[ QUOTE ]
I wonder what a fixed Fleeting is like...
[/ QUOTE ]
Unable to have children?
We'll always have Paragon.
You know what's REALLY pathetic?
Going in and starting another thread, against forum policies, to try to drive traffic here, bypassing all the arguments both for and against.
Apparently Tank_Washington doesn't think the idea stands on its own and is trying to get a mob here. Sounds like a vote against to me... or a vote for at least one thread lock.
[ QUOTE ]
or a vote for at least one thread lock.
[/ QUOTE ]
Memphis_Bill you are asking for this thread to be locked?
Si /50 Blaster Fire Pure..
I'm willing to bet he's asking for Tank_Washington's cross post to be hopefully locked.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am also in favor of some sort of metric or standard to be in place that sets a guideline for ideas like this.
[/ QUOTE ]
This, I'm fully in support of. (I'm very much "on the side of caution," if you've paid attention to my comments.)
[/ QUOTE ]
You know this thread speaks to a bigger topic that all 14 vocally opposed have overlooked by a mile.
Saying you'd like to see some standard or metric on this idea while spending ALL your time trying to shoot down the vehicle that might bring that about, is a contradiction.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's right. Make sure to dismiss all arguments against it, as well as those stated reasons FOR the argument against it. I'm no longer surprised.
[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't it be amazing to have THIS in OUR game? That's a feature in a game that's not even a year old.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, not really. Another topic brought up often.
[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think the devs would consider the request in the OP without first considering a system to reward laudable milestones by other players, and events? Really?
[/ QUOTE ]
Given they know about precendents, and the way they've helped celebrate other PLAYER EVENTS, why do you dismiss them as being not enough for this? Precedent exists for the other suggestions (mostly.) But you refuse to even consider them - hypocritically, you accuse those of us who HAVE pointed this out of not considering these things.
[ QUOTE ]
[u]You say you want a standard and contemplation by the devs, but the vehicle to start the process is right in front of your eyes.[u]
[/ QUOTE ]
Precedents have been set already. You want to leapfrog them to something JUST for your event.
[ QUOTE ]
You've pointed to other entities that are worthy, yet clearly those associated with them are no where near as passionate about their cause as those who've attended TT through the years.
More likely, many of the leaders of the afore mentioned don't have active accounts anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Assumptions, generally false, also don't help your arguments.
[ QUOTE ]
This is the vehicle to force that "metric" by the devs if there ever was one, by the broad show of support,
[/ QUOTE ]
There is no "Broad show of support." TT is not that big of an event. Long running, yes, but not cross server, not as huge as you want to make it out to be.
[ QUOTE ]
Airing on the side of cation and inside the box clan thinking rarely gets anything interesting done, just as it wouldn't if some of you had your way with PP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Since you're not bothering to listen to arguments - the word is "Erring." Airing would be bringing something into public - "Airing dirty laundry."
And since you're just being dismissive, despite the reasoning given for opposition, as well as trying to rig things by driving more traffic here (with a false - and honestly, more damaging example, that's also been shot down for good reasons before) - you're no longer worth addressing.
I'm stepping out of this thread.
My reasoning has been given, with full, thought out arguments to back it up that many like Tank_Washington here are dismissing because it doesn't match EXACTLY what THEY want. Alternatives that are more appropriate are being ignored, even though they could well bring MORE attention to the event than the plaque, because it doesn't match EXACTLY what THEY want.
Others viewpoints are being dismissed because, when it comes to the opposing viewpoints, we're getting the occasional "Memphis_Bill is your leader" - which I am not, and have never claimed to be, nor have I been labeled such by the others opposed to this - which is more reason for me to step out of this thread, so that their viewpoints can unequivocally be seen as their own and not met with even more dismissal.
And from what I saw of the folks coming in a bit late, once the main (and not that large, honestly, by the look of the screenshots - not miniscule, but not some massive organization) T_T groups left, there's not much "community" there if the leaders aren't around. I saw groups (duos, generally) of tanks that could well have joined up, SKd lowbies, etc. just standing around, then logging out... that's not a "community building" effort to me, it's not an "event for the sake of the event," it's "Oh, if I'm not with the main group, I'm leaving." I saw multiple tanks (at least one of which I recognized by name) come in, stand (or float) around, and log out.
