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Is LS going to accept these problematic RIP IO's now as you are officially saying it is a pet?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're getting hung up on the word "pet".
When Castle is saying "Pet" here, he doesn't mean "creature that follows you around and does stuff", he means "a summoned entity".
Basically, what he's saying is "we don't want players to be able to increase the power usage rate of summoned entities". It doesn't matter what form that entity takes, be it a pony, a cloud, or an enchanted cucumber.
That is a position that I personally agree with, and fully support (at least when it's done with enhancements).
For me, the big question with this change has been if essentially giving "summoned entities" immunity to Recharge debuffs is a price worth paying for achieving this goal. It's definitely a downside, but as I've said before, I truly don't believe there are any entirely Good solutions at this point. The question then becomes if this proposed change is the "least bad" option (these options include "do nothing"), and I've come to believe that it is, especially since the devs have the *option* of making NPC-summoned entities exempt from this change if they believe it becomes necessary (by creating new versions of those pets).
It also helps that I believe that with the Recharge-inheriting out of the way, it's possible to improve some other oddities with pets and sets.
tl;dr;
I agree with the goal, and I'm ok with this change.
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[ QUOTE ]
But what about exemptions to this fix. Thats what most of us want to know about. We already know its possible for some exemptions because there have been reports that the defender lightning storm still behaves the same as on live as on test yet the controller/corrupter/mastermind version of the power is now uneffected by recharge. I do think at the very least if you are making the powers not take recharge any more and if they arent able to be targeted anyways then maybe you can up the damage or change the recharge itself. I just really hate for lightning storm to become worthless outside of boss/av fights.
[/ QUOTE ]
Powers like Lightning Storm, Voltaic Sentinel and Auto Turret are precisely the powers that were targeted by this fix. Making exemptions for them would defeat the purpose, don't you think?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's kind of amusing that what are arguably the worst player pets in the game (Voltaic Sentinel and Gun Drone) were deliberately nerfed.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But what about exemptions to this fix. Thats what most of us want to know about. We already know its possible for some exemptions because there have been reports that the defender lightning storm still behaves the same as on live as on test yet the controller/corrupter/mastermind version of the power is now uneffected by recharge. I do think at the very least if you are making the powers not take recharge any more and if they arent able to be targeted anyways then maybe you can up the damage or change the recharge itself. I just really hate for lightning storm to become worthless outside of boss/av fights.
[/ QUOTE ]
Powers like Lightning Storm, Voltaic Sentinel and Auto Turret are precisely the powers that were targeted by this fix. Making exemptions for them would defeat the purpose, don't you think?
[/ QUOTE ]
In other words you weren't trying to help those with problems with the Bruiser or Stony getting stuck just tossing rocks. You were targetting everyone else and just happened to fix their problem?
<sigh> Viv says its no longer "all me".
http://wendy-mags.mybrute.com/
[ QUOTE ]
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that would have been so much better, could have saved myself literally hours of going off the deep end trying to protect LS from the pet nerf. Only to find out LS "IS THE PET NERF" lol.
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Honestly, I think I and others had been trying to quietly and with as much compassion and understanding as possible 
explain that very likely Castle may not have consciously been thinking about LS, but while dealing with this other issue it might have effected his decision.
Of course, now we find he did know about it all along.
[/ QUOTE ]
I try not to pretend that they don't know "secrets" of the player base as they generally do.
I generally hope when they are corrected it isn't done at the expense of numerous other powers and sets like in this case, and I hope they take a holistic look at the set they are changing to determine if further buff/nerf is warranted, but I think the trap of falling back on 1-2yrs of datamining after each change might eliminate that possibility.
It is what it is.
Then again, by the sounds of his post they had no idea recharge affected pets until the put the RIP sets in lol. (which I'm sure was just a mis-statement)
So who knows.
edit: I think I'm done on this issue, I'm spent lol. Hope everyone enjoys the changes, I know I won't, but I understand it is for the greater good. What combo's are gaining largely from this so I might partake? bare in mind the lose of improving many MM pets is a lose in most cases.
