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This entire topic seems to have done little but stir up folks. It appears to have been nothing more than a Fait Accompli posting without any stated or obvious intention to alter course despite well stated and on-point feedback offered by the community.
Not the first time. Probably won't be the last. You would think some of us veterans of this community would learn. CoH won't be the only non-WoW clone in town forever. Then they will learn....
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....... d00m?
wow. just wow.
Political correctness is a stench in the nose of God. Yes, your God(s) also.
Well, this topic cleared things up for me. The patch notes made no sense to me, "external sources" didn't mean enhancements in my head.
I don't understand the point of view of the people that say all this was a loophole waiting to be closed. They put in the "show detailed info here" so we could all see what was happening. Put recharge in, time for recharge goes down.
Right now, on live, on my /storm mm. The detailed info says for lightning: Recharge time 2.05s (4.00s). It is clearly NOT firing every 2 seconds.
LS takes kb, end mod, and ranged dmg, how could we be expected to use those sets, and NOT get recharge?
I'm not even sure how to proceed right now, I have over the last few months bought a lot of -recharge IO's for my pets.
This was a huge change with an oddly worded tiny blurb in the patch notes. Took me 15 minutes to find this thread, was wonderin what was goin on with my LS.
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I don't understand the point of view of the people that say all this was a loophole waiting to be closed. They put in the "show detailed info here" so we could all see what was happening. Put recharge in, time for recharge goes down.
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The thing is, the detailed info was usually wrong (and still is).
Putting a regular Recharge enhancement into a pet did *not* improve the Recharge of powers used by the summoned entity (exception: Gun Drone), but the detailed info text still said that it did. That was (and still is) a bug with the detailed info texts.
What *did* improve the Recharge of powers used by summoned entities was *set* enhancements *containing* Recharge.
That behavior was not intended, and only coincidentally made the bugged detailed info texts correct in those cases.
edit:
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LS takes kb, end mod, and ranged dmg, how could we be expected to use those sets, and NOT get recharge?
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Oh, Recharge will still make Lightning Storm recharge faster, it's just the Lightning Storm's Lightning attack that won't have its firing rate improved anymore.
Well, I vote they fix the detailed info before "fixing" any more powers. How are we supposed to make decisions on slotting if the only easily obtainable information is lying to us?
I understand that it was *set* enhancements containing recharge. That was my point with LS. You would have to go out of your way to frankenslot ranged dmg, kb, and end mod IO's to NOT get recharge. Once you put a double or triple with recharge in, and see the lightning recharge go down, who wouldn't try for more? The numbers don't turn red if you are "exploiting a loophole". It appears to the casual user that it is the intended effect.
I can't imagine they view these pets as overpowered. So, it seems to me more like a punishment for cheating. Even though they never told us not to do it. They surely couldn't have been trying to fix power cycling on lightning storm. It seems to only have 1. And, if they accidentally skipped the defender version, well, they could accidentally skip whatever they want then, apparently.
I'm sure I'll get over it, but, it was really cool with 2 storms goin, just blasting stuff. And, I have 2 or 3 other mm's that need some serious rethinking.
Ok so with out reading threw this hole thead. I got some things but I still have a few questions. I've never used Pet IOs. Now if they have taken out the recharge function of the IO set do they plan on replacing it with another? If not whats the point of having it on. Also with out doing so it makes the IO sets no more usefull then say HOs or SOs. So why even offer the IO sets in the first place.
I Say this because I'm conserned about my Earth Pet and my Dark servent Pet. I'm close to dinging 50 on them. Which is when I start IOing. But I'm wondering if its even worth getting the IOs. I think adding a + movment or a + HP to the Pet IOs sets would be nice if they can't get the + recharge.
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Ok so with out reading threw this hole thead. I got some things but I still have a few questions. I've never used Pet IOs. Now if they have taken out the recharge function of the IO set do they plan on replacing it with another?
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Probably not. The recharge hasn't been "taken out" so to speak. The recharge will still affect the recharge of the summon pet power. What it will not do is increase the rate of attack of said summoned pet.
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
Basically, the recharge still does what it's intended to do - make the power itself recharge faster.
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
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I Say this because I'm conserned about my Earth Pet and my Dark servent Pet.
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Your Dark Servant Pet will recharge more often. YOU will have YOUR power to summon your Dark Servant Pet recharge more often. That is the way it has always been and it is always the way it has been intended for it to be. If you are a Mastermind, Recharge is quite helpful since MM Dark Servant takes longer to recharge than the Corruptor or Defender version, but even they will be able to have their Dark Servant up more often.
Your Earth Pet will also recharge more often, but since it is an effectively infinite duration anyway, that doesn't matter unless you exit a mission and reenter it really quickly, or if your Stoney gets killed before it recharges. In that case, if you slot Recharge in the power, it will be ready faster, and thus be more useful to you.
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Well, I vote they fix the detailed info before "fixing" any more powers. How are we supposed to make decisions on slotting if the only easily obtainable information is lying to us?
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The problem is that the information being given is TRUE. The pet's recharge IS being increased. It's just, none of the pet's powers use this recharge.