Probably seven tanks over fourty five minutes. There would, from what I recall, have been exemplar issues or SK issues for *one* if this group had actually decided to band together in what seems to be presented as the spirit of the event. But they did not.
It certainly didn't impress me as to their "community building." I even saw someone who came in late broadcast about it, asking if there was a team - whereupon another member said, "They all left," instead of startting a team.
The behaviour there, as well as in this thread, and the low tactic of trying to drive traffic, has completely destroyed any hope this group may have had of winning me over to supporting this - because that is NOT what a worthwhile community group does.
And as someone who, yes, loves to play my tanks and has - without going to a Tanker Tuesday - been called a very good tank - that's disappointing to me.
Congrats in your five years. I am opposed to a plaque, and less inclined thanks to the behaviour of some such as Tank_Washington to agree with much of anything past having devs show up and hand out titles like every other event at this point.
To the idea. No. Why?
Because City of Heroes is advertised and has as the heart and soul of the game the idea that Paragon City is.... "where YOU can be, a Hero!" This suggests a classless society, where anyone, ANYONE can come out of nowhere and do heroic things, no matter who you are.
As soon as you start making statues or plaques or whatever for this hero or that hero, you immediately create a class system, where some are "more heroic" or "more important" than others.
Here I am, logging into the game where "*I* am a Hero!" and what do I see in front of me? A statue or a plaque to another player or group of players. Kinda makes me feel like a jerkwad in tights.... especially cause I'm new and they have years ahead of me in "cred".
No, this game works just fine as it is right now, where the ONLY "extra special" heroes are NPCs. Don't place some players above others, ever, or else you'll find a whole lot of people going away.
This works in a fantasy or sci-fi MMO because you're just one of a dozen or more elves or mercaneries that look almost identical apart from the armor you're wearing, but in THIS game, it's all about making the player, YOU, feel special and unique and individual. That's why we have so many options to customize our characters, both in power and in look... to make US feel special and unique.
As soon as another player is raised above the rest, you're no longer a special and unique hero, you're just another grunt running around in tights.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm willing to bet he's asking for Tank_Washington's cross post to be hopefully locked.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.
Someone else already reported it, and I PM'd Moderator 08. It's shameful behaviour to have undertaken, and IMHO deceptive both to have done and to have pointed to the statues.
We seem to have several people repeating themselves, so I have some suggestions:
If you think that a plaque is a good idea, please voice your opinion (if you havent). Also, look at some of the other alternate suggestions and voice your thoughts on those ideas. Perhaps a fitting alternative isnt so bad. 
If you think that Tanker Tuesday has not met some nebulous set of criteria for a plaque, please list the criteria you would consider appropriate. I encourage you to be as specific as possible. This will help a productive dialog, which we can all enjoy. 
If you think that only a plaque on the Champion server is appropriate, please feel free to voice opinion (if you havent). Im pretty sure that such things are prohibitive because of the coding though. Many people have noted that this is an acceptable alternative, but if the Devs cant do it, then perhaps it would be wise to consider something else. 
If you think that a plaque specifically is inappropriate, please feel free to suggest alternatives, if you think of any. Alternately, provide some productive feedback on some of the alternatives already suggested. I dont doubt that the proponents are willing to consider a thoughtful response. 
If you are opposed to the idea based on some type of comparison (valid or otherwise), please keep in mind that this is not a contest. The proponents of the idea dont seem to be attempting to invalidate anyone elses events, and your similar courtesy would be appreciated. Having Tanker Tuesday receive a plaque (or alternate) will have no impact on anything else receiving a plaque. If you think that something else is just as worthy, please start a separate thread suggesting that it receive a plaque, and it can stand on its own merits, just like Tanker Tuesday.
