Player Run Event, a Dev run contest spanning all servers. 
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The same can be said of many events as far as keeping interest. What has it done for interest in villainside directly?
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Tanker Tuesday has directly spawned Mastermind Monday, Brutal Bruiseday, Corrupticon, Domination Day, and Stalker Sunday. That is what it has done for the villain side directly.
On the hero side, Tanker Tuesday has spawned Controller Wednesday, Defender Dursday, Scrapper Saturday, and Blaster Dedsday.
Sorry, but I dont know of any epic AT days getting spawned. 
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And again, being a multi-server player, I never hear about it in game, or referred to by anybody in game, even when on champion.
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I cant force you to read the updater or MotD. After they put up a plaque, there will be a convenient place for you to go hear about it in game. 
I never heard of Repeat Offenders until this thread, and the Taxibots seem long gone. 
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Way to dismiss the arguments pointing out what those SGs have done and the cross AT, truly multiserver nature of them. Dismissing said impact is just as much a fallacy.
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Perhaps you misunderstood the term. Comparing Tanker Tuesday to [u]ANY[u] SG is akin to comparing apples and fish. Its not my fault that illogical comparisons should be dismissed.
Tanker Tuesday is about an [u]EVENT[u], not a group of players. The proposed plaque is for the EVENT, not for a group of players.
If you want to compare Repeat Offenders or the Taxibots to something, then compare them to Tank HQ, the tanker SG offered to tankers who need a home. Tank HQ is one of the SGs represented at Tanker Tuesday. However, this thread is not about Tank HQ, or any group of players.
When Repeat Offenders or the Taxibots get together with the entire community to sponsor a regular event which lasts for 5 years, then feel free to compare that event to Tanker Tuesday as an equal.
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I know full well RO ends up drawing in non-RO players and accepting them into their events. TT is not doing something here the others do not.
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To be clear, an SG which allows non-SG members to participate in its events is not uncommon. However, an SG is still about the PEOPLE, not an event. Even so, such SG events are not on a comparable scale with Tanker Tuesday. Even though a single SG started the first Tanker Tuesday, no single SG runs the event now. It is a community effort. So, yeah, Tanker Tuesday is indeed doing something here that others are not.
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TT has one location, on one server, that it's associated with. Costume contests, as you mention, are found under atlas... but on every server. And they have been there for as long as I've been in game, and before. Should we then have a costume contest plaque? It truly IS something that's been honestly community run, spontaneously, for as long.
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1.) There is already a plaque at that location.
2.) Costume contests, while common, are not a consistent, regular event. Also, they are typically run by a conglomeration of SGs. If a server (not a single SG or coalition) held a regularly scheduled costume contest for 5 years, then your comparison would be valid.
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See prior comments on "wanting to open that door - or floodgate."
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The door or floodgate is not yours to open or close. They have been open since badges were introduced. There are already several things in game making reference to player inspired content.
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And why have a plaque on every server - as they cannot, to the best of our knowledge - be server-specific, for an event that is not on every server?
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As has already been pointed out to you, Tanker Tuesday has crossed servers.
Plus, the fact that no other server communities has been able to consistently keep an event going is reason enough to put up a plaque in recognition Tanker Tuesday, commemorating the server than could. 
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Its longevity is admirable. Its impact on the game as a whole is questionable. And, see prior response.
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And answered, see prior response.
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I'd be pushing any OTHER group or event just as hard to prove they should get something similar if they proposed it.
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Fine, but you set no criteria for Tanker Tuesday to meet that it has not already met. At what point do you either concede that it qualifies or admit that you are just being oppositional? 
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I've proposed alternatives. If your comment about a plaque "getting attention and drawing others to the event" is true, you should be supporting the alternatives, which would by their nature draw even MORE attention in theory.
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I prefer the plaque idea, which seems more appropriate. Im not opposed to the addition of some of your other suggestions, though.
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(and lots and lots of SMASH!)
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Woah now...SMASH is for Brutes.
I'm not trying to argue or point any fingers. But saying an event you participate in deserves a permanent place in the game, when it is only well known on one server is self-aggrandizing. Sure people on other servers might know about it, but it is not a cross server thing.
I am all for TT getting recognition for lasting this long, but it does not deserve a plaque or any other permanent addition to the game world.
I find it funny when people who disagree are attacked for not agreeing with someone elses opinion. Why is the person disagreeing not intitled to thier opinion?
I think it would be nice for there to be recognition, but I think it would need to be more subtle than a plaque because the event only occurs on one server.
I think all you would need to do is get a designer to add a new feature to the meeting place when Issue 15 or 16 appears.
Perhaps an impressive tree, or a big bad rock. Or a lil statue of a tanker hero. Or hey...maybe a broken tank.
Something that would make things clear for the organisers and participants but not explicit to players on other servers.
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
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RO has done more then TT ever has.