[ QUOTE ]
Castle,
Is this affecting Controller pets as well? From the other thread it appears everyone else is assuming it does. I am worried about my Fire Imps. As far as I know they have only one attack. If they have another attack, I am not aware of it since it all looks the same. If this does affect Fire Imps, do you plan on giving them another power so they benefit from the cycling as this fix is intended to provide? Or do you believe Fire is still too powerful because of Kinetics?
Do you consider this fix a benefit or nerf to Fire Imps in particular? Do you see DPS going up/down/staying the same for all pets after this change?
As far as Phantasm, I do not see this having any benefit because I have no recharge boosts for him on my Ill/Emp. He just gets Clear Mind sometimes and always gets Fortitude. In his case I specifically took Team Teleport to get him close to mob(either because he started firing early or the knockback from Power Blast knocked them out of ET range)so he would fire off Energy Torrent else he stays backs and uses Power Blast and Decoy until the battle is over. Its an endurance drain I could do without having to maximize DPS because the pet cannot use all his powers effectively.
Thanks for listening.
[/ QUOTE ]
Give them time. In 2 or 3 years they can datamine and find out if there are any problems. They still have 4 or 5 more currencies to develop in the game. Reward control must be maintained. Look how well they fixed Em after they gutted it.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
Castle already stated that the patch note explanation was ONE of the reasons for the change. I'd advise keeping that in mind before jumping to the "outright lie" accusation.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was under the context of Castle's quote in which he explained that LS, VS, and Turret were *PRECISELY* the powers that were targetted by this change. Now it's very possible that was poor word choice on Castle's part, but I took precisely to mean, deffiniton 3 on dictionary.com:
being just that and no other.
Although that's not the only definition, all of them suggest that something that is "precisely the reason" is the primary not the secondary or tertiary reason.
[ QUOTE ]
He also already mentioned that the bug/exploit wasn't even on their radar until recently. Even if it had been long-standing, the devs have never been in a habit of pointing out exploitative behavior before it has been fixed, why would they start now?
[/ QUOTE ]
In general devs don't point out nerfs because they don't want people to exploit them....rather obvious, right? In this situation however, the nature of these pets inheritance of recharge was well known and would inevitably come up in any discussion of these powers in their respective forums. Thus, as an already known....i hesitate to call it a bug...i'll say feature..bringing dev attention to it and explaining this behaviour is not intended would be more likely to make people think twice before taking advantage of it, knowing that it was impermanent. Consider, for example, Hamios that give to hit debuffs also causing to hit buffs. This is a known bug that devs have commented on in the past as being unintended. Although to be fair, Castle says that they were unaware of this feature, which would have made it hard for them to comment on.
[ QUOTE ]
but really don't see how normalizing a power to remove their OP'd nature is a nerf.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't find Lightning Storm to be overpowered at the moment, but that's a different point altogether. Changing something that was a known, if unintended, feature for over two years, to me, qualifies as a nerf. But then, that would depend on what we consider the deffinition of nerf to be.
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But what about exemptions to this fix. Thats what most of us want to know about. We already know its possible for some exemptions because there have been reports that the defender lightning storm still behaves the same as on live as on test yet the controller/corrupter/mastermind version of the power is now uneffected by recharge. I do think at the very least if you are making the powers not take recharge any more and if they arent able to be targeted anyways then maybe you can up the damage or change the recharge itself. I just really hate for lightning storm to become worthless outside of boss/av fights.
[/ QUOTE ]
Powers like Lightning Storm, Voltaic Sentinel and Auto Turret are precisely the powers that were targeted by this fix. Making exemptions for them would defeat the purpose, don't you think?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, that's it I guess. Hopefully at some point LS can receive some sort of buff (I think endurance cost is the main problem), but until then no point in worrying about it.