If you are opposed to ANY type of player recognition in game, please voice your opinion (if you havent) and be done. It is unlikely that you will change your mind or the supporters of the idea. Thank you for taking the time to add your thoughts for the consideration of the Devs, who will ultimately decide.
If you have cemented yourself in your opinion, on either side, then firing back at others isnt productive. Thank you for taking the time to add your thoughts for the consideration of the Devs, who will ultimately decide. 
If you are limiting your responses to flaming and accusations, then nothing anyone says (except a maybe moderator) will deter you. Everyone else is encouraged to just hit the report button on the bottom of your post and move on. 
In the spirit of dialog and considering alternatives, I posted this before, but it seems to have gotten wiped due to being tacked on the end of a deleted post. (Dang you Quick Reply!)
For those people opposed to a plaque because of the current nature of whats on a plaque, then how about a location badge?
It could be placed on top of the wall instead of on the face of the wall. That way, it wont disrupt your 4th wall any more than any other badge, and it maintains a sense of location.
Also, badges DO have a history of coming from player ideas. 
An exploration badge has basically the same issues as a plaque.
It will be on every server, when it is relevant to a small subsection of one.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Well, as noted above, coding something for a single server seems to be prohibitive. Unless you can suggest an alternative or provide acceptable criteria, just say that you're against any permanent fixture and be done.
I'm sorry if you take that as a dismissive response, but dragging the "single server" argument out just isn't productive.
On a seperate note, what about putting something up on the billboards? It's free to COH, as long as they aren't already posting something from a paid sponsor.
Of course, that takes away from the location idea. Personally, I'd prefer a connection to the location, but at least I'm trying to be productive.
[ QUOTE ]
We seem to have several people repeating themselves, so I have some suggestions:
If you think that a plaque is a good idea, please voice your opinion (if you havent). Also, look at some of the other alternate suggestions and voice your thoughts on those ideas. Perhaps a fitting alternative isnt so bad.
If you think that Tanker Tuesday has not met some nebulous set of criteria for a plaque, please list the criteria you would consider appropriate. I encourage you to be as specific as possible. This will help a productive dialog, which we can all enjoy.
If you think that only a plaque on the Champion server is appropriate, please feel free to voice opinion (if you havent). Im pretty sure that such things are prohibitive because of the coding though. Many people have noted that this is an acceptable alternative, but if the Devs cant do it, then perhaps it would be wise to consider something else.
If you think that a plaque specifically is inappropriate, please feel free to suggest alternatives, if you think of any. Alternately, provide some productive feedback on some of the alternatives already suggested. I dont doubt that the proponents are willing to consider a thoughtful response.
If you are opposed to the idea based on some type of comparison (valid or otherwise), please keep in mind that this is not a contest. The proponents of the idea dont seem to be attempting to invalidate anyone elses events, and your similar courtesy would be appreciated. Having Tanker Tuesday receive a plaque (or alternate) will have no impact on anything else receiving a plaque. If you think that something else is just as worthy, please start a separate thread suggesting that it receive a plaque, and it can stand on its own merits, just like Tanker Tuesday.
If you are opposed to ANY type of player recognition in game, please voice your opinion (if you havent) and be done. It is unlikely that you will change your mind or the supporters of the idea. Thank you for taking the time to add your thoughts for the consideration of the Devs, who will ultimately decide.
If you have cemented yourself in your opinion, on either side, then firing back at others isnt productive. Thank you for taking the time to add your thoughts for the consideration of the Devs, who will ultimately decide.
If you are limiting your responses to flaming and accusations, then nothing anyone says (except a maybe moderator) will deter you. Everyone else is encouraged to just hit the report button on the bottom of your post and move on.
In the spirit of dialog and considering alternatives, I posted this before, but it seems to have gotten wiped due to being tacked on the end of a deleted post. (Dang you Quick Reply!)
For those people opposed to a plaque because of the current nature of whats on a plaque, then how about a location badge?
It could be placed on top of the wall instead of on the face of the wall. That way, it wont disrupt your 4th wall any more than any other badge, and it maintains a sense of location.
Also, badges DO have a history of coming from player ideas.