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First of all, an event is NOT the same as an SG. If you feel the need to compare your SG to something, stick to another SG.
Second, I never heard of Repeat Offenders until this thread.
Did I miss them on the updater?
Did I miss them in the MotD?
Did I miss them in the Ciry Scoop?
Did I miss them in the Players Choice award winners?
If your SG sponsors events, then they should be proud of themselves. But, that holds no relevance to a plaque for Tanker Tuesday.
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I'm not trying to argue or point any fingers. But saying an event you participate in deserves a permanent place in the game, when it is only well known on one server is self-aggrandizing. Sure people on other servers might know about it, but it is not a cross server thing.
I am all for TT getting recognition for lasting this long, but it does not deserve a plaque or any other permanent addition to the game world.
I find it funny when people who disagree are attacked for not agreeing with someone elses opinion. Why is the person disagreeing not intitled to thier opinion?
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I don't understand the attacks either.
I'm all for plaques . . . for every event and every group that makes it to 5 years, RO included.
If the devs feel it should be done sure.
However the plaque should be on EVERY server. If the event is truly cross server, then the plaque should be.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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RO has done more then TT ever has.
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First of all, an event is NOT the same as an SG. If you feel the need to compare your SG to something, stick to another SG.
Second, I never heard of Repeat Offenders until this thread.
Did I miss them on the updater?
Did I mess them in the MotD?
Did I miss them in the Ciry Scoop?
Did I miss them in the Players Choice award winners?
If your SG sponsors events, then they should be proud of themselves. But, that holds no relevance to a plaque for Tanker Tuesday.
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to be honest with you I've never heard of Tanker Tuesday till this thread.
I have however heard of RO. From Castle's post a while ago.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I find it funny when people who disagree are attacked for not agreeing with someone elses opinion. Why is the person disagreeing not intitled to thier opinion?
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That's not funny, it's mean! If you want to disagree, doing anything other that simply stating that fact, opens up your argument for review. I've seen a lot of attacks on arguments, but not on persons. If you notice otherwise, you should report it. It's your heroic responsibility!
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I find it funny when people who disagree are attacked for not agreeing with someone elses opinion. Why is the person disagreeing not intitled to thier opinion?
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I agree with that. On both sides. However, I see the opponents post as more attack oriented than the defensive posts of the proponents.
If you disagree with the idea, fine. Noted. I support your right to disagree.
But, some have stuck around to attack the idea. Repeatedly. That's more than just stating one's opinion.
Personally, I'm just try to help explain the reasoning and rubuttals.
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to be honest with you I've never heard of Tanker Tuesday till this thread.
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Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!
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Would any of that effect your opinion?
[/ QUOTE ]No, not really.
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Samuel_Tow
An article in the City Scoop, special forum titles for the organisers, a spot in the game news or some such would be a lot more appropriate
[/ QUOTE ]Sam has it right. Any of those things are far better than a plaque in the game world.
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This, exactly. Should TT be recognized? Absolutely. But not this way.
We'll always have Paragon.
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I find it funny when people who disagree are attacked for not agreeing with someone elses opinion. Why is the person disagreeing not intitled to thier opinion?
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I agree with that. On both sides. However, I see the opponents post as more attack oriented than the defensive posts of the proponents.
If you disagree with the idea, fine. Noted. I support your right to disagree.
But, some have stuck around to attack the idea. Repeatedly. That's more than just stating one's opinion.
Personally, I'm just try to help explain the reasoning and rubuttals.
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As I'm sticking around more than most on this, I'll say this as plainly as possible.
If you're reading any of what I'm saying as an attack, you're reading it wrong.
I am not saying "Why you, when X group doesn't have one?" In fact, if you look at *at least* one other response, I've even said that if the positions were reversed and (say) RO was doing the same thing, I'd be pushing back against them JUST as hard to justify it.
Tanker Tuesday seems bigger to those who are involved, because they're inside it. A mention or two *years* ago just puts them in with... well, every other event, And just about anybody, giving Ex the details, can get an event mentioned. That's not what I'd call a worthy yardstick - I could get one of my SGs together and hold a costume contest for our - think it's third coming up for the one I'm thinking of - anniversary and have that put in the updater. Or set up something for when I finally get the last few ATs up to 50 and say I'm throwing together a celebration for that. Should I then, next February, point at that and say that's why I deserve a plaque?
Several of you say you haven't heard of RO, or heard from the Taxibots. Well, that's what many of US are saying about Tanker Tuesdays - and the (properly done) search results dont' show any discussion about it anywhere but Champion.
Again, I agree it's a great milestone, and congratulate the organizers for keeping it running. But to me, from where I sit, it looks *precisely* like a single server event - just like Infinity's Taxibot monthly tours, which are still going. And while I support all the "package" I'd listed, I do feel we need to stop short of the "in game memorialization" of a plaque.
