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I have always known about TT. Been to a few, but dont believe it should get a plaque.So, here is another against it.But really, it doesnt make a difference to me if one is put in game. It doesnt affect my playing none.
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I also do not believe the TT event deserves a plaque. However, I am personally against it, and feel that a plaque is a form of CoH Canon, and the TT event, while an impressive player organized event, is not CoH Canon.
I would support other, non-canon forms of official recognition, such as the ones which have already occurred for the TT event.
Well posted, Bill. An excellent point of view on this.
Of the discussions thusfar, I will admit I cannot prove all my discussion with my 25 SGs and VGs that I am part of/lead, and the ensuing discussions as related to Tanker Tuesday. I will admit that my reasoning for not recording and logging chats about an event such as this obviously didn't warrant enough merit against the entertainment/social factor that I play this game for. Shame on me. I obviously now need to record my chats to explain myself. I stand chastised.
All of your points have merit, Bill.
I too, consider a SG of 5 years of life to truly be a momentous accomplishment, yet the SG unto itself, if it still exists, is a legacy unto itself, so long as the SG and/or base stand. You have something that CAN be seen as a true current representation: your SG name, your base, websites about your VG, posts of all the accomplishments you've done, et al. The SG itself is a marker of its accomplishments; Tanker Tuesday doesn't have that other than what is posted in Scoop articles, websites and forum posts. There is no active representation for it.
I grant you, Tanker Tuesday is cornerstoned in Champion, yet players came to Champion server to be part of it, engendering community.
If it seemed that I implied 'everyone', then my meaning wasn't taken to the correct effect. Players on other servers, in discussions about Tanker Tuesday with me, were excited about the idea of attending; they would make a new toon on Champion just to be part of it. For the few I obviously know across the servers, they seem to keep coming back to TT when they can, pending RL.
What the point is, in regards to this simple plaque relating to Tanker Tuesday, is that it's meant to say that a good, solid, dynamic event that could have died several times over - didn't.
It persevered.
It remained consistent.
It battled through 5 years of not having to be maintained, yet was.
It operated as strong as a "tank"; it took hits, and still kept going, shooting a salvo every first Tuesday of each month for all to rally to.
I find that unto itself heroic and noteworthy, and as such agree to something as a marker.
I don't diminish other events, SGs/VGs for their duration or dynamics; it is part of our player-made canon, if you will; just as Tanker Tuesday is for some who wish to grant it a marker or representation.
As such, I understand your points, Bill. I'm afraid you and I (and some others) are at an impasse. I appreciate your positive discussion about this Bill; you'd be a good statesman.
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player-made canon
[/ QUOTE ]Now that's an oxymoron if I've ever seen one.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
For anyone out there viewing this thread who may be unfamiliar with this most fantastic and fun event, here are pics from this evening's gathering - this is prior to everyone splitting into groups and running in tight packs
Click Me 1
Click Me 2
Click Me 3
Click Me 4
Special appearance by: The Ring! (Click Me 2)
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Plaques, statues, and 'souvenirs' have been made in-game by the developers based on a storyline, CoH canon, or simply just 'placing' the item there for aesthetics.
[/ QUOTE ] TT is neither canon on all servers nor part of the story line, that is why adding mention of it in the game world for all servers is not being supported by everyone.
Also to whoever said Bill was some sort of leader of the people not supporting it, stop saying stupid things. That also goes for whoever said "the masses want this".
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player-made canon
[/ QUOTE ]Now that's an oxymoron if I've ever seen one.
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Some player-influence on the game world is good for the game. And I think we'll see more with the Mission Architect.
I was going to make another suggestion for an appropriate recognition of this event bu I noted most of mine never made it to the summary lists.
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I was going to make another suggestion for an appropriate recognition of this event bu I noted most of mine never made it to the summary lists.
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Re-check the lists.
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For anyone out there viewing this thread who may be unfamiliar with this most fantastic and fun event, here are pics from this evening's gathering - this is prior to everyone splitting into groups and running in tight packs
Click Me 1
Click Me 2
Click Me 3
Click Me 4
Special appearance by: The Ring! (Click Me 2)
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Aw man there was a TT tonight, I was looking at the wrong T when I was looking at the calender on my computer earlier and mistook Thursday for Tuesday.
/signed again
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Click Me 2
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You can almost see up my skirt! I'm so embarrassed!
Don't feel too bad, Lisar. Ace didn't even realize that my post of "Don't see it" meant I do not see the need to add this plaque in game.
For the record, my objection has little to do with whatever value I might attach to Tanker Tuesday. The city's plaques commemorate historic events from the official in-game lore. They are a way of communicating the game lore to its players, in game, and I think they're fabulous. A plaque commemorating a player-run event essentially elevates that event to the status of official game lore. I don't see the value in creating a mechanic to allow this to happen, nor do I think it should happen "just because." I don't want to see a plaque raised in recognition of a given server's first successful hami raid or the first successful "Master of the Statesman Task Force", nor any other instance of what essentially amounts to people playing the game. I think the appropriate form of recognition for such player run events comes from the other players, and not the designers and creators of the game.