[/ QUOTE ]
Everything you mentioned there has already been covered.
Repeatedly.
And to great extent.
In fact the only people to repeat themselves are the ones saying "we deserve a plaque!"
It's nothing against tanker tuesday. TT should have recognition. It should have a big party with City Scoop announcement, dev visiting, and added to the tool tip rotation.
But, its seems obvious that whenever someone tries to spread out to other servers to make TT more game wide, the majority say "O gee, I dunno" "I don't want to make a new lowbie tank on another server" and my persoanl favorite "If TT leaves champion on the first tuesday of the month it's streak will be broken and not special anymore".
[ QUOTE ]
Alternatives that are more appropriate are being ignored, even though they could well bring MORE attention to the event than the plaque, because it doesn't match EXACTLY what THEY want.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or people just prefer the original idea to the alternatives suggested in this thread.
Overall this has been a bizarre debate. Some like the idea, some are against it because they feel TT doesn't deserve the attention, others are against because they have another idea that would get it more attention.
The upside is that this thread has stayed on the first page of the Suggestions forum for a couple days now, so it might have caught the eye of one of the development team. Ultimately, it's up to them.
[ QUOTE ]
On a seperate note, what about putting something up on the billboards? It's free to COH, as long as they aren't already posting something from a paid sponsor.
Of course, that takes away from the location idea. Personally, I'd prefer a connection to the location, but at least I'm trying to be productive.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having suggested this earlier, I'll repeat my support for it.
I will grant you that it doesn't tie to the location, but to balance that, it allows more customization (text AND graphics), better fulfills the goal of spreading awareness of the event, allows for widespread recognition of the event throughout the gameworld, and sets a useful precedent that can be easily adjusted to fit future events or accomplishments needing recognition.
As a bonus, folks utterly opposed to any sort of alteration to the look of the game can simply turn off in-game ads, and never have to see it.
This seems to me the most adaptable compromise available, and I endorse it.
The Beatnik,
who'll also end further comments at this point, because repeating myself would just bore you folks to tears. Besides, at my age one has to avoid anything that even vaguely resembles a "senior moment".
[ QUOTE ]
Everything you mentioned there has already been covered.
Repeatedly.
And to great extent.
In fact the only people to repeat themselves are the ones saying "we deserve a plaque!"
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the point of Panthershade's post was to try to stop the back, and forth of the SAME Pro, and Con posters who will never agree.
I'm not gonna say their aren't any posters on the Pro side that have repeated themselves, but answer me this: How many posts have Memphis_ Bill, and you yourself made in this thread repeating basically the same thing: TT should not get a plaque?
Opinions have been duly noted, please allow others to weigh in on the same topic without turning this thread into 100 pages of the same posters saying the same things.
[ QUOTE ]
But, its seems obvious that whenever someone tries to spread out to other servers to make TT more game wide, the majority say "O gee, I dunno" "I don't want to make a new lowbie tank on another server" and my persoanl favorite "If TT leaves champion on the first tuesday of the month it's streak will be broken and not special anymore".
[/ QUOTE ]
Who said that last quote? I must have missed it.
[ QUOTE ]
And from what I saw of the folks coming in a bit late, once the main (and not that large, honestly, by the look of the screenshots - not miniscule, but not some massive organization) T_T groups left, there's not much "community" there if the leaders aren't around. I saw groups (duos, generally) of tanks that could well have joined up, SKd lowbies, etc. just standing around, then logging out... that's not a "community building" effort to me, it's not an "event for the sake of the event," it's "Oh, if I'm not with the main group, I'm leaving." I saw multiple tanks (at least one of which I recognized by name) come in, stand (or float) around, and log out.
Probably seven tanks over fourty five minutes. There would, from what I recall, have been exemplar issues or SK issues for *one* if this group had actually decided to band together in what seems to be presented as the spirit of the event. But they did not.
It certainly didn't impress me as to their "community building." I even saw someone who came in late broadcast about it, asking if there was a team - whereupon another member said, "They all left," instead of startting a team.