I haven't heard an argument that convinces me that last step of permanence is warranted. *shrug* That's all there is to it, IMO.
Edit: As odd as it is, having said that, I half agree with Dollymistress up there:
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Perhaps an impressive tree, or a big bad rock. Or a lil statue of a tanker hero. Or hey...maybe a broken tank.
Something that would make things clear for the organisers and participants but not explicit to players on other servers.
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Don't ask me to explain why. *shrug* Possibly because it's more general use - put there because of TT, but usable to everyone without being specific to one server.
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RO has done more then TT ever has.
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First of all, an event is NOT the same as an SG. If you feel the need to compare your SG to something, stick to another SG.
[/ QUOTE ]Let's clear the air a bit. While there is an SG called "Repeat Offenders", the "Repeat Offenders Network" is not an SG. RO is the largest network of SGs in the game, spanning multiple coalitions and servers
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Still a group of players, and NOT an event.
But, thank you for the clarification.
Do they have anyone on Champion?
What's more is repeat offenders actually spawn different AT groupings on many different servers.
I've never participated in a RO run nor have I ever heard of TT before this thread.
I have a question for the TT advocates
I only play on Virtue and I never play tankers as I don't care for the play style what significance does TT have to me?
Now I agree that as an event that's been run for this long, with this consistency some recognition is warranted, however I don't think an in game plaque is the way to do it.
I still dont see the difference between an event of group of players getting togther once a month and a once per month Super Group.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Still a group of players, and NOT an event.
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An event consists of a group of players, jah?
And if you want to get into the Event vs. SG thing then I would argue a SG is far more time intensive and requires much more managing to survive after 4+ years then an one-a-month event.
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Carry on with the debate, but keep in mind that the persons supporting this aren't doing so to hang their accomplishments over the heads of others, but simply and and humbly involve the entire game in celebrating an event that for many, embodies the very reasons we play these games in the first place.
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
(And yes, that hurt to type )
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
I'd also point out that the SG versus Event argument starts falling apart when you go out of your way to urge folks already biased towards your cause to come into the thread to add their signatures to your petition. The event itself certainly didn't suggest this.
It'd be the same thing if I made a post asking for some kind of recognition for the Teen Hero Gathering, then had a few of my fellow teen heroers come "lend their support". Sure, the two of them are coincidentally my bestest friends, sure the three of us are coincidentally in the same SG, sure we see each other pretty much every day, but it's not about us it's about the event.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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Still a group of players, and NOT an event.
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An event is a group of players. A SG - in fact, a network of SGs - is, as well.
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Do they have anyone on Champion?
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Primarily they're Freedom, Justice, and Virtue.
Apostles of RO - FJV - All ATs
Black Ice - J - Ice and Dark powersets
Brain Damage - J - Psionic based powersets
Bubbleicious - F -If you've got a bubble in your pri/sec, you're in.
Damn Dirty Apes - Theme SG (costume)
Death from Above - F - Stalkers, Widows, Banes
Don't Whiz on the Electric Fence - F - Electric blaster/defender
Faithful Fans of Fallout - F - Rad
Fortissimo - V - Sonics
Green Machine - F - Empaths
Heretics of RO - FJV - Villainside
Justice Force - F - All ATs (h)
Legends of RO - F - 45+ RO members (h_
Lone Stars - V - Soloists (H)
... that's maybe half to 2/3 of the list. They have groups for Masterminds, Dark-style powers villainside, Tanks (Think Tank and Tanks for Nothing) and more.
Just so you get an idea of the organization, and possibly what it takes to keep it running and held together. http://www.repeat-offenders.net if you want to look through.
Honestly, I think Tanker Tuesday and Repeat Offenders both deserve a plaque, as well as any organization or network that started in year one, and kept a constant presense the entire time. 60 months of dedication, not only to a game, but to a specific segment of the game is worth something. Repeat Offenders just needs to pick a place for their plaque.
I'm having a hard time thinking of any other event or support network that have been as instantly recognizable as these two, though admittedly I am pre-coffee at the moment. And as for Costume Contests under Atlas, they got more than a plaque in Issue 11 when Twilight's Son made them a part of canon in his TF.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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Although, a plaque with something like "Tanker Tuesday, Home of the Ringslide" would really work.
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Dang, between the Ringslide and OMGTEKR!!!!, I can't even leave for a couple hours or years and catch a break from you people!!! Sheesh....
When I got mad at you I would call you Smarmydon in my head. :P
Seriously though, I am awestruck by the amount of awesome still clobbering around Paragon City. So great to see these old names and I can't wait to see you all tonight.
Pep, that is one of the greatest drawings ever made, btw. You Rule.
And Tank_Washington, thanks for the kind words! C'mon over to champ for a night, it wont kill ya to watch me die repeatedly and ridiculously.
That goes for all of you, agreers and disagreers alike! Live and love a little hot TT action, and then debate the plaque. It's the right thing to do.