It's gonna take some time and respecs to gut my Illusion/Storm character of IOs, but there are other toons to play. This game is still very fun for me, just not the Storm Summoning set any longer.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is LS going to accept these problematic RIP IO's now as you are officially saying it is a pet?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're getting hung up on the word "pet".
When Castle is saying "Pet" here, he doesn't mean "creature that follows you around and does stuff", he means "a summoned entity".
Basically, what he's saying is "we don't want players to be able to increase the power usage rate of summoned entities". It doesn't matter what form that entity takes, be it a pony, a cloud, or an enchanted cucumber.
That is a position that I personally agree with, and fully support (at least when it's done with enhancements).
For me, the big question with this change has been if essentially giving "summoned entities" immunity to Recharge debuffs is a price worth paying for achieving this goal. It's definitely a downside, but as I've said before, I truly don't believe there are any entirely Good solutions at this point. The question then becomes if this proposed change is the "least bad" option (these options include "do nothing"), and I've come to believe that it is, especially since the devs have the *option* of making NPC-summoned entities exempt from this change if they believe it becomes necessary (by creating new versions of those pets).
It also helps that I believe that with the Recharge-inheriting out of the way, it's possible to improve some other oddities with pets and sets.
tl;dr;
I agree with the goal, and I'm ok with this change.
[/ QUOTE ]
gah, I just wanna move on and respec everything out of my fire/storm already!
If you read the rest of my post I'm basically asking him to turn LS into a real pet because right now it is an end of mission only power due to abysmal numbers if it doesn't shoot most of it's load.
I've extrapolated from his comments regarding domination and new powers like SoW/OwtS that "end of mission" or "too good to use" (which LS certainly isn't, more too crappy to use heh) powers is something he is striving to move away from.
Unfortunately this change puts LS square into that position (VS has mobility and also doesn't suck 1/3 of your end bar).
So rather than waste everyone's time with years of datamining followed by a trivial buff, I'm asking him to think about solutions right now. which is also why I ask him how he sees effectively using LS outside of "boss fights" and what his vision for storm is in tough encounters such as AV's now that it isn't bringing enough damage to offset the lack of other buffs/debuffs/heals (ie -dam, -regen, shields, stuff like that).
As I mentioned in another thread a perma hasten storm can now just barely summon enough damage to equal the -regen powers that its brethren can toss out and at a cost of 7x as much endurance (and assumes only the AV is left, or that everything is within 5ft). They also have other useful powers that tend to overshadow steamy mist. I realize AV's aren't everything, but they are a consideration, just like spawn to spawn play is which I also ask about.
Basically what is storms roll now according to Castle? (non Castle's need not answer as it is guesswork, just like my opinion)
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Powers like Lightning Storm, Voltaic Sentinel and Auto Turret are precisely the powers that were targeted by this fix. Making exemptions for them would defeat the purpose, don't you think?
[/ QUOTE ]
Castle, if this is true, then the patch note is an outright lie. The patch note claims:
[ QUOTE ]
This change was made to allow pets to correctly cycle through their attacks instead of getting locked on using the same attack over and over and neglecting to use other available powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
If this change was instead to correct LS, VS, and the turret becoming too powerful, it would have been much better if you had just come out and said so. It would also have been nice if we had been notified that this was a bug and that a fix would be implemented when it could. Instead we were lead to believe that this was intended behaviour and slotted accordingly.
I am extremely unhappy with the change. But appreciate your forthrightness. LS, VS, and the Turret became too powerful and now been nerfed. This happens to fix some other pet's AIs as well.
I feel as if we were intentionally mislead by the patch notes inorder to stealth in a nerf.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not an outright lie. The person who wrote the patch note wasn't aware of all the things this was intended to fix. That's one of the main reasons I'm having this discussion: Full disclosure.