[/ QUOTE ]
At this point I agree--you really are better off just ending your posts in this thread. I don't think you really meant to trash a player-organized community event based on having a jaded view of it to begin with, then attending just one night for the first time, and judging the actions of some of the people that logged in after it had already started and all of the groups were on the move. Instead it sounds like you're just aggravated at certain people posting here. That's giving you benefit of the doubt though.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everything you mentioned there has already been covered.
Repeatedly.
And to great extent.
In fact the only people to repeat themselves are the ones saying "we deserve a plaque!"
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the point of Panthershade's post was to try to stop the back, and forth of the SAME Pro, and Con posters who will never agree.
I'm not gonna say their aren't any posters on the Pro side that have repeated themselves, but answer me this: How many posts have Memphis_ Bill, and you yourself made in this thread repeating basically the same thing: TT should not get a plaque?
Opinions have been duly noted, please allow others to weigh in on the same topic without turning this thread into 100 pages of the same posters saying the same things.
[ QUOTE ]
But, its seems obvious that whenever someone tries to spread out to other servers to make TT more game wide, the majority say "O gee, I dunno" "I don't want to make a new lowbie tank on another server" and my persoanl favorite "If TT leaves champion on the first tuesday of the month it's streak will be broken and not special anymore".
[/ QUOTE ]
Who said that last quote? I must have missed it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats basically what kiloton said. He just used more words.
[ QUOTE ]
And from what I saw of the folks coming in a bit late, once the main (and not that large, honestly, by the look of the screenshots - not miniscule, but not some massive organization) T_T groups left, there's not much "community" there if the leaders aren't around. I saw groups (duos, generally) of tanks that could well have joined up, SKd lowbies, etc. just standing around, then logging out... that's not a "community building" effort to me, it's not an "event for the sake of the event," it's "Oh, if I'm not with the main group, I'm leaving." I saw multiple tanks (at least one of which I recognized by name) come in, stand (or float) around, and log out.
Probably seven tanks over fourty five minutes. There would, from what I recall, have been exemplar issues or SK issues for *one* if this group had actually decided to band together in what seems to be presented as the spirit of the event. But they did not.
It certainly didn't impress me as to their "community building." I even saw someone who came in late broadcast about it, asking if there was a team - whereupon another member said, "They all left," instead of startting a team.
The behaviour there, as well as in this thread, and the low tactic of trying to drive traffic, has completely destroyed any hope this group may have had of winning me over to supporting this - because that is NOT what a worthwhile community group does.
And as someone who, yes, loves to play my tanks and has - without going to a Tanker Tuesday - been called a very good tank - that's disappointing to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Up to this point you were actually starting to win me over. Your reasoning of "not breaking the fourth wall" was a valid reason. I was even beginning to understand your objection due the fact that it effect Champion and has not effected other servers.
So, I'll no longer debate or argue the merits of having the plaque.
Instead I wish to comment on the completely incorrect statement quoted above.
Tanker Tuesday is a prime example of "community", without having to "hand of the wheel" to a new event co-ordinator when one person is unable to fill those shoes, this event has continued with SOME member of the community stepping up to the plate. "Community" is the reason for its continued success.
Tanker Tuesday team are almost 50% mentor and 50% sidekicks (with the exception of teams put together to do taskforces and etc). This allows first time Tanks to team with more experienced tanks. I know this because one of my duties is to help create teams. I put them together and hand over leadership. This team mix contributes towards "community building".
I admit, those who show up to the event LATE have a more difficult time finding a team. By this time the mob of Tanks have already been waiting around and want to get going. Which is fair. We TRY to please everyone, but it is impossible. To compensate for this, we created the "TankHQ" global channel so that if someone shows up late then can still find a team.
Lastly, the tanker who floated around and then logged off was most likely me. But I have a great Excuse. Although I really wanted to team. Being a mommy comes first.
Quite frankly, I find the quoted comment consistent with the type of person who attends events but has never lead one. They don't step up to lead hami raids, they are afraid of the star on a team, they would rather sit back a criticize instead of being a leader.
Ah work and MA has kept me away, this thing has grown.
Well, I'm not interested in arguing, I get enough of that at work.
I will sort through the newer posts since the last update and see if there are any new ideas offered or suggestions, and I'll compile all of them and throw them at Pos.
Meantime, go play the MA and have fun, or give your wife a kiss, life's to short to argue.
Not married, so I will also kiss Ace's wife.
[ QUOTE ]
Lisar, we're still waiting for proof of your award winning chest.
[/ QUOTE ] Sorry...only one of the requesters so far I felt comfortable with sharing.
[ QUOTE ]
Thats basically what kiloton said. He just used more words.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, you are speaking of posts from the Tanker Tuesday Tour thread I started in the Tanker forums. (I read this one first when I cam home from work, and thought you may have grossly misconstrued one of my posts from this thread. my bad. sorry.)
I don't think Kilo meant TT wouldn't be special(or whatever it is) anymore, just that the streak would be over.
I can understand feeling this way. My family has many little traditions that we do on holidays that would be missed if we didn't do them.
The practical side of wanting to keep TT on champion is to satisfy the players that already made the effort to make a new Tank on Champion, especially ones from other servers, and people without the time to keep making new characters. Those people may even be NON-ALTAHOLICS. I've never met one, but I've heard they exist.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thats basically what kiloton said. He just used more words.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, you are speaking of posts from the Tanker Tuesday Tour thread I started in the Tanker forums. (I read this one first when I cam home from work, and thought you may have grossly misconstrued one of my posts from this thread. my bad. sorry.)
I don't think Kilo meant TT wouldn't be special(or whatever it is) anymore, just that the streak would be over.
I can understand feeling this way. My family has many little traditions that we do on holidays that would be missed if we didn't do them.
The practical side of wanting to keep TT on champion is to satisfy the players that already made the effort to make a new Tank on Champion, especially ones from other servers, and people without the time to keep making new characters. Those people may even be NON-ALTAHOLICS. I've never met one, but I've heard they exist.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can see the practicle side. But, if you really want this event to be the gamewide thing you guys claim it is, you are going to HAVE to expand it onto other servers.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lisar, we're still waiting for proof of your award winning chest.
[/ QUOTE ] Sorry...only one of the requesters so far I felt comfortable with sharing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ace's wife? Dang, she gets all the luck. 
Current favs: Champ: Frau Schmeterling-22 MM 50s: NOTW-Blaster, Cat-Girl Commando-corr, Queen of the Dawn-PB, NOTW-Def, Peterbilt-Brute, IcedTNA-Tank, Archilies-scrap, Mann Eater-stalk, Redemptive Soul-toller, Mt Fuji of A-Team-Tank, Hot Stuff Vale-Dom
My MiniCity
After thumbing through and coming to this suggestion:
[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't it be amazing to have THIS in OUR game?
[/ QUOTE ]
It got me thinking, what if using the MA system there were Hall of Fames for every server, and maybe one miscellaneous Hall that would include worthy forumites for various hard to achieve categories, like Bill and his guides, and Zombie Man, Arcana and so on.
It could include worthy events, groups, PvP accomplishments, and the instance could be a large hall, or look something like this filled with plaques and statues.
We already have a system for voting on players within categories, you could use the same MA type ratings standards, and depending on the accomplishment and it's difficulty, the awarded recipient gets to customize his statue in the costume creator, or use a unique plaque.
I don't think it could be said players of that caliber aren't interested in that type of reward, or the forums wouldn't be filled with badge accomplishment advertisements in sigs and avatars. =]
Any new player could enter on whichever server and learn about some of the amazing milestones achieved by characters before them, like a virtual history tour for their server.
Maybe give an added incentive for them to stay around, to add themselves to the servers lore in time.
Plenty of players stay around just to accumulate Badges, so a Hall of Fame for every server would add to a sort of end game, for a variety of categories.
No one server alone gets recognition in some way, while players could look forward to someday making it in. And the rating, instance, and custom statue/plaque design interface already exists.
I wonder what a fixed Fleeting is like...