The most logical solution to this inconsistency is simply to not report the value. It doesn't matter what it is, its effect will always be zero. So for any pet, don't have a place for recharge. Of course, that would require altering the code that displays the stats of a critter to differentiate if it is a pet or not. If you manage to distinguish that, then you might as well just report the value as zero.
Either way, you're talking about further complicating the Attributes interface. And remember this is why the devs didn't want to report these values at all. If you don't UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY MEAN, the Attributes are useless to you.
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Ok so with out reading threw this hole thead. I got some things but I still have a few questions. I've never used Pet IOs. Now if they have taken out the recharge function of the IO set do they plan on replacing it with another? If not whats the point of having it on. Also with out doing so it makes the IO sets no more usefull then say HOs or SOs. So why even offer the IO sets in the first place.
I Say this because I'm conserned about my Earth Pet and my Dark servent Pet. I'm close to dinging 50 on them. Which is when I start IOing. But I'm wondering if its even worth getting the IOs. I think adding a + movment or a + HP to the Pet IOs sets would be nice if they can't get the + recharge.
[/ QUOTE ]Pet sets themselves have never really been worth it to me. I just use the buff procs in certain sets. If the set bonuses didnt suck [censored] this would be a different story. Personally I say go with 3 acc/dam HO/SHO 2 buff resistance procs and chance for build up proc and you are good to go. If you got endurance issues change out one of the acc/dam HO/SHO for a damage/End Purple pet set IO.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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I Say this because I'm conserned about my Earth Pet and my Dark servent Pet.
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Your Dark Servant Pet will recharge more often. YOU will have YOUR power to summon your Dark Servant Pet recharge more often. That is the way it has always been and it is always the way it has been intended for it to be. If you are a Mastermind, Recharge is quite helpful since MM Dark Servant takes longer to recharge than the Corruptor or Defender version, but even they will be able to have their Dark Servant up more often.
Your Earth Pet will also recharge more often, but since it is an effectively infinite duration anyway, that doesn't matter unless you exit a mission and reenter it really quickly, or if your Stoney gets killed before it recharges. In that case, if you slot Recharge in the power, it will be ready faster, and thus be more useful to you.
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Actually what holds true for Stoney also holds true for defender and corrupter DS since it has a 240 second duration and a 240 second recharge. So...technically there will be 3 seconds without DS from the cast time, but DS is basically perma out of the box (at least according to red tomax) so there is no reason to slot recharge in DS (masterminds excluded) or stoney unless they're dying a lot.
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
Ok thank for the info guys. I'm at my work computer so I can't look it up. Can AS and DS be sloted wtih Taunt and if so is it very effective?
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technically there will be 3 seconds without DS from the cast time, but DS is basically perma out of the box (at least according to red tomax) so there is no reason to slot recharge in DS (masterminds excluded) or stoney unless they're dying a lot.
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Voltaic Sentinel is the same way, and it can't even be killed. So hopefully this is something that will be looked at. Sparky and Fluffy were both made so they could not stack, so perhaps the ability to slot Recharge should be removed from them, and the long duration pets as well. (Henchmen MMs already have had the ability to slot Recharge removed)
The MM version of DS or any VS that isn't perma would be left as current, of course.
So I'm watching the AI of my helper EB in a MA mish and he gets stuck standing around just like helpers in any old bank mayhem before i14.
Only now my lightning storm is slow and my MM bots can't be +rchg by the FF proc that's been slotted in them. Is there any plus side benefit to this change?
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So I'm watching the AI of my helper EB in a MA mish and he gets stuck standing around just like helpers in any old bank mayhem before i14.
Only now my lightning storm is slow and my MM bots can't be +rchg by the FF proc that's been slotted in them. Is there any plus side benefit to this change?
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And don't forget the fun of not being able to have them buffed by Accelerate Metabolism or Speed Boost either...
my Bruiser goes into melee w/out having to force him and Hand Clap does knockdown
I'm happy as far my Thugs/Pain is concerned, still have to play my Necro/Poison.
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So I'm watching the AI of my helper EB in a MA mish and he gets stuck standing around just like helpers in any old bank mayhem before i14.
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Is it a melee helper? Because I believe there is a problem with the range of melee powers, and what the AI thinks the range of the melee power is that can cause allies to just stand around.
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
Been doing my testing with this. Ninjas are still borked. Wont go to melee unless I put them there or the critter comes to them. Jounin will still sit there sometimes waiting on soaring dragon to recharge or golden dragonfly to recharge. Its like they either want their attack to be soaring dragon, soaring dragon, soaring dragon, or golden dragonfly, golden dragonfly, golden dragonfly. Its just weird how they just completely ignore all other attacks they have that are recharged. Personally I just wish they could have given us the ability to select or deselect certain attacks that way at least I wouldnt have to worry about making the go into melee even if they are still going to spam one attack over and over.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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I would really like to see pet specific IO's i.e. MM Thugs- Bruiser that you slot all six IO's and it boasts his powers not just damage and accuracy but knockback and disorient also. The same would go for other mm pets and dom/controller Arachnos soldier pets also and patron pets.
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bolded part - NO