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
But what about exemptions to this fix. Thats what most of us want to know about. We already know its possible for some exemptions because there have been reports that the defender lightning storm still behaves the same as on live as on test yet the controller/corrupter/mastermind version of the power is now uneffected by recharge. I do think at the very least if you are making the powers not take recharge any more and if they arent able to be targeted anyways then maybe you can up the damage or change the recharge itself. I just really hate for lightning storm to become worthless outside of boss/av fights.
[/ QUOTE ]
Powers like Lightning Storm, Voltaic Sentinel and Auto Turret are precisely the powers that were targeted by this fix. Making exemptions for them would defeat the purpose, don't you think?
[/ QUOTE ]
In other words you weren't trying to help those with problems with the Bruiser or Stony getting stuck just tossing rocks. You were targetting everyone else and just happened to fix their problem?
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, what Castle is saying is that there was already a problem on the table - recharge being passed to pets unintentionally - when a separate problem came along that happened to propose a solution that also addressed the pet recharge problem.
Its often the case that problem X has a solution A that doesn't appear to be worth the effort, then another problem Y comes along that also has solution A, and suddenly solution A is killing two birds with one stone and becomes much more attractive to perform.
Just a couple months ago I had a customer ask if they should load a particular patch to one of their systems. My answer was nope. Then last month they ran into a problem, and I recommended they load the very same patch. They asked me why I didn't recommend the patch earlier, and the answer was simple: that patch has side effects that made it not worth it back then, but with the appearance of the new problem (which was not directly mentioned in the patch, but turns out to be resolved by it) the patch now became worth it, in spite of those side effects (which I subsequently had to resolve after patching).
It would be easy to characterize decision-making like this as either confused or inconsistent, but its actually precisely what happens with any complex system when proper risk analysis is performed. These decisions are almost never simple binary decisions, and they are almost always subject to modification when new information changes the equation.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
[ QUOTE ]
Now, you combine the two things...and suddenly, pet powers which were never meant to have recharge be altered (Lightning Storm is a great example here) are firing off much faster than intended. For a long time, we didn't notice,
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, here we go again with an aspect of the game roundly known, indeed lauded in the Forums, and suddenly "ZOMG This was never intended!" from the Devs.
The fact that Lightning Storm inherited Hasten and fired faster has been discussed and encouraged for as long as I can remember since I started in March, 2005.
So why not leave it alone?
Several days after the deed is done, it is NOW explicitly stated that "We're shocked, shocked to find Lightning Storm is firing faster! WE JUST NEVER NOTICED BEFORE! This was never intended!" and the discussion is now over, Game, Set, Match.
I appreciate the thread, but then again, here is the criteria for commentary, in essence:
"Comment all you want, it won't change our minds an iota, we COULD exempt it but we won't, because as it turns out, we never wanted Lightning Storm to be other than the thud you are now left with. For a long time, we didn't notice..."
EDIT: Quoting Strong Bad by saying "Holy [censored]" a couple of times is overkill in a rant. And a rant, alas, it pretty much is. So I took it out.
As someone else has said, I wish this discussion could have been had back when it might have had an effect on the outcome.
*Heavy sigh*
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
Please update the patch notes from this:
[ QUOTE ]
Pet Powers Change:
o Recharge times on pet attack powers will no longer be affected by any outside source. This includes buffs and debuffs. What this means is that pets can no longer have the recharge time on their powers increased by player buffs (like Speed Boost) or their recharge time decreased by player or NPC debuffs. This change was made to allow pets to correctly cycle through their attacks instead of getting locked on using the same attack over and over and neglecting to use other available powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
to this:
[ QUOTE ]
Pet Powers Change:
o Recharge times on pet attack powers will no longer be affected by any outside source. This includes buffs and debuffs. What this means is that pets can no longer have the recharge time on their powers increased by player buffs (like Speed Boost) or their recharge time decreased by player or NPC debuffs. This change was made to limit the effectiveness of pets to match our original design; a bug was allowing nearly all pets to exceed intended levels of damage and control. This fix also allows pets with multiple powers to correctly cycle through their attacks instead of getting locked into using a single power, and allows Recharge Intensive Pet IO sets to have the intended effects.