Some players have cited prior instances of such recognition, including the skulls badge. In my opinion these should not have happened in the first place and should not be repeated. If a plaque commemorating Tanker Tuesdays did get raised, though, I would view this as no more ruinous to the game than the previously mentioned badge. Mistakes get made all the time, even by me. Letting them ruin my enjoyment of a perfectly good game would be foolish.
If the newspaper guys have broken the 4th wall (I swear they have I don't know when though) before I don't see a reason they can't start announcing the event. Also it should be on a loading tip.
Plaques are fun and mostly harmless. Tanker Tuesday is always a blast. I say add it. If you limit plaques to events that have run continuously for 5 years, there won't be too many additional plaques.
Why do there have to be additional plaques?
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Click Me 2
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You can almost see up my skirt! I'm so embarrassed!
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I was standing right under you. I wasn't embarrassed.
MA Author: Look for my eight arcs under @Witty Librarian!
Hero Cleanup Protocol estory now available! Through Smashwords.com and most ebook retailers!
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Why do there have to be additional plaques?
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Because we're content-obsessed and we want more things to visit on the maps!
MA Author: Look for my eight arcs under @Witty Librarian!
Hero Cleanup Protocol estory now available! Through Smashwords.com and most ebook retailers!
RP your way-points or thumb tacs as thing to visit!
Fine, as long as the Cape Radio gets one too.
I personally have never heard of the Tanker Tuesday, and I have been here since Sept of '04...
"NO....No clowns" - Positron
50s: Smasha (SS/SD Brute), House Rules (Mind/Thorn Dom), Wind of Mind (Illusion/Storm Controller), Coraxa (Kat/Inv Scrapper), Summer's Dream (Fortunata)
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Why do there have to be additional plaques?
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Ask the devs that, they keep adding them.
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You set no criteria for Tanker Tuesday to meet to deserve a plaque that it has not already met. At what point do you either concede that it qualifies or admit that you are just being oppositional? 
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I will when I get a good argument to the contrary as to why the counterproposals are not good enough, where this is the only acceptable option for a single server event, as long running as it may be.
You've given me no reason to support a permanent marker inside the game over any other celebratory event for the anniversary of this single server, single AT. event. And I've proposed *more* than most - including things that would be visible to those *outside* the game - yet aside from Acemace's listing, those seem to go ignored.
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Ive read your alternate suggestions and appreciated the attempt. However, several of the things you mention have already been done for the third anniversary of Tanker Tuesday, and the rest of the items seem lacking and insufficient. While they were greatly appreciated then, and still are now, many people feel that an increase in recognition is not out of line, much like veteran rewards get better as you keep staying committed to the game. 
Is it the only acceptable option? Perhaps not, but the alternate suggestions so far dont seem sufficient or as fitting to many of us. Although they seem more reasonable to you, we disagree. You have not yet given a good argument to the contrary as to why a plaque is too good. 
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At what point do *you* concede?
[/ QUOTE ] Fair enough question.
Im not just being oppositional, so thats out. 
I will be happy to concede when you can propose realistic criteria for a plaque which Tanker Tuesday has not already met.
Your proposal should take an event into consideration as separate from other things; a comparison is not really valid criteria, although some may serve as a yardstick.
Youll have to stop using inappropriate comparisons in your argument completely. (Events will never equate to groups, even though they both involve people.)
I dont think any of that is unreasonable, do you?
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Or, as Wikked put it:
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Because there are other ways to recognise a SINGLE SERVER event then to enshrine it gamewide.
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As others have pointed out, Tanker Tuesday has not just been limited to the Champion server, even though only the Champion server has managed to consistently host the event.
So, lets try to cut through some of the oppositional BS.
Is your only sticking point that you feel Tanker Tuesday is not being held regularly on enough servers?
If so, how many servers need to participate on a regular basis? And, for how long?
If (an)other server(s) do not consistently continue Tanker Tuesday, are you suggesting that is a failure of the server or an indicator of the worthiness of Champions achievement?
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Fine, as long as the Cape Radio gets one too.
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I agree! I think that the big radio tower in the Rogue Isles is a perfectly appropriate spot for a shout out.
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Why do there have to be additional plaques?
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Ask the devs that, they keep adding them.
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I believe you but I cannot remember the last plaque that was added. I blame whiskey.
Anyone have a list of recent addtions?
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Also it should be on a loading tip.
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Now that's an idea I can get behind. It's still significant recognition, but it stays in the metagame.
We'll always have Paragon.
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I will be happy to concede when you can propose realistic criteria for a plaque which Tanker Tuesday has not already met.
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How about "Part of the game backstory instead of a metagame concept generally isolated to a single server"?
Also, can I advise that you not use questions phrased in the manner of "Have you stopped beating your wife"? It gets irritating to those of us who are observing, after already registering our opinion.
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
Post deleted by Moderator 08
NEW ALLIED FIGHTERS ISSUE #2