[/ QUOTE ]
A little honest & open communication goes a long way... too bad this discussion with the community didn't start months ago when the RIP set bugs were reported. Most of us can accept a clarification of design intent, as long as it happens when you discover a problem and not after even zombies can tentatively poke at the code changes and realize the truth.
I have issue with the fact that the defender LS is not affected on test currently, possibly an oversight.
I also have a question regarding the purple pet set (soulbound allegiance) which was designed specifically to increase the pet's rate of fire. Now that it no longer does this, will we see a reworking of said said at a minimum... one that makes it worthy of being a purple set?
I take issue in the fact that it was LS, VS, GT that were the targets and MM's are going to pay heavily for such a broad and sweeping change. Could you not put this issue off until you have time to re-think it some? You have in the past thought up ways around issues when given time which you currently didn't think were possible (the new changes to Phase come to mind).
Wassabi Grav/Kin 50 (before badges/accolades were in game) Pinnacle
Miss Command Bots/Traps 50 Justice
*others left off due to space issues
[ QUOTE ]
Just a couple months ago I had a customer ask if they should load a particular patch to one of their systems. My answer was nope. Then last month they ran into a problem, and I recommended they load the very same patch. They asked me why I didn't recommend the patch earlier, and the answer was simple: that patch has side effects that made it not worth it back then, but with the appearance of the new problem (which was not directly mentioned in the patch, but turns out to be resolved by it) the patch now became worth it, in spite of those side effects (which I subsequently had to resolve after patching).
It would be easy to characterize decision-making like this as either confused or inconsistent, but its actually precisely what happens with any complex system when proper risk analysis is performed. These decisions are almost never simple binary decisions, and they are almost always subject to modification when new information changes the equation.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, in that case, the user had a bit more control over the decision. This is what I find increasingly frustrating. I'm not sold that the problems are worse than the fix.
Engineering projects, particularly the kind that involve computers, often require trade-offs, and different ways of looking at the problem (the AI in the context of MMOs discussion is a good example of that). Sometimes the solution is to outright defer the solution.
We need to keep in mind this is a game, and ultimately, players enjoyment (and continued subscriptions) are the goal.
--
Mu
[ QUOTE ]
I also have a question regarding the purple pet set (soulbound allegiance) which was designed specifically to increase the pet's rate of fire. Now that it no longer does this, will we see a reworking of said said at a minimum... one that makes it worthy of being a purple set?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's too bad you can't have a Set Bonus or Unique IO for that set that essentially just says "ignore all other recharge changes to pets, but allow this one".
Maybe a damage bonus to the pets would be a reasonable substitute.
<QR>
Since it seems as though this change is indeed targeted at all pets including those that inherited buffs from the caster, and people have already pointed out potential problems this change has caused or didn't fix (testing on Fly Trap and the ninjas shows they're still a bit wonky, and people have shown how this will be a very negative impact on their Stormies and Warshades for example), is there a chance that the pets with only one or two attacks will receive some sort of a buff as compensation for this change? Specifically I'm looking at the pets you claimed as one of the reasons for this change. You already greatly improved the effectiveness of Gun Drone by making it mobile (although it's still not great), could the same be done to Lightning Storm? And perhaps a global (albeit small) pet damage buff or recharge lowering?
As a poster above pointed out, where does this leave Soulbound Allegiance? As I understand it that is the only pet set whose recharge portions also boosted the pet's recharges - now that pets don't benefit from slotted or buffed recharge, that set has basically become two very expensive +HP bonuses for my MM.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
[ QUOTE ]
Not an outright lie. The person who wrote the patch note wasn't aware of all the things this was intended to fix. That's one of the main reasons I'm having this discussion: Full disclosure.
[/ QUOTE ]
The open discussion is greatly appreciated.
Will this change be carried over to Defender LS as well, then? (I assume the answer is yes, unless the overpowered nature is primarily a concern on controllers)
At the moment I'm still having trouble understanding the chain of events that lead to the feeling that this change was necessary. And some of what I think I understand may be completely wrong. But as I understand it at the moment:
This change was primarily to prevent LS, VS, and Turrets from firing faster than intended (although obviously the change has lots of other benefits as well). As someone else has commented VS and Turrets I don't think have ever been considered especially overpowered, and the advice is most often to skip them. So I assume as well, that the focus was on Lightning Storm?
But I know at least LS, and so I assume the other powers were capable of getting massive recharge bonuses before Recharge Intensive Pet sets, and LS, at least to the best of my knowledge, never accepted any Pet sets. So I guess I'm confused as to how the Recharge Intensive Pet Sets instigated this change to LS. Was it looking at other powers getting massive recharge, that alerted you to the fact that there were some that already were? Because RIP sets certainly didn't create the problem from where I'm sitting. So, at least for LS, if it wasn't a problem before RIP, it wasn't going to be a problem after RIP.
I'm just trying to get a better grasp on the thought process that lead up to this decision. I know there isn't a simple answer, as this was not a single threaded decision process.
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But what about exemptions to this fix. Thats what most of us want to know about. We already know its possible for some exemptions because there have been reports that the defender lightning storm still behaves the same as on live as on test yet the controller/corrupter/mastermind version of the power is now uneffected by recharge. I do think at the very least if you are making the powers not take recharge any more and if they arent able to be targeted anyways then maybe you can up the damage or change the recharge itself. I just really hate for lightning storm to become worthless outside of boss/av fights.
[/ QUOTE ]
Powers like Lightning Storm, Voltaic Sentinel and Auto Turret are precisely the powers that were targeted by this fix. Making exemptions for them would defeat the purpose, don't you think?
[/ QUOTE ]
It is a bit hard to imagine VS and Auto Turret being too powerful. I started an Ele/Rad Corruptor specifically because I want to improve VS (since VS feels weak in comparison to Bitter Ice Blast and Cosmic Burst).
I even tried to customize my Necro/Storm to focus on range blast. Between my blast and grave knight's, I find that gaming experience quite enjoyable. But I guess "Necro" was never intended to be "ranged". It is still hard to imagine my Necro/Storm is overpowering considering I have like no aoe (and no, I don't want to babysit zombies).
I see the reason behind fixing it. I just feel a lot of builds are going to be nerfed. This patch is basically nerfing things that weren't supposed to attack faster. The real AI problem fix is probably only like 5% of all the pets. I even don't have a problem with Stone pet using rock at range because that rock actually does decent dmg. The only people that are happy are Thug fans.
Part of the reason I find IOing addictive is that I can customize and improve certain powers that I couldn't before. I feel it is a bit unfair that many other ATs (that don't rely on pets as much) still enjoy so much from global recharge while MM and Troller's pets can't benefit from it. IOing a MM is gonna be quite boring to be honest...
PS: And how come I have a feeling that procs in Pets were not supposed to happen?? Maybe that's next?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
[ QUOTE ]
Please update the patch notes to this:
[ QUOTE ]
Pet Powers Change:
o Recharge times on pet attack powers will no longer be affected by any outside source. This includes buffs and debuffs. What this means is that pets can no longer have the recharge time on their powers increased by player buffs (like Speed Boost) or their recharge time decreased by player or NPC debuffs. This change was made to limit the effectiveness of pets to match our original design; a bug was allowing nearly all pets to exceed intended levels of damage and control. This fix also allows pets with multiple powers to correctly cycle through their attacks instead of getting locked into using a single power, and allows Recharge Intensive Pet IO sets to have the intended effects.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Very nice. Agreed. A huge part of the confusion is the difference in the existing patch notes vs "the rest of the story".
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
[ QUOTE ]
Not an outright lie. The person who wrote the patch note wasn't aware of all the things this was intended to fix. That's one of the main reasons I'm having this discussion: Full disclosure.
[/ QUOTE ]
You guys really need to add a "See Castle" (or whomever) practice to the Patch Notes for particularly dicey issues. I realize that the Patch Notes are essentially out of context (due to the Patch Note process) comments from game designers and not prepared statements from PR. But when the devs repeatedly make unintentionally misleading statements through this process, there are bound to be some who think that those statements are deliberate obfuscation and begin to mistrust dev statements in general.
Especially EvilRyu. I'm sure his level of suspicion towards the devs is such that he curses you every time his car keys go missing.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But what about exemptions to this fix. Thats what most of us want to know about. We already know its possible for some exemptions because there have been reports that the defender lightning storm still behaves the same as on live as on test yet the controller/corrupter/mastermind version of the power is now uneffected by recharge. I do think at the very least if you are making the powers not take recharge any more and if they arent able to be targeted anyways then maybe you can up the damage or change the recharge itself. I just really hate for lightning storm to become worthless outside of boss/av fights.
[/ QUOTE ]
Powers like Lightning Storm, Voltaic Sentinel and Auto Turret are precisely the powers that were targeted by this fix. Making exemptions for them would defeat the purpose, don't you think?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well at least I know where you guys stand on the issue.
But I still ask that you reconsider. I was hardly breaking pve with a slotting up lightning storm, and the fact that lstorm is stationary in pvp should be enough of a setback.
Voltaic Sentinal is undirectable too and the set's replacement for a tier 3 blast (which you can make fire faster with recharge slotting). Auto Turret I can't speak for.
But if you won't do that, then could you at least make Lightning Storm mobile? And maybe make voltaic sentinal do more damage or cut the recharge down to simulate slotting.
<qr>
its Invention origin enhancement diversification IO'ED lol 
I'll take the disease over the medicine please. Its like curing aids with cancer.
Castle, I really hate that this change is happening, but I pretty much understand it.
This doesn't even directly affect any of my characters that much (no MMs, no pet-ful Controllers). I know it's going to affect lots of characters I play with, though, and I both feel bad for their players and for the lost benefit I'll experience when playing along side them.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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its Invention origin enhancement diversification IO'ED lol
I'll take the disease over the medicine please. Its like curing aids with cancer.
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I referred to this as the GPN, the Global Pet Nerf myself in one of the locked threads.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Powers like Lightning Storm, Voltaic Sentinel and Auto Turret are precisely the powers that were targeted by this fix. Making exemptions for them would defeat the purpose, don't you think?
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Castle, if this is true, then the patch note is an outright lie. The patch note claims:
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This change was made to allow pets to correctly cycle through their attacks instead of getting locked on using the same attack over and over and neglecting to use other available powers.
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If this change was instead to correct LS, VS, and the turret becoming too powerful, it would have been much better if you had just come out and said so. It would also have been nice if we had been notified that this was a bug and that a fix would be implemented when it could. Instead we were lead to believe that this was intended behaviour and slotted accordingly.
I am extremely unhappy with the change. But appreciate your forthrightness. LS, VS, and the Turret became too powerful and now been nerfed. This happens to fix some other pet's AIs as well.
I feel as if we were intentionally mislead by the patch notes inorder to stealth in a nerf.
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Castle already stated that the patch note explanation was ONE of the reasons for the change. I'd advise keeping that in mind before jumping to the "outright lie" accusation. He also already mentioned that the bug/exploit wasn't even on their radar until recently. Even if it had been long-standing, the devs have never been in a habit of pointing out exploitative behavior before it has been fixed, why would they start now?
Granted, I would love to see a slight buff to LS, VS and the Turret to offset their unbuffability (new word!), but really don't see how normalizing a power to remove their OP'd nature is a